The Helminth Poll

[trigon360]

This is a google form to a poll to survey what abilities other players would use.

https://forms.gle/VqFgUSaznN25QCXq8

[Xaero]

What if I'm going to put 6 different abilities on my Umbra?

[Kaiune]

I dont see any of these being used much over subsumed skills. The pet one if it revives a dead pet kinda like Khora's 3 could be useful to keep up Kavat buffs. Empower and mobility may have some uses depending on the values it gives. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I love the idea of Marked for Death, and Expedite Suffering for Ash. But Marked for Death is basically just replacing Blade Storm by using it with Fatal Teleport, and Expedite Suffering seems like it was made for Ash himself. But neither those, nor even Roar, will be able to compete with a couple of the augmented abilities we'll have access to in Helminth for Ash.

[Kaggelos]

I did the poll, but i tried to view other participant's responses and the chart look all weird, names and abilities and bars are all over the place

Never mind, solved it ^^

[sunderthefirmament]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I love the idea of Marked for Death, and Expedite Suffering for Ash. But Marked for Death is basically just replacing Blade Storm by using it with Fatal Teleport, and Expedite Suffering seems like it was made for Ash himself. But neither those, nor even Roar, will be able to compete with a couple of the augmented abilities we'll have access to in Helminth for Ash.

It depends on how Marked for Death works in game.  On paper, it looks fantastic.  But how much damage is spread and over how big of an area will certainly affect its popularity and viability, to say nothing of its casting speed.

 

I also worry that if it's too costly or slow to cast and react to, your "mark" will just get used up by any rando with a poorly modded amprex.

 

It's the Helminth ability that has me most intrigued, by far.  But we'll see how effective it actually ends up being.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

17 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It depends on how Marked for Death works in game.  On paper, it looks fantastic.  But how much damage is spread and over how big of an area will certainly affect its popularity and viability, to say nothing of its casting speed.

 

I also worry that if it's too costly or slow to cast and react to, your "mark" will just get used up by any rando with a poorly modded amprex.

 

It's the Helminth ability that has me most intrigued, by far.  But we'll see how effective it actually ends up being.

Unless it's the whole map, or has a damage multiplier on it, even with Fatal Teleport it can't beat Savage Silence or Radial Blind giving even bigger bonus to his Teleport AND Blade Storm. 

I am looking forward to learning more though. 

[sunderthefirmament]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Unless it's the whole map, or has a damage multiplier on it, even with Fatal Teleport it can't beat Savage Silence or Radial Blind giving even bigger bonus to his Teleport AND Blade Storm. 

I am looking forward to learning more though. 

Thanks for this post.  It caused me to look up Bladestorm's functionality with finishers and Savage Silence.  Silence is such a clunky ability to use, though, so I'm not convinced I'll bring it along.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

21 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Thanks for this post.  It caused me to look up Bladestorm's functionality with finishers and Savage Silence.  Silence is such a clunky ability to use, though, so I'm not convinced I'll bring it along.

No problem. The beauty of the system is... well, at least an illusion of build diversity. So we are encouraged to be more unique. Hehe

Now, my question is whether Fatal Teleport buff stacks with Savage Silence buff or not. Lol

[CopperBezel]

Going through the full list was fun. There are several frames I still just have zero experience playing with, so my best guess answers were supplemented with checking the wiki a lot for things like what Banshee builds for and what Nidus has that's replaceable. It's been fun, though, finding good synergies for abilities and nonobvious advantages they'd give particular frames. I did have to give up the conceit and choose Ensnare for Khora, because I couldn't in good conscience pretend it was possible to improve on perfection.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

5 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It depends on how Marked for Death works in game.  On paper, it looks fantastic.  But how much damage is spread and over how big of an area will certainly affect its popularity and viability, to say nothing of its casting speed.

I also worry that if it's too costly or slow to cast and react to, your "mark" will just get used up by any rando with a poorly modded amprex.

It's the Helminth ability that has me most intrigued, by far.  But we'll see how effective it actually ends up being.

Marked for Death was leaked on reddit. It has a base range of 10m and is a 1 hand cast. The guy using it used it with a sniper rifle. He zoomed in, cast it and then shot the enemy affected. It killed all the enemies around the original target with a single shot. It doesn't work with Fatal Teleport because the initial hit of FT (before the assassination animation) has no damage and MfD only works on the next damage the enemy takes.

This ability seems more suited for Limbo as his banish stops the enemy from getting damaged accidentally by other players so the MfD effect won't get wasted. The AoE also goes through the rift. You can also stack Rift Torrent for that 1 single hit for MfD and nuke the whole room.

Here's the link 

 

[selig_fay]

4 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Here's the link 

Datamines are prohibited on this forum. If I'm not mistaken. Perhaps you should be careful.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I'm genuinely surprised at how often I wanted Breach Surge on the other frames.

I know the poll is just the one you're most likely to put on, not one for every ability you want to try (I'm thinking of things like Grendel's Nourish on frames for Corpus killing), but out of the available abilities I'm just surprised that the mechanics for Breach Surge seemed to be what I'd find most useful on so many frames.

Take Ash for example; while people have pointed out that the Marked For Death function is actually powerful if done right, imagine being able to radial blind them all first with Breach Surge and then the high damage you deal with his 4 making each tick of Bleed have a chance to spark damage motes to other enemies, with the guaranteed mote on the death of the target. The AoE clear would be amazing, even if new enemies were constantly spawning.

The same can be said about the fast-ticking abilities like Saryn's 1, or abilities with fast ticks and already have damage spreading from single-shot weapons like Zephyr's 4. And I 100% want to test this out with Garuda's 4 as well...

[CopperBezel]

Yep. I chose it for a number of frames on the poll as well, and I guess people have tested Garuda + Wisp and found that it creates a lovely damage loop of insanity. It synergizes well with frames that don't have anything similar, it synergizes well with abilities that are similar to itself, and it's a very good ability to begin with, basically a lateral move in the same vein from Molecular Prime, so there are lots of good options here. And while I think the ideal Wisp build is all about Strength for her Reservoirs, frames with a lot of range or a lot of efficiency get different benefits out of Breach Surge than she does.

Marked for Death is definitely going on my Mag, though, damn. = o

[Colyeses]

Perspicacity could be very useful on Ivara for solo spy missions. Saves some time.

[CopperBezel]

Do people use Ivara for spies? Nova and Wukong can pass through laser grids and sensors just as easily, and I can't imagine using Prowl for its invisibility considering how slow it is. Sleep arrow is great but it can't be that much better than just shooting people, and Ivara doesn't have any built in AoE for cameras like Nova or mobility like Wukong. What's the strategy there?

[sunderthefirmament]

12 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Do people use Ivara for spies? Nova and Wukong can pass through laser grids and sensors just as easily, and I can't imagine using Prowl for its invisibility considering how slow it is. Sleep arrow is great but it can't be that much better than just shooting people, and Ivara doesn't have any built in AoE for cameras like Nova or mobility like Wukong. What's the strategy there?

Of course people use Ivara for spies.  She has the Infiltrate mod, which puts all spy missions (except perhaps Lua and Uranus) on easy mode.  Wukong or Loki are certainly faster than Ivara, but no one is as safe.  The strategy is to press 3, hack the initial panel, then work through the spy vault without any chance of detection or error.

 

And yeah, she's not the fastest.  But I swap to Operator mode and use void dash to cover that particular weakness.  I could see speed being an issue if you're farming spy on repeat, but as it stands I usually only find myself in a spy mission if it's the sortie, and then I'd really rather not fail.

[CopperBezel]

Oof. That just sounds so slow. = o Gotcha, though.

[selig_fay]

3 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Wukong or Loki are certainly faster than Ivara, but no one is as safe

Limbo and pet invisibility.

[sunderthefirmament]

12 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Limbo and pet invisibility.

Relying on a pet for stealth?  It couldn't be me.  Shade is famously unreliable (and frequently glitched), and I'd rather not use a companion for stealth.  They tend to be too aggressive.  But if you've had success with it, cool.

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Oof. That just sounds so slow. = o Gotcha, though.

Not so much when you build for Strength, since the augment scales with it. If you combine that with the fact that she can go normal speed (which is then multiplied by the augment) on her created ziplines you can actually launch her across the Plains or the Vallis at silly speeds.

[CopperBezel]

Oh, interesting. I knew about the ziplines, but had no idea the speed boost scaled with strength.

[TheLexiConArtist]

17 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Of course people use Ivara for spies.  She has the Infiltrate mod, which puts all spy missions (except perhaps Lua and Uranus) on easy mode.  Wukong or Loki are certainly faster than Ivara, but no one is as safe.  The strategy is to press 3, hack the initial panel, then work through the spy vault without any chance of detection or error.

Infiltrate is garbage and an insult. In the time you fat-roll around the vault, anyone else just went around the barriers anyway.

But if you really need to go through barriers, it's not this:

13 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Limbo and pet invisibility.

It's this.

 

 

You hack to start a spy. You're past any sort of vulnerable space in 15 seconds, especially if you're able to walk through barriers. Heck, you can sub in Nova if you want to be even faster (but that's a tiny risk you muck up the wormhole placement to pass the barriers). Stealth frames are essentially obsolete once you're Untraceable.

[CopperBezel]

Welp, I need to get one of those and replace my Auto Breach now....

[Xylena_Lazarow]

Infiltrate Ivara is like leveling your gear on Hydron. Yea there are more efficient options, but it's lazy, familiar, and idiot-proof.