Helminth Chrysalis Excalibur Umbra replace skill

[AndrewScreamSoul]

Guys, I ask for your opinion, then

I would like to replace the Radial Javelin skill of Excalibur Umbra, the skill itself is useful at low and medium levels and the augment is valid but it varies from how many enemies you hit to have the max buff of the mod and you have to take 12 enemies in range to make the most of it .. so I was thinking between Valkyr's Warcry or Chroma's Elemental Ward. The goal would be to give more defensive stats to the frame, I find them both valid where one from slow, armor buff and atk speed buff, the other in addition to having 4 different buff choices (for this post it would be in this case to go with the cold energy), it is having dmg reflection and armor buff. I am somewhat confused and I ask you for an opinion on this!

[kevoisvevo]

6 minutes ago, AndrewScreamSoul said:

Guys, I ask for your opinion, then

I would like to replace the Radial Javelin skill of Excalibur Umbra, the skill itself is useful at low and medium levels and the augment is valid but it varies from how many enemies you hit to have the max buff of the mod and you have to take 12 enemies in range to make the most of it .. so I was thinking between Valkyr's Warcry or Chroma's Elemental Ward. The goal would be to give more defensive stats to the frame, I find them both valid where one from slow, armor buff and atk speed buff, the other in addition to having 4 different buff choices (for this post it would be in this case to go with the cold energy), it is having dmg reflection and armor buff. I am somewhat confused and I ask you for an opinion on this!

Don't replace his javelin, it has a multiplicative augment similar to roar. Better to replace slash dash since umbra's ai loves to spasm that and go off map. Replace slash dash with war cry and with 200 power strength and eternal war you have around 2000 Armor along with 106% melee attack attack and 60% speed debuff on enemies around you. Warcry for damage reduction, howl for cc, radial javelin furious augment for multiplicative roar like melee damage, somrwhere in the 247% damage boost if I last recall 

[Eyn_Sof]

Depending on the build both are good choices, but for elemental ward you will need to check chromatic blade element(if you run it), and the difference is that warcry will help with both melee dps and armor while chroma will help more with chromatic blade but will most likely lose in dps and maybe armor(scratch that, after seeing ability math armor bonus is better in ward).

[ChaoticEdge]

replacement slash with elemental ward, simple or get self-healing ability.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

So, if you want to compare the two based on defense, elemental ward is much better. Both abilities scale off base armor, but while valkyr only buffs armor by 50%, chroma buffs armor by 150%, making it 3x more effective. However, if you feel like you need more damage, warcry will do better, as EW is not really a damage tool since electric and toxin chroma aura suck damage wise. 

[Oreades]

Yeah been looking into it and Elemental Ward seems like it's potentially stupid good. 

Not sure I'd put a ton of faith in damage reflection because to me it seems any time that it would really come into play in a substantial way it's going to be enough damage that it's just going to yeetshot your Warframe. 

[Kaggelos]

And im just the only guy who will put Pull on his 1 just because it's fun to use XD

[-Krism-]

What color do we need to use then? Since both Elemental Ward & Chromatic Blade uses energy color as the chosen element

[OniDax]

I'm putting Eclipse on my Umbra. Probably going to replace Radial Javelin.

[Prexades]

I would recommend to replace the 1 of Umbra with Eclipse. Depending on the situation it is either a damage reduction or a crazy damage buff.

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

Replace slash dash with war cry and with 200 power strength and eternal war you have around 2000 Armor

I don't think you are calculating Warcry's buff properly. It scales off base armor at 50%. For Umbra, that means 150 armor for every 100 points of power strength, so 300 armor at 200% strength. An armor buff of 2000 for Umbra would mean 1350% power strength. 

[Aadi880]

Il y a 4 heures, AndrewScreamSoul a dit :

Guys, I ask for your opinion, then

I would like to replace the Radial Javelin skill of Excalibur Umbra, the skill itself is useful at low and medium levels and the augment is valid but it varies from how many enemies you hit to have the max buff of the mod and you have to take 12 enemies in range to make the most of it .. so I was thinking between Valkyr's Warcry or Chroma's Elemental Ward. The goal would be to give more defensive stats to the frame, I find them both valid where one from slow, armor buff and atk speed buff, the other in addition to having 4 different buff choices (for this post it would be in this case to go with the cold energy), it is having dmg reflection and armor buff. I am somewhat confused and I ask you for an opinion on this!

Why not keep both?

Well, not on the same warframe, but you can keep configurations of abilities on the same warframe, which you can switch in and out of any time.

[kevoisvevo]

26 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't think you are calculating Warcry's buff properly. It scales off base armor at 50%. For Umbra, that means 150 armor for every 100 points of power strength, so 300 armor at 200% strength. An armor buff of 2000 for Umbra would mean 1350% power strength. 

I put warcry's forumula on umbra base Armor, all 3 umbral mods and 206 power strength. Total Armor I got was around 2000+ which included 1124 from war cry and 887 from the umbral set. Valkyr goes around 3000 Armor with her 600 base and  around 200 power strength

[Jarriaga]

11 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

I put warcry's forumula on umbra base Armor, all 3 umbral mods and 206 power strength. Total Armor I got was around 2000+ which included 1124 from war cry and 887 from the umbral set. Valkyr goes into 4000 Armor with her 600 base and  around 200 power strength

That is impossible dude. Where are you getting this info from? Umbra (300) with max bonus Umbral Fiber (192%) + 200% Warcry would only have 1178 total armor.

What do you think base armor means? If you are calculating total armor instead of base armor you're not using the correct formula. 

200% power only gives 700 Armor to Valkyr Prime.

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

Cant go wrong with some grouping cc abilities. I actually just wondered if hed use something like larva in spoiler mode

[kevoisvevo]

20 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

That is impossible dude. Where are you getting this info from? Umbra (300) with max bonus Umbral Fiber (192%) + 200% Warcry would only have 1178 total armor.

What do you think base armor means? If you are calculating total armor instead of base armor you're not using the correct formula. 

200% power only gives 700 Armor to Valkyr Prime.

Isn't that 1178 Armor from war cry additive to all other sources of Armor? So umbra gets around 887 something Armor with all umbral set and you add the warcry Armor buff to it too yes? I put the warcry formula in warframe wiki for umbra base Armor. So 887 plus your 1178

[Butterfly85]

Binning slash dash and going for roar/warcry. Either fit thematically given Umbra howls

[Jarriaga]

26 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

Isn't that 1178 Armor from war cry additive to all other sources of Armor? So umbra gets around 887 something Armor with all umbral set and you add the warcry Armor buff to it too yes? I put the warcry formula in warframe wiki for umbra base Armor. So 887 plus your 1178

No. You're using the Iron Skin formula and thinking it's the same for WC.

War Cry doesn't use your total armor or additives in the formula. It literally gives you 50% base armor for every 100% strength as an additive to armor after mods, and the formula in the wiki matches the outcome by showing you the total armor all else already accounted for. 

1178 is the total armor you have in your example including the WC bonus, which in this case is +300 because of 200% strength.  Here's the wiki's total armor calculator for reference. It gives you the full amount all mods and abilities and multipliers added in. 

[kevoisvevo]

11 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

No. WC doesn't use your total armor or additives in the formula. It literally gives you 50% base armor for every 100% strength as an additive to total armor, and the formula in the wiki matches the outcome. 1178 is the total armor you have in your example after WC. 

Hmm will have to recheck on my Warframe modding screen here then.

Edit: yup you are right checked in valkyr. She has around 2000 instead of 3000 like I initially thought. 

[iLightning13]

For defence, I might stick Defy on there. I have like 800 armour base, then 900 from arcane guardian, 1200 from ultimatum, 1500 from defy, giving me a fat 4.4k armour maximum. That's before applying adaptation DR too. Granted, it has fewer passive armour buffs, but I like using a variety of abilities to get armour buffs.

For damage, Empower (the new helminth ability). If it's got a good percentage increase, it'll give a good status and damage puff to exalted blade.

For the memes, probably pull.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Lull.  Don’t laugh.  Endless Lullaby don’t play.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I usually have no problems surviving as Umbra. Life Strike on Exalted Blade, one heavy heals to full, and that's on top of my Magus Nourish. War Cry sounds like a great idea though...

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Lull.  Don’t laugh.  Endless Lullaby don’t play.

Honestly lull seems like a good pick for any melee frame imo. Cc and damage mitagation via slow and putting enemies to sleep. 

The real question tho is if hed use the skills we put on him in spoiler mode cause then id actually wanna play him with spoiler mode. Imagine double teaming enemies legit with him doing cc and dmg while you blast them away with the amp

[Circle_of_Psi]

I might likely replace Radial Javelin as it's a terrible power and it's energy cost is way to high. I'd likely replace it with Roar/Warcry.

I just wish we chuold replace more then 1, cuz I'd also get rid of Slash-Dash, but as never use the Sentient side of Umbra, I have real no issue and its decent to use while in his 4th. 

[DrivaMain]

How would the Umbra AI act when slash dash is removed? Will he not use it or does he can cast the replaced first ability?