digital extremes accidentally retconed the warframes building sistem with helminth

[(PSN)yokai1235]

with the fact that we can change abilities that shouldn'twork on the warframe narrativally destroys the lore of the warframes being built on one specific way for specific requirements why multiples warframes that look different of one another exists and the needto have multiple warframes and also why you need to make a new warframe from the ground up instead of not modifying existing template it breaks the lore in so many ways

edit: when I  say shouldn't work i mean the way that is transfered by just injecting like a it was a vaccine like since when transplanting orgas you just stabing a needle in the chest 

[Loza03]

It's confirmed that we're going to need to unlock it, so chances are they'll flavour this as being a new development.

[Miser_able]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

with the fact that we can change abilities that shouldn'twork on the warframe narrativally destroys the lore of the warframes being built on one specific way for specific requirements why multiples warframes that look different of one another exists and the needto have multiple warframes and also why you need to make a new warframe from the ground up instead of not modifying existing template it breaks the lore in so many ways

how about we take an analogy from old papa vor here. VERY early on, vor compares our warframes to lenses that focus our divine light. there's a funny thing about lenses, you can change their shape to effect how they focus that light. well, similar principle here, the helminth manipulates our frame and changes it ever so slightly so that it can focus our light differently.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

It's confirmed that we're going to need to unlock it, so chances are they'll flavour this as being a new development.

but still will ended up retconing on how warframes are made

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

with the fact that we can change abilities that shouldn'twork on the warframe narrativally destroys the lore of the warframes being built on one specific way for specific requirements why multiples warframes that look different of one another exists and the needto have multiple warframes and also why you need to make a new warframe from the ground up instead of not modifying existing template it breaks the lore in so many ways

Not really...

We've known the part Helminth plays as it relates to frames forever now.

Feeding frames to Helmith to modify powers on other frames is new...but not without some precedent.  Everyone has had to go to the chair to inoculate at some point or other from the cyst because Helminth is essentially another form of the infestation... Feeding it frames teaches it their powers.

Frankly, the whole Helminth thing has the potential to be fairly insidious depending how you choose to look at it.

 

 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

how about we take an analogy from old papa vor here. VERY early on, vor compares our warframes to lenses that focus our divine light. there's a funny thing about lenses, you can change their shape to effect how they focus that light. well, similar principle here, the helminth manipulates our frame and changes it ever so slightly so that it can focus our light differently.

that dosent work as you can easily see fire producing equipment on ember arms and cooling sisystem on frost and magnets on meg and eletric conductors on volt and a energy projector on excalibur palm and fans i jets on zephyr 

[TARINunit9]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

but still will ended up retconing on how warframes are made

The lore was broken as far back as Zanuka Hunter

If you actually get captured by that thing (impossible in modern times, I know, but was very possible back in the day) you would need to find four things to escape: your primary, your secondary, your melee, and "your powers". Lotus would just flat out tell you "You've found your powers".

Our powers have always been these stupid computer chips you can just slot in and out.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

The lore was broken as far back as Zanuka Hunter

If you actually get captured by that thing (impossible in modern times, I know, but was very possible back in the day) you would need to find four things to escape: your primary, your secondary, your melee, and "your powers". Lotus would just flat out tell you "You've found your powers".

Our powers have always been these stupid computer chips you can just slot in and out.

no because in the lore before the second dream the  abilities were components/implants of the warframe actually you still can get captured and some Warframes lose parts garuda looses her claws protea looses the stuff on her waist titan if i not wrong also looses some parts 

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

but still will ended up retconing on how warframes are made

... No it won't?

It's been established for quite some time that Warframes are made from Infestation. Even before the Sacrifice, Infested material was common in their construction. Within the Sacrifice, it's stated that it's a particular strain of the Infestation, and Helminth was well-known to exist by then.

[Miser_able]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

that dosent work as you can easily see fire producing equipment on ember arms and cooling sisystem on frost and magnets on meg and eletric conductors on volt and a energy projector on excalibur palm and fans i jets on zephyr 

those are just cosmetic. if they were actually required then you'd lose your abilities if you took enough damage or if you used another skin. all warframes work on the same basic principle of shaping our raw void energy into something else. it's quite likely that embers fire, frosts ice, and volts electricity aren't even real but are instead a sort of void based mimic. notice how frosts ice doesn't stay like real ice would, embers fire doesn't scorch grass or ignite trees, and volt's electricity is capable of effecting things that would be immune to electricity such as rubber or stone.

[Berzerkules]

Lore be damned! That Breach Surge band aid is gettin slapped on more than a few frames.

[--F--NerevarCM]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

with the fact that we can change abilities that shouldn'twork on the warframe narrativally destroys the lore of the warframes being built on one specific way for specific requirements why multiples warframes that look different of one another exists and the needto have multiple warframes and also why you need to make a new warframe from the ground up instead of not modifying existing template it breaks the lore in so many ways

No. It doesn't. We know from The Sacrifice Quest that Warframes are people infected with the Helminth strain of the Infestation. But the game never tell us how each Warframe gets its powers. We only know the Warframe uses the Void Power from the Tenno as a battery, and uses it to power the abilities. But we don't know how the abilities are "imprinted" on each Warframe.

The Helminth System pretty much gives us a answer. The Helminth injects the powers on each Warframe. As a code.

And the fact that we only can change ONE power means that creating specialized Warframes still is the best choice. Lorewise, Limbo can still control the Rift better than any Warframe with just banish slapped on it.

Nova can control Antimatter and be a nuker better than any Rhino with Nullstar. Because Rhino, with Nullstar, still is a heavy frame focused around tanking, not nuking.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

17 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

those are just cosmetic. if they were actually required then you'd lose your abilities if you took enough damage or if you used another skin. all warframes work on the same basic principle of shaping our raw void energy into something else. it's quite likely that embers fire, frosts ice, and volts electricity aren't even real but are instead a sort of void based mimic. notice how frosts ice doesn't stay like real ice would, embers fire doesn't scorch grass or ignite trees, and volt's electricity is capable of effecting things that would be immune to electricity such as rubber or stone.

exist differenttypes of ice like dry ice that nerver reach the liquid state or absolute zero ice fire don't burn like you see in movies depending on the chemical on the area and how the air is moving the objects can't get burned by fire if the electrical charge is to high rubber can actually be burned and electricity can pass trueth and also break rock by a fenomenon  the attomes get extremely charged causing them to split on a violent speed and looks like a explosion depending on how dense the material it os turns harder to do but not

[(PSN)yokai1235]

16 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

No. It doesn't. We know from The Sacrifice Quest that Warframes are people infected with the Helminth strain of the Infestation. But the game never tell us how each Warframe gets its powers. We only know the Warframe uses the Void Power from the Tenno as a battery, and uses it to power the abilities. But we don't know how the abilities are "imprinted" on each Warframe.

The Helminth System pretty much gives us a answer. The Helminth injects the powers on each Warframe. As a code.

And the fact that we only can change ONE power means that creating specialized Warframes still is the best choice. Lorewise, Limbo can still control the Rift better than any Warframe with just banish slapped on it.

Nova can control Antimatter and be a nuker better than any Rhino with Nullstar. Because Rhino, with Nullstar, still is a heavy frame focused around tanking, not nuking.

this not metalgear that every thing can be answered with nanomachines

[0_The_F00l]

War frames are made or designed to optimise ALL their powers,

Gauss has the necessary shielding and aerodynamics to move really really fast without breaking apart but having an energy thermal battery is possible as a single component.

Ember is intended to be able to release heat rapidly and store it without damaging her components but simply releasing energy is possible by a bomb too.

Frost is intended to be the opposite , able to absorb heat and manipulate moisture again possible by a thermal battery.

Volt is redirecting Electricity, that needs a combination of conductors, inductors, capacitors and insulators to work suitably but using a taser can be done by anyone.

 

They are intended to be optimized for the full kit and no two frames can do the exact same thing.

A single ability though , could be managed by generic mechanisms with some loss of function imagine taking the standalone component that doesnt needs the rest of the supporting mechanisms to function being removed and re configured to work differently.

 

 

Thats just what i tell myself to maintain some level of immersion, consistency never was DE strong suit as they have shown repeatedly.

[(XBOX)DreamyRelic80]

It’s not lore breaking if you don’t know story wise how it works yet. None of us do till the heart of Deimos is out. You seem to have your mind set on the idea that it does break while quite a few people including myself disagree. After the update give us answers we can make informed guesses. They’re are a lot of things in the game that seem to contradict other but with further information actually different dont. Like Excalibur being the first, but you have prime, umbra and Nidus for that matter. These things are all factually true, contradict, but don’t break lore.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 minute ago, (XB1)DreamyRelic80 said:

It’s not lore breaking if you don’t know story wise how it works yet. None of us do till the heart of Deimos is out. You seem to have your mind set on the idea that it does break while quite a few people including myself disagree. After the update give us answers we can make informed guesses. They’re are a lot of things in the game that seem to contradict other but with further information actually different dont. Like Excalibur being the first, but you have prime, umbra and Nidus for that matter. These things are all factually true, contradict, but don’t break lore.

my problem is not the ability being swap but how is swapped a injection in the torax really like these things are suposed to be bigger like organs not a bunch of stem cells 

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Isn't the Helminth strain presumably the infestation that created the Warframes? So who are we to say it can't do whatever it wants with them?

[(XBOX)DreamyRelic80]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

my problem is not the ability being swap but how is swapped a injection in the torax really like these things are suposed to be bigger like organs not a bunch of stem cells 

Look I can make something up about it be a mutation of the infestation that can mutate the infection at will. Truth is we will all hopeful have a better understanding after the update, lol

[Rakosta_Kai]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

my problem is not the ability being swap but how is swapped a injection in the torax really like these things are suposed to be bigger like organs not a bunch of stem cells 

OK...

• You have a frame that can literally leap out of this dimension...
• A frame that can channel the sun...
• A frame that can raise the dead...
• And frames that can turn themselves into a puddles of water and clouds...

And you are worried about what organs their powers come from?

[(PSN)yokai1235]

7 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Isn't the Helminth strain presumably the infestation that created the Warframes? So who are we to say it can't do whatever it wants with them?

that is the retcon as before we needed manufature the components but helminth can make on his own and add to any warframe iven create his own warframes from nothing thatis a massive change 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

OK...

• You have a frame that can literally leap out of this dimension...
• A frame that can channel the sun...
• A frame that can raise the dead...
• And frames that can turn themselves into a puddles of water and clouds...

And you are worried about what organs their powers come from?

more than that if helminth justtransplant the organs and that give powers is less of a retcon them what de showed as it would still make the aquisiton of the warframes and how they work intact and kept some what of lore consistency which Is one of the things that this game desperately needs as every update after plains of idolon needesly retcons 20% of the game like is hard to invest interst on a story if keeps retroactive change the entire story constantly 

[Myscho]

DE just bend lore whatever they feel the need, so dont look something heavy behind 

[Vlada91]

Who cares its just a game, and this game doesn't have some lore to begin with. So as long its fun and have more options in a good way like this 1 then im good with all this.... Its like you don't want to have some nice things in here

[Rakosta_Kai]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

lore consistency

There's a tiny one but it's years old...

That dealt with the imagery and implications of The Gradivus Dilemma...The story has hung together fairly consistently since the quests leading up to TSD though.

While the game definitely still has more questions than answers at this point, that's still fewer questions than we had 5 years go.

I am not familiar with retcon points from PoE but it's your thread so do feel free to highlight them.