When is a New Player no longer New? [Helminth Mastery change]

[DiceyDelphic]

New players to "not new":

Is it when they finish the Second Dream? Perhaps after the War Within? The Sacrifice maybe? Or is it after beating the intro.

Did they start getting decent gear like proper weapons, a second frame, mods, or prime gear? Mastery 8 is usually around this time that picks up the pace at least as far as tell.

Or is it because they spent enough time grinding some resources micromanaging crafts of multiple fodder weapons to power level their mastery in only a few week or 2?

How much time did they spend doing it? maybe a few days of playtime but not much compared to true casuals easing their mastery pace respectively by playing with what they like.

 

Either way, telling everyone during Tennocon the system is "not for new players" only to half the mastery requirements to 8 speaks different.

I'm not here to justify the original cap of mastery 15 being rightfully placed before no, but for such a bold claim in a game that panders to mainly the new player experience it seems like they're pulling out on this too. (to no one's surprise who's stuck around this long of course lol).

Some people already came up with some quick solutions of MR 10-12 or at least it to be story locked to a certain point. Both are great solutions, ideally the story one in my preference.

I don't think anyone subsuming their Warframe before the Second Dream or any lore after will even know what they're doing or why they're throwing what they understand is "who" they are into a amorphous flesh creature. It should at least have a quest limitation that respects such a decision if the MR is going to be that low. That or only have the capabilities besides subsuming accessible upon unlock till a threshold (quest/ higher MR) is met after for the rest.

I'm not asking anything revolutionary or controversial like reworking Steel Path rewards (missions reward tweaks tm), but it'd be nice to have a proper build up of power over time for these new players becoming more than just a speedrun mastery grind.

This is quite the simple but effective overhaul to general gameplay to hand out so easily when it's much more expansive than just "Archgun but ground", amps, rivens, etc.

This mastery gate is now criminally low and does not grant the time or direction to understand any lore about anything related to the infestation, Warframes, and all that other juicy stuff.

 

Feel free to shred some insight if I have it all wrong, or maybe your own ideas how to find the holy middle ground of requirements. (or your own solution in general)

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

When they can craft the Paracesis, solo a reqiuem fissure, or survive an Eidolon without being carried they're inbetween "new player" and "jaded veteran."

[Aldain]

No amount of MR can account for somebody who can't think their way out of a paper bag.

Some players will pick the game up, research and understand things by MR10, others might just go to Hydron and power level things until they are MR23.

MR means nothing of experience, it doesn't even show time investment outside of maybe a few days of resets and waiting on things to build.

I'd hazard that there are less differences between an MR8 vs an MR15 one than between an MR0 and an MR5.

MR10 would have been the best point for it to be, either that or MR12, everything after 12 is mostly just fluff.

[DrivaMain]

MR10-12 is the sweet spot in my opinion. Because that's when late game solo equipment are available.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

I would say the moment you notice those 3 hour play sessions are now 6-12 hour play sessions.

But honestly i would say someone is no longer new when they feel they understand the systems infront of them without needing to hit the wiki up regardless of mastery rank. 😉

 

[Hypernaut1]

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

I would say the moment you notice those 3 hour play sessions are now 6-12 hour play sessions.

But honestly i would say someone is no longer new when they feel they understand the systems infront of them without needing to hit the wiki up regardless of mastery rank. 😉

 

I still use the wiki. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I really hope DE is copping some flak from this so that they learn. They've basically back flipped on their statement at Tennocon which is no great suprise but no less pathetic.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

No amount of MR can account for somebody who can't think their way out of a paper bag.

Some players will pick the game up, research and understand things by MR10, others might just go to Hydron and power level things until they are MR23.

MR means nothing of experience, it doesn't even show time investment outside of maybe a few days of resets and waiting on things to build.

I'd hazard that there are less differences between an MR8 vs an MR15 one than between an MR0 and an MR5.

MR10 would have been the best point for it to be, either that or MR12, everything after 12 is mostly just fluff.

Personally, I think MR10 or 12 wouldve been good too. 

But helminth isnt as powerful as people think it is though. Focus schools seem more advanced than helminth. So I can see a MR8 player wanting to customize their frame, and choosing helminth as a goal before many other late game powecreep systems. 

To us vets, it seems new and powerful. To a newer player, replacing an ability with pull isn't going to seem all that crazy. 

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

I still use the wiki. 

*sigh* me too 😞

I should of said not having it open 24-7 while playing Warframe lol. I adore Warframe & DE to bits but always fine myself a tad lost here or there. Many systems require alot of knowledge at hand.

[superiouz]

I agree its to low to understand. I have a couple scenario in my mind that this update will harm new player. For example. he/she will subsume his/her only frame A. Now he have to farm it again. (And complain it here)ect.

 

 

Off topic Idk why this remind me of my friend. 

He is mr8 

He dont know anything about kuva lich and somehow had 1 active, and he cant kill it. I told him just ignore the lich untill he ready. Months pass by, He heard about kuva bramma, And want it. He ask me how to get it, i told him to kill your lich first. He said okay... 

 

He is now very happy

Playing another game. And Its been months 

 

 

I tried to get him to play this game again but he give up. 

[Midas]

When you have an 8 year old account, are invested in some high end content and communicate with high end players, and learn Warframe mechanics to better understand the game and prepare your friends/clanmates with that information. When you start to teach other players how to build and play is when you are not new and are able to correctly decide which abilities go where with the new system.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Currently you need to be MR 10 to use the auto install function on Ayatan statues but MR 8 to subsume your frame...

[dwqrf]

MR 14 represent 1/4 of the total Mastery. MR 21 is 1/2. MR 26 is 3/4, and of couse, MR 29+ is the full Mastery actually. If we consider the MR as a progression system, setting anything under MR 14 as "Veteran" is a joke. But MR is really the easiest thing to farm in game ; as lore (kuria, fragments, and the codex overall) and cosmetics (ephemeras) are a huge pain to grind, and take much longer than just Mastery.

In my humbe opinion, I don't consider a player "Experienced" as long as he didn't start playing himself the "real" end game, that is : farming Arbitration, doing the daily Sortie, learning Trioldons, and clearing slowly the Steel path. It doesn't need to be efficient, but doing it everyday is a proof of commitment towards grinding goals. And when you start doing that for yourself, and not being carried, you are already at MR15+- minimum. A "Veteran" would master all the gamemode above cited, and have differents tools ready to deal with those.

[ARavenousPanda]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

*sigh* me too 😞

I should of said not having it open 24-7 while playing Warframe lol. I adore Warframe & DE to bits but always fine myself a tad lost here or there. Many systems require alot of knowledge at hand.

I disagree with this, i have 2-3 tabs of wiki open most of the time, and i often double check information. Feels like every other day they are changing or implementing a system - not only is it hard to keep up but there is a fair bit to unlearn.

 

Not just that, but running into niche mechanics it is worth checking the wiki to ensure it works as expected. I still remember when everyone said crit soma P was the way to go and to quit when you hit the wall - until people realised status would carry them that little further. Obviously today that isnt niche knowledge, but there are other systems/effects that are.


IMO a new player is no longer new based on the ability to unlock anything in the game (which is arguably MR15 - aklex prime and some kuva weapons?) but *also* quest related (probably war within). There is nothing bad with locking content behind what would be deemed a natural progression (minimum 16 days - 20 warframes and ~140 weapons with full starchart completion - probably closer to 6 weeks with direction, obviously could take longer)

[0_The_F00l]

Probably when they start thinking "I will need x forma on this frame or weapon to make it good" 

Instead of "I wonder what mods at what level are good for this weapon". 

That I believe is the crucial point when they are no longer new players.

Not MR, not skill, or quests completed but knowing when a weapon will work for you in the way you envision it should. 

 

As to the current issue of helminth, I am of the view that there should be multiple conditions to access with tiers. 

You should absolutely need to have completed the Nidus and umbra quests. 

MR 8 should only allow some basic features like using helminth abilities. 

Then you would need the segment from the syndicate. 

Then MR 15 should be when you should be able to subsume frames. 

[schilds]

When you have 5+ forma on every piece of equipment!

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'd say if you've done the entire starchart, every quest, can reliably survive in anything up to and including Sorties, and at least know some of how each warframe's powers work (at least the ones you own), then you've graduated from newbie to mid-tier. 

when you're jaded, cynical and are Forma'ing things you don't even like because you literally have nothing else to do, you're a veteran. at least that's how it seems to work..

oh, and your fashion has to be on point: that's VERY important!

[Amazing_Miggles]

When you keep logging in day after day without a clear idea of what you want to do but still do so anyway.

[Gremlin]

There is no clear answer. It's impossible to know what kind of knowledge someone has based on MR. Shoot, I've been playing for almost 6 years, MR 26, and am a founder, and there are still things I haven't, nor do I want to touch (eidolons, railjack, some other new boring systems). Even taking long breaks after burnouts, I come back and have less knowledge than a lot of low MRs who have just started playing as the content and resource grind in this game changes so much. To some, based on that I'm considered a noob, to others, I'm an OG vet. 

 

Anyone trying to give legitimate threshold for new/vet players is just pulling stuff out of their asses. 

[Killa_Byte]

when you have 3.2 billion harrow chassis in your inventory then you become non noob

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

It's hard to say... My only concern now is, that new players start fiddeling around with the system, while they still don't own 80% of all the available frames and also still don't know what specific frames can do and how their abilities synergize, thus leading to even more confusion. Giving new players almost immediate access to everthing new in the game doesn't automatically enhance their player experience. I remember those random bounties on the plains, where I was constantly joined by MR1 - MR3 players, that couldn't kill anything but got one-shot all the time. I highly doubt, those players had actually fun and enjoyed their opportunity to have immediate access to new content, which clearly wasn't designed for their power level... In my opinion, the Helminth system should at least be locked behind star chart completion, so that newer players might at least have farmed themselves a minimum of different frames (in a non-carry scenario) and might already have experienced some important lore quests (Second dream, War within, the Nidus questline, etc.).

 

[o0Despair0o]

I consider people as "no longer new" when they stop asking about the most obvious things every 10 minutes.

[vegetosayajin]

2 hours ago, schilds said:

When you have 5+ forma on every piece of equipment!

This is just dumb for a lot of weapons , not to mention frames. 😄 I think you are joking but here you can never be sure. XD
Why are you going to forma limbo p 5 times for example? I have a 0 forma build on him and I soloed the ss(and a lot of other things) with no problem for example.
Or on most melee you need from 0 to 3 forma and there are very few exceptions to this that need 5.

[schilds]

 You're right, it should be 10+ forma!

I can't wait for when they let us forma our Railjack too!

[vegetosayajin]

3 minutes ago, schilds said:

 You're right, it should be 10+ forma!

I can't wait for when they let us forma our Railjack too!