When is a New Player no longer New? [Helminth Mastery change]

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 minutes ago, Angwah said:

Now imagine this is locked at MR15, and being forced to make the decision to either sell the frame and farm it again at a later point, or shell out for additional slots and hang on to it. and that is if you even know you will need those spares at some point in the future...

I'm pretty sure most people who are MR15 or higher probably have access to some plat via selling on the market since there's not much to do past a certain point anyway.  You'd only need one extra slot since you can only subsume 1 frame every 23 hours.  That's not expensive in the slightest.

3 minutes ago, Angwah said:

So, no, access to the Helminth to clear out your regular frames in my opinion very much belongs at MR 8. Access to imprinting the subsumed abilities back into your frames can wait for a higher MR for all I care, but seriously, lets not force people into choosing between keeping those old frames in their inventory with platinum or refarming them all over again.

 

Clearing out old frames for new ones is very much experienced player thinking.  Not someone who's trying to clear all of WF's content.  Good try though.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Nope, the Aura mods and Adaptation don't appeal to me all that much. Rolling Guard is about the biggest thing in the reward pool that would appeal to me but everything else is just there.

As I mentioned, I'm not an endurance runner, so such things don't really help me much. Same with the Arcanes, nice to have but I don't need em.

If I get there one day, great, but really I'm in no rush to grind out Arbies for things I likely will never need or use.

Fair enough. I’d argue the endo farm is a bigger perk than any of those things, but there are other methods to get endo. Rewards aside I just think it’s the most fun game mode to play, but to each their own.

[schilds]

I think it's fair enough that nubs don't have immediate access to the awesome power of multi-slotting stars into scultpures.

[tennomantra]

Mastery Rank is certainly not the right measure for experience in this game, but MR15 sounded just right, because in my experience, that is about the rank when all content is available and has been at least tasted. It's still a point where people generally haven't tried that many warframes, but sounds fair as a start of an access to the first levels of changing them.
The biggest issue here is that they did not share their reasoning behind the change and the lack of care when editing the original proclamation of this being intended for very experienced veteran players have instantly created the meme of MR8 Veteran.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I’d argue the endo farm is a bigger perk than any of those things, but there are other methods to get endo.

With my bad luck from sortie rewards I know this all too well...painfully well.

I've gotten so many Ayatans and 4k Endo drops it is just depressing.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

With my bad luck from sortie rewards I know this all too well...painfully well.

I've gotten so many Ayatans and 4k Endo drops it is just depressing.

I think I’m the only person who actually likes getting the Ayatans. Ranking up all the mods in this game, especially the Primes if you want them maxed, takes an absolute mountain of Endo. Feels like I’ll never be finished. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

When they can properly mod and handle a sortie or just any content without being carried. 

[Jarriaga]

Quoting myself:

31 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I started playing October 2nd, 2017:

 I reached MR8 just 16 days later on October 18th, so not even 3 full weeks after joining the game:

Unless DE expects you to only play no more than 2 hours per week, their definition of what an "experienced" player is feels rather absurd.

[Torbamf]

I’m really annoyed about them backtracking their word of making this a system intended for veterans, however I don’t know how the barriers to entry will be made and I’m still willing to give it a try.

[Hypernaut1]

When i think about it, i dont feel like Helminth is really all that advanced. Its just an ability swap. I dont see why a newer payer would be confused at the concept of "sacrifice this frame to earn this ability". Seems pretty straightforward to me. In fact, it seems like a more straightforward system than arcanes and focus. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

It is so easy to rank up mastery these days with new items being thown in your direction constantly. It's not like the old days when MR8 was new and we had to scrape for every piece of existing affinity possible. 

Without reworking Sortie rewards, I'd hate to suggest something like this but they could tie it behind a reasonable MR (like 10) and require 10 Sortie completions or something before being eligible. Yes, you can still be carried through sorties, but that's true of most things in this game.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

I think this is actually a very good change.

Ok, you're new and you don't have all the fancy mods, the ones you have are not maxed out, Sorties will kill you plus you can't use the rivens anyway and you're still busy finishing the Star Chart yet so no arbitrations. Eidolons and the Orb Mothers are way out of your reach.

But what you can do is get the regular frames. It is actually what you are meant to be doing at this MR level. Of course, slots are still an issue, and they will need to go to make place for the prime version when you get it. This is of course precisely where Helminth can be of assistance!

Now imagine this is locked at MR15, and being forced to make the decision to either sell the frame and farm it again at a later point, or shell out for additional slots and hang on to it. and that is if you even know you will need those spares at some point in the future...

So, no, access to the Helminth to clear out your regular frames in my opinion very much belongs at MR 8. Access to imprinting the subsumed abilities back into your frames can wait for a higher MR for all I care, but seriously, lets not force people into choosing between keeping those old frames in their inventory with platinum or refarming them all over again.

 

This is an excellent point. I actually think the helminth is more of a straightforward newer player system than arcanes and focus. How hard is it to understand "sacrifice this frame to access its ability" Its not really all that advanced if you think about it. It makes more sense than many other things and isnt exactly as OP as people make it out to be.

Ive been playing this game for years and even as a new player, i never understood the point of having regular frames, when they arent even needed to craft primes. This system gives regular frames a purpose and shouldn't be locked to veterans. It also introduces a resource sink early, which is good. We've been asking for a resource sink for years. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is an excellent point. I actually think the helminth is more of a straightforward newer player system than arcanes and focus. How hard is it to understand "sacrifice this frame to access its ability" Its not really all that advanced if you think about it. It makes more sense than many other things and isnt exactly as OP as people make it out to be.

Ive been playing this game for years and even as a new player, i never understood the point of having regular frames, when they arent even needed to craft primes. This system gives regular frames a purpose and shouldn't be locked to veterans. It also introduces a resource sink early, which is good. We've been asking for a resource sink for years. 

I maintain my biggest problem with it being the willingness of DE to backflip on their statements. It just means that the infested planet which was SUPPOSED to be a challenge, will be yet another humdrum activity open world with no enemies of note. 100% they will nerf it to the ground to cater to the screams of the casual playerbase.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I maintain my biggest problem with it being the willingness of DE to backflip on their statements. It just means that the infested planet which was SUPPOSED to be a challenge, will be yet another humdrum activity open world with no enemies of note. 100% they will nerf it to the ground to cater to the screams of the casual playerbase.

thats the conundrum. Helminth should be a midtier system, yet Deimos should NOT be. 

Like ive said before, i can only hope DE finds a way to work SP over everything i do. This way everything they release can "be for vets"

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

thats the conundrum. Helminth should be a midtier system, yet Deimos should NOT be. 

Like ive said before, i can only hope DE finds a way to work SP over everything i do. This way everything they release can "be for vets"

Wouldn't that be nice. I mean Steel Path was a joke, I have an MR 11 who's been playing for 3 weeks doing it now, though most of it is being carried. Deimos should be challenging, they don't have the same excuse that was given last time of "Venus is a really early planet for new players" 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

How many warframes can a MR8 gather before jumping into Demios? Rather the better quest is: how many warframe slots does a MR8 have at that point? I wouldn't mind it being locked behind MR15 if we were to only toss in the warframe bluepirnts and the respective components blueprints. Getting to MR8 is relatively short. With only three warframe slots and saving those frames to feed to the room, it's going to take a lot longer. I'm expecting to see lots of Rhino roaming the Fleshscape.

[Angwah]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I'm pretty sure most people who are MR15 or higher probably have access to some plat via selling on the market since there's not much to do past a certain point anyway.  You'd only need one extra slot since you can only subsume 1 frame every 23 hours.  That's not expensive in the slightest.

Clearing out old frames for new ones is very much experienced player thinking.  Not someone who's trying to clear all of WF's content.  Good try though.

Yes, by MR 15 I had most of the frames, by MR 8 I did not, that's the point.

In fact, by then I had all the unvaulted prime frames, and sold the regulars, even primed up the frames I did not like. Now, by MR 19 I have the full collection and could in fact easily afford a slot for all the regular frames on top of their prime variants if I wanted to. But if I had to keep a copy of all the frames I upgraded to primes before I hit MR 15 I would have felt that DE was swindling me in spending platinum on useless slots, because I would have needed much more than 1 extra slot to hold the frames I was going to subsume.

So no, clearing out old frames is very much not experienced player thinking, in fact quite the opposite, as you really need to make space in your inventory. Right now I consider slots cheap, back then, not so much...

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Yes, by MR 15 I had most of the frames, by MR 8 I did not, that's the point.

In fact, by then I had all the unvaulted prime frames, and sold the regulars, even primed up the frames I did not like. Now, by MR 19 I have the full collection and could in fact easily afford a slot for all the regular frames on top of their prime variants if I wanted to. But if I had to keep a copy of all the frames I upgraded to primes before I hit MR 15 I would have felt that DE was swindling me in spending platinum on useless slots, because I would have needed much more than 1 extra slot to hold the frames I was going to subsume.

So no, clearing out old frames is very much not experienced player thinking, in fact quite the opposite, as you really need to make space in your inventory. Right now I consider slots cheap, back then, not so much...

 

I don't follow.  Are you trying to say that DE is lowering the MR requirement to 8 because it would be a meaningful choice to subsume at that point?

When I made the MR climb I simply sold the frames to make room for their prime counterpart.  I don't know how someone could feel swindled for spending money on extra slots.  It's not like DE is going to stop making frames/primes.  So it's not like even if you freed up all of those slots after what...nearly a month? of subsuming that they'ed never be useful again.

[Angwah]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I don't follow.  Are you trying to say that DE is lowering the MR requirement to 8 because it would be a meaningful choice to subsume at that point?

When I made the MR climb I simply sold the frames to make room for their prime counterpart.  I don't know how someone could feel swindled for spending money on extra slots.  It's not like DE is going to stop making frames/primes.  So it's not like even if you freed up all of those slots after what...nearly a month? of subsuming that they'ed never be useful again.

Yes, I sold them as well, and now I am busy farming them for the second time. We of course didn't know beforehand, so there was no choice to make.

But if you start now and you want to upgrade, well, sell the regular one knowing at some point you must farm it again, or buy an extra slot to keep it till you can subsume at MR15. That is why I think lowering the MR requirement for the subsuming at least is a good call.

As I said, putting the powers back into warframes can wait till a higher MR as reward for that for all I care.

[Erocss]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

So a minimum of 8 years to not be considered new? Got it.

Next year it will be increased to 9 years so you better get to playing!

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

2 hours ago, Angwah said:

Yes, I sold them as well, and now I am busy farming them for the second time. We of course didn't know beforehand, so there was no choice to make.

But if you start now and you want to upgrade, well, sell the regular one knowing at some point you must farm it again, or buy an extra slot to keep it till you can subsume at MR15. That is why I think lowering the MR requirement for the subsuming at least is a good call.

As I said, putting the powers back into warframes can wait till a higher MR as reward for that for all I care.

Interesting. If you can only feed the helmith at a low MR but can't actually slot warframe abilities until you get a higher mr I suppose I could live with that. 

[Cloud]

17 hours ago, Aldain said:

No amount of MR can account for somebody who can't think their way out of a paper bag.

Some players will pick the game up, research and understand things by MR10, others might just go to Hydron and power level things until they are MR23.

MR means nothing of experience, it doesn't even show time investment outside of maybe a few days of resets and waiting on things to build.

I'd hazard that there are less differences between an MR8 vs an MR15 one than between an MR0 and an MR5.

MR10 would have been the best point for it to be, either that or MR12, everything after 12 is mostly just fluff.

I've seen very good low mr players but I never saw an unexperienced mr 20+. Seems these kind of legendary players come out only when you have to do an argument about how MR does not mean anything on the forum.

[Methanoid]

A player, any player should be ready and considered "not new" when they have barreled their way through the star chart and completed the main storyline quests, a pointless and irrelevant MR shouldnt even factor in.

[Methanoid]

8 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I maintain my biggest problem with it being the willingness of DE to backflip on their statements. It just means that the infested planet which was SUPPOSED to be a challenge, will be yet another humdrum activity open world with no enemies of note. 100% they will nerf it to the ground to cater to the screams of the casual playerbase.

probably nothing to do with casuals or anything, its probably more about just getting it playable to as many players as possible so their stats look good, remember the opening of railjack when barely anybody bothered actually playing it besides a bunch of vets who quickly did it all then abandoned it leaving the people on catchup in a barren wasteland of activity.  they seemingly dont learn from history when they keep adding in more and more ways to restrict their audience with newer content.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

To me someone id no longer new once they have completed at least half the games content.  Completing quests, doing unlocks, have a nice chunk of equipment, having s understsnding of the games mechanics.