When an over-kneejerk reaction from the community meets same standarts from the devs ..

[killerJoke66]

 some  nicely structured meme opening

Okay  ,   some of us knew this would be coming for the helminth system , but this time it was a TAD LITTLE bit too fast for even DE's standarts (considering for them 4+ years condition overload and other melee mods being fine but a time comes and its no longer 'i n t e n d e d ' )

The Helminth system that made some players grow a bit of hope for the game and for others balance concerns , seems to be decided on getting nerfed.  Though most of us assumed the changable abilites were to be ones that are considered weak turns out DE this time suprised us with not so weak abilites to choose from. Yet  we still knew something was wrong ! fun had to be nerfed ! You have felt it in your veins didn't you .

After the first anouncement came casuals and some other type of players that i dont know of started about bragging that rhino's roar would be too good even when DE themselves noted that straight damage buffing abilites wouldn't be able to stack , yet they continued to brag about phantom balance when it was not even considering a threat in the first place , no .. you guys couldn't stop yourself from over- kneejerking to the POSSIBLE (past tense now ) changes to the game 

Congrats guys you did it ! Somehow you achieved the most absurd outcome humanly imaginable ... Causing something to be nerfed before its offical release date ..............


Yelling in every platform (forums, reddit , youtube , maybe even twitter , god knows what you wrote in twitter) to convince devs that this system would be too good for you , EVEN THOUGH the contrast has been shown by multiple times , on different posts ,with different people showing you that it wouldn't be 'that' broken , no you simply coulnd't just wait it out to see it yourself . 

SO .. What is the 'punch line' here you might ask , well its a deduction .

DE is not to blame on this one , you guys literally brought this upon yourselves , and to me this incident(and the other previous ocasions showing that changes are made were from responses from the community , moreso than DE's decision making as a whole) sold me on the idea that this game has very very little chance to grow(in quality wise , not the situational number bumps on big updates)  because of its community , not because of the Leyou , not the parrent company's decision makers , but this very specific community , is to blame. ( a summary of why we wont be having above averge nice things in the future.)

[DrivaMain]

Better nerf it now before it’s too late. DE is known for nerfing things after players are already invested in it and caused huge backlash. If DE nerfs it before release the backlash is a lot less smaller because player’s time and money are not wasted. I respected DE’s move of “let’s bare a small loss to prevent a big loss”.

[krc473]

19 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

but this very specific community , is to blame.

So, this is a pointless rant post? You should have put that at the top so people don't waste their time reading it. You could have mentioned that DE said everything was subject to change. This means that DE may have been still figuring out how to balance stuff effectively, and the community really had no impact on the matter. But you don't. For some reason you are blaming the community, who DE has no obligation to listen to. DE could have easily chosen to ignore whatever it is that the community said about the matter.

 

On a side note: rant posts violate forum rules. 

Quote

2) QUALITY STANDARDS – Use our forums to talk to us and talk to each other in a constructive and respectful way that encourages interaction and thoughtful discussion. Stay on-topic, be constructive and use descriptive Topic titles. Don’t rage/rant post, name and shame, have misleading topic titles, post spam, advertisements, unreleased Design Council information, pornography or any other inappropriate, offensive or irrelevant content to the Forums in text, image, or video form. We will delete/edit it, and there will be consequences as per our warnings.

 

[killerJoke66]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Better nerf it now before it’s too late. DE is known for nerfing things after players are already invested in it and caused huge backlash. If DE nerfs it before release the backlash is a lot less smaller because player’s time and money are not wasted. I respected DE’s move of “let’s bare a small loss to prevent a big loss”.

I've already seen lot of people farming and building multiple extra frames so .. idk about that , and luckily i know this was coming so i was chill , simply i didnt expect it too too soon.

[killerJoke66]

8 minutes ago, krc473 said:

So, this is a pointless rant post? You should have put that at the top so people don't waste their time reading it. You could have mentioned that DE said everything was subject to change. This means that DE may have been still figuring out how to balance stuff effectively, and the community really had no impact on the matter. But you don't. For some reason you are blaming the community, who DE has no obligation to listen to. DE could have easily chosen to ignore whatever it is that the community said about the matter.

 

Point was a personal deduction and i wanted to share it. No , im not saying it sarcastically , and for the community not affecting this outcome ; youre simply wrong. They were waiting it for the reaction and they changed accordingly . and no they dont need to only read this forum , especially with twitter and reddit , community has a lot more impact there than here.

[Graavarg]

There was no over-kneejerk reaction from the community. I think you are missing how many extremely knowledgeable and immersed players there are. Some might use a bit more colourful language, but it isn't that hard seeing what a "no-nerfed" Roar subsumation process would have led to.

And it is not the über-power in itself that is the problem, but the risk of (once again) producing a meta that 90% will use and that "blocks" all the other interesting and nifty combinations. In short: reducing Warframe to a few meta-memes on Youtube (that anyone can copy and use to beat anything) will destroy the gaming experience, which in turn destroys the game.

There are some game companies using an "from op to nerf"-cycle, in order to buff their own finances. Releasing content that is better than anything else, and then nerfing it once a large part of the community has bought it. DE has occasionally been accused of doing this, but I don't see it. While some "op" stuff gets released (and then nerfed) there is quite a lot of stuff that is simply "normal" on release, or the exact opposite (so subpowered that it gets buffed). And this "pre-nerf" further shows that DE not only cares about Warframe, but is quite able to identify a super-powercreep trap in advance.

[kgabor]

Honestly, it was a bad idea to put things like Roar, War Cry, Null Star, Eclipse etc. there.

This system would have been and will be fine with just the niche and Helminth specific abilities, some of the Helminth ones are actually way better than the ones they nerfed, f.ex. 'Marked for Death' is all my Banshee needs. (maybe it would be too good for my Harrow though, but Harrow doesn't have useless abilities to replace, still the energy gains would be insane)

[Nailclipper]

I guess with the latest announcement, they should have just changed Roar to Rhino Charge instead. That would troll people even harder!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

14 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

There was no over-kneejerk reaction from the community. I think you are missing how many extremely knowledgeable and immersed players there are. Some might use a bit more colourful language, but it isn't that hard seeing what a "no-nerfed" Roar subsumation process would have led to.

And it is not the über-power in itself that is the problem, but the risk of (once again) producing a meta that 90% will use and that "blocks" all the other interesting and nifty combinations. In short: reducing Warframe to a few meta-memes on Youtube (that anyone can copy and use to beat anything) will destroy the gaming experience, which in turn destroys the game.

There are some game companies using an "from op to nerf"-cycle, in order to buff their own finances. Releasing content that is better than anything else, and then nerfing it once a large part of the community has bought it. DE has occasionally been accused of doing this, but I don't see it. While some "op" stuff gets released (and then nerfed) there is quite a lot of stuff that is simply "normal" on release, or the exact opposite (so subpowered that it gets buffed). And this "pre-nerf" further shows that DE not only cares about Warframe, but is quite able to identify a super-powercreep trap in advance.

I was going to comment seeing as I endured 10 pages of abuse on the announcement thread, arguing that certain things would be too powerful and lead to more segregation within the meta but honestly, you've summed it up perfectly with this.

The MR nerf on the otherhand, is just pathetic flip flopping from their tennocon announcement lol.

[killerJoke66]

17 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

 

There are some game companies using an "from op to nerf"-cycle, in order to buff their own finances. 

Even though its not the type of strategy that DE uses , those companies you probably speak of , compensate buff said items/heroes/champions or later straight buffing them to relevance to spice up the varience table , do you remember something that DE had nerfed and buffed/compensated later ? daggers , heavy swords or the nerfed aoe weapons received none whatsoever. tho thats not the topic. 

 

17 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

 

And it is not the über-power in itself that is the problem, but the risk of (once again) producing a meta that 90% will use and that "blocks" all the other interesting and nifty combinations.

People already use most efficent ways for credit/exp/resource/tridolon farming and they have their own meta and if you dont cater to their choice of relevance they dont accept you in their recruit group(as an example) .So again its not on DE but on the collective of playerbase playing the game indirectly creating meta on their own. 
 

[trst]

Ah yes I'm so glad we can have people complaining that DE "never" takes feedback while others complain about DE taking feedback.

People were, rightfully, concerned about the premise of adding certain abilities to any frame. As well DE is known for nerfing things that crowd out other options which was made thoroughly clear that abilities like Roar would by most/all parts of the community.

[0_The_F00l]

This was actually expected.

Only thing I am disappointed in is that they didn't mention this in the original notes thus building expectations, and the inevitable rage and salty as shown by the OP. 

 

 

[killerJoke66]

Do i really need to dig from an old post of someone else doing the math on how roar would be not so broken on a frame that has no damage buffing ability ? We already know we can't stack multiple on a single frame and on a personal note i value nidus larva 10x more than the roar .

Here is the base ability ; https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Roar 
You need 200%+ strenght to start to feel an impact and needingsome duration and efficeny along with it , calculate yourself , frames that most likely want to use it either wont have much strenght build path or lacking in build diversity to begin with .

and the cliche saying that youre probably tired to read ; what matters if mag can kill stuff 1-2 seconds faster in her little bubble or volt , he is already top dog at everything , you cant get better at that and he didnt need helminth system in the first place . For the poor frames like hydroid ; he  CAN NOT make use of roar  . 

On the other hand most frames i can think of want the nidus' larva and i can understand the nerf , though its funny i wont even put roar on anything ever . 

Does it even matter if imagining roar on chroma ? he already eats tridolons' limbs for breakfast , and most times without even any damage buffs people one shot even Hydrolist limbs without any buffers .. what are we even afraid of at this point , is what im wondering 

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

1 hour ago, killerJoke66 said:

Do i really need to dig from an old post of someone else doing the math on how roar would be not so broken on a frame that has no damage buffing ability ? We already know we can't stack multiple on a single frame and on a personal note i value nidus larva 10x more than the roar .

Here is the base ability ; https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Roar 
You need 200%+ strenght to start to feel an impact and needingsome duration and efficeny along with it , calculate yourself , frames that most likely want to use it either wont have much strenght build path or lacking in build diversity to begin with .

and the cliche saying that youre probably tired to read ; what matters if mag can kill stuff 1-2 seconds faster in her little bubble or volt , he is already top dog at everything , you cant get better at that and he didnt need helminth system in the first place . For the poor frames like hydroid ; he  CAN NOT make use of roar  . 

On the other hand most frames i can think of want the nidus' larva and i can understand the nerf , though its funny i wont even put roar on anything ever . 

Does it even matter if imagining roar on chroma ? he already eats tridolons' limbs for breakfast , and most times without even any damage buffs people one shot even Hydrolist limbs without any buffers .. what are we even afraid of at this point , is what im wondering 

If the threads are any indication,

1) losing a warframes "identity" whatever that means

2) the system affecting the lore like this games story is complete.

3) the meta

4) random ass concerns that dnt make sense in the grand scheme of things.

Honestly reading through some of topics made me feel like a bunch of karens had suddenly started playing warframe 

[killerJoke66]

1 hour ago, (PS4)NeunDrachen said:

If the threads are any indication,

1) losing a warframes "identity" whatever that means

2) the system affecting the lore like this games story is complete.

3) the meta

4) random ass concerns that dnt make sense in the grand scheme of things.

Honestly reading through some of topics made me feel like a bunch of karens had suddenly started playing warframe 

the best part i like is they whining about Nyx losing her identity as if she had one .. she confuses enemies i guess ,

.. honestly who even uses her 1 , i read a post about that yesterday or something

[killerJoke66]

also about the 'nyx's identity' , if mind control is her identity then trinity levitating enemies whenever she wants and extracting #*!% ton of energy out of them should be called abusage 😆

Like what identity they be talking about , ' mind control ' my arse , also no ones gonna subsume her anyways

[Kaotyke]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This was actually expected.

Only thing I am disappointed in is that they didn't mention this in the original notes thus building expectations, and the inevitable rage and salty as shown by the OP. 

 

 

You mean when Pablo mentioned that "not all abilities will be 1:1" and Rebecca saying in the OP of the Devworkshop that "this is subject to change before launch"?

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Blaming the community for DE's own poor mishandling is probably the most interesting take i've seen.

It strikes me as odd to balance these abilities specifically.  It's like they believe that they would work on every frame.  It's like they didn't sit there and think that a frame that doesn't dump into duration and strength wouldn't grab roar.  Either the devs are actually that out of touch with their own game or it's them openly admitting that the ability by it's design is problematic.

If the latter is the case then one would question why DE even decided to allow it to be subsumed.  Sorry but you're not going to convince me that DE actually thought out what they were doing with their idea or that their reaction to people's hype for abilities was a good choice.  They could have done more.  But more is more effort.  And DE doesn't like to ship good content.  They just like putting out new content and expect us to do the leg work for them.

[Hokibukisa]

All these feinting dramaqueens... we’re going to need more couches.

seeing all these babies upset about ability tweaks they haven’t even seen the values for yet... it makes me hope DE doesn’t read the forums cause this is just pathetic minging.

[Serafim_94]

Yep. A well-needed change. Well-timed one too, because people didn't burn their frames for those abilities yet. Imagine the salt otherwise.

The harder people will cry about it, the more evidence will there be that nerfs were necessary.

[Fl_3]

2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

You mean when Pablo mentioned that "not all abilities will be 1:1" and Rebecca saying in the OP of the Devworkshop that "this is subject to change before launch"?

 

I can't understand why people are calling nerf on something that's technically still in its testing phase. If this had happened after it's release then yes nerf, and one one that was needed to keep some frames viable in the game (Rhino/Valkyr and other frames whose kit is pretty much 1 button press).

But, then again IT IS pretty obvious from what's been said in streams and on this very forum that some of the powers will be weaker than they are on the original frame, and, this is exactly how it should be.

There are many things I don't see eye to eye on with DE, Kuva Liches and their lazy implementation, their flat refusal to go back and finish older content are two examples. This change I'm perfectly happy with.

Good move DE, well played!

[(PSN)Yggranya]

4 hours ago, killerJoke66 said:

After the first anouncement came casuals

First post and the people are already blaming the "casuals". Ahahahahahahaha!

If someone sees someone blaming the "elitists" quote my post to let me know, so i can laugh at that too. It really is like clockwork.

[Kaotyke]

3 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

There are many things I don't see eye to eye on with DE, Kuva Liches and their lazy implementation, their flat refusal to go back and finish older content are two examples. This change I'm perfectly happy with.

Remember, the Helminth System will be something added and then forgotten about. Never mind the fact that that room has been there for literal years without any use aside from poping cysts. That last one means nothing. Nuh nuh. No ser.

[Hokibukisa]

3 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

I can't understand why people are calling nerf on something that's technically still in its testing phase.

They made mental investments into builds they are interested in trying out (and more than likely will still work just fine)

Its basically a nerf to their fantasy only, and this kind of minging I hope DE realizes its just a few handfuls of babies, and not representative of everyone.

Cause if it were, the bigger "nerf" would be that DE just not give us the level of details of their plans ahead of time until they are fully solidified. (and I appreciate the give and take)

[0_The_F00l]

17 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

You mean when Pablo mentioned that "not all abilities will be 1:1" and Rebecca saying in the OP of the Devworkshop that "this is subject to change before launch"?

 

Yes, because they clearly mentioned some abilities would have changes done  to them in the comments itself. 

It is the reason for the salt cause the info is not where it's easily observed. 

Don't get me wrong, I have issues with the timing (making changes less than a week before launch? Did they not think this would be very preferred ability?) and not the actual change.