Its not TOO late for a massive overhaul of all Skills , That's what you should have gone trough before releasing hell minth

[TamePingu]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

After the Helminth system was announced, there was a big thread with a longer discussion about which skill with an Augment that gives a +100% damage of one element was the best, because there is a variety of those to choose from. The release of the ability list rendered that discussion moot. The best damage buff was Roar, period. Not because the other skills are useless, but because Roar is simply overwhelmingly better than all of them.

Oh, I wasn't saying that roar being way more powerfull than other dmg buff abilities (and therefore being the default choice) isn't a problem, i was saying that it wasn't the biggest problem. For example: if they buffed the other dmg buff abilities to the point they compete with roar, then the forum thread is alive again and you can discuss away; it also has the benefit of making the frames that have that ability "better".

Another example that's commonly broght up is decoy. Why would you use this if resonator exists?

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb TamePingu:

Oh, I wasn't saying that roar being way more powerfull than other dmg buff abilities (and therefore being the default choice) isn't a problem, i was saying that it wasn't the biggest problem. For example: if they buffed the other dmg buff abilities to the point they compete with roar, then the forum thread is alive again and you can discuss away; it also has the benefit of making the frames that have that ability "better".

Another example that's commonly broght up is decoy. Why would you use this if resonator exists?

Problem: Roar is too strong when being subsumed.

DE solution: Nerf Roar when being subsumed.

Proposed solution by forum geniuses: Overhaul all abilities in the entire game.

[TamePingu]

Just now, Krankbert said:

Problem: Roar is too strong when being subsumed.

DE solution: Nerf Roar when being subsumed.

Proposed solution by forum geniuses: Overhaul all abilities in the entire game.

If you nerf one ability, that's a fast any easy fix/solution, sure. But the rsults are: everyone still uses it or no one uses it.

If you go the long route and do what the "Proposed solution by forum geniuses" is and "Overhaul all abilities in the entire game" thet the results are that now you have many more viable abilities that compete with roar, rather than roar being the default choice for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase.

Diversity is why they introduced this system right?

[Krankbert]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb TamePingu:

If you nerf one ability, that's a fast any easy fix/solution, sure. But the rsults are: everyone still uses it or no one uses it.

Did you ever hear the tale of Goldilocks and the three bears?

[TamePingu]

12 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Did you ever hear the tale of Goldilocks and the three bears?

Your point being that there's a nerf that's precisely the amount that will make the ability neither OP or useless? Perhaps.

So you nerfed roar now "just right". You still ever gonna use decoy?

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb TamePingu:

Your point being that there's a nerf that's precisely the amount that will make the ability neither OP or useless? Perhaps.

So you nerfed roar now "just right". You still ever gonna use decoy?

If they didn't nerf roar now. You ever gonna use decoy?

[TamePingu]

Just now, Krankbert said:

If they didn't nerf roar now. You ever gonna use decoy?

That's my point. Rework decoy, and many others.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb TamePingu:

That's my point. Rework decoy, and many others.

And when (notice how I'm saying when and not if) one of those turns out too strong, then what? Overhaul everything again?

[TamePingu]

Just now, Krankbert said:

And when (notice how I'm saying when and not if) one of those turns out too strong, then what? Overhaul everything again?

Decoy and resonator are supposed to achieve the same thing, but it's obvious that one is superior to the other. Both are subsumable. If you want to achieve what these abilities offer and subsume one of them; why would you choose decoy? What is the solution? Nerf resonator or buff decoy?

What do you call a buff, debuff and change to a single WFability, like well of life? What do you call it if it is done to a whole frame, like ember? What do you call if if it is done to a lot more frames? I'd call it a rework.

If you have a frame that has an ability that way to OP then yes, by all means nerf it.

If you have a frame that uses only one ability most of the time (nekros) then by all means, rework the frame.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb TamePingu:

If you have a frame that has an ability that way to OP then yes, by all means nerf it.

Alright, that's settled then. I'm glad you agree with the Roar nerf.

[TamePingu]

2 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Alright, that's settled then. I'm glad you agree with the Roar nerf.

I always have been, I just said that it isn't the only problem, nor the biggets one.

1 hour ago, TamePingu said:

If there is such a thing as a "useless skill" on a warframe then THAT'S the primary problem, not that the other one is OP.

[Krankbert]

Oh. So you just argued against the nerf on the basis that the problem it adresses isn't your pet peeve. Alright then.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

4 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Oh. So you just argued against the nerf on the basis that the problem it adresses isn't your pet peeve. Alright then.

ur being extra, if roar only gave 20% more damage over it curent 300% that i can give people will still chose it 100% of the time on a frame that uses power str 

no nurf will make people chose anything els if everything els is still worse, the solution was to swap it for another power

go troll on a different forum 

also can we get hydroid and valkyr reworked?