Let warframe be what it wants to be

[MouadSaqui]

Listen, here is what actually happened, DE Megan drops a tweet, people read the news, then people go to youtube watch their favorite Ex warframe partner content creator saying thier opinion, people come in the forums saying the same opinions, they themselves dont realize its not theirs... okey lets disscuss the "nerf" :

guys for real, what did you expect for example ? the helminth system itself could potentially break the game if not balanced, and I've seen you people freak out about that just a week ago, and now... we are talking about Nerfs, I mean... can we at least wait until the update drops ? and for those who are saying DE lied to us about it being for advanced players, Come on.. for a new player to get the system they need to rank up to MR8, and Rank 3 in the entrati syndicate, for them being "newbies" I dont think they have the necessary resources to achieve what a veteran could achieve the first week, so yeah you can relax now, and to be honest, if I were you I would probably care more about the Necramechs, I don't know why people don't seem to be excited about it.... the same people that got excited over space ships in warframe... didn't notice this game has mech suits now, unbelievable ! 

another thing I want to mention is the salty behavior of some members aaaand moderators, please ... grow up, let this game be what it wants to be. 

Thaank you.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Well said buddy, wait and see approach is always best especially when we are not privey to all inside infomation that is behind said changes and what the changes will actually be.

[0_The_F00l]

11 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

, if I were you I would probably care more about the Necramechs, I don't know why people don't seem to be excited about it.... the same people that got excited over space ships in warframe... didn't notice this game has mech suits now, unbelievable ! 

I don't have a problem with the rest of your comments, but the quoted part is pretty obvious. 

The mechs are expected to be modular, they are only useable on open worlds, they are just another archwing /k drive , and the experience with those two has been rather meh. 

The railjack too was good in the beginning but then it's just the same thing with no real purpose after doing it once. 

Sure they could turn it around and make it useable everywhere, but I am personally a bit fatigued with new mechanics that are limited in their scope or utility to a very narrow range and can't build up the hype for it. 

[Drachnyn]

The issue i have with this is that some of the more useless abilities didnt get further buffs like they said they would. We got changes to well of life and turbulence but that's about it. The nerfs are made to prevent those 6 abilities from being the overwhelming choice but couldnt that have also been done through buffing the more useless ones? Ice wave is redundent even within frost's kit, decoy does legit nothing, desiccation is kinda useless when radial blind is in the pool. 

Without buffs to the weaker abilities this feels a bit like a kneejerk reaction and that they didnt quite know what they were doing when making the first list.

I think fine tuning abilities for subsume is not a bad idea but only nerfing what they consider the top end leaves a bad taste. I wouldnt want DE to just straight up remove the ability from subsume when there can be another way. We are missing numbers on the nerfs (I wish they would have given us those as well because that adds another layer of uncertainty) but I suspect roar and eclipse will still be very powerful choices just by how those abilities work. 

Nidus larva is a dangerous thing to nerf because if its range gets nerfed too much it suddenly becomes useless and the base range is already only 12m. I feel like many people forget about that and that not every frame could afford to build so much range that larva would be broken.

The wording on defy doesnt really make sense because the ability is already capped. I suspect they meant a lower cap but it's difficult to say if this ability will fall into garbage tier when it doesnt give you enough armor to make a difference.

[Genitive]

I think that nerfing some abilities before the update is better than allowing players to use very powerful ones for months and then nerfed them, after people invested time and resources. We have seen this happen many times.

They will adjust everything after the update has been dropped, anyway.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

29 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

for those who are saying DE lied to us about it being for advanced players, Come on.. for a new player to get the system they need to rank up to MR8, and Rank 3 in the entrati syndicate, for them being "newbies" I dont think they have the necessary resources to achieve what a veteran could achieve the first week,

it's not about how fast they can achieve Helminth Access: of course an MR8 who grinds their nuts off will get there quicker than an MR28 who plays casually. the reason people are miffed is because of the dishonesty; they explicitly stated the system was for veteran players, then after people got hyped for it, they pulled a U-turn. now this isn't the first time DE have lied to us, but that doesn't make it OK either. if they decided from the start to make it accessible, it wouldn't have been so bad. now though, whenever DE mentions making something "for veterans", we won't be able to believe them, because they've lied before. one lie is all it takes to destroy any trust.

35 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

if I were you I would probably care more about the Necramechs, I don't know why people don't seem to be excited about it.... the same people that got excited over space ships in warframe... didn't notice this game has mech suits now, unbelievable ! 

some people are excited about the Necramechs, but let's be real:

- as enemies/bosses, they look like they could be more bullet sponges. the one in the Demo was ~level 35 IIRC and they were barely making a dent with a Corinth Prime.

- as modular, usable mechs, they will likely only be effective at lower levels. you can't have them be insanely powerful, because that would make the warframes redundant. they seem to have their own abilities, but I'll be very suprised if they aren't just straight up recycled warframe abilities with neutered stats and/or are actually any good.

- as transport.. well, heavy mechs aren't renowned for their speed, and they sure as hell aren't gonna outrun an Archwing.

their visual design is great though, and I love the concept of a corpse-driven power armour, makes you wonder if that somehow inspired the creation of transference (because if dead people can power stuff, imagine what a Live person can do!). but honestly, I don't expect them to be much more than a novelty that just gets used when the Bounties start to drag.

 

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

it's not about how fast they can achieve Helminth Access: of course an MR8 who grinds their nuts off will get there quicker than an MR28 who plays casually. the reason people are miffed is because of the dishonesty; they explicitly stated the system was for veteran players, then after people got hyped for it, they pulled a U-turn. now this isn't the first time DE have lied to us, but that doesn't make it OK either. if they decided from the start to make it accessible, it wouldn't have been so bad. now though, whenever DE mentions making something "for veterans", we won't be able to believe them, because they've lied before. one lie is all it takes to destroy any trust.

But is a mr 15 player a veteran at the game? The ones I know sure as hell arent. I dont think there is much causation between MR and being a veteran. The resource grind associated with the system is a far better veteran check imo.

[844448]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

it's not about how fast they can achieve Helminth Access: of course an MR8 who grinds their nuts off will get there quicker than an MR28 who plays casually. the reason people are miffed is because of the dishonesty; they explicitly stated the system was for veteran players, then after people got hyped for it, they pulled a U-turn. now this isn't the first time DE have lied to us, but that doesn't make it OK either. if they decided from the start to make it accessible, it wouldn't have been so bad. now though, whenever DE mentions making something "for veterans", we won't be able to believe them, because they've lied before. one lie is all it takes to destroy any trust.

And why do you think this happens if not because this kind of player?

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

But is a mr 15 player a veteran at the game? The ones I know sure as hell arent. I dont think there is much causation between MR and being a veteran. The resource grind associated with the system is a far better veteran check imo.

there's more causation between an MR15 knowing what they are doing, than an MR8 knowing what they are doing. that is to say, an MR15 is more likely to know what they are doing. I'm well aware MR doesn't equal skill, but DE have opened up a system to newbies that they may not take the time to understand and end up losing a frame as a result.

[Zi-Sui]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

it's not about how fast they can achieve Helminth Access: of course an MR8 who grinds their nuts off will get there quicker than an MR28 who plays casually. the reason people are miffed is because of the dishonesty; they explicitly stated the system was for veteran players, then after people got hyped for it, they pulled a U-turn. now this isn't the first time DE have lied to us, but that doesn't make it OK either. if they decided from the start to make it accessible, it wouldn't have been so bad. now though, whenever DE mentions making something "for veterans", we won't be able to believe them, because they've lied before. one lie is all it takes to destroy any trust.

 

We live in a world where people and corporations (groups of people with shared interest) can change their minds and change direction from what they had previously. Don't we?

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

there's more causation between an MR15 knowing what they are doing, than an MR8 knowing what they are doing. that is to say, an MR15 is more likely to know what they are doing. I'm well aware MR doesn't equal skill, but DE have opened up a system to newbies that they may not take the time to understand and end up losing a frame as a result.

There might very well be correlation but there is no causation. I find this idea of a newbie throwing away their frame without knowing what they are doing a bit strange because the system very clearly tells you what happens and you need to specifically confirm the choice, on top of having a 23h time period where you can reverse it. It's easier for a new player to sell their frames for credits than putting it into the helminth system.

[MasterBurik]

7 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Nidus larva is a dangerous thing to nerf because if its range gets nerfed too much it suddenly becomes useless and the base range is already only 12m. I feel like many people forget about that and that not every frame could afford to build so much range that larva would be broken.

I've got an old table of Larva radii that may help provide a general idea of possible reduction numbers DE might select:

Spoiler

	Larva Radius
Power Range	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3
100% (Base)	8m	9m	10m	12m
115% (Drift)	9.2m	10.35m	11.5m	13.8m
130% (Augur)	10.4m	11.7m	13m	15.6m
145% (Stretch)	11.6m	13.05m	14.5m	17.4m
160% (Stretch/Drift)	12.8m	14.4m	16m	19.2m
175% (Stretch/Augur)	14m	15.75m	17.5m	21m
190% (Overextended)	15.2m	17.1m	19m	22.8m
205% (Over/Drift)	16.4m	18.45m	20.5m	24.6m
220% (Over/Augur)	17.6m	19.8m	22m	26.4m
235% (Over/Stretch)	18.8m	21.15m	23.5m	28.2m
250% (Over/Stretch/Drift)	20m	22.5m	25m	30m
265% (Over/Stretch/Augur)	21.2m	23.85m	26.5m	31.8m
280% (All Four)	22.4m	25.2m	28m	33.6m

 

In case anyone forgot (or is unaware) of what a "Radius" is:

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 minutes ago, SolitaryMan7 said:

We live in a world where people and corporations (groups of people with shared interest) can change their minds and change direction from what they had previously. Don't we?

yes we do, and I hate it. I'm not someone who hangs on every word a company says, and I know how disingenuous companies can be, it's just that DE usually behaves themselves and doesn't rank so highly among them. I'll admit I banked a little on DE, let my guard down. I should have known better, clearly.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Joke's on you! I came here with my own trashy opinions after I heard the thread was updated!

[Tsoe]

no one know what the game want to be , not even developpers

 

the game have his own agenda

[Genitive]

13 minutes ago, Tsoe said:

no one know what the game want to be , not even developpers

 

the game have his own agenda

That's why I like it.

[Marine027]

I love them for there trying a lot but, DE overdoes it sadly, a game needs a concept, you can't jsut keep shoving in new things that not fit the game at worse, imagine playing the Witcher or so and suddenly you get a car race in it.

They clearly have no focus and jump on trends and shove in to much things at once instead of wroking and evolving things they have.

Don't get me wrong, as said i love them but, look at there slogan, Ninjas play free, nothing we goten lately says Ninjas anymore, yes a mere slogan but this is just a basic example now.

DE trys way to much in to short time for there own good, more content with different goals and gameplay with the same sized team and at the moment, with Covid, limited acces to there workplace on top. It needsa clear goal by now and you cna't leave a game in Beta so long and use this as excuse.

I love the game and try to keep love it but alot i ignore by now, but it is simply way to overdone by now, not having an identity anymore, its biggest problem.

[brasteir]

Nah I'm going to rack up 6k posts because I can't take a hint that maybe this game isn't for me. 

[GeorgeFernell]

Why are we not excited for necramechs?

Maybe because all of the "transport-damaging" equipment (Grineer stationary turrets, flying PoE one man craft, Railjack captures ships) so far in the game have been totally useless compared with ANY tenno weapon?

What makes you think it will be any different!

[--N0X--]

"It" doesn't want to be anything, it is an inanimate object. If currents trends continue though the people who do decide what "Warframe wants to be" will make it dead.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Some people want to tear the game down because people are actually having fun and growing with the game instead of joining their misery party and hating everything done to it, I agree lol.

[Yakhul]

@MouadSaqui well said mate. You hit the nail in so many topics with very few words. 

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

I wouldn't say Warframe evolves, because I feel it would have to evolve around something specific in order to have a purpose. I think they just throw random ideas at us and see what sticks. This update will try to grab at old players to come back for something "new" and "refreshing". Will it hold them, I cannot say. I jumped back on for first time since April to see what I have missed, but I don't have high expectations that it will keep me around for very long before I take another "break".

 

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, Genitive said:

That's why I like it.

i wouldnt be here still if WF was still just new tilesets, weapons, and frames. WF being fluid is its greatest strength. Thats not a criticism at all. Play Path of Exile if you want a game that always "more of the same" (PoE is stil a great game though)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

If the system only gives out garbage abilities then there’s absolutely zero incentive to ever engage with it.

The Helminth system needs to have a bunch of good, compelling abilities in order for it to succeed. Nerfing the choices people were excited to try out doesn’t make the system better. It makes it worse.