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Still Excited for Subsuming?


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4 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Most of the useless garbage will still be better because at least there will be a synergy or two within the kit.

The devs are nerfing all the stuff that either has synergy outside its original kit, or just does what it does well independently of the rest of the kit. That's the only stuff that was ever going to be worth using in the Helminth system. Devs don't know how their own game works, but I sure seem to know how the devs work: I predicted the system was going to be useless for this exact reason, and they're going out of their way to ensure that's the case by snuffing out the few abilities that might actually stand above the rest.

I'm not excited for anything they're doing now.

Ah yes the good ol " I know more than the actual developers" trope and "de doesnt know how their game works" 

So because a few powerful abilities get nerfed (no numbers shown yet) de is all of a sudden trying to kill their game and the helminth system is dead blah blah blah

 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

 

Ah yes the good ol " I know more than the actual developers" trope and "de doesnt know how their game works" 

So because a few powerful abilities get nerfed (no numbers shown yet) de is all of a sudden trying to kill their game and the helminth system is dead blah blah blah

 

You are saying nothing of use, and you are now following me between threads. Welcome to the ignore list.

Edited by XaoGarrent
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7 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

"I guess I can replace useless garbage with something I might actually use."

It was always that. You think Inaros or Hydroid players aren't salivating at this still?

Protea with Larva, Garuda with Breach Surge, Trinity with Tesla Bank, Rhino with Helminith Strength, Titania with Firewalker, Volt with Helminith Speed. None of the really exiting stuff was really nerfed.

Decoy, Desication or Mind Control were always bad and this changed nothing. Only changing them like Trinity's or Zephyr's could've earned some glances or flat out giving other abillities instead.

Edited by T-Shark69
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31 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

subsequently pull a pre-release nerf.

That is just such a silly statement. They cant nerf things that are still a work in progress. They've also posted the obvious "subject to change" in their workshop. The way these abilities will work in the system, it is a good idea to reduce the power of them in the system when used on other frames. We however cannot call it a nerf since it is a seperate skill from the original, which on its own will stay as is on the frames they belong to. The also havent overpromised anything with Helminth, since what we've seen is a simple workshop post that was stated as subject to change.

If you take workshops as equals to patch notes you only have yourself to blame. Be happy Roar and the other skills werent just simply removed. They'll still be good on certain frames and builds, since they will be straight up massive upgrades even at lower values compared to what the kit would be without them.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

That is just such a silly statement. They cant nerf things that are still a work in progress. They've also posted the obvious "subject to change" in their workshop. The way these abilities will work in the system, it is a good idea to reduce the power of them in the system when used on other frames. We however cannot call it a nerf since it is a seperate skill from the original, which on its own will stay as is on the frames they belong to. The also havent overpromised anything with Helminth, since what we've seen is a simple workshop post that was stated as subject to change.

If you take workshops as equals to patch notes you only have yourself to blame. Be happy Roar and the other skills werent just simply removed. They'll still be good on certain frames and builds, since they will be straight up massive upgrades even at lower values compared to what the kit would be without them.

I know it's not AS big of a drop down as the last 2 years of Tennocons, but at the very core i'm just angry at myself for falling for the hype machine for a third year in a row. The last time they delivered on a big thing like this was 2015 when i met Steve in a german beer garden at TennoVIP and he went on a drunk ramble about how we wouldn't believe how good the update they were going to ship was going to be - and i gotta say considering what The Second Dream delivered, THAT was the scale of promise to make and subsequently overperform on. Made in front of 80 people, not 250k. Delivered on as a passion project with a meaningful reward system behind it as well.

I guess i'll just stop myself from watching Tennocon 2021 so i don't allow myself to get overhyped again. I lowkey still want the more complex railjack systems as they were originally shown, and the original setting as well ^^

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb JackHargreav:

Well this time it was more of the player base's fault that we got nerfs.

But I'm still excited since I wanted the Cc abilities. And that's what I will get. So I'm happy with the system.

The issue is the cc abilities I'm excited for already have mediocre range.. and thanks to the community, I'm 100% sure de will slap the "less effective than.." nerf on basically all other abilities.

I'm not happy about that, at all..

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TBH I wasn't that excited about it to begin with. Now, even less so.

I knew there was a reason they were giving frames away in the livestreams. Now I know what the reason is. They're afraid that otherwise no one will bother with subsuming.

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When I first saw the new Helmith system during Tennocon I thought it looked interesting. I also thought that it was going to be very problematic due to abilities being so unbalanced. Yet for anything else to do, I have been preparing as many others have been. I have been collecting all of the frame parts, but I haven't built a single frame yet.


Since there will obviously be after launch nerfs I have been planning on waiting to see how things pan out before I commit to using what looks to be a lot of my resources.


However, as I have no interest in putting watered down abilities on any of my frames I think that I am going to just take a pass on Helmith until their done using everyone else as testers.

Edited by MacKerris
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vor 1 Minute schrieb (XB1)TyeGoo:

The issue is the cc abilities I'm excited for already have mediocre range.. and thanks to the community, I'm 100% sure de will slap the "less effective than.." nerf on basically all other abilities.

I'm not happy about that, at all..

We don't have confirmed nerfs on Ivara or Volt and Oberons Augments YET so those could still be decent upgrades for a lot of frames. If they cut the augments i guess i can still use Ivara on my Mesa unless they change her ability to Navigator 😆

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19 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

I know it's not AS big of a drop down as the last 2 years of Tennocons, but at the very core i'm just angry at myself for falling for the hype machine for a third year in a row. The last time they delivered on a big thing like this was 2015 when i met Steve in a german beer garden at TennoVIP and he went on a drunk ramble about how we wouldn't believe how good the update they were going to ship was going to be - and i gotta say considering what The Second Dream delivered, THAT was the scale of promise to make and subsequently overperform on. Made in front of 80 people, not 250k. Delivered on as a passion project with a meaningful reward system behind it as well.

I guess i'll just stop myself from watching Tennocon 2021 so i don't allow myself to get overhyped again. I lowkey still want the more complex railjack systems as they were originally shown, and the original setting as well ^^

But there is nothing that has been hypeed which has also been removed from Deimos. The only change is to a few specific subsumes, which were clearly stated to be bound by change in the workshop. What part of tennocon 2020 is missing from the upcoming Deimos in your opinion?

Edited by SneakyErvin
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What's the point of nuking what's popular?  All that ends up creating is secrecy and hiding in the crowd.  No one is going to want to share their builds or hard work because if its "OP" ( a worthless concept in a game about power fantasy) then its going to get nerfed.  S rank is going to disapear and people will pretend everything is A rank just to keep the devs from destroying what we enjoy.  Enjoy the Cold War against your fanbase DE, and remember you started it.

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22 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

The issue is the cc abilities I'm excited for already have mediocre range.. and thanks to the community, I'm 100% sure de will slap the "less effective than.." nerf on basically all other abilities.

I'm not happy about that, at all..

Maybe the community will be stupid enough again to use two of the most "useful" and the actual good abilities will not get nerfed.

At least I'm willing to bet that most of the community will slap on roar or eclipse because "duuuuh moaore damage means, me win, enemy loose".

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Everyone is in such an outrage over the nerfs and now saying the system is dead on arrival but all they mention is the subsumed abilities. Its like everyone forgot that Helminth Unique Abilities are coming as well. Sure half of them will be trash as per DE's trend but that trend also includes one or two which will be good or broken beyond belief.

Not to mention they did not reveal the scope of the nerfs, they may all still be well worth using.

Ignoring Warcry ATK SPD increase it still has the armor increase component which apparently wont be touched and an aoe slow. Protea's Dispensers currently sit at 25s base, if its still 15 or 20s, its still perfectly usable. Even if Defy Gets a max 1000 armor cap down from 1500 its still 1000 armor plus Invulnerability window plus aoe attack on any frame, which is alot. Nidus Larva still picks up everything within its radius, and the nerf can only be to 10 or 8 meters. with any high range frame that is still very good. Not mentioning rhino or mirage as i did not care about those before anyway.

Cherry on top, those are the only ones getting nerfed apparently. Pull is still highly usable and cheap CC on top of a farmers dream, Breach Surge on an high range frame with the corresponding weapon is still very good, Volt and Oberon still provide massive dmg with augments, Well of Life is actually a very nice heal for Frames that need it, plus being single target removal for a time. Molt with Augment still a decent heal. Reave still provides Invulnerabiltiy with health and shield regen. Null Star with high duration still provides 90% DR. Fire Walker will be a gauss and volt wet dream. Ensnare, Desication, Lull, Radial Blind and Petrify are all still GREAT CC option. Condemn and Pillage will still be great for Shield Frames. And Finally Shurikens are still instant armor removal plus Ninja Shurikens for everyone so win win.

So yeah OP, i am still very much eagerly awaiting everything Heart of Deimos 🙂

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Jukantos:

And at that point showing off big annual demos to 250k+ viewers and not delivering on it is exactly why i slammed it as a Conjob, false advertising, call it whatever you want. Deliberately making "reveal" presentations of stuff you don't deliver is not okay. Fortuna was saved by excellent lore, music, character writing and landscape. Railjack was not saved by its beautiful skyboxes because of just how utterly broken it was. The Old Blood was SO far away from the original vision i don't even think you can still call it a kingpin system, it's a "Weapon farm with 4 hours of extra high level missions pressing X" system.

I'm now very very worried HoD is going to be more Old Blood or Railjack levels of "not as shown" than Fortuna levels of "not as shown". Doesn't mean i think it will have NO good aspects, i'm still 100% convinced i'll love the lore, landscape and new enemies. But how long is that going to keep me interested it their biggest reward structure reveal EVER just got gutted before it even released?

For a demo that set out to NOT overpromise, this was a failure already.

And this is the gaming community today in a nutshell, overhyped for big trailers not showign actual gameplay, fancy effects adn graphcis with bombastic soundtrack at best.

I sull agree on this becaue this is what i all comes down to today, it is no suprise how EA and Ubisoft make tons of money if people have this low expectations and and take everythign as given today, and "happy to have at least anything then nothing" mentallity basically. This is the main problem today on top of people stopepd playign games for fun and simple progress, now it needs endcontent on every cornern and shiny rewards, while the game itself, the way to the end is mediocore and suffers more and more, even more so in this case with trying to adjsut it to all gamers. Old and new, veteran or casuals.

I prefer a rather casual gaems iwth certain endgame stuff like raids i can simply ignore without it affecting my gamepaly or story progress, while most raids are just extra challange without lore much at least not main lore normally and at best i can do it in a story mode or when it is old so i can skip it with good gear or so, etc.

This here is just a mess, antoher system made for all players, no balance and just existing as shortcut to not rework things anymore in my eyes, on top of filler due Duvari not heard of anymore on top of the virus not acces to there office to work properly.

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55 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

It was always that. You think Inaros or Hydroid players aren't salivating at this still?

Protea with Larva, Garuda with Breach Surge, Trinity with Tesla Bank, Rhino with Helminith Strength, Titania with Firewalker, Volt with Helminith Speed. None of the really exiting stuff was really nerfed.

Decoy, Desication or Mind Control were always bad and this changed nothing. Only changing them like Trinity's or Zephyr's could've earned some glances or flat out giving other abillities instead.

Yep, all of the this. I'm as excited as ever for the system. Protea with Molt, Wukong with Radial Blind, and even Wisp with a presumably less ridonk Roar. I don't know why I'm only replacing 4s, but there sure are a lot of useless 4s.

I haven't decided on Nova's 2. Mag will get Marked for Death as her 1 if it's good and works well with Magnetize.

I don't know where Breach Surge is going, but it's going to be amazing. Vauban probably?

So many options for rounding out frames and giving them a bit more to work with, or amplifying aspects they already have. It's just going to be such a fun process of working these things out.

Edited by CopperBezel
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9 hours ago, wtflag said:

We don't know the numbers anyway.

It could just be a 20% to 30% reduction on the few OP ones. The rest of the skills, some of which are good, are still there.

In any case, having a useful skill is better than a useless one.

People aren’t necessarily outraged over the fact that they nerfed the abilities in question because they were too powerful. It’s more of the fact that they did it as a pathetic attempt to try and make useless abilities useful by doing absolutely nothing to them and making good abilities mediocre at best

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10 hours ago, wtflag said:

We don't know the numbers anyway.

It could just be a 20% to 30% reduction on the few OP ones. The rest of the skills, some of which are good, are still there.

In any case, having a useful skill is better than a useless one.

That doesn’t make the awful abilities any more compelling. It just makes the Helminth system as a whole less compelling. Especially if DEs mindset for balancing it is going to be “If it’s popular, nerf it”. Because that means any fun option that pops up is going to be nerfed if it gets used too much.

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To be honest I would've been happy even if there was none of these damage boosting abilities, because while useful they are also quite boring. 

So as long as I can get rid of some of those abilities I never use anywhere, and replace with something even mildly useful or "fun" ability, Im still interested. 

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