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Hot take: it makes zero sense to use the most OP loadouts/builds/frames/rivens/arcanes imaginable and then turn around and complain that warframe is too easy or we're too powerful.


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8 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Honestly it does. Have a good roll x or all of the strongest items across other MMOs or rpgs or looter shooters dosent necessitate the game being easy a bore or any of the aforementioned terms.

It does mean the game is still way freakin' easier though. If that then makes the game boring is subjective to each person.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But getting mad at a meta freak for playing the game and telling them to nerf themselves makes no true sense either.

I'm not telling them to nerf themselves. All I'm saying is they should stop being hypocrites and acting like them being such tryhards isn't part of their problem. They've made their own bed and now they don't wanna lie in it.

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13 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

It does mean the game is still way freakin' easier though. If that then makes the game boring is subjective to each person.

I'm not telling them to nerf themselves. All I'm saying is they should stop being hypocrites and acting like them being such tryhards isn't part of their problem. They've made their own bed and now they don't wanna lie in it.

In a game like Warframe, that has a coreloop that rewards efficiency and optimization, it does seem a little odd to be mad at players for leaning into that.

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57 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

It does mean the game is still way freakin' easier though. If that then makes the game boring is subjective to each person.

I'm not telling them to nerf themselves. All I'm saying is they should stop being hypocrites and acting like them being such tryhards isn't part of their problem. They've made their own bed and now they don't wanna lie in it.

The difficulty is dependent on the players actions true but also by the development and implantation in game. I agree on the term of subjectivity however.

the thing is. Being a “tryhard” isn’t part of the problem as much as lack of proper game balance on des end. The game by design is for you to get the strongest things. Players shouldn’t be punished for doing it and definitely not outcasted by fellow players on this topic. In regards to them making their bed and lying it it I don’t agree because they are just playing the game like everyone else

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2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

At this point in warframe even without the most meta builds the game is amazingly easy and provides little to no sense of progression imo. The plateau for warframe profession flatlined many updates Ago. And I feel like that’s whats another major factor In The decline and the divide from the playerbase. 

I know. I just get really annoyed when someones like "oh the new content is not hard I had no problem with" and then when you ask them what they used its like a spore build saryn with the ignis wraith and a "god tier" riven. and then they say that the content should be made hard enough that you need gear like that to be able to do it.

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1 hour ago, Miser_able said:

I know. I just get really annoyed when someones like "oh the new content is not hard I had no problem with" and then when you ask them what they used its like a spore build saryn with the ignis wraith and a "god tier" riven. and then they say that the content should be made hard enough that you need gear like that to be able to do it.

That’s kinda the issue honestly. I do feel like certain frames should be able to have an easier time with certain mission types but every frame should be able to achieve success. Granted success shouldn’t be as easy as everything else. And personally I don’t see that in wf. The only instances i see this in are orb fights and caps and even then it’s only a niche of frames that can participate in such. Warframe and balance are in a interesting spot and to say the least it’s gonna b hard to get out of being that they have such a horrible track record and fail to  hit the mark on things like this so often 

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Yes thank you I totally agree. I strongly disagree with the side the whines about being to powerful and wanting nerfs. If I have great mods on a weak gun and worked and farmed to get them on my warframe and weapons then I believe I should op af and be able to kill high level mobes of enemies.

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15 minutes ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

 If I have great mods on a weak gun and worked and farmed to get them on my warframe and weapons then I believe I should op af and be able to kill high level mobes of enemies.

In general though in about 60+% of the time those weak weapons are still weak and the stronger weapons are still outperforming such

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I've been saying this forever. 

The game is Sooo Easy, Until it's not. Then it's Unfair, Until it's Easy. (Source: Every Elitist ever)

*See Wolf of Saturn 6

 

Personal Perspective: Its a balanced Power fantasy. You want to be powerful, but not too powerful, the game needs to be easy, but not too easy. It feels good to be powerful. The higher you rank your gear the stronger you get, it is addicting. I remember when Vox Solaris Lv30 Enemies were kicking my butt with my Boltor and Heat Sword in hand. That used to be hard. Then I got good, better gear/mods, more knowledge. Let's see how tough your minmax is without those maxed primed mods. You'll feel the difference trust me. Remember how people complained about the grendal missions? Case in point. 

Edited by (PS4)KhaosWolf94
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8 minutes ago, (PS4)KhaosWolf94 said:

Let's see how tough your minmax is without those maxed primed mods. You'll feel the difference trust me. Remember how people complained about the grendal missions? Case in point. 

The objective is to farm for those weapons and mods because de put them in the game. Of course people are going to use them and should use their strongest builds in accordance to what the game wants from them. The issue at hand is poor balancing surrounding said frames and mods. 

Also most people dislike the Grendel missions not because it’s “hard” (they almost require you to cheese them) it’s  counter productive to the point of the game where you collect said weapons items and mods to be used. I’d say a major overhaul to the mods can fix this and repurposes of a lot of them could fix and balance the game so it’s more enjoyable for everyone. Nerfs and much needed buffs included. I’d also personally say the issue with de and nerfs is that they rarely buff things that are needed yet seek to nerf things almost instantly because to be fair a nerf isn’t bad. It’s the reasons and quantity as well as the serverith of  said nerfs which are the issue

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)KhaosWolf94 said:

I've been saying this forever. 

The game is Sooo Easy, Until it's not. Then it's Unfair, Until it's Easy. (Source: Every Elitist ever)

*See Wolf of Saturn 6

 

Personal Perspective: Its a balanced Power fantasy. You want to be powerful, but not too powerful, the game needs to be easy, but not too easy. It feels good to be powerful. The higher you rank your gear the stronger you get, it is addicting. I remember when Vox Solaris Lv30 Enemies were kicking my butt with my Boltor and Heat Sword in hand. That used to be hard. Then I got good, better gear/mods, more knowledge. Let's see how tough your minmax is without those maxed primed mods. You'll feel the difference trust me. Remember how people complained about the grendal missions? Case in point. 

You are right but to be fair, Grendel Mish makes no sense.  You make us grind for eternity to reach the goal of becoming bpwerful but then you arbitrarily take away literally everything just to grind a frame and there's no story tie in to support why youmdid that.  

DE can't balance a game. That is apparent.  What they could do, though, is make people earn through game play certain aspects instead of giving buy options.  For example, if you could only get Grendel through playing.  Then, if nothing else, people would see a guy with Grendel and repsect the guy is good enough and put in the time to get him vs. seeing a guy that has been playing a week having the same stuff a 5 year vet has.  That in itself would compel play over pay and establish that balance you mentioned where you want to play the game and feel powerful but not cheap. 

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12 hours ago, Voltage said:

I disagree with this completely. If you put a lot of time into a game, you want to be progressing your account in a positive direction. This means you get better stuff. When the game continues to raise the ceiling of total power, but doesnt provide any meaningful counter to it, things get stale. It's a completely dumb argument to tell people to just start un-progressing because DE isn't capable of producing stuff that tests the raised power limit. Fortuna on launch was a damn fun update when you had level 4 beacons with hoards of difficult enemies pushing towards you in a Toroid farm or Bounty. I'm not going to pretend that there was a time when Warframe was really challenging, but the purpose of a players progression has slowly been taken away. We don't have the Void for example which was hands down the best place to test equipment and be rewarded for it. Steel Path is a great foundation for this problem, so I'm hoping DE wo

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Edited by KaizergidorahXi
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1 minute ago, (PS4)Glitschig said:

 

I'm not saying grendal missions are good or bad, make sense or don't. I'm saying that when people are stripped of their goodies (with the exception of those who've practiced without them) struggled. Why? Because they are powerful when the stuff earned through time is at their disposal. Revert that and suddenly you're not so tough anymore. 

Point: The game isn't getting easier you've gotten stronger. 

I let my 3 year old play for me while I'm AFK on a restroom break or something and she destroys enemies. Not because she's a prodigy, but my gear is powerful. Many players aren't as good as they think they are. Suffice it to say it's a power fantasy game at its core. But not such a power fantasy that you can 1 shot steel path enemies at the start, that takes time. 

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For people who do say that we are too powerful, remember the idea behind the Tenno's character. The point of Tenno squads or units is that they were an unbeatable force, surpassing the Dax and Orokin. They were able to come back from death, can parkour with unmatched agility, and can take on sentients, eidelons, the infested, and grineer and corpus armies assigned to outposts. They are basically if you gave navy SEAL's a powersuit, steroids, the knowledge to use any weapon they touch, some powers, and a crossoff from the deathnote. The point is that we, the Tenno, are overpowered. That is why we are thought to be myths and legends. Because we can do things nobody can do. And if you say we are overpowered, you are basically challenging the whole lore of the warframe universe.

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Just now, (PS4)KhaosWolf94 said:

I'll say it again, 

It's a power fantasy game. 

Complaining about being too powerful in a power fantasy game makes about as much sense as complaining about a sports car because it drives too fast. 

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Just now, (PS4)KhaosWolf94 said:

Complaining about being too powerful in a power fantasy game makes about as much sense as complaining about a sports car because it drives too fast. 

There are many power fantasy games that have balance in them. And even a sports car has a cap on speed. And regulations in place for such dude

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Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

There are many power fantasy games that have balance in them. And even a sports car has a cap on speed. And regulations in place for such dude

Dont read too much into that. Nobody is saying you should press 4 and your console should explode because your so powerful of course there should be regulations, and there are. If you really need an example, put a new player in an arbitration, don't carry them, just watch. Tell me if you think they're too powerful, obvious answer is of course not, it'd be dumb to think that (with few exceptions) a new player can perform at that level, but now we have vets with over 3000 hours talking about how arbitrary the game has become. Well you weren't saying that at MR9 with 100 Hours in. It's almost like you've gotten better. 

 

But people CANNOT be satisfied. It's too hard, it's too easy, it's too hard, it's too easy. 

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The ideal spot is having a game that rewards you from beeing clutch with good to very good optimisation and let only the wisest few getting very confortable.

It makes 0 sense asking for people lowering their expectations because you don't see yourself able to handle what is thrown at you in a proper way as well...

I hate this thread. The mix or retarded/absurd moralisation and the amount of complaisancy it got as well.

 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)KhaosWolf94 said:

Dont read too much into that. Nobody is saying you should press 4 and your console should explode because your so powerful of course there should be regulations, and there are. If you really need an example, put a new player in an arbitration, don't carry them, just watch. Tell me if you think they're too powerful, obvious answer is of course not, it'd be dumb to think that (with few exceptions) a new player can perform at that level, but now we have vets with over 3000 hours talking about how arbitrary the game has become. Well you weren't saying that at MR9 with 100 Hours in. It's almost like you've gotten better. 

 

But people CANNOT be satisfied. It's too hard, it's too easy, it's too hard, it's too easy. 

The thing is this I can tell a friend who’s never played warframe to make an account and get to mr 8 within a weeks time and it’s very likely he could do arbitration at my level. Also even at newer levels there’s something that I mentioned earlier about progression flatlining meaning that progression for the game met a big stop ages ago.  I have almost 2k hours in and im not expecting dark souls level of difficulty but progression would be nice. In terms of power fantasy again. The game is balanced poorly and progression is shot. When at such early game a new player can get access to kuva weapons and much much more which right now are some of the stronger weapons in game (yet can’t get aklex prime lel) but back to the whole power fantasy thing. You are right to enjoy a power fantasy to which warframe is. But also it’s not some heinous act to expect challenge from such. darksiders dmc most MMOs are a power fantasy but still have a great balance and or progression that makes sense if not from a lore standpoint then a player standpoint and right now imo warframe has neither which again is one of the major causes of why the community is so divided. Warframe has no clear direction so how can the playerbase come to clear conclusions about anything 

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13 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

because nobody is forcing you to completely min max everything.

This is more like a cold, lame take that's been parroted on these forums for years. It's not our job to teach game design principles to DE. DE must properly balance the game at both the casual and "enthusiast" levels. There are a lot of players, myself included, who like efficiency, and there needs to be content for us as well. It's up to DE to figure out how to do that, and I sure as hell ain't taking off my mods and using an mk-1 Braton to challenge myself. Steel Path and recent enemy design have been big steps in the right direction. 

Edited by Ikyr0
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14 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

because nobody is forcing you to completely min max everything. You don't have to use primed mods or rivens or arcanes or helminth infused warframes or the best weapons if you dont want to and its hilarious how every time this point someone says:

 

"Well. I shouldnt have to play with a hand tied behind my back just to have a challenge."

But they want to act like DE tying their hands back *for them* is somehow different than them excersizing a modicum of self control over the impulse to gravitate towards the bestest stuff. 

 

Id rather have the option of being "over powered", or not, than have the game only appeal to the nerf herders.

I dont understand your logic, you're saying you don't have to play the game then? Being good at a game should be expected, every good player wil looking for a challenge in later content, the game it self focuses on this ideal with the mastery rank system and mastery tank test. Through out the game they talk about if you've become powerful or skilled enough to beat any odds. They gave out heavy guns, augment mods and archwing launchers, should we just not use them because we don't want to be too good? That's a silly concept, should we just play with only melee and no guns as well? It doesn't we need. Gun for everything and yet I'm sure you one s well. Since this is a live game many will be looking for the next challenge, if you cant handle it, no one is forcing you to try it. 

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8 часов назад, bibmobello сказал:

Just take some acolytes and make them common enemies.

This will simply deepen the issue. Players will figure how to cheese this, and even more content will become too easy.

7 часов назад, DeadlySurgeon сказал:

In a game like Warframe, that has a coreloop that rewards efficiency and optimization, it does seem a little odd to be mad at players for leaning into that.

It's odd for those players to be mad at actually beating the game.

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2 минуты назад, (PS4)sweatshawp сказал:

However the game hasn’t ended yet so how could one beat the gam

They can beat any boss/mission they want.

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