do not nerf warframe infused abilities!

[_Anise_]

If an ability is fine on the main warframe and I can be buffed with it on my chosen frame, why can't my chosen frame just have it 1:1 since I am having to farm and build a whole other frame and buy a spare slot JUST said ability!

to reiterate, if I can get roar if rhino is in my group it makes no sense for the infused ability to be a worse version? I just won't infuse anything to get an inferior version and keep using the single overpowered frame that has whatever ability/kit I want at full strength?

so rather than "omg nerf its too good" maybe make some of the bad choices better ones? maybe if Loki gave up his stealth instead of his decoy then it might be a choice between oo do I actually want roar for op damage or do I want a proper stealth! so I deal less damage but am more defensible.

 

[SneakyErvin]

They could make an easy solution to it.

If you decide to take Roar for instance, you'll only get max potential from it if it replaces another #3 or a #4 skill. If it replaces a #1 or a #2, the strength of the power reduces accordingly.

[Krankbert]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb _Anise_:

yep just don't, if the ability is fine on the main warframe and that ability can be in the game with me on my chosen frame, just make the abilities 1:1 since I am having to farm and build a whole other frame and buy a spare slot JUST to get this ability!

 

You can hope to god that they don't tune down Roar to the level that is justified by the cost of building a Rhino and maybe buying a spare slot early.

[_Anise_]

roar is a great choice mostly because a LOT of the other choices are lackluster imo.

if all the choices were as good as roar this would be a none issue.

like why are there 3 different versions of decoy when one of them (Octavia) is clearly the superior one! give players more better choices not worse good ones!!

[Oreades]

Wait, I decided to not bother with the forums for the rest of yesterday..... did they come out and say they where going to nerf/waterdown the subsumable abilities or is this just FUD in anticipation of that being the path they might walk? 

[SyBuhr]

Bro, when have the developer's listened to community feed-back ever (save when they've stepped in hot-S#&$). Face it, they knew people were hyped to have the option to band-aid fix some S#&$ty warframe kits, and know exactly which abilities people will replace because they complained about them for years (Zephyr Rework?), and instead of actually addressing the dam issue, they decide to take the lazy route as usual.

SMH, you all should have seen this coming a mile away.

[SyBuhr]

Just now, Oreades said:

Wait, I decided to not bother with the forums for the rest of yesterday..... did they come out and say they where going to nerf/waterdown the subsumable abilities or is this just FUD in anticipation of that being the path they might walk? 

They out-right said they were doing it to several hot-picks because they were "overwhelmingly picked" (by content creators who were hyped for the ability to swap out S#&$ abilities for good ones).

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I wonder what would've happened if they nerfed it after the update dropped, at least now you can think about using those abilities or another one

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Wait, I decided to not bother with the forums for the rest of yesterday..... did they come out and say they where going to nerf/waterdown the subsumable abilities or is this just FUD in anticipation of that being the path they might walk? 

Ah, remember when Pablo said not all powers would be 1:1 in subsumed? They are making good of that based on what the players have been saying about how AWESOME some abilities would be and they put them in ALL THEIR FRAMES. And reacted accordingly by making they have lower power/range/cap.

 

[_Anise_]

6 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

emember when Pablo said not all powers would be 1:1 in subsumed?

did they already say this? then I feel like I might have been clickbaited into thinking this was a nerf I still think a LOT of the lesser tier abilities should be looked at

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Too late. You're gonna have to deal with it. Maybe try using some mods.....

[ebrl]

"Feedback received. Nerfing infused abilities on base Warframes as well to match"

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

Oh no, the better option has been nerfed to being, well, still the better option since half the abilities that are being transferred still suck.

[_Anise_]

Just now, Mr.ToastForPresident said:

Oh no, the better option has been nerfed to being, well, still the better option since half the abilities that are being transferred still suck.

exactly ! "what 80% of people still took the nerfed roar? should be buff some other abilities, give better optional skill choices? naa lets just make subsumed roar even worse"

[trst]

20 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Bro, when have the developer's listened to community feed-back ever (save when they've stepped in hot-S#&$). Face it, they knew people were hyped to have the option to band-aid fix some S#&$ty warframe kits, and know exactly which abilities people will replace because they complained about them for years (Zephyr Rework?), and instead of actually addressing the dam issue, they decide to take the lazy route as usual.

SMH, you all should have seen this coming a mile away.

Spoiler alert: the very ability nerfs they're talking about are the very abilities players have been raising concerns over and have been asking for them to be nerfed and there are players that have been begging for nerfs to our power in general. Just because the devs didn't take "your camps" feedback doesn't mean they didn't take any.

And no they're certainly not perfect and they do take the lazy routes with a lot of things but the entire notion that they don't take feedback is so absurd and ridiculous I have to hope that you and everyone who says such are actually trolls.

[JackHargreav]

I don't understand why they picked abilities that would surely cause problems and would need to be nerfed.

We could have gotten rhino charge and there. No problem.

Intead of eclipse mirage's 2nd would have been a fine choice.

Defy I don't even understand. That ability gives you flat 1500 armor. Which is not that much so why did this get nerfed?

But anyways. It would have been easier to change the abilities than giving us half assed versions.

[Kaotyke]

5 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

did they already say this? then I feel like I might have been clickbaited into thinking this was a nerf I still think a LOT of the lesser tier abilities should be looked at

Pablo said that when people asked about some powers, like Grendel's and Limbo's would work since it doesnt work without the rest of their kit.

It was before the list was given on the 12th last week.

 

[SyBuhr]

On 2020-08-20 at 7:36 PM, trst said:

Spoiler alert: the very ability nerfs they're talking about are the very abilities players have been raising concerns over and have been asking for them to be nerfed. Just because the devs didn't take "your camps" feedback doesn't mean they didn't take any.

And no they're certainly not perfect and they do take the lazy routes with a lot of things but the entire notion that they don't take feedback is so absurd and ridiculous I have to hope that you and everyone who says such are actually trolls.

Why offer those abilities in the first place?

They knew, they knew it was gonna build hype for players to finally fix some broken frames, and they blew it.

You want to fix the problem? Buff the trash abilities so they don't make up 90% of the chart. Seriously? Lull and Rest&Rage in the same chart? Who is going to take Lull over that?

[Hypernaut1]

17 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

 

You want to fix the problem? Buff the trash abilities so they don't make up 90% of the chart. Seriously? Lull and Rest&Rage in the same chart? Who is going to take Lull over that?

Someone who doesn't have an extra equinox to subsume. It's called options

They didn't "offer" abilities. They showed a system they were working on. Why are people acting like it was a don't deal already? We don't even know how much it was weakened. 

[SyBuhr]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Someone who doesn't have an extra equinox to subsume. It's called options

They didn't "offer" abilities. They showed a system they were working on. Why are people acting like it was a don't deal already? We don't even know how much it was weakened. 

The fact that it is being weakened from base is pretty telling already.

out of the 43 Known abilities to subsume, about 21 of them are pretty useless. 17 are big maybes, depending on how bad they screw them up. Mind you, some abilities are practically repeats, such as Blood altar, Dispensary, and Well of life, with one of these becoming a clear choice no matter how much they nerf. 6 of them are going to be good no matter the circumstances because the ability itself offers so much.

What does this mean? It means that no matter how hard you nerf the abilities, you don't fix the issue. There will always be a meta pick. No one is going to take Limbo's Banish, so why have it on there?

Why do we have Abilities that rely on entire kits as a subsumable, when we know it won't work out?

Why are we trying to make those unworkable abilities look good in comparison, rather than actually play well?

The big issue is that Digital Extremes is vague on what they are delivering to us, and flip flop on what the system will do. Will Condemn give shields? Maybe, we don't know. So why take Condemn when you can take Ensare?

Edit: Also seriously, if you are going to claim options, then yeah I would like the better of the two to be "Slightly" harder to obtain (which it really isn't). If the popular/better picks are going to keep getting nerfed, why bother using the system in the first place?

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

They could outright remove them for all I care. But they didnt. Theres no numbers to compare the subsumbed abilities to where they originate from to have any conclusions. 

I still think they will be viable. It just means that if you want the best Warcry, roar or dispensory: you have to use the original kit. 

And I dont mind that change. It dosent make the ability any less useful. It just means Rhino isnt listed as a "food" frame because I think that's where hed rank, and Rhinos overall use would drastically decrease if this wasnt changed.

[Toppien]

i wanted charge instead of roar...

[SyBuhr]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

They could outright remove them for all I care. But they didnt. Theres no numbers to compare the subsumbed abilities to where they originate from to have any conclusions. 

I still think they will be viable. It just means that if you want the best Warcry, roar or dispensory: you have to use the original kit. 

And I dont mind that change. It dosent make the ability any less useful. It just means Rhino isnt listed as a "food" frame because I think that's where hed rank, and Rhinos overall use would drastically decrease.

Rhino would still be played because of Iron Skin (maybe stomp, maybe). Frames that would really see a benefit would be Mag (replace Pull with pillage for Condemn if it gives shields). I'd play Mag more than Harrow at that point.

But that's the reverse, I'd be taking a great frame (Harrow) and making a S#&$ frame (Mag) better and more enjoyable to play. I don't see why the nerfs need to happen in the first place. You aren't going to get rid of the god-tier frames in this regard, people will always play rhino, Inaros, Wukong, and Valkyr because their kits offer something in every situation. And you'd be going to their kit, not just for the one ability.

Subsuming is literally Digital Extremes' attempt at offering a band-aid fix for less played frames like Mag. They need to stop with the nerfs though, because if they don't people are not going to invest at all.

Edit: Who is going to put Mind Control, an ability touted as S#&$ by the majority, on any frame? Who is going to put Pull or Decoy on any frame? It is literally taking some of the worst abilities and saying "here put it on a good frame or Kit". Why would you do that? There's literally no reason to waste 70+ hours doing that when you know it's going to be S#&$.

[killerJoke66]

35 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Subsuming is literally Digital Extremes' attempt at offering a band-aid fix for less played frames like Mag.

and sad pirate tentacle hentai man ! water-roid

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

Ah, remember when Pablo said not all powers would be 1:1 in subsumed? They are making good of that based on what the players have been saying about how AWESOME some abilities would be and they put them in ALL THEIR FRAMES. And reacted accordingly by making they have lower power/range/cap.

 

I think it's just kind of annoying how they keep going with the easier fixes for the system. Yes, nerfing the best abilities to make other abilities more viable technically does work. Yes, slightly buffing three abilities out of the forty-something you've added technically does mean you've tweaked abilities for the Subsume system. 

I understand that the easier methods are usually preferred but my god man, you can't tell me it doesn't come across as lazy and a half-baked attempt to "balance" the system entirely. At this rate the Helminth system isn't going to do much of anything and might as well be a waste of time outside of some select circumstances.

I'd rather just take small base value buffs at this point, like more Armor but less Shields or something if they're going to overcomplicate the system this much while not properly changing it to make it worth the effort and resources.