We need to forma our De to switch their mindset to set it to = BUFF and not nerf

[mantasas17x]

Sorry if its a bit offensive title but, it looked like interesting concept annnnnd its no longer interesting, abilities are getting nerfed already, so what's the point of it anymore? 

Oh look we have 6 abilities that work, but other abilities are way weaker what should we do????? AH YES soooo we take the weak abilities sand ignore them and make the good ones weak that's the trick, there won't be fun if everything is overnerfed! 

 

anyways sorry if its offensive, but this was good oportunity to return to warframe for some endgame content to farm warframes to make something new and now its already looking bad with nerfs incoming

[wtrmlnjuc]

No offense to you OP, but please stop suggesting adding power creep to this game, we already have enough. Blanket solutions like this (and overnerfing) help nobody. Be specific about the exact things you want to buff/nerf and give detailed reasoning, or else we end up with even more of a balance mess than Warframe is already in. The game has gotten considerably easier from several years ago as we’ve become more powerful and damage has changed. 

[Tali]

First of, the values arent revealed so instead of spelling doom on it already, its better to just wait. Secondly, both buffs and nerfs are a part of balancing.
Just because its gets nerfed compared to the original, doesnt make it useless.

[Lazarow]

DE Forma drop rate 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001% drop on wave 200Void Defense Steel Path

[mantasas17x]

8 minutes ago, Nova-IX said:

First of, the values arent revealed so instead of spelling doom on it already, its better to just wait. Secondly, both buffs and nerfs are a part of balancing.
Just because its gets nerfed compared to the original, doesnt make it useless.

i just think that nerfing things is not agood way to aproach things, some ppl enjoy certain playstyle and nerfing it sucks, this is not pvp game so i nerfs should be used on really op things not on things that are popular in this case

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Please read the actual feedback advice at the top of the feedback page.

[mantasas17x]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Please read the actual feedback advice at the top of the feedback page.

i guess i meant the buff thingy more abroad that, its better to buff things, not nerf them all the time and right now we are jjust seeing nerfs

[angias]

il y a 5 minutes, mantasas17x a dit :

i guess i meant the buff thingy more abroad that, its better to buff things, not nerf them all the time and right now we are jjust seeing nerfs

You see what you want to see.

Only 6 were nerfed. Because they could lead to easy exploit and become mandatory in the kit of elitist.

[Opyt]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Please read the actual feedback advice at the top of the feedback page.

Thank you for your constructive feedback of a person just S#&$posting.  Perhaps you'd like it better if he expressed it as:

"My interest in this upcoming system has significantly waned because rather than increasing the strength of other powers, you have opted instead to nerf the powers that were to be shared by subsumed Warframes."

19 minutes ago, Nova-IX said:

First of, the values arent revealed so instead of spelling doom on it already, its better to just wait. Secondly, both buffs and nerfs are a part of balancing.
Just because its gets nerfed compared to the original, doesnt make it useless.

But we know DE.  Or at least some of us do.  A "nerf" with DE is never a minor adjustment.

Xoris: 0% efficiency heavy attack when using exalted weapons with it, down from 100% efficiency (in line with the rest of the melee weapons)

Protective Dash: 500 hitpoints over 5 seconds with no stacking, down from 60% hitpoints over 5 seconds with 5 seconds of invulnerability on stationary objectives

Gara Splinter Storm: 50% capped damage reduction, down from 70% damage reduction on stationary objectives

Catchmoon: (had to look it up)

• Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.
• Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m.

Zakti: self-stagger when in range of exploding dart from no stagger (and importantly: no self-damage) when in range of exploding dart.

 

We know DE.  And from this, we can judge that DE policy is "no half measures" when it comes to "nerfing" things.  I.E. I will be massively surprised if War Cry isn't a flat bonus 25 to 30% attack speed.

[NoXHeart]

I'm sorry, but the mindset that just cause its not PVP that nerfes aren't necessary is not true.

Nerfs and balancing are needed even in PVE, even if balance isn't as important as it is in PVP. The two keys to PVE balance in any game are difficulty, and options.

The developers will (or should) always have an intent on how difficult things should be, and so balancing how strong the players are to how strong the things they fight are key to that. The game should always reach that sweet spot where the difficulty is exactly where the developers intend it to be.

Secondly in options, in many games people will always have various ways they can go about combat, be it melee, ranged, and/or even more specific then that. While these don't have to be perfectly balanced between each other, no single method or small set of methods should outshine the others so much that it feels pointless to do anything else.

So if an overpowered option that outshines everything else comes along, why not just buff everything else you say? Well then that creates power creep, which goes back to the first part of what I said, ruining the intended difficulty balance.


Now, you can still argue that DE *over* nerfs things, but still, the whole you should never nerf anything in a PVE game is just wrong.

[mantasas17x]

3 minutes ago, NoXHeart said:

I'm sorry, but the mindset that just cause its not PVP that nerves aren't necessary is not true.

Nerfs and balancing are needed even in PVE, even if balance isn't as important as it is in PVP. The two keys to PVE balance in any game are difficulty, and options.

The developers will (or should) always have an intent on how difficult things should be, and so balancing how strong the players are to how strong the things they fight are key to that. The game should always reach that sweet spot where the difficulty is exactly where the developers intend it to be.

Secondly in options, in many games people will always have various ways they can go about combat, be it melee, ranged, and/or even more specific then that. While these don't have to be perfectly balanced between each other, no single method or small set of methods should outshine the others so much that it feels pointless to do anything else.

So if an overpowered option that outshines everything else comes along, why not just buff everything else you say? Well then that creates power creep, which goes back to the first part of what I said, ruining the intended difficulty balance.


Now, you can still argue that DE *over* nerfs things, but still, the whole you should never nerf anything in a PVE game is just wrong.

I have never said , that nothing should be nerfed, its more like the really op and abusive things should be nerfed 

[Tali]

16 minutes ago, mantasas17x said:

i just think that nerfing things is not agood way to aproach things, some ppl enjoy certain playstyle and nerfing it sucks, this is not pvp game so i nerfs should be used on really op things not on things that are popular in this case

You cant have buffs without nerfs, besides if its broken, it needs to be adjusted. Just because one likes something, its not an argument for not nerfing it. Same with the PvP argument, its not an excuse for not nerfing stuff, else things would keep being broken.

2 minutes ago, Opyt said:

But we know DE.  Or at least some of us do.  A "nerf" with DE is never a minor adjustment.

Xoris: 0% efficiency heavy attack when using exalted weapons with it, down from 100% efficiency (in line with the rest of the melee weapons)

Protective Dash: 500 hitpoints over 5 seconds with no stacking, down from 60% hitpoints over 5 seconds with 5 seconds of invulnerability on stationary objectives

Gara Splinter Storm: 50% capped damage reduction, down from 70% damage reduction on stationary objectives

Catchmoon: (had to look it up)

• Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.
• Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m.

Zakti: self-stagger when in range of exploding dart from no stagger (and importantly: no self-damage) when in range of exploding dart.

 

We know DE.  And from this, we can judge that DE policy is "no half measures" when it comes to "nerfing" things.  I.E. I will be massively surprised if War Cry isn't a flat bonus 25 to 30% attack speed.

Im not saying they are perfect, no one are. I agree with examples you brought, they are fine in my opinion.

[NoXHeart]

Its not just 'OP' or 'abusive' things in relation to the enemies that we fight that should be nerfed. If players look at a option or a set of options and compare it to the rest, and just see no reason why they would *ever* pick the lesser ones, then some balance is needed. Specializations and certain needs for certain missions and what not will always exist, but everything should generally feel equally viable.

Now, I'm not saying DE has exactly done a good job of that, but eh, I hope I'm getting my point across.

[Opyt]

Just now, Nova-IX said:

You cant have buffs without nerfs, besides if its broken, it needs to be adjusted. Just because one likes something, its not an argument for not nerfing it. Same with the PvP argument, its not an excuse for not nerfing stuff, else things would keep being broken.

Im not saying they are perfect, no one are. I agree with examples you brought, they are fine in my opinion.

We'll just have to disagree with them being "fine".

My personal pet peeve: flat healing in a game with objectives that have scaling health is far from "fine"... but okay.

The point of these examples is that they are not going to give it any half-measures when it comes to nerfing.  I'm expecting that DE will just make them equivalent to R0 with no scaling from mods.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 minutes ago, Opyt said:

Thank you for your constructive feedback of a person just S#&$posting.  Perhaps you'd like it better if he expressed it as:

"My interest in this upcoming system has significantly waned because rather than increasing the strength of other powers, you have opted instead to nerf the powers that were to be shared by subsumed Warframes."

But we know DE.  Or at least some of us do.  A "nerf" with DE is never a minor adjustment.

Xoris: 0% efficiency heavy attack when using exalted weapons with it, down from 100% efficiency (in line with the rest of the melee weapons)

Protective Dash: 500 hitpoints over 5 seconds with no stacking, down from 60% hitpoints over 5 seconds with 5 seconds of invulnerability on stationary objectives

Gara Splinter Storm: 50% capped damage reduction, down from 70% damage reduction on stationary objectives

Catchmoon: (had to look it up)

• Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.
• Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m.

Zakti: self-stagger when in range of exploding dart from no stagger (and importantly: no self-damage) when in range of exploding dart.

 

We know DE.  And from this, we can judge that DE policy is "no half measures" when it comes to "nerfing" things.  I.E. I will be massively surprised if War Cry isn't a flat bonus 25 to 30% attack speed.

Cool story, but the post is there for a reason. 

Also, my catchmoon is still fine. Ever heard of projectile flight speed? Or maybe try not using a short range aoe gun for long range? 

And did you know Warcry also has additional features than just attack speed? And that you can always supplement that attack speed with other attack speed mods?

[Tali]

3 minutes ago, Opyt said:

We'll just have to disagree with them being "fine".

My personal pet peeve: flat healing in a game with objectives that have scaling health is far from "fine"... but okay.

The point of these examples is that they are not going to give it any half-measures when it comes to nerfing.  I'm expecting that DE will just make them equivalent to R0 with no scaling from mods.

And that is just how personal opinions are. Im happy that they are adjusting them.

[TheLexiConArtist]

44 minutes ago, Opyt said:

Gara Splinter Storm: 50% capped damage reduction, down from 70% damage reduction on stationary objectives

Ah-ah. Down from 90% capped damage reduction. 70% was just the baseline of the ability before strength.

So Gara protects things 20% as well as she did before. EHP*=2 not EHP*=10.

[Opyt]

13 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Ah-ah. Down from 90% capped damage reduction. 70% was just the baseline of the ability before strength.

So Gara protects things 20% as well as she did before. EHP*=2 not EHP*=10.

I stand corrected.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Cool story, but the post is there for a reason. 

Also, my catchmoon is still fine. Ever heard of projectile flight speed? Or maybe try not using a short range aoe gun for long range? 

And did you know Warcry also has additional features than just attack speed? And that you can always supplement that attack speed with other attack speed mods?

I had to look up the catchmoon because I didn't care about it, but it did cross my mind.  It's just DE driving things into the dirt like they always do.

Glad the catchmoon nerf worked out for you.  It was just an example in a list of "No half measures".  Would it make you feel better if I pointed out the Railjack's Cryophon changes in 27.0.9 instead?

Okay then:

• Cryophon series
  • Reduced damage and increased fall off range
    • Reducing the armor values of enemies made these capable of killing every enemy in a single hit, this brings them back in line with the intended time to kill. Please bear in mind we are actively watching player stats and collecting feedback, and are willing to iterate on balance.

And now the Cryophon is never used because the Apoc and Carcinnox are miles ahead of it.

[angias]

il y a 6 minutes, Opyt a dit :

I stand corrected.

I had to look up the catchmoon because I didn't care about it, but it did cross my mind.  It's just DE driving things into the dirt like they always do.

Glad the catchmoon nerf worked out for you.  It was just an example in a list of "No half measures".  Would it make you feel better if I pointed out the Railjack's Cryophon changes in 27.0.9 instead?

Okay then:

• Cryophon series
  • Reduced damage and increased fall off range
    • Reducing the armor values of enemies made these capable of killing every enemy in a single hit, this brings them back in line with the intended time to kill. Please bear in mind we are actively watching player stats and collecting feedback, and are willing to iterate on balance.

And now the Cryophon is never used because the Apoc and Carcinnox are miles ahead of it.

To add to your argument. DE should share the value of suggested change in advance. So we can argue if it's fair or too much

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, Opyt said:

I stand corrected.

I had to look up the catchmoon because I didn't care about it, but it did cross my mind.  It's just DE driving things into the dirt like they always do.

Glad the catchmoon nerf worked out for you.  It was just an example in a list of "No half measures".  Would it make you feel better if I pointed out the Railjack's Cryophon changes in 27.0.9 instead?

Okay then:

• Cryophon series
  • Reduced damage and increased fall off range
    • Reducing the armor values of enemies made these capable of killing every enemy in a single hit, this brings them back in line with the intended time to kill. Please bear in mind we are actively watching player stats and collecting feedback, and are willing to iterate on balance.

And now the Cryophon is never used because the Apoc and Carcinnox are miles ahead of it.

And all railjack enemies were nerfed as well. I played before and after. If this was pre-enemy nerf you'd have a point. 

Now....you can even use your (for some, already formad and rivened) archguns to do everything besides taking out the shielded crewships.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, angias said:

To add to your argument. DE should share the value of suggested change in advance. So we can argue if it's fair or too much

Yes, because the community totally isn't divided and biased. Who's word would they finally listen to?

[angias]

il y a 16 minutes, (PS4)Madurai-Prime a dit :

Yes, because the community totally isn't divided and biased. Who's word would they finally listen to?

I am aware of the community biais and divide.

 

My point is people argue over imaginary numbers.

I think it give even worse feedback than divided bais with referential data.