Why DE is loosing money

[Agnostus]

First of all, let me clarify the title of the post; when i say "loosing money" i mean they could make a whole lot more by changing the game's mentality to serve the low MR player base and make everything instantly available.

I meant to write this post a long time ago, but the recent change to the hemlinth system of making accessible to MR8 players really stuck with me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure the idea behind the whole accessibility model is to serve the new content immediately to the masses in order to keep them happy. Keep in mind that the majority of the player base - as stated by DE themselves- is around MR12.  

BUT!

If DE decided to make the content MR locked to lets say even above MR15, lets put it at MR20, this is an easily attainable goal for an MR12 in a matter of weeks. The easiest way to reach that is by buying primed frames and weapons or even farm for normal frames. The way to expedite this process is obviously platinum, aka $$ for DE.

BUT! 

Platinum, in the case of prime parts, is paid to other players, not to DE / marketplace! -you'd say- this is mostly not the case. Platinum is accumulated by high MR players and usually its stuck there. Personally im sitting on around 12k plat and this amount has been out of the economy for more than 2 years because i fluctuate from 12k - 15k all the time and never needed to fall below that!

By making the game harder and in some cases MR locked, DE would benefit by:

• Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster
• Giving low MR players a sense of progression and keep them active for longer 
• Giving high MR players a sense of validation for all the time and preparation they've already put in the game

The whole topic above can be expanded to challenging content altogether.

Making Steel Path - a mode that for a newer player is kind of challenging and at least forces him/her to optimize their build a bit more- a true end-game experience by providing some fair rewards (umbra formas and riven stat lockers - where u can lock one of the stats when rolling) would also have similar results as stated above!

I really look forward to reading your comments, hopefully not derailing that much from the original topic, and that the post gets enough friction so that the devs get a look at it!

Stay safe everyone! 

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, Agnostus said:

Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster

Is that you EA?

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

3 minutes ago, Agnostus said:

 

By making the game harder and in some cases MR locked, DE would benefit by:

• Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster
• Giving low MR players a sense of progression and keep them active for longer 

This right here caught my concern because many newbies may think that the progression system is pay to win which is rather problematic if you want new players to stay around

[Agnostus]

To get from MR12 to MR20 is maximum 15 days including the 84h u need for each frame to be built, dont be absurd! No one would be actually forcing anyone to pay for anything. There are always people that are willing to pay to save some time from farming.

In addition, you ask for good, polished content. The developers should always be paid for their work.

[RazerXPrime]

1 minute ago, Agnostus said:

guys to get from MR12 to MR20 is maximum 15 days including the 84h u need for each frame to be built, dont me absurd

Only if you're completely insane.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Wow. Not even bothering to try to explain why this thread is totally off base. 

[Letter13]

Sure, DE could probably make a lot more money by engaging in predatory microtransaction practices and hopping on the pay-to-win bandwagon...

 

... But that's what villains do.

 

It'd also most likely irrepairably harm DE's reputation and wind up spelling doom for the game, as well as create a veritable death sentence for any future efforts outside of Warframe. But hey at least they'd make a quick buck!

[VanFanel1980mx]

You know you dropped the ball when even the moderator says your idea is predatory.

[Agnostus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Wow. Not even bothering to try to explain why this thread is totally off base. 

Yet you take the time to post that you discard it. Personally i'd love to hear some criticism.

[Agnostus]

3 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Sure, DE could probably make a lot more money by engaging in predatory microtransaction practices and hopping on the pay-to-win bandwagon...

 

... But that's what villains do.

So by the same logic, every game that has ever put an expansion out -asking players to pay for it- and raised the whole game's gear score has a predatory practice?

[Letter13]

Just now, Agnostus said:

So by the same logic, every game that has ever put an expansion out -asking players to pay for it- and raised the whole game's gear score has a predatory practice?

If a game is a pay-to-play (i.e. a game you have to pay $ to play, either through initial purchase or subscription), having players pay for a new expansion with new content is fine and normal.

If a game is free-to-play, requiring users to pay money in order to access a new expansion and new content is not fine; the game is then no longer free-to-play--it's 'shareware' or 'trialware' in that only a certain subset of the game's content is free. Even if it's only 'early access' to an expansion or content that would eventually be made free, it'd still leave a very bad taste in a lot of players' mouths... Well maybe not yours since you're suggesting it, but my initial point(s) stand.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, Agnostus said:

Yet you take the time to post that you discard it. Personally i'd love to hear some criticism.

Yup, but the problem is that so much of what you said is fundamentally wrong that it's going to take way too much time to explain. 

Start with "nothing you do can change the mentality of the game, players are diverse and anything that makes one group happy makes another group rage quit".  Then move to "pay to win is a terrible idea". Then proceed to "PC and console economies are totally different and a lot of people on all platforms don't have thousands of plat laying around". 

 

Seriously it's like someone demanding 50k plat for a common mod. It's just not worth the effort of explaining why that's insane. 

[Genitive]

Sometimes I wish we could dislike posts.

[Agnostus]

9 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Sure, DE could probably make a lot more money by engaging in predatory microtransaction practices and hopping on the pay-to-win bandwagon...

 

... But that's what villains do.

 

It'd also most likely irrepairably harm DE's reputation and wind up spelling doom for the game, as well as create a veritable death sentence for any future efforts outside of Warframe. But hey at least they'd make a quick buck!

Soooo.. the fact that they only allow normal - and not primed- frames to be consumed by the hemlinth is definately not done because primed frames are bought from other players while normal frames are bought directly from the market and this is definately not a predatory practice  by the same logic.

[Aguzo]

2 minutes ago, Agnostus said:

So by the same logic, every game that has ever put an expansion out -asking players to pay for it- and raised the whole game's gear score has a predatory practice?

Those games already had paid dlcs planned, and their customers likely knew about it.

Changing a game from years of f2p game to p2p is, how do I put it...

[Neo3602]

1 minute ago, Aguzo said:

Those games already had paid dlcs planned, and their customers likely knew about it.

Changing a game from years of f2p game to p2p is, how do I put it...

it would be a S#&$storm

[Marine027]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Agnostus:

So by the same logic, every game that has ever put an expansion out -asking players to pay for it- and raised the whole game's gear score has a predatory practice?

Because we not goten expansions in years anymore, true addons? Not exist anymore, only small DLC overpriced, this is the problem and people see it as predatory due the latest tiems companys did exactly such, tell me one game that truely put out a addon that gives a heavy update like old games used to, the old Warcraft or Starcraft come to my mind here, giving new races, maps, units, new campaign, MMO like FFXIV or WoW have such with small patches in between. GW2 gives living story for free fi you played at the time it was new.

Other games are predatory with DLC and microtransactions, true addons are dead and companys like DE won't suddenly put Duvari as example in a addon to buy also. It simply not makes sense for this game.

[Letter13]

Just now, Agnostus said:

Soooo.. the fact that they only allow normal - and not primed- frames to be consumed by the hemlinth is definately not done because primed frames are bought from other players while normal frames are bought directly from the market and this is definately not a predatory practice  by the same logic.

You do know you can get prime frames by farming their parts and building them yourself, just like the normal variants, right? 

You don't have to buy them with premium currency from other players or for real money from DE.

That said, trying to deflect/redirect the conversation to Helminth mechanics is not a ploy I'm going to fall for.

[Agnostus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Start with "nothing you do can change the mentality of the game, players are diverse and anything that makes one group happy makes another group rage quit".  Then move to "pay to win is a terrible idea". Then proceed to "PC and console economies are totally different and a lot of people on all platforms don't have thousands of plat laying around". 

Not definitively, there are a whole bunch of implementations that made the majority of the player base happy.

There is no such thing as "pay to win" in warframe, it is not a competitive game.

Agree 100% that the economies are different but there was no point in my post that suggested that one should have tons of plat sitting around. 

[Agnostus]

1 minute ago, Letter13 said:

You do know you can get prime frames by farming their parts and building them yourself, just like the normal variants, right? 

You don't have to buy them with premium currency from other players or for real money from DE.

That said, trying to deflect/redirect the conversation to Helminth mechanics is not a ploy I'm going to fall for.

im not redirecting the conversation, it is a honest reply to your views, and definitely not a ploy.

The point is not the acquisition by farming them, the point is that the plat spent on the case of primes is not getting out of the economy, its not actually spent, whilst the plat spent on normal frames is most obviously spent by eliminating them via the marketplace 

[Marine027]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Agnostus:

Not definitively, there are a whole bunch of implementations that made the majority of the player base happy.

There is no such thing as "pay to win" in warframe, it is not a competitive game.

Agree 100% that the economies are different but there was no point in my post that suggested that one should have tons of plat sitting around. 

Agreeing to this, but i would dare call it a buy "pay to feel better" with bigger numbers and stuff to show of, things like cosmetics or so which are find for a free to play model, unlike lets say Kotor where you have to buy bank acces or so to even use a bank.

While GW2 has such to you have a ground to start with, but can expand it if you need or want.

But also is free to play also. Games without subscription need income but should stay in line to some things still.

PvE or PvP not matters, you sitll pay for content in some way which is bad overall, like Ubisoft with "time savers", it takes the gaems, well, game away, buiyng it so you not have to play and get it, which cna be argued is a very bad way kind of, atleast to very bad RNG stuff that is i say.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Agnostus said:

Not definitively, there are a whole bunch of implementations that made the majority of the player base happy.

There is no such thing as "pay to win" in warframe, it is not a competitive game.

Agree 100% that the economies are different but there was no point in my post that suggested that one should have tons of plat sitting around. 

See? That's why I told you, given your starting point, it's really not worth trying to explain how badly out of touch you are. 

[Svenarx]

DE lose Money, because they don't listen the right's players. They create new goods contents during months and after 1 week, they destroy all and more by nerfing... No player will stay in this game, if all is changing so fast....And old players leave the game destroyed and nerfed.... It s simple. "Metaphor : you buy a car, and 1 week later they removed 3 gear from the gearbox, so you have a slow car. After 1 month they removed all, so you have to walk". Since 2 years, Warframe is like that !!!! Thanks DE, you are smart !

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

44 minutes ago, Agnostus said:

First of all, let me clarify the title of the post; when i say "loosing money" i mean they could make a whole lot more by changing the game's mentality to serve the low MR player base and make everything instantly available.

I meant to write this post a long time ago, but the recent change to the hemlinth system of making accessible to MR8 players really stuck with me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure the idea behind the whole accessibility model is to serve the new content immediately to the masses in order to keep them happy. Keep in mind that the majority of the player base - as stated by DE themselves- is around MR12.  

BUT!

If DE decided to make the content MR locked to lets say even above MR15, lets put it at MR20, this is an easily attainable goal for an MR12 in a matter of weeks. The easiest way to reach that is by buying primed frames and weapons or even farm for normal frames. The way to expedite this process is obviously platinum, aka $$ for DE.

BUT! 

Platinum, in the case of prime parts, is paid to other players, not to DE / marketplace! -you'd say- this is mostly not the case. Platinum is accumulated by high MR players and usually its stuck there. Personally im sitting on around 12k plat and this amount has been out of the economy for more than 2 years because i fluctuate from 12k - 15k all the time and never needed to fall below that!

By making the game harder and in some cases MR locked, DE would benefit by:

• Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster
• Giving low MR players a sense of progression and keep them active for longer 
• Giving high MR players a sense of validation for all the time and preparation they've already put in the game

The whole topic above can be expanded to challenging content altogether.

Making Steel Path - a mode that for a newer player is kind of challenging and at least forces him/her to optimize their build a bit more- a true end-game experience by providing some fair rewards (umbra formas and riven stat lockers - where u can lock one of the stats when rolling) would also have similar results as stated above!

I really look forward to reading your comments, hopefully not derailing that much from the original topic, and that the post gets enough friction so that the devs get a look at it!

Stay safe everyone! 

Is this a joke? You should honestly be ashamed of yourself.

 

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Agnostus said:

when i say "loosing money" i mean

I am deeply saddened by the fact that this wasn't immediately followed by "losing money", and your post was actually a satirical observation on the rampant inability to correctly spell the word "losing".

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.