Why DE is loosing money

[Corvid]

Trying to ramp up short-term profits at the expense of long term reputation is a sure-fire way to kill the game.

In fact, it's one of the biggest problems with the wider gaming industry.

[TurquoiseGnome]

I'm glad everyone can come together like this in the comments and say HELL NO to pay to win design

[Opyt]

21 hours ago, Agnostus said:

First of all, let me clarify the title of the post; when i say "loosing money" i mean they could make a whole lot more by changing the game's mentality to serve the low MR player base and make everything instantly available.

I meant to write this post a long time ago, but the recent change to the hemlinth system of making accessible to MR8 players really stuck with me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure the idea behind the whole accessibility model is to serve the new content immediately to the masses in order to keep them happy. Keep in mind that the majority of the player base - as stated by DE themselves- is around MR12.  

BUT!

If DE decided to make the content MR locked to lets say even above MR15, lets put it at MR20, this is an easily attainable goal for an MR12 in a matter of weeks. The easiest way to reach that is by buying primed frames and weapons or even farm for normal frames. The way to expedite this process is obviously platinum, aka $$ for DE.

BUT! 

Platinum, in the case of prime parts, is paid to other players, not to DE / marketplace! -you'd say- this is mostly not the case. Platinum is accumulated by high MR players and usually its stuck there. Personally im sitting on around 12k plat and this amount has been out of the economy for more than 2 years because i fluctuate from 12k - 15k all the time and never needed to fall below that!

By making the game harder and in some cases MR locked, DE would benefit by:

• Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster
• Giving low MR players a sense of progression and keep them active for longer 
• Giving high MR players a sense of validation for all the time and preparation they've already put in the game

The whole topic above can be expanded to challenging content altogether.

Making Steel Path - a mode that for a newer player is kind of challenging and at least forces him/her to optimize their build a bit more- a true end-game experience by providing some fair rewards (umbra formas and riven stat lockers - where u can lock one of the stats when rolling) would also have similar results as stated above!

I really look forward to reading your comments, hopefully not derailing that much from the original topic, and that the post gets enough friction so that the devs get a look at it!

Stay safe everyone! 

Alternatively they could stop making questionable decisions in regards to nerfs that piss off their customers.

At this point I'm not so sure DE cares about incoming money, and when (or if, but mostly likely when) Tencent buys out Leyou (haven't seen any news beyond "in exclusive talks") they'll basically be funded by the Chinese government and become "too big to fail" much like the banks in America.  I've made more than a few, but less than a thousand, posts about how I'm not buying anything from DE until they fix objective healing, but as just one drop in the bucket, I doubt they care about money at this point friendo, they've already expanded the staff beyond the original team, and apparently they're comfortable enough that they don't mind mixing their politics in with their hybrid official-personal (which as a concept is a mistake, and bringing politics into it even moreso) accounts.

They don't care about overwhelming the players, because much like with the Nova's Null Star giving damage reduction on health, they rely heavily on the players to disseminate information for them, for free.  It's not their problem a few months after it ships, it becomes the community's job to explain everything be it through the wiki, the FAQ chat, or just in general.  A good example of "it becomes the community's problem" is that part where instead of showing the resources on a planet by default they opted instead to give priority in the UI elements to Nightwave.  You have to toggle out of Nightwave on the Navigation screen via a button at the bottom to see what resources are available on a planet, by then hovering over a drone.  If you ask "Where do I get neurodes?" the bot promptly responds with something along the lines of "When looking at a planet in the starchart, the resources are seen in the lower right hand corner."

I'm not even sure if using the passive income resource drones is covered in the NPE, as that might go a long way to helping people with some of the more common resources, and I've used them for so long that I don't even think to mention them when someone says "I need salvage".

If you've ever explained the Kuva Lich system to a pubbie, you've been able to read the frustration when "It said I needed this card, I have this card installed, but it still failed" happens.  The only reason most people knew that it was a trial and error "puzzle" was because of the hype leading up to the release, and because those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it: we can expect something similar with the subsuming Warframes system further down the line.

DE just doesn't seem to care about explaining the design decisions, they just hand down proclamations and then rely on the customers to deal with the changes they issue, regardless of if they're warranted or not, which is why I've found the "feedback" forum to be a bit of a joke they've played on their customers.

A final thought:
If you aren't giving money to a company, you're the content for other players, and this is how the industry has looked at "accounts" vs. "paying customers" for a long time.

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

Funnily enough Helminth is kind of what you're asking for, in a much more limited fashion. 

Why not have it so getting Helminth to max rank lets you convert materials at 50% conversion rate? Want some more Orokin Catalysts? Throw in two Reactors and you get one Catalyst. Have too much Alloy Plate? Make some Polymer, or Plastids, and with the 50% conversion rate this will easily mow through stockpiles while not necessarily being the best option, but a faster option. Helminth won't receive secretions from this of course, but maybe his "happiness" meter could affect it in some way, so that your less incentivized to constantly swap over giant piles. Maybe the conversion rate starts off at 100% but lowers to 50% based on how happy/unhappy Helminth is? The more materials you Convert, the angrier he gets since you're not actually Feeding him. 

Maybe keep that function to an MR lock instead, if the rank limitation is deemed too much of a leap. Just have a small icon on the side, allowing you to swap from "Feed" to "Convert". Converting takes a full day or something but you can spend Plat to rush it. Now we have a material converter and a recurring Plat sink. Of course, if you truly want an effective Veteran plat sink, Consoles do that very well considering the fact each cosmetic costs Plat. Why not release some ridiculous cosmetics that cost only Plat, as if I recall correctly, PC only has raw money costs.

Although, please, for the love of god, no auction house. Ever.

I had already suggested something similar, but what you mentioned is only resource conversion and again vets  have more than enough resources, unless they are completely new. I do not see sustainable plat sinks being possible through resource conversion. Vets don't buy Plat cause they get plat from other players in a circular fashion though trade. 

There needs to be a way to tap this circular trading to have a real sink. 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about plat and tennogen purchase options for cosmetics. Most cosmetics are available for plat. Only tennogen (player made) is available for real money, and I would argue tennogen is a more assured way to get actual revenue as it is only direct money transactions. 

[SenorClipClop]

On 2020-08-21 at 6:08 AM, Agnostus said:

If DE decided to make the content MR locked to lets say even above MR15, lets put it at MR20, this is an easily attainable goal for an MR12 in a matter of weeks.

This is still a problem if accessibility is your concern, though. I think by this point most players are willing to invest some time and effort in advance of payoff (Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley and others make good examples for this), but if you excite a player with an advertised feature, they're going to want to experience it relatively soon. I imagine that for a lot people, demanding several weeks of regular gameplay until they unlock the feature that was advertised to them is going to turn them off playing. And by your estimate, that's just for the average player. With a new player, it might take them a couple months.

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, Marine027 said:

english is not my first language also.

I honestly never would have guessed that it wasn't seeing you in other threads.

It is very good, hek, it is better than some people who have it AS a first language these days.

[SilvaDreams]

DE "loosing" money.. Could it maybe be because there is a global economic face plant and lots of people are out of work and short on money....?

Nah!

[Marine027]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Aldain:

I honestly never would have guessed that it wasn't seeing you in other threads.

It is very good, hek, it is better than some people who have it AS a first language these days.

Bad habit with switching letters mostly on my side but thanks for that, i am used to english but not perfect like order of words or so in certain sentences.

Sadly happens a lot on my side i forget a letter or switch them do trying to type fast, fingers faster then what i actually wanted to write or so.

[Void_Ocelot]

DE is loosing money? Who are they loosing their money upon? Why do we want them to stop? I mean I heard DE was loose, but should we really be judging them?

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, Void_Ocelot said:

mean I heard DE was loose, but should we really be judging them

Yes. Not as much fun for the bloke if they're that loose, it's like dunking your finger in a bucket.

[Monolake]

On 2020-08-21 at 5:33 PM, o0Despair0o said:

And I stopped reading there.

 

This is just a bad idea. New players would have no reason to actually play the game if they just get everything shoved up their rear end, and veterans would get cheated on because all the work they put in is rendered meaningless.

Not to mention the overwhelming amount of stuff in Warframe scares many new players away, thats why gradual progression is needed - its also a way of 'accommodating' players and teaching the game step by step.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes. Not as much fun for the bloke if they're that loose, it's like dunking your finger in a bucket.

I did that today. Was clearing a clogged drain with a cleaner that's primarily concentrated sulphuric acid. It hit the water in the drain and started to boil. Got a couple of little droplets splash back onto my hand. One was my index finger and the other landed a little further back. 

I'm really glad that I had that bucket handy. Dunked my finger in, no regrets. 10 out of 10 would dunk again. 

[LoriSei]

On 2020-08-20 at 11:08 PM, Agnostus said:

First of all, let me clarify the title of the post; when i say "loosing money" i mean they could make a whole lot more by changing the game's mentality to serve the low MR player base and make everything instantly available.

I meant to write this post a long time ago, but the recent change to the hemlinth system of making accessible to MR8 players really stuck with me.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure the idea behind the whole accessibility model is to serve the new content immediately to the masses in order to keep them happy. Keep in mind that the majority of the player base - as stated by DE themselves- is around MR12.  

BUT!

If DE decided to make the content MR locked to lets say even above MR15, lets put it at MR20, this is an easily attainable goal for an MR12 in a matter of weeks. The easiest way to reach that is by buying primed frames and weapons or even farm for normal frames. The way to expedite this process is obviously platinum, aka $$ for DE.

BUT! 

Platinum, in the case of prime parts, is paid to other players, not to DE / marketplace! -you'd say- this is mostly not the case. Platinum is accumulated by high MR players and usually its stuck there. Personally im sitting on around 12k plat and this amount has been out of the economy for more than 2 years because i fluctuate from 12k - 15k all the time and never needed to fall below that!

By making the game harder and in some cases MR locked, DE would benefit by:

• Soft - forcing low MR players to buy platinum in order to access the newest content faster
• Giving low MR players a sense of progression and keep them active for longer 
• Giving high MR players a sense of validation for all the time and preparation they've already put in the game

The whole topic above can be expanded to challenging content altogether.

Making Steel Path - a mode that for a newer player is kind of challenging and at least forces him/her to optimize their build a bit more- a true end-game experience by providing some fair rewards (umbra formas and riven stat lockers - where u can lock one of the stats when rolling) would also have similar results as stated above!

I really look forward to reading your comments, hopefully not derailing that much from the original topic, and that the post gets enough friction so that the devs get a look at it!

Stay safe everyone! 

I'm not prying on this post. But based on my experience, when I was a noob. There were no, sense of direction or a proper tutorial, and also the currency (platinum) is also limited on whats beyond on the starting amount was given, and I instantly thought the game would be lock behind paywall.Then quit right after. So for me it took many months till I realize ur able to obtain platinum free. By trading, and learned all of that in a freaking Third-Party websites such as Youtube.

You're points are somewhat right and wrong. Cuz what the game needs right now, is to remove that "new player dillema" which players needs a proper objective to start and experience the game w/o getting lost, and somewhat clarify the misunderstanding of how the economy works in Warframe, which incluing the basics of platinum and trading.

Beyond that Warframe should properly advertise their equipments in-game so that players knows when to spend cash in this game. Like WTF is Darvo doing 😄

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Trying to earn a quick buck by being predatory is a terrible move made by disgusting devs. And doing such actions during a pandemic when people have lost jobs and have to be more considerable with spending would be a even worst move

[bibmobello]

But they don't care because will probabòy win best comedy game of the year, and the golden ROFL.

i mean even in candy crush you can lose, here it's not possible anymore even cooking a Croquembouche..