I'm still excited for the Helminth system and appreciate it as a whole.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Thank you guys for even introducing such an awesome system. The open world looks amazing and I'm excited for all the features and lore. 

This game seems great at breaking barriers and you've provided an entirely new world of possibilities that I'm excited to experiment with. 

I'm personally especially excited about having another avenue for our operators to shine with the new Mech system and whatever the next open world big boss will be, too! 

Cheers.

[Miyabi-sama]

Are they paying you for this? Don't get me wrong but every time I see your comments it's like shining and rainbows everywhere. Duuh.

[Deminisis]

They're in just about every post against the changes. I guess it's wrong to speak out against things we don't like.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

“Entirely new world of possibilities”

DE: *is literally nerfing subsumed abilities because people want to try them*

Yeah, I’m not interested in trying something if the plan for it is “Nerf anything that seems even remotely good”.

 

[Cinnamon_Bedskirts]

I think all they're trying to do is get across some kind of positive vibes in a swath of negative ones, not silence criticism. Maybe just making sure that some people know that there's a minority that still appreciates it? 

[Kaggelos]

Finally, someone who's positive. Take my like ^^

[(XBOX)Church367A]

This is a completely asinine approach by DE, I'd like to say i can't believe it, but its really not surprising and it is just a complete let down and disappointment.

[RazerXPrime]

10 hours ago, Cinnamon_Bedskirts said:

I think all they're trying to do is get across some kind of positive vibes in a swath of negative ones, not silence criticism. Maybe just making sure that some people know that there's a minority that still appreciates it? 

You're assuming everyone is going to hate the new system. You'd be wrong.

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Entirely new world of possibilities”

DE: *is literally nerfing subsumed abilities because people want to try them*

Yeah, I’m not interested in trying something if the plan for it is “Nerf anything that seems even remotely good”.

 

You promise us not to use the Helminth system when it comes out? Not even when it turns out not to be terrible. Promise us! At least then you made your point and stuck to it.

[Klokwerkaos]

5 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

You promise us not to use the Helminth system when it comes out? Not even when it turns out not to be terrible. Promise us! At least then you made your point and stuck to it.

I'm not that person, but you're making a strawman here.

There's a difference between being excited for a new system and new possibilities and then watch it get turned into yet another middling, mediocre grind fest to make number go up by .01%

Nobody is saying they won't use the system out of response to the nerfs that I've seen.  instead what everyone that is against the nerfs and reduced is saying is that the changes are bad, we don't like it, and DE is bad for doing it.

Don't get me wrong, there are reasons to nerf things.

When something is put into the game and it's even well thought out, and it is easily accessible to a new player and makes them do a map wide nuke with one button, yeah, it's time to re-evaluate.    

What you aren't understanding is there is several problems at work:

The valkyr nerf is in response to a bunch of crybaby valk mains that were upset that half her kit is going away to every frame... well... they should be asking for a rework... Easy for me to say right?

Except that I'm a nidus main.  The only ability I ever consider casting in 99% of missions is larva.  I'm happy other players get to use it, I think it will be cool.  That's 100% of my usable kit, not counting his passive which is the main reason I use him anyway, but yeah, from castable abilities, that's 100% of his use in almost all situations.

That said Nidus doesn't need a rework, his kit is great.  Valkyr on the other hand is an old lady from the days of yore and she's got a good layer of dust on her, asking for a rework was the proper decision, but those players cried to the devs instead.

With Rhino we have a different problem.  First, roar shouldn't have been picked, or if it was, they should have mentioned ahead of time it was 80% or w/e.

The problem is... you either nerf it into the ground, or you give it a love tap.  The love tap does nothing meaningful and makes it still the first choice of dummyframe players.  The only reason to do that is to quell the people crying about it, just like the valk mains.  It still remains the top choice for many, only now with a bitter taste in their mouth, not that it even matters because unless you're building 300 PS to begin with it barely matters, and even then, I can one shot through steel path without rhino roar so... extra damage is kinda not needed if you build properly, but it does serve a function...

Players that are MR 15  8 can dump their rhino when they get the prime and have an ability to carry them through the little content there is and then prepare for the endless grindfest that is everything past MR 16.

So nerfing really, either makes it a non choice, or it makes it sour grapes and nothing else.

Additionally the lowering of the MR means players can clear all actual story content and star chart that much faster and easier that much earlier, and also still have yet another system to learn too early and overwhelm them, and then also, nothing to look forward to that they have to work towards... and the system as a whole will end up being managed just like rivens, mark my words.

Anything "too good" will be nerfed into the ground for being popular and good, rather than taking trash and making it better.  What DE wants is everything to be equal and boring and valid, which is the wrong way to do it.  The better way is to let the meta develop, then change it up by adding something better.  That's literally every game as a service that has been successful since forever.

I'd also like to point out that well of life and air burst were buffed... and they are still trash abilities and non choices.   If that's the level they want everything at, then yes, players are right to be frustrated and upset with them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

 

You promise us not to use the Helminth system when it comes out? Not even when it turns out not to be terrible. Promise us! At least then you made your point and stuck to it.

I’m genuinely considering deleting the Rhino I built to subsume. So trust me I’m getting there.

[RazerXPrime]

Post screenshots

[RazerXPrime]

6 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I'm not that person, but you're making a strawman here.

There's a difference between being excited for a new system and new possibilities and then watch it get turned into yet another middling, mediocre grind fest to make number go up by .01%

Nobody is saying they won't use the system out of response to the nerfs that I've seen.  instead what everyone that is against the nerfs and reduced is saying is that the changes are bad, we don't like it, and DE is bad for doing it.

Don't get me wrong, there are reasons to nerf things.

When something is put into the game and it's even well thought out, and it is easily accessible to a new player and makes them do a map wide nuke with one button, yeah, it's time to re-evaluate.    

What you aren't understanding is there is several problems at work:

The valkyr nerf is in response to a bunch of crybaby valk mains that were upset that half her kit is going away to every frame... well... they should be asking for a rework... Easy for me to say right?

Except that I'm a nidus main.  The only ability I ever consider casting in 99% of missions is larva.  I'm happy other players get to use it, I think it will be cool.  That's 100% of my usable kit, not counting his passive which is the main reason I use him anyway, but yeah, from castable abilities, that's 100% of his use in almost all situations.

That said Nidus doesn't need a rework, his kit is great.  Valkyr on the other hand is an old lady from the days of yore and she's got a good layer of dust on her, asking for a rework was the proper decision, but those players cried to the devs instead.

With Rhino we have a different problem.  First, roar shouldn't have been picked, or if it was, they should have mentioned ahead of time it was 80% or w/e.

The problem is... you either nerf it into the ground, or you give it a love tap.  The love tap does nothing meaningful and makes it still the first choice of dummyframe players.  The only reason to do that is to quell the people crying about it, just like the valk mains.  It still remains the top choice for many, only now with a bitter taste in their mouth, not that it even matters because unless you're building 300 PS to begin with it barely matters, and even then, I can one shot through steel path without rhino roar so... extra damage is kinda not needed if you build properly, but it does serve a function...

Players that are MR 15  8 can dump their rhino when they get the prime and have an ability to carry them through the little content there is and then prepare for the endless grindfest that is everything past MR 16.

So nerfing really, either makes it a non choice, or it makes it sour grapes and nothing else.

Additionally the lowering of the MR means players can clear all actual story content and star chart that much faster and easier that much earlier, and also still have yet another system to learn too early and overwhelm them, and then also, nothing to look forward to that they have to work towards... and the system as a whole will end up being managed just like rivens, mark my words.

Anything "too good" will be nerfed into the ground for being popular and good, rather than taking trash and making it better.  What DE wants is everything to be equal and boring and valid, which is the wrong way to do it.  The better way is to let the meta develop, then change it up by adding something better.  That's literally every game as a service that has been successful since forever.

I'd also like to point out that well of life and air burst were buffed... and they are still trash abilities and non choices.   If that's the level they want everything at, then yes, players are right to be frustrated and upset with them.

Except no one knows what the nerf exactly is.

[KlaussKlauss]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m genuinely considering deleting the Rhino I built to subsume. So trust me I’m getting there.

Why tho? I will be doing the opposite.

I will subsume Roar and War Cry first, regardless of first nerf, second nerf, trade ban for subsuming Roar 100 times, etc.

There are very few other abilities on that list that I care about. Larva is good (we will se how it's gonna be in nerfed version) but I am not farming Nidus again if ability is nerfed. Don't care about energy so they can nerf Dispensary to 0.1 milliseconds for all I care (lol if DE see thing, I was just joking, man; really don't do it).  

Giving an empty system = free time => that is why OP is joyful, he can carry out with irl activities not worrying about Warframe FOMO.

Warframe is a power fantasy. Dunno why some still argue that this wasn't confirmed by DE, or God, or whatever. If they don't give a good ability no need to grind the system. Easy peasy lemon squeeze. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, KlaussKlauss said:

Why tho? I will be doing the opposite.

I will subsume Roar and War Cry first, regardless of first nerf, second nerf, trade ban for subsuming Roar 100 times, etc.

There are very few other abilities on that list that I care about. Larva is good (we will se how it's gonna be in nerfed version) but I am not farming Nidus again if ability is nerfed. Don't care about energy so they can nerf Dispensary to 0.1 milliseconds for all I care (lol if DE see thing, I was just joking, man; really don't do it).  

Giving an empty system = free time => that is why OP is joyful, he can carry out with irl activities not worrying about Warframe FOMO.

Warframe is a power fantasy. Dunno why some still argue that this wasn't confirmed by DE, or God, or whatever. If they don't give a good ability no need to grind the system. Easy peasy lemon squeeze. 

Because if DEs response to the Helminth system going forward is just going to be “nerf what’s popular. Don’t buff what’s unpopular”. Then there’s no motivation to ever engage with this system. It’ll just get progressively worse and they’re already starting very poorly.

[ChromaUmbra]

How dare you post such a thing!  Didn't you know that being excited for the update is illegal on these forums?

[BlackCat500]

On 2020-08-21 at 2:04 AM, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Thank you guys for even introducing such an awesome system. The open world looks amazing and I'm excited for all the features and lore. 

This game seems great at breaking barriers and you've provided an entirely new world of possibilities that I'm excited to experiment with. 

I'm personally especially excited about having another avenue for our operators to shine with the new Mech system and whatever the next open world big boss will be, too! 

Cheers.

Someone who likes the system including its new nerfs. I never wanted this system -- post- or pre-nerf -- because I already hate how much powercreep we have. But here's someone who likes it. We disagree, so I should get out my torches and pitchforks and murder you and DE now, right? Right? No, you go have fun and enjoy that system. I don't care. There's a chance it won't change the nature of the game and there's a chance the nerfs are barely even significant, only preventing the real frames from being outshone. We don't even know. I wonder how much fo a neverending stream of dislikes this post would get if dislikes were a thing. That'd be kinda fun to see.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, BlackCat500 said:

Someone who likes the system including its new nerfs. I never wanted this system -- post- or pre-nerf -- because I already hate how much powercreep we have. But here's someone who likes it. We disagree, so I should get out my torches and pitchforks and murder you and DE now, right? Right? No, you go have fun and enjoy that system. I don't care. There's a chance it won't change the nature of the game and there's a chance the nerfs are barely even significant, only preventing the real frames from being outshone. We don't even know. I wonder how much fo a neverending stream of dislikes this post would get if dislikes were a thing. That'd be kinda fun to see.

Do you think I'd care if I got dislikes? 

A lot of people use to believe a lot of silly stuff, didn't mean they were right or logical about it. Remember how women couldn't vote and how the country had to fight for a minimum wage or like thousands of other examples where the majority was wrong? 

You don't intimidate me and I care 0% what you think at all.

[BlackCat500]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you think I'd care if I got dislikes? 

A lot of people use to believe a lot of silly stuff, didn't mean they were right or logical about it. Remember how women couldn't vote and how the country had to fight for a minimum wage or like thousands of other examples where the majority was wrong? 

You don't intimidate me and I care 0% what you think at all.

I...didn't even criticize you, in fact I encouraged you and everyone else to have an opinion, regardless of how much the outraged mob will want to put your head on pike after. I said what I said because I clearly don't care about it myself. I suppose I could have tried to wedge in a few more emotes to make it seem less serious, but...ah well, don't care. I don't care about either side of this argument anymore. Just seeing that thread having over 200 pages with the same constantly recurring rhetorics and outrage gives me hives. I just liked hearing about the opinion of someone who didn't mind the changes as much.

[Hypernaut1]

On 2020-08-20 at 10:50 PM, Miyabi-sama said:

Are they paying you for this? Don't get me wrong but every time I see your comments it's like shining and rainbows everywhere. Duuh.

With all the salt thats so common on forum, the real question is if some of you are being paid to play WF like a job instead of playing it for fun. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 hours ago, ChromaUmbra said:

How dare you post such a thing!  Didn't you know that being excited for the update is illegal on these forums?

Apparently being excited for anything anywhere is illegal, cuz DE will just nerf it.

[UdsUds]

Really I'm hype too man! I just don't understand why people crying over "NERF" if the content is NOT OUT YET the term is "ADJUSTED"......

[CopperBezel]

I think they're trying to frame it as the abilities themselves having an existing value and that they are "nerfed" within the Helminth system by coming with reduced numbers when put on another frame, I.e. Roar is "nerfed" on Wukong or whatever. That isn't stopping them from talking exactly as if it's a nerf in every other sense, and when it's an internal mechanic we talk about buffs and debuffs, not buffs and nerfs, but outrage machines don't run on nuanced language. 

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

With all the salt thats so common on forum, the real question is if some of you are being paid to play WF like a job instead of playing it for fun. 

Yeah, I have more sympathy for the handful of people who are upset that the Helminth system exists because it changes their game, vs. the people who are screeching that it's not going to give them big enough numbers. What stake can they possibly have in numbers they don't know in something that doesn't yet exist?

But to the OP's point, I'm really excited about this. Admittedly, there are a lot of frames with just-bad abilities (lots of 1s and lots of 4s) that we'll be able to replace now, and that's the biggest draw, but having 43 options with maybe 15 that don't suck for that spot is some real customization and fun potential. And then there's the ability to round out or specialize frames by broadening or narrowing their kits, like giving Trinity some CC or building Nova for pure nuking, meaning a bit more real variety in how these frames can be used.

And on top of all of that, there's the game of finding ability and frame pairings that have unexpected synergies. I'm going to be trying Roar, whatever its percentage, and Nourish Strike on Wisp, since she's a buffer who builds for strength and has a damage ability that double dips on these kinds of buffs and a useless 4. And I'd already decided that Molt is my Protea's new 4, but then realized that the decoy will likely be able to pick up shield grenades since it can normally take those kinds of buffs, so, bonus! Excalibur's a dude with one good melee ability and Wukong is an interesting melee frame who lacks that little bit of punch - Radial Blind goes on Wukong's 4. 

I do hope the reduced abilities work to prevent us from seeing nothing but the same six abilities. It got pretty silly while Cloud Walker was good and I saw nothing but Wukongs - I'm intermittently reluctant to use him because I just still expect to see all eight of us line up at the extraction point looking a bit silly.