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Lowering the helminth MR requirements only hurts the playerbase at large.


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So with the latest dev workshop notes it has been said that the Helminth chrysalis system requires mastery rank 8 to access instead of mastery rank 15.

And now before anyone gets the wrong idea, this isn't a post about elitism and hating new players.

 

This change makes no sense whatsoever, how many mr 8 players are in a position to start tossing large amounts of ''spare'' resources for leveling Helminth or making spare warframes for subsuming, DE clearly doesn't know that you can reach mr 8 less than 2 weeks, if someone helps you out a little with missions.

 

Or better yet how many mr 8 players have spare simaris standing to buy lets say another 100k costing harrow blueprint, if they have even completed the chains of harrow to begin with.

And yes sure, the is going to be atleast 1 person in the game who is near mastery rank 8 and has grinded bunch of resources, but the wast majority at that rank is not in a good position to actively benefit from the helminth system.

So whats the issue here then, you may ask, oh its simple.

 

All it takes is 1 new player in the forums to complain how the ''end game experienced player system'' is unfair to NEW, And after that DE will rush reduce the resource cost so you can get helminth to max rank with 50k nanospores and alloy plates.

This has been seen ''recently'' with the railjack manufacturing costs and nightwave crime scene resolite changes. And it is common knowledge to anyone who played warframe more than 10 minutes that DE favors new and very casual players over fans from multiple years.

 

Naturally DE could disprove this whole thread by showing the accurate data, but they probably wont so lets look at some steam statistic steam gives us.

Note, the number of total steam warframe users is unclear and the 50 million registered users are split among 4 platforms so it cant be used as a reliable baseline.

But on steam, we still have these numbers showing few things.

34.2% Have done ANY action to customize a warframe

19.6% of people have more than 1 warframe.

10.2% have reached the rank of silver disciple [MR 8]

 

BUT! like I said, what are the numbers in reality, since we cant use the baseline of 50 million players its unclear what these numbers actually are, But this allready shows how big the casual audience in warframe is, I mean the sheer amount of dead accounts should make that clear.

 

And again, Anyone within DE could come here and show the actual data and prove me wrong. [at which point I will correctly edit this post should that happen]

But the whole point of this thread was that the mastery rank decrease will hurt the community as a whole, because average mr8 players cant get barely use out of the system, and the system is going to get watered down in turn by the low mr players complaining about it, which in turn will hurt the veteran community, because this whole system was supposed to be the answer for my 50 million nanospores and 30 million alloy plates.

 

And this was a golden ticket for DE to make players have actual reason to climb above mr 16, but you know guess not, and yes i think the chrysalis system should have been up in the mr 20's

(and no the standing,trade,trace cap is minimal buff at best which doesn't affect your average player much at all)

 

But I'm not unreasonable, maybe the community will cover DE for this, maybe the this thread will get hundreds of replies from mr8 players saying how wrong I am, that they have tons of spare resources, that they aren't using to build guns and frames with but please do reply, I would love to meet these people, DE's data must have shown people like these are in excess out there in the community.

 

If nothing else why does a game 7+ years in the making, have to offer 95% of its content out in less than 2 weeks of playtime when its clear many people don't even play that long on steam atleast.

Feel free to leave your opinions on this, or just call me delusional and move on to the next topic, whatever works for me, thank you for reading.

 

Also DE there is nothing ''masterful'' in taking a bad gun to a defense mission or ESO for 20 minutes and doing it over again and again for 100 times

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I'm pretty sure MR 8 was when I first started to learn a wiki existed, and also that the weird "corrosive" dual element worked weirdly well on those Neptune Grineer guys, though I didn't know why. (Armor? What's that?)
Also, I STILL had no idea at that point how the Status Chance worked (No, it's NOT a chance for you to proc the Element Damage on your weapon, it's a chance to apply the Element EFFECT on the enemy), and I thought Crit was a waste of time (Why build a CHANCE to do more damage when I can just put more on my gun? Tee hee!).

What I'm getting at is MY experience as a MR 8 was cringe-y to look back on, and DE should know better.

At this point, the Helminth and Deimos are just ONE MORE THING that will grapple onto new players, sinking its barbs and slowing them down, tricking them into wasting their time very early in the Star-Chart, and making it so a good chunk of them never end up reaching the true Character Creation screen and its Quest.


Quote: "We want to naturally guide Players through the Star-Chart and towards the Quest/Main-Story of Warframe".

Yeah? Well, you're doing a p*ss poor job at that, DE.

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Starting to think that maybe they aren't taking their own game seriously at this point. It's NOT that they're letting it die now but they're not too crazy about gatekeeping contents anymore, everything is easily accessible...they could just reward everything to us on the 10th day of login to the game. 

I also don't know why they have this strong urge to please new players. I don't have anything against new/low mastery players but the helminth system will only confuse new players. MR8 is still at the stage of collecting frames, weapons and resources, so OP is right about the resources, this is clearly a way for vets or experienced players to make use of their stockpile of resources and to spice things up a bit with their playstyle. Warframe's early game is too busy for new players but offers nothing once you get past mid game progression.

We can all agree that the Mastery Rank we have right now is not an effective way of determining ranks. One can be MR20 with only Saturn unlocked and never finished the main quests. With this system, I fear some people will never experience trying out the fun frames (you know, those frames that are fun to use but not that strong to take on any serious content). Why? Because at MR8 they can now fuse an ability on their favorite frame, so why bother ranking up more? Why bother collecting and ranking up frames when they're perfectly fine in their current MR?

As I'm typing this I realized that some players are more concerned about the forgotten frames than the devs, it's actually funny and sad.

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MR 8 is where players start grinding for plat to buy Warframe slots or sell Warframes to free up slots.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't potato any vanilla frames if I know a prime exists and just trash them after leveling. A lot of players were salty at having to regrind quest frames they sold when they found out subsuming was a thing. 

New players will complain that MR 15 lock is pushing them to buy slots to house their useless subsume fodder when grinding for mastery.

You need to grind Warframes to grind MR, but you need MR to subsume Warframes, catch 22.

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3 hours ago, Flustershy said:

This change makes no sense whatsoever, how many mr 8 players are in a position to start tossing large amounts of ''spare'' resources for leveling Helminth or making spare warframes for subsuming, DE clearly doesn't know that you can reach mr 8 less than 2 weeks, if someone helps you out a little with missions.

That's what I'm worried about and why a refined new player experience is needed: new players are simply overwhelmed with game's mechanics to the point that older players or the Wiki needs to do majority of the explaining.

Take Kuva Liches as an example, it's available as soon as the War Within is completed. New players would get jumped by Sortie level enemies they barely experienced, while struggling badly to acquire the Requiem Relics and Mods needed to kill the Lich.

This also ties into how Mastery Rank must be made a better indication of progression in the game overall, from the restrictions and perks it provides, to the Mastery Tests.

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5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

And now before anyone gets the wrong idea, this isn't a post about elitism and hating new players.

Il be the judge of that. 

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

This change makes no sense whatsoever, how many mr 8 players are in a position to start tossing large amounts of ''spare'' resources for leveling Helminth or making spare warframes for subsuming, DE clearly doesn't know that you can reach mr 8 less than 2 weeks, if someone helps you out a little with missions.

And naturally you will amass a heft chunk of Useless junk within that time Frame... 

Besides you can also reach MR 15 in two weeks + 1 Day using the exact same strategy.... 

Call me crazy but sounds pretty elitist to me.

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

 

 

Or better yet how many mr 8 players have spare simaris standing to buy lets say another 100k costing harrow blueprint, if they have even completed the chains of harrow to begin with.

If they don't have the Standing then what exactly is the issue ? 

Doesn't this problem solve itself ? 

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

And yes sure, the is going to be atleast 1 person in the game who is near mastery rank 8 and has grinded bunch of resources, but the wast majority at that rank is not in a good position to actively benefit from the helminth system.

Actually they are...  Especially if players just want to get rid of a rubbish ability like Pull or Radiant Javelin.

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

All it takes is 1 new player in the forums to complain how the ''end game experienced player system'' is unfair to NEW, And after that DE will rush reduce the resource cost so you can get helminth to max rank with 50k nanospores and alloy plates.

Yeah... and ?

Why are you trying to Gate Keep the helminth for yourself ?  I say let new players have some fun too.

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

This has been seen ''recently'' with the railjack manufacturing costs and nightwave crime scene resolite changes. And it is common knowledge to anyone who played warframe more than 10 minutes that DE favors new and very casual players over fans from multiple years.

Of course they do... It would be pretty stupid if they ignored the complaints of the players that are more likely to spend real money on the game. 

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

Naturally DE could disprove this whole thread by showing the accurate data, but they probably wont so lets look at some steam statistic steam gives us.

Note, the number of total steam warframe users is unclear and the 50 million registered users are split among 4 platforms so it cant be used as a reliable baseline.

But on steam, we still have these numbers showing few things.

34.2% Have done ANY action to customize a warframe

19.6% of people have more than 1 warframe.

10.2% have reached the rank of silver disciple [MR 8]

 

BUT! like I said, what are the numbers in reality, since we cant use the baseline of 50 million players its unclear what these numbers actually are, But this allready shows how big the casual audience in warframe is, I mean the sheer amount of dead accounts should make that clear.

Regardless of what the numbers are on steam... DE said that their largest cluster of Active players is MR 10...

The key word here is "Active"... Even if the numbers on steam were accurate it still doesn't tell you anything about the constant play habits of any group of players in any Percentile.

Naturally it's Their game and it makes sense for them to place this hot new feature that they are excited about where players can actually reach it....

It would be pretty dumb to place it after... I don't know... 200 Hydrolyst Captures or something dumb like that. Unless if they didn't care about the feature like they did with Steel Path then they can lock that however they want...

5 hours ago, Flustershy said:

But the whole point of this thread was that the mastery rank decrease will hurt the community as a whole, because average mr8 players cant get barely use out of the system, and the system is going to get watered down in turn by the low mr players complaining about it, which in turn will hurt the veteran community, because this whole system was supposed to be the answer for my 50 million nanospores and 30 million alloy plates.

Well the reason you have that many is because the game hands them out in abundance and doesn't have enough crap that requires it craft with....

This means that an MR 8 who only has a few hundred thousand of those resources has no reason to keep them any more than you do.... 

There's no difference between someone who has more or less of a somewhat useless resource specifically because it's useless.... Hence MR 8 players can just give what they have...

There Is No Issue Here 😐

And that just leaves Elitism..... 

6 hours ago, Flustershy said:

And this was a golden ticket for DE to make players have actual reason to climb above mr 16, but you know guess not, and yes i think the chrysalis system should have been up in the mr 20's

If this isn't Elitism then I don't know what it is ?

Why should players want to reach MR 16 ? 

If they are happy wherever they are then they should be allowed to stay there without feeling like they are missing out on anything other than the obvious Standing Cap increases....

 

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hace 6 horas, Nez-Kal dijo:

What I'm getting at is MY experience as a MR 8 was cringe-y to look back on, and DE should know better.

Probably every one had the same type of early start m8, i think i learned about the wiki tx for youtube videos lol.

hace 6 horas, Nez-Kal dijo:

Quote: "We want to naturally guide Players through the Star-Chart and towards the Quest/Main-Story of Warframe".

Yeah? Well, you're doing a p*ss poor job at that, DE.

+1  

hace 6 horas, Yxivi dijo:

I also don't know why they have this strong urge to please new players. I don't have anything against new/low mastery players but the helminth system will only confuse new players. MR8 is still at the stage of collecting frames, weapons and resources, so OP is right about the resources, this is clearly a way for vets or experienced players to make use of their stockpile of resources and to spice things up a bit with their playstyle. Warframe's early game is too busy for new players but offers nothing once you get past mid game progression.

DE is in the red on the money they get vs expenses . More players active = more % some one will spend money.

The move to make somthing that was clearly once meant as endgame content be a early progresion system is a clear reflection they have no clue how the playerbase works.

hace 7 horas, Flustershy dijo:

And now before anyone gets the wrong idea, this isn't a post about elitism and hating new players.

hace 1 hora, Lutesque dijo:

And naturally you will amass a heft chunk of Useless junk within that time Frame... 

Besides you can also reach MR 15 in two weeks + 1 Day using the exact same strategy.... 

Call me crazy but sounds pretty elitist to me.

Elitism or not, it's a fact that in the early stages of the game no one know what the fck they are doing, ingame new player is a jk and the ask other players chat window is a slap in the face to vet players. DE isn't able to provide usefull tutorials ... so let the playerbase teach the new players , instead of them experiencing the game. Sureeeee it will work wonderfully when we will tel them the meta weapons and the "filler" content that is not worth the time of day.

hace 1 hora, Lutesque dijo:

Yeah... and ?

Why are you trying to Gate Keep the helminth for yourself ?  I say let new players have some fun too.

It's a disrespect towards the time invested for the previous ones. But can be also considered a bit of elitism of being self identified as a veteran.

 

hace 1 hora, Lutesque dijo:

Of course they do... It would be pretty stupid if they ignored the complaints of the players that are more likely to spend real money on the game. 

People that stook around for years probably spend more money do, also mantain an economy of riven rolls etc that incentivises the buying of plat. 

They should in fact listen to all the playerbase not just a few.

hace 1 hora, Lutesque dijo:

Naturally it's Their game and it makes sense for them to place this hot new feature that they are excited about where players can actually reach it....

ye but don't say it's for experienced players when the mr you target would indicate you haven't seen 70% of the frames(haven't made the math of how many wfs takes to get to mr 8 )

But you are 100% correct it's their game and they can do what ever they want with it. WE the playerbase can only tel them how we feel abotu the changes they made/will make.

hace 1 hora, Lutesque dijo:

If this isn't Elitism then I don't know what it is ?

Ye i agree. But stil the fact remains that high mr is only appealing for thous of us that go for the 100% completion and is lacking in incentives . Not to mention that more incetives to lev up stuff means a lot more slots for stuf and potential plat sels as well.

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16 minutes ago, kaotis said:

Elitism or not, it's a fact that in the early stages of the game no one know what the fck they are doing, ingame new player is a jk and the ask other players chat window is a slap in the face to vet players. DE isn't able to provide usefull tutorials ... so let the playerbase teach the new players , instead of them experiencing the game. Sureeeee it will work wonderfully when we will tel them the meta weapons and the "filler" content that is not worth the time of day.

Indeed... Warframe is Chock Full of problems such as these...

Makes me wonder what it would be like if Valve was in charge of it.

17 minutes ago, kaotis said:

It's a disrespect towards the time invested for the previous ones. But can be also considered a bit of elitism of being self identified as a veteran.

You veterans are weird... 😐

18 minutes ago, kaotis said:

People that stook around for years probably spend more money do, also mantain an economy of riven rolls etc that incentivises the buying of plat. 

They should in fact listen to all the playerbase not just a few.

I agree... However the problem I have is that threads like these almost always are about what veterans want and rarely are the interests of new players ever acknowledged.

20 minutes ago, kaotis said:

ye but don't say it's for experienced players when the mr you target would indicate you haven't seen 70% of the frames(haven't made the math of how many wfs takes to get to mr 8 )

Fair enough.... I probably missed that part because I know better than to listen to DE 😛

20 minutes ago, kaotis said:

But you are 100% correct it's their game and they can do what ever they want with it. WE the playerbase can only tel them how we feel abotu the changes they made/will make.

Some times developers have weird reactions to player feed back... My favourite is when The developer of The Swindle got confused about all the feedback regarding the Level Generating Algorithm making Doorless Rooms that players could only access by using Bombs... Which kill the whole stealth aspect for The Rest Of The level. The players thought this was a bug...

However the developer intentionally designed the Algorithm to work that.... 

Rather than doing anything useful with this feedback he just decided to label those players not Hard Core enough to play The Swindle and well nothing productive came from the whole thing.

But Atleast he seemed like he cared about what he created.... With DE and Warframe sometimes it just seems like they are just going through with the motions when something is left in such a S#&$ty state.

29 minutes ago, kaotis said:

Ye i agree. But stil the fact remains that high mr is only appealing for thous of us that go for the 100% completion and is lacking in incentives . Not to mention that more incetives to lev up stuff means a lot more slots for stuf and potential plat sels as well.

I think MR is overrated... 

This isn't a conclusion I arrived at naturally. Like many other players I also have biases regarding what MR actually says about a specific player... So every now and then I have to train and remind myself not to be an Elitist #$&(% Bag.

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hace 4 minutos, Lutesque dijo:

You veterans are weird... 😐

Aren't we all deep down inside?  Normal is too mainstream xD.

hace 5 minutos, Lutesque dijo:

I think MR is overrated... 

Only benefit for grinding more is you get to grind more per day in standing, a bit more trades per day and the starting bonus lev on the weapons(that helps with filler weapons tbh 100%)

other than that, it's 100% overrated and pointless. It's just an objective some of us put out for ourselfs to have somthing to do 🙂.

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5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Il be the judge of that. 

And naturally you will amass a heft chunk of Useless junk within that time Frame... 

Besides you can also reach MR 15 in two weeks + 1 Day using the exact same strategy.... 

Call me crazy but sounds pretty elitist to me.

If they don't have the Standing then what exactly is the issue ? 

Doesn't this problem solve itself ? 

Actually they are...  Especially if players just want to get rid of a rubbish ability like Pull or Radiant Javelin.

Yeah... and ?

Why are you trying to Gate Keep the helminth for yourself ?  I say let new players have some fun too.

Of course they do... It would be pretty stupid if they ignored the complaints of the players that are more likely to spend real money on the game. 

Regardless of what the numbers are on steam... DE said that their largest cluster of Active players is MR 10...

The key word here is "Active"... Even if the numbers on steam were accurate it still doesn't tell you anything about the constant play habits of any group of players in any Percentile.

Naturally it's Their game and it makes sense for them to place this hot new feature that they are excited about where players can actually reach it....

It would be pretty dumb to place it after... I don't know... 200 Hydrolyst Captures or something dumb like that. Unless if they didn't care about the feature like they did with Steel Path then they can lock that however they want...

Well the reason you have that many is because the game hands them out in abundance and doesn't have enough crap that requires it craft with....

This means that an MR 8 who only has a few hundred thousand of those resources has no reason to keep them any more than you do.... 

There's no difference between someone who has more or less of a somewhat useless resource specifically because it's useless.... Hence MR 8 players can just give what they have...

There Is No Issue Here 😐

And that just leaves Elitism..... 

If this isn't Elitism then I don't know what it is ?

Why should players want to reach MR 16 ? 

If they are happy wherever they are then they should be allowed to stay there without feeling like they are missing out on anything other than the obvious Standing Cap increases....

 

First of all i have to commend you for your very thorough comment, But I also need to clear some misconceptions that you clearly have, And I do apologize for not segmenting this reply the same way you did, but by the looks of it you're no stranger to warframe forums so I could comfortably bet money that you have seen worse.

 

1st

Yes you can reach mr 15 in 2 weeks, but I gave a very lax timetable for someone who is interested in leveling their mr rank, but not to the point of grinding so hard that the cooldown between rank tests is the only thing holding them down.

 

2nd

The problem here is that a system that was designed for ''experienced players'' suddenly is given access to people it wasn't designed for, making the people complain about an issue that wasn't supposed to exist at their current tier to begin with, this in turn will result (more often than not) negative changes to the system and its original target audience.

 

3rd

The helminth system is not just for me, it is for a large portion of the playerbase, call me a gatekeeper all you want, but this system was never meant for low mr players, DE just suddenly thought that its a good idea [or 1 person in DE did], and also if being able to access 95% content almost as soon as you boot the game and all that content is not enough for you to have ''fun'' then that's just someone being a glutton.

 

4th

Again DE could prove me wrong here in an instant, but I am fairly confident that it is not the new players who are the main source of ingame purchases, Your mr 3 player is not the one to buy max tier price access packs when they don't even know what a prime frame is, its the older players who have stuck with the game and pay for the convenience of grinding less, or being able to sell their fresh prime parts for plat.

 

5th

For the record, Deimos requires mastery rank 3 to access, new players also get the improved earth launch mission thing, so new players most certainly get access to the ''new hot thing''  And also the people who get excited about the helminth system are the target audience of that system, aka not low mr players, but the players getting actual use out of the system.

 

6th

You are objectively wrong about new player not having a reason to keep the same resources as I or other veteran players do, the helminth system penalizes if you keep feeding it the same resource over and over again, the difference is that just because i said that i have plenty of resource X and Y, that doesn't mean I don't have plenty of other resources as well, An older player like me can give helminth a good wide array of different resources, while a new player does not, it is true that a new player can amass resources like nano spores and alloy plates quickly, but all the other resources are a different thing. I can provide helminth with 5 course meals for the rest of the games life cycle (extra posh as you think me elitist) where as new players cannot, and that works just like the system is supposed to, because it was never meant for mr 8 players.

 

7th

And finally yes, there is absolutely nothing wrong if you never want to go past mastery rank 6 for example. but the value of mastery ranks keeps going down, as the requirements keep getting up, and that allready shows how flawed the warframe mr system is to begin with, After mr 16 the increased syndicate standing and trading limits only benefit mass traders and void relic farmers mostly, before that you get many new weapon tier unlocks, quests, Riven mod tiers etc, And what I meant with my ''elitist'' comment is that there is virtually no difference between mr 20 player, or mr 27 player, but meanwhile, a mastery rank 2 player can do much less than mr 8, but hey if giving players incentives to play the game more is being elitist, then guess I am advocating for elitism.

 

 

And like I originally said, this change only hurts the playerbase as whole, both new and old players, and I will stand by my words till I die, and by the looks of it people agree with me.

New players get a system they don't benefit from which only makes warframe pull them in more directions than they allready are being pulled, said new players complain that the system not designed for them is unfair to them, and then said system gets watered down, and the original target audience suffers, and then were left with a system that once you play with it for 10 minutes, you're done, and wait for the cycle to begin again.

90% of said cycle being content drought anyhow.

 

But to end it this on a lighter note, I really do appreciate that you spent time and atleast some effort responding, so you have my thanks even if your views and opinions don't align with mine.

 

Edited by Flustershy
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11 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

MR 8 is where players start grinding for plat to buy Warframe slots or sell Warframes to free up slots.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't potato any vanilla frames if I know a prime exists and just trash them after leveling. A lot of players were salty at having to regrind quest frames they sold when they found out subsuming was a thing. 

New players will complain that MR 15 lock is pushing them to buy slots to house their useless subsume fodder when grinding for mastery.

You need to grind Warframes to grind MR, but you need MR to subsume Warframes, catch 22.

This was my problem with the MR15 lock (I'm MR27). A big thing about the Helminth system is subsuming old warframes when you either get all the mastery out of them, or get their prime (freeing up the slot, or replacing it with its good version)

With the lock allllll the way at 15, it was going to be forcing the hands of everyone who didn't want to refarm the frames, to keep them until they were able to feed them to the infested wall of doom. (I'm very much wishing the Helminth system had existed when I started playing, because I already trashed several quest frames when I got their primes already... and now the grind is painful to think about (I hate Simaris standing))

Anyway... glad they changed it (and wish I could have started playing after Aug25)

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Leveling up garbage equipment doesn't prove or teach any skill in Warframe.

Mastery is a bunk measure for literally anything other than "How many useless weapons I've built, leveled and discarded" and expecting it to be anything else is asinine.

Saying it will confuse new players when modding is already more complex and time intensive than Helminth is a ridiculous argument.

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

This was my problem with the MR15 lock (I'm MR27). A big thing about the Helminth system is subsuming old warframes when you either get all the mastery out of them, or get their prime (freeing up the slot, or replacing it with its good version)

With the lock allllll the way at 15, it was going to be forcing the hands of everyone who didn't want to refarm the frames, to keep them until they were able to feed them to the infested wall of doom. (I'm very much wishing the Helminth system had existed when I started playing, because I already trashed several quest frames when I got their primes already... and now the grind is painful to think about (I hate Simaris standing))

Anyway... glad they changed it (and wish I could have started playing after Aug25)

I was thinking about this too. A lot of players probably dump non-prime versions once they get the prime and would have to re-farm or buy slots to hang onto them and MR 8 is probably about the time people start actively farming prime versions. Although I remember hitting MR 12 to access a few weapons and thinking what do I need more MR for now. (I did just to make number go up) The Helminth system would have been a new MR goal at the time though.

A tip for Simaris standing, take a prowl Ivara to a Steel Path spy mission and stealth scan as you do the mission. I can hit the 30,000 standing cap on Kappa, Sedna in one mission since each scan gives about 400 standing there. I think it was about 350 a scan on Mercury.

 

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Hi...
I would like to take the opportunity to be close to so many tennos who have the answers to many things and try to understand one thing...

why the Helminth chrysalis system requires MR8 to access it and...
for unlocks ability to auto-slot ayatan stars into ayatan sculptures I need to have MR10?!

I'd also like to say, that after having read all the comments so far, I thought better about my life...
and I think it sucked that I was born bald, toothless, small and with a little 🐤
I could have come into the world, handsome and conqueror as I am today and
with a red Ferrari to take my little 🐤 for a ride!
lol

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1 hour ago, HitmanRonin said:

To be honest keeping it at mr 15 would get more players interested into getting there

I don't think the Helminth is a big enough draw for people to build and level up mediocre weapons that they might already be well past.

"Level up MR Fodder to get this new system" doesn't really seem like a smart way to advertise things.

If it were behind say, The Sacrifice then sure it would keep people interested in getting to the end of a questline for things, but MR is just a measure of how much junk you've built, leveled and deleted.

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

"Level up MR Fodder to get this new system" doesn't really seem like a smart way to advertise things.

Until they realize how long it will take for them to hit max syndicate rank. With the reputation requirement of 5,000; 22,000; 44,000; 70,000; and 99,000 that's a total of 240,000 reputation needed - 27 days for a MR 8 player. And that's assuming they don't encounter bad rng-tributes like what happen in Fortuna.

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2 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Until they realize how long it will take for them to hit max syndicate rank. With the reputation requirement of 5,000; 22,000; 44,000; 70,000; and 99,000 that's a total of 240,000 reputation needed - 27 days for a MR 8 player.

That is a completely different story, a player theoretically can take it slowly and still get down syndicates at low MR, putting an MR lock on something makes it impossible to progress until you waste time leveling up gear to unlock things.

Ironically a Syndicate is a better passive encouragement to leveling up MR than just saying "MR15+ or GTFO".

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The problem is by and large feeding the wall of doom, warframes. Get rid of that then holding onto warframe (even though new players don't have any slots to do so) won't be a burden. It's a New Player trap. You can't sell off warframes since you need it to be used for Helminth. You can't get new warframe because there's not enough slots. Would of been great if having a Rank 30 warframe just unlock the ability instead of feeding the whole unrank warframe to the wall.

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24 minutes ago, Aldain said:

That is a completely different story, a player theoretically can take it slowly and still get down syndicates at low MR, putting an MR lock on something makes it impossible to progress until you waste time leveling up gear to unlock things.

Ironically a Syndicate is a better passive encouragement to leveling up MR than just saying "MR15+ or GTFO".

The problem I have having faith in that is the forums showing that most may not. The times I see those at a low MR stating there's no reason to keep going while ignoring some underrated benefits really makes me question how they don't want to be in a better position.

"Wasting time" to gain MR is a one time done deal. Even though they know that their MR affects the amount of daily standing they can get, the amount complaining that it was too high convinces me it wasn't encouraging enough.

Edited by NekroArts
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2 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Even though they know that their MR affects the amount of daily standing they can get, the amount complaining that it was too high convinces me it wasn't encouraging enough.

That's the thing, in a game you don't swap positive encouragement with negative when positive isn't working, you find another way to better frame what you're positively encouraging a player to do.

There's a large difference between telling a player "You CAN'T do this until X MR" vs telling them "You CAN get these benefits from raising MR".

It is always best to avoid gating things off behind unrelated details as well, Helminth runs on resources and spare Warframes, MR contributes to neither of those, all base Warframes are available at MR0 and Resources are tied to nothing related to MR grinding.

Conversely if they cordoned it past The Sacrifice, a quest, it becomes a progression issue, complete the Star Chart and quests and gain those benefits along the road to the goal set by the player.

Nothing about MR pushes a player forward, it just causes the same repetition that they already will run into at some point solely to get to something new, quests and even faction standing does push a player forward though, because it gives clear feedback of progression and unlocks things at consistent pace, rather than the disjointed pace of needing to wait on equipment to craft for 6-24 hours and then spend time leveling that equipment they might not even like.

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On 2020-08-20 at 10:58 PM, Duality52 said:

That's what I'm worried about and why a refined new player experience is needed: new players are simply overwhelmed with game's mechanics to the point that older players or the Wiki needs to do majority of the explaining.

Take Kuva Liches as an example, it's available as soon as the War Within is completed. New players would get jumped by Sortie level enemies they barely experienced, while struggling badly to acquire the Requiem Relics and Mods needed to kill the Lich.

I'm currently mr23. at mr8, and really at mr3, I relied on the wiki completely just to understand what I needed to do after reaching the plains of eidolon. much less game mechanics. 

at MR10 I thought I was tough 💩 cuz I had a 3 forma braton prime and a 3 forma cassowar that could slice and dice everything I saw (mind you I only saw level 35-45 enemies at this point) then I got bored with just collecting resources and decided to figure out how to get my stinking personal quarters set up. then... I started fighting sentients and that's when I realized I wasn't 💩 

basically, I agree that a lot of content is introduced far too early into the game. liches should be MR 15. helminth should be 16. 

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As part of the Veteran Community, I say this is looking like some elitist crap here. No this isn't going to harm the community as a whole whether its casuals or veterans. If anything this will help make the game last longer because new players will have something new to look forward to & then when they use the helminth system they may love it or dislike it, its up to the player to decide on that but another thing is that the new players experiencing this has more ways to customize their playstyle &  play differently. Don't try & say that this is gonna mess up the veteran community or the whole community as a whole. You don't speak for everyone.

 

Edited by Blaudari
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Mastery ranks means nothing. It only shows how much garbage weapons you have leveled. Mastery ranks gates are stupid. Except liches because accidentally creating a Lich without proper tools to kill him can seriously mess up new player's progression.

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