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Heart of Deimos: Necramech Feedback Megathread


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Finally reformatted my Necramech, how is 60 capacity supposed to cover 12 slots? I calculated the capacity with every slot polarized, and still couldn't contain 12 ranked mods intended to fill them. Max polarization would also prevent any interchange to. Maybe make it 80 capacity?

I'm also having terrible vehicle transition bugs, Archwing won't activate after using the Mech, and swapping into K-drive to correct it has a high likelihood of dropping me out of the map, and the failing unstuck command to boot. 

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26 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

 

I'm also having terrible vehicle transition bugs, Archwing won't activate after using the Mech, and swapping into K-drive to correct it has a high likelihood of dropping me out of the map, and the failing unstuck command to boot. 

That's been going on for  a while and it is the least of my concerns, didn't even bother pointing that out lol.

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In my experience the mechs are very fun to use, however extremely limited and causes numerous gamebreaking bugs on top of being buggy in general right now. I do however expect that the bugs will be fixed so ill focus more on the mechs in general.

They really need vacuum, enemy radar and loot radar either built in or work as normal if you have it on your pet. On top of that they /really/ need a way for self healing and more energy regeneration. Right now if you take one into a high damage fight you are basically unable to evade most incoming fire and once your energy runs out you die because the second ability runs out. Hell, id say that if you get an inaros with a dispensary and an archgun you're better off using him over the mech in practically every single instance where the mech is otherwise useful.

In lower level stuff it works decently enough as it is apart from the bugs but is again severely limited by its near nonexistant energy pool. Even in the lv30 bounties on deimos i find myself saving all energy for the mechs second ability and nothing else because its the only way to keep it alive long term.

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The Necramechs are a lot of fun to pilot, but they also have some serious downsides. 
 

i start with the good points: 

- The sounds and the feeling of piloting a Big massive Mech is damn near perfect! Even the Gun that came with the mech adds to the experience. The Gunfeeling is absolutely gorgeous!

- The Necramechs give a nice change to gameplay, as even squishy frames can go up against masses of enemies when they transfer to the Necramech.

 

the Bad points:

- the UI changes from whatever you have chosen in the options to the Standard Gold theme. That is annoying!

- you loose all the utilities from your Companions, like Enemy/Loot Radar and Vacuum. This should be changed. But I would be okay with only the Passive Companion Powers being able to interact with the Necramech.

- The Necramech lacks Shieldgating. More than once I had an Attack take the last thousands of my Storm shroud and also killing the Necramech instantly. This makes the Necramechs nearly unusable in Steelpath missions or against hard hitting Enemies. Even a small 0.5 sec grace period after the Stormshroud is depleted would greatly add to the Experience.

- You are unable to heal the Necramech with nearly everything except Trinity and Vazarin. As the Necramechs come from an Operator syndicate we should be able to heal them using our operators. It would be nice if we could repair them with our Amps just like we can Repair Voloid/Otakk in the Isolation Vault Bounties.

- Resummoning the Necramech reduces its health to about 1500 and that is really infuriating if your Mech had more than 4000 health left before Resummoning. This should either be fixed through a reduction of the Cooldown based on the percentage of the remaining health. Or just take the last Health value the Frame had.

- the Mod Energy isn’t sufficient to have a support a Mod in every Mod Slot. I would like to see the Necramechs get the same functionality as The Paracesis and the Kuva Weapons, where each forma(up to 5) gives two more Ranks which results in 10(20) more Mod energy.

Edited by Darkuhn
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On 2020-09-06 at 9:36 PM, Nailclipper said:

Necramechs are too heavy for Archwings to lift in atmospheric conditions. It should be fine in space though, Archmechs would just be a bit sluggish to move around.

think how gundam are like on ground they dash around with some gundam have some flight. i am only talking about ones that can't fly on planets but dash every where while in space all gundam and mobile suit can freely move. If gundam did not have thrusters like necramech they would be slugish as well.

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Now that they moved some mods to the rep I have 4 empty mod slots and am out of capacity on my mech (only formaed twice so far). 

As many others have already said, I feel like the kuva weapon mechanic of increasing capacity per forma would make a lot of sense here given how many mod slots mechs have and considering I would expect additional rare and higher capacity mods in the future. 

Edited by Borg1611
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Can we get some kind of invulnerability for the mech companions like our Warframe has once you transfer to your Necramech? Pretty much every time I jump in my Necramech, enemies will still attack my Warframe and/or companion and either their attacks or AoE ends up killing my poor helios.

-Valdala

Edited by Valdala
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I want to be able to do two more things with a Mech:

1. Trample smaller enemies. Squish the smallest ones.

2. ROCKET JUMP!

Nope. It's three things i want:

3. Earthquake landing. Somewhat proportional to the fall.

And don't work those into into mods. Because then we never gonna use them.

Edited by kazenioware
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Here's my suggestions to make the Necramech better:

  • You need to buff / change the mech's first and third abilties.  Throwing these canisters feel like wasted energy, same with these bomb clusters who somehow manage to dissapear without having dealt any significant damage most of the time. They need better damage / range / scaling / efficiencly to be worth using because right now, I'll always use that energy to shield myself and to use my exalted turret... Swear if i could I would subsume dispensary on that first ability so bad... 
  • Mechs need a way to heal that doesn't require a warframe / focus school / warframe aura. Not sure why they can't just use health orbs... But it's really annoying to have to choose a specific frame / focus school not to have our mechs die.
  • Why can't I recast my shield while in turret mode. Really sucks to constantly have to disengage turret mode to reactivate shield, then reactive turret mode, only to have to redo the whole thing 30 seconds later because the shield only has like 1500 Health and i'm immobile.
  • Likewise, they still only have 1500 hp after being resummoned...
  • Still annoying how long it takes to recharge a Mausolon from 0 to 300 bullets. This makes the weapon somewhat useless for high lvl content.
  • Stamina is still a little too short even with Thrusted. I mean, if you want mechs to be able to keep up with archwings, you need to make sure we have enough stamina to at least travel the distance without having to take multiple breaks catching our breath.
  • Also , we need a proper jetpack on that thing arlready. Jumping and floating has it's limits, and having a jetpack , even if it's only for short distances, like let's say to bullet jump up and you can jetpack upwards for some distance would go a long way to make the mechs more versatile in non-flat terrains.
  • You guys made a necramech-oriented open world, yet there isn't any worm large enough to swallow a necramech to allow you to return to the surface after a vault...  Forcing PPL to abandon them after each vault. Another added benefit of adding a bigger worm exit would be it would slightly avoid having 4 ppl waiting for their turn to activate the single worm...
  • Likewise, some of the vault entrances are too small for the mech... Forcing you to ditch him, which is really stupid in the open world that was released with the mechs...
  • You probably also need to touch terrain slightly in regards to that huge fissure in the ground that's a pain to traverse with mechs. Maybe put more vines up top so we can traverse them, more ways to climb up because right now it can really suck if you have to climb up there with a mech.
  • Give them more modding capacity as you put formas in them like Kuva Wpns. This would fix the fact it's physically impossible to slot in a full build AND would make them less of a ridiculous forma sink. I mean i'm not putting 8+ formas every time you guys make a new necramech.
  • I would also suggest creating a Melee Subsection , where you could equip the current melee focused mods there to buff the necramech's melee capacity. Would also give room to grow for when you will inevitably allow us to use Arch Melee weapons on our mechs... Because right now there's simply no room to slot in Melee Range / Attack Speed / Damage / Slam Damage... And thus these mods are kinda useless.
  • Likewise, you need to buff melee to be faster and actually worth using if you intend ppl to slot in those mods.
  • Similarly, Melee Slam only works when it feels like it , and it needs to be tweaked so it always triggers when you want it to, and it deals proper damage without the mech staying vulnerable for a couple seconds on the ground after each melee slam.
  • I think you need to tweak the activation method of the slide attack. It's really cumbersome to have to do a jump , followed by double tapping dash while activating run toggle. Surely there's a more intuitive way to toggle the boost move.
  • The .2 Drop rate on gold mods is frankly indecent , and it needs to get buffed. Make all Damaged Necramech Parts have 25% drop rate, and give a much higher drop % on mods (could probably be 50% mod drop chance instead of 10% , and rare mod should be 5-10% of mods, not 2%, which ends up being 0.2% when you do the math currently.
Edited by Tenno_Cobra
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BATTLE ROYALE STYLE MECH PVP!!!!

Ashisogi Tenno said it first and after he said it i have become obsessed with the idea. This would be a great game mode for conclave happening on the open worlds and another reason aside from (BIG DMG) to get a mech and another use for the open worlds after grinding the various syndicates, as well as using it for gauss memes and captura. Warframe is so expansive that you could literally put fornite in the game and make it work in a gears of war - scifi space ninja type way

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Now after many of the bugs have been (mostly) ironed out and the Necramech is usable, I have tried out the real thing in various bounties with friends and roaming the Cambion Drift alone.

  • Your pet is very vulnerable, you have no means of healing it (forget about Pack Leader with the mech's pitiful melee), meanwhile the mech has no radar or vacuum. Hence I propose that:
    • The pet despawns in the same way it does when you are in Archwing
    • Vacuum/Fetch and (Primed) Animal Instinct remain active while you are in the mech and the pet is despawned.
  • Melee attacks are terrible, and the tiny hand animation looks as if we are supposed to hold an Archmelee weapon. That would probably alleviate all issues with its melee damage, reach etc.
  • Can we please have a marker above the mech when we leave it? I know we can teleport it to us but that is on a cooldown, which is the same cooldown that is needed in case it is destroyed, so I try to return to it and enter it where I left it, but it is often very hard to find it again especially given the terrain and vegetation on Deimos blocking line of sight a lot.
  • Adding Necramech mods to Loid's store was a good start, but either he should sell all the mods, or the remaining ones should be Isolation Vault bounty rewards (just replace all the relics with these mods). Right now there is little point purchasing these mods because by the time you have farmed all the other mods that are still drop-only at this ridiculously miniscule drop chance, you'll have the mods from Loid's shop anyway.
  • Movement with the mech is generally good, it feels satisfyingly heavy and massive, but some things just seem needlessly clunky.
    • Please remove that animation where you are locked in place after a forward charge.
    • Sprinting should not cost stamina, only the jetpack hover and forward charge.
  • Right now the mech has no means of reliable self-healing. Apparently it is supposed to use red orbs, but they heal very little compared to its big health pool, you cannot rely on them dropping by random chance in sufficient mounts to keep the mech alive, and not even Dispensary's bigger health orbs don't work on the mech (bug?). You have to pick a Warframe and/or Operator Arcanes or Focus school for the express purpose of healing the mech. This is the exact same problem that plagues Archwing, and why Amesha is the most popular - the other ones have nothing to heal themselves up when damaged and suffer a constant battle of attrition.
    • Since Warframe auras work in Archwing and Necramech mode, I propose that Warframe Arcanes should behave the same, and apply not just to the Warframe but all vehicle modes as well.
    • Health orbs should heal a Necramech at least 4x more than a Warframe, and Dispensary's health orbs should work on the mech as well.
Edited by Mephane
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@[DE]Steve / whoever is in charge of these guys, as some one who's played entirely too much Armored Core, I strongly suggest someone on the team check out that series for a little inspiration.

Movement's the big one
- As long as you aren't actively boosting (direction + tap shift) or charging (direction + tap and hold shift) the boost gauge should immediately start refilling
- Sprinting should not consume any boost gauge because...
- The tap and hold input doesn't mesh well with toggle sprinting, and sprinting runs downs the gauge which leaves you stuck with walking. You then have to wait till the gauge is      empty to toggle sprint back off. The input for the forward charge should just be (direction + hold shift).
- Simply tapping shift shouldn't cause them to boost forward. It also toggles auto sprint.
- The forward charge is fine, but boosting left, right or backwards should cause the mech to slide-strafe along the ground and allow you to fire while doing so.
- There should be a way to expend boost gauge to rise higher into the air. The chasms on Deimos can easily leave you in a spot where you have to abandon your mech because         they simply can't jump high enough to get over/ out of a gap.

In Armored Core you move by sliding across the ground while boosting and you tap boost to allow the boost gauge a moment to refill. Both AC and WF are very fast paced games, so a similar style of control like I outlined above would mesh well, while also preventing the necramechs from being reduced to just walking, which would also help them keep up other players on PoE/ Vallis/ Deimos, which would help prevent us from just having to leave them behind.

- They need either an inherent enemy/ loot radar and vacuum, or they need to inherit our companions enemy/ loot radar and vacuum. This nonsense with someone thinking basic QoL functions are somehow overpowered or need to be limited in some way needs to stop. The Vacuum discussion, then Fetch, then Railjack loot AoE, enough already. Just add it on. There aren't even any pieces of the dead horse left to whip.

- Add the option to change the HUD coloring. Tie it to energy color maybe. It becomes very hard to see it depending on the environment colors, especially on Deimos.

- Either allow them to equip archmelee weapons, or take another note from Armored Core. In AC you pipe a little energy/ exhaust from the engine out through a blade emitter on your ACs left hand. Operators are the mechs engine, just add a blade of void power onto the already existing animation emanating from the mechs hand, boost the strength and range, allow mods to affect it. That's much more badass than taking a swipe with a tiny T-Rex arm, and would only need some particle effects and number tweaks to pull off.

The mod drop rate is still abysmal. I have more than enough matrices to max my standing multiple times. Adding only four mods to Loid's shop didn't help much. Either add all of them, same as the vent kids shop, or balance the drop rates so none of them are lower than a 10% chance. And that 10% should include the double roll of rng as to whether or not a mod even drops in the first place. The chance to drop a mod at all reducing the chance to acquire certain mods to all of 2% on an enemy we can only fight 6 of in around 20 minutes ain't gonna cut it. They aren't the same as endless waves of grineer we fight in any mission, and that needs to be taken into account.

Other than that, the interaction breaking bugs are definitely an issue, but plenty of other people brought those up. A good mech system hasn't been released in a while, and while Necramechs are very rough around the edges, I hope you guys don't abandon them like AW and RJ, because even with that roughness they're still fun. Some tweaks and polish to movement would help a lot, and finally add something new worth getting off of enjoyment and cool factor alone.

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i will suggest the most basics of things

add melee stats on the mod UI of the necramech, we need to know what changes all these melee mods do exactly, are they just placebo? or are they making some significant change to have them equipped

return the "-" polarity we lost on the arquebex with the last hotfix, i was using it, and don't feel right to use a forma to recover my build

 

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20 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

Armored Core, I strongly suggest someone on the team check out that series for a little inspiration.

It would be also nicer if the Necramech wasn't a silly golden pinecone that looks like a mook, but beautiful like well-built Armored Cores are.

 

Also, naughty naughty posting about AC when that only makes one 😢 that there will never be an Armored Core 6 (much less Armored Souls) and that DxM PC version is never going to get the post-launch and modding support it deserves as stand-in Armored Core 6.

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This won’t ever happen but I can dream, can’t I?

Every once in a while I get a bug where my mech is rendered as just a pod with a gun floating about. I have named this my ‘Angry Caterpillar’ form and would love a skin for it once we get to the point of having cosmetics and such. 

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2 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

It would be also nicer if the Necramech wasn't a silly golden pinecone that looks like a mook, but beautiful like well-built Armored Cores are.

Yeah Necramechs could definitely use some art design inspiration from AC as well. The only one we got so far is reminiscent of a bog standard MT. They need to release some Necramech parts with smooth Mirage curves or clean Crest lines at some point. Being able to use them in regular missions would be cool too.

2 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

Also, naughty naughty posting about AC when that only makes one 😢 that there will never be an Armored Core 6 (much less Armored Souls) and that DxM PC version is never going to get the post-launch and modding support it deserves as stand-in Armored Core 6.

As sad as it is to realize this, I don't think it's even possible to match the glorious insanity of the PS2 era AC games anymore. Thankfully they all work on emulators with a good enough PC. The minimalist story, the brutal difficulty, the sheer amount of customization, the music and the atmosphere it all created. Good god the music. Especially in AC3 and SL. The learning curve/ vertical wall turned a lot of people off of the the series, but those of us that went through it will always be Ravens.

I really hope DE doesn't abandon an opportunity to make a halfway decent mech system, because we've had almost nothing when it comes to mech games for too long, and WF has all the ingredients to pull it off.

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7 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

...
I really hope DE doesn't abandon an opportunity to make a halfway decent mech system, because we've had almost nothing when it comes to mech games for too long, and WF has all the ingredients to pull it off.

There are Mechwarrior Online and MW5. Also Battletech by Harebrained Schemes (a top down tactical game).

I like both the AC series and Battletech universe.

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Turn speed.

Spin camera to aim behind, hold right mouse button. VWOOP. Instant 180.

IT's a heavy machine of solid metal. NOt infested flesh. Not cloned flesh. Not even a light and agile Moa that can race across the ground.

IT should take time to turn. For player AND enemy.

It's not funny at all to take a potshot at the glowing spot on the back then instantly get a facefull of laser and landmines.

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Yea, the enemy Necramechs at least need a turning cap, or something else to make them stand still for a moment. We've had this particular problem since Thumpers, you shouldn't have weak spots (that are the only part that takes damage too) hidden on the other side of the enemy if that enemy will just instantly turn to face the player.

 

9 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

As sad as it is to realize this, I don't think it's even possible to match the glorious insanity of the PS2 era AC games anymore. Thankfully they all work on emulators with a good enough PC. The minimalist story, the brutal difficulty, the sheer amount of customization, the music and the atmosphere it all created. Good god the music. Especially in AC3 and SL. The learning curve/ vertical wall turned a lot of people off of the the series, but those of us that went through it will always be Ravens.

Personally I think the PS3 era games were the peak of the series. Faster, more intense, and all that, besides the sputtering starts each numbered entry (since 4 is meh aside from gameplay concepts, and V too suffers from lack of content and refinement; huge technoboners from the radar systems aside). For Answer is Miyazaki's mecha masterpiece and the best mecha simulator of all time. DXM proved a very pleasant surprise as well, I liked it better than Verdict Day for instance, but it doesn't have the level of depth that For Answer had mechanically. It's in many ways a kind of two-steps forward two-steps backward kinda deal, with some irritating mistakes the ex-FROM people clearly haven't learned from like not trying to deliver dialogue on the side (this also means you won't be hearing Amuro Ray and Char since you're not reading subtitles while in AC combat) when you're playing because it's like GTA trying to have dialogue while you're driving, all you can really do is either stop playing or the game has to block you from playing too well. But addition of actual pilots is great even on a conceptual level, and its proof-of-concept that a looter-shooter type procgen additional game mode is a viable and perfect fit for mecha sims, and they do so far the most successful take on giant boss enemies in the meta-franchise (since it's only a substitute AC6, not actual AC6).

1 hour ago, Nailclipper said:

There are Mechwarrior Online and MW5. Also Battletech by Harebrained Schemes (a top down tactical game).

I like both the AC series and Battletech universe.

I both like and hate the BattleTech universe. It has several neat ideas, but it's also willfully rock-stupid in some regards (for example, being an interstellar setting and pretending the walking mechs are important when logically they wouldn't be, or how similar idiot logic is deployed to basically ruin the entire premise of the Clan Invasion). Also the artwork in those old Technical Readouts is horrendous, albeit MWO onwards that's gotten fixed after some thirty years of horrible art (with the exception of the stuff licensed and the Japanese edition's replacement art by Studio Nue and the Victor Musical Industries hired art for obscure IICs). But I very much like the universe more than the AC universe, because the latter doesn't really exist except as a vague and nebulous concept that revamps itself several times, and I am not a fan of FROM's "minimalist" stories, I just call it lazy, cowardly and obtuse; at least BattleTech has genuinely interesting ideas and hooks even if fumbles many of them but it dares to try instead of hide.

But MechWarrior just can't be an AC substitute. The gameplay and mechanical depth required for that are not there (also MechWarrior to me has a pretty disgustingly low skill ceiling compared to the ballet that high-level For Answer play is). I've yet to get a crack at MechWarrior V due to some epic reasons, but I can at least hope the series will finally measure up to Heavy Gear 2 in gameplay (I am quite excited by its modding support too). The sort of annoyingly named BattleTech that will add extra confusion about which thing BattleTech is referring to (board game, setting, IP, or a video game?) is an entirely different genre altogether, and while I did like the first five hours or so of it after you start getting Heavies it gets too bloated and turns into a slog with less and less actual tactics involved and more and more into pure attrition management. And I am very very upset that HBS catered to multiplayer crowd and procgen instead of making it a linear story-heavy tactical RPG in the style of Shadowrun Dragonfall or Hong Kong with a premade party and a good story. Heck, with a premade party they could have even fixed some of the source system's longstanding problems like Tonnage and lack of real 'mech weight class role variety (so far only MechCommander has really managed to do this, since taking that Raven along was always a huge benefit).

Edited by vaarnaaarne
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On 2020-09-10 at 11:27 AM, (XB1)XEvilLordPandaX said:

think how gundam are like on ground they dash around with some gundam have some flight. i am only talking about ones that can't fly on planets but dash every where while in space all gundam and mobile suit can freely move. If gundam did not have thrusters like necramech they would be slugish as well.

If you played with FROMSOFT's Another Century's Episode (notably the 3rd game, with 2P local co-op), you will notice that the game is a lot smoother than the previous ACE games. That's what the Necramechs should feel like.

2 minutes ago, vaarnaaarne said:

Also the artwork in those old Technical Readouts is horrendous, albeit MWO onwards that's gotten fixed after some thirty years of horrible art (with the exception of the stuff licensed and the Japanese edition's replacement art by Studio Nue and the Victor Musical Industries hired art for obscure IICs).

Shut your skoom mouth; Duane Loose was great (original TRO 3025).

Matt Plog is still up for custom commissions on Deviant Art.

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