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Heart of Deimos: Necramech Feedback Megathread


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Guys relax and move on.. The team clearly needs an exceptional amount of time to address so much broken and unaccesible content. Theres new cosmetics to sell. So the bugs are backburner. Just not worth the devoted time and your ideas straight from the heart are wasting brainpower. They do not fix the big problems. Fortuna was released and everything was fine. 1 yr later crash every profit taker and exploiter bounty and crash every other regular bounty. This hasnt been fixed. I dont know why it was fine on release. This is one example.. I knew I was unnecessarily pressuring myself to make believe its all ok. Its not. Its a broken, confused anomaly of a game. I love it, but I know its impossible to sanely love it when its restrained in so many ways. Dont be like me sending your reports like a boy scout, theey do NOT have ttime.

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So, FOMO finally got the better of me, and I finally got around to trying out the Heart of Deimos quest. The Necramech part at the end was one of the worst things I have ever played.

First, piloting the Necramech: Not completely terrible. It plays like pretty much any other mech in a non-mech focused game. Its clunky, slow, and awkward, which is completely out of place in Warframe. The melee attack is too slow, and too short. And even if you actually hit something with it, its just a gentle nudge that ragdolls instead of dealing any kind of useful damage. Its primary weapon is a boring, bog standard, generic heavy machinegun. Its abilities are nigh worthless. (assuming this changes with mods, but you don't get those in the quest, do you?) And the HUD is nearly unreadable. Who thought brown on brown was a good idea?

Second, fighting the Necramech boss: This is the part that completely ruined it. There is absolutely no feedback whatsoever as to what is happening, or what you need to do. Even after I looked it up on the wiki, I still don't actually know why my shots would or wouldn't deal damage. All I saw was a swarm of grey zeroes all over it, then sometimes it would take a tiny sliver of damage, and sometimes it would take a huge chunk. I don't know how much, because the damage numbers never showed anything other than zero. And, sometimes its arms would fall off. Plus, most of its attacks were pretty much unavoidable, since you are stuck in a slow and clunky corn cob with legs yourself.

Yet, despite all that, I still won no problem. Why? Because death has ZERO CONSEQUENCES. You just come back two seconds later, with full health and energy, while the boss keeps all the damage you did to it. I am fairly certain I died around 20 times, but who cares? It could have been 50, or even 100 and it still would have been just as easy. Once I realized this, I spent most of the fight just standing in place, holding down the trigger, because effort is for losers.

I want to give some constructive feedback on how to improve this fight, but I really don't know what to say. Burn it all down and start from scratch? We both know that isn't going to happen.

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I feel like the mechs dont have a good way of getting energy. They don't have vacuum, arcanes (like arcane energize) do not work (whereas archwings actually do work). They aren't affected by Energy Siphon aura, and the operator energy dash doesnt work on it either. It seems its too hard to actually get energy economy for it, especially when Necramech flow doesnt work

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Don't know about controlling your own, but as an enemy they are just extremely bad.

Tiny area you need to hit, doesn't always even work because they have super shield ability. Insanely high damage, they can one hit KO shatter shield mesa. So far nothing else could do this. Breaking the arms doesn't actually break the arms, they just appear back.

Overall I'd give the necramechs (and the whole cambino drift as of now) frustrating and annoying out of five.

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i feel like the feedback here is being forgotten and being focused on making skins and things, and as much as i am biased being a big fricking fan of necramechs, and i hate to admit this so hard, but they were forgotten within just 3 weeks after release and despite deimos being 2 months old and them receiving two skins, there were no fixes or buffs to the necramechs, the mechs need to be affected by zenurik and health orbs, need to have the melee nockback and ragdoll effect reduced by 50% and deal percentage based damage where every melee hit removes 15% max enemy health, they need shield gating, need to have the mod drop chances increased from 0.2% to 5% or 7.5%, and to replace relics with mech mods on isolation vault bounties, gravemines need to deal 800 heat damage than 200 while balancing it out with 16 charges than 24, necraweb needs a buff were all enemies slowed/affected by necraweb grant 5% lifesteal for some self sustain, storm shroud needs to be buffed to have 1500 health than 1200, and needs to have the amplifier increased from 200% to 260%, and by all means give the mechs augments, i really do the devs read this and buff em a bit, because dang they have an incredible amount of potential.

AJSMJ.png

Edited by Timothy_Mark
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What i like about necramek:
 

1.- Size, they "feel" big and bulky, strong and thats a good thing, specially since they look like mechas, weird corn mechas but mechas non the less.

2.- Weapons on their hands feel interesting, how easily they carry them around, it helps to the feel of a big strong robot

3.- The look at first wasnt quite sold on me, specially since im a gunpla builder and fan, so im a bit more used to more sleek cool looking designes, yet it has grown on me as a very interesting concept and idea, i definitly want to se a few more ideas from them and of course varietion of powers.

What i dont like:

1.- Right now they dont feel powerfull per se, i will asume right now its because of the lack of mods to have more customization, but they dont feel like unstopable war machines

2.- The arms, its just a design niptick but the pincer la hands just....dont do it for me, while i actually like the weird leg design, the arms in general dont feel powerfull, they look somewhat weak, specially for the weapons they carry, in my personal opinion they should have some bracers/ armor to have a bulkier look

3.- Lack of melee weapons, the melee animation seems...odd...doesnt feel strong, and altought i know theres an exalted necramek on the way with a melee one i just feel the courent one shoould be able to use archwing ones to.

 

I feel the necramek has a lot of potential in the long run, i love the idea of us having new tech like the archwing and necrameks, i just feel its the natural evolution for what we do and are.

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I haven't mine yet, but I can at least feedback that I don't like playing with a necramech in the team, because it's too invasive in other players screen. The action is already hardly readable in Deimos but with a Necramech it's just a cluster fest of particles. Please tone down the vfx A LOT.

As I've read in first page, I agree that sound design is super cool, but it's too invasive for my taste, as written above.
(Also, just hope you don't have a necramech and Nekros in your team while roaming in Deimos...)

 

 

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20 hours ago, viamont said:

What i like about necramek:
 

1.- Size, they "feel" big and bulky, strong and thats a good thing, specially since they look like mechas, weird corn mechas but mechas non the less.

2.- Weapons on their hands feel interesting, how easily they carry them around, it helps to the feel of a big strong robot

3.- The look at first wasnt quite sold on me, specially since im a gunpla builder and fan, so im a bit more used to more sleek cool looking designes, yet it has grown on me as a very interesting concept and idea, i definitly want to se a few more ideas from them and of course varietion of powers.

What i dont like:

1.- Right now they dont feel powerfull per se, i will asume right now its because of the lack of mods to have more customization, but they dont feel like unstopable war machines

2.- The arms, its just a design niptick but the pincer la hands just....dont do it for me, while i actually like the weird leg design, the arms in general dont feel powerfull, they look somewhat weak, specially for the weapons they carry, in my personal opinion they should have some bracers/ armor to have a bulkier look

3.- Lack of melee weapons, the melee animation seems...odd...doesnt feel strong, and altought i know theres an exalted necramek on the way with a melee one i just feel the courent one shoould be able to use archwing ones to.

 

I feel the necramek has a lot of potential in the long run, i love the idea of us having new tech like the archwing and necrameks, i just feel its the natural evolution for what we do and are.

YES I FULLY AGREE! ARMOR UP THE ARMS! 

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Needs at least 6 meter vacuum. I also think it should have 15+(5% of max health)/s passive health regeneration while in dormant state starting 1 second after being in dormant state. Melee slam shouldn't be head first, it just looks weird, and as many have said before they should utilize Archmelee.

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I think most people here love the idea behind the necramechs being a whole new experience/way to play the game. I've always wanted a frame capable of transforming into mech suit and having a heavy machine gun with explosive rounds, so the necramech is something I am most excited about. With that being said, I have some worries about the current viability of necramechs in the game, and I desperately hope they don't end up on the chopping block in the future like archwing has.

  1. Is there a reason why necramech mods are so obscenely hard to get? Will there be better ways of obtaining them in the future? Without essential mods like Necramech Redirection, it's really hard to keep the things alive especially when leveling. I have redirection now, but trying to level without it was a real pain.
  2. Will there be more or better ways of keeping your necramech alive? Necramechs are good at damage dealing, but feel more like giant glass cannons at the moment. This is in stark contrast to the ones we fight against which are nigh unkillable at times (depending on RNG and hitboxes).
  3. Is there an estimated time as to when we can pilot these things within normal missions?
  4. Has the necramech losing affinity upon re-summoning been fixed yet?

Edit: Also please tell me they're going allow us to drive these things in normal missions.

Edited by notHunky
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Could the Necramech hover be changed from holding jump to holding aim?

It's effectively a different take on aimgliding, but on controller it basically takes away your ability to aim

Your thumb can't hold A/X and move the right stick to aim at things at the same time

Edited by (PSN)CommanderDubkip
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2 hours ago, Grave.Knight said:

The necramech either needs passive energy regenerations or the ability to use energy consumables. Right now Necramechs are rendered worthless the moment you run out of energy.

Energy pizza are never going to happen for mechs, that exalted gun is too ridiculous in terms of damage.

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Imo, Voidrig is in a good place right now. I know lots of people want them to be deployable in all missions (trust me, I'd love that too). 

I would suggest a change for the 3rd ability (the grenades). Have the grenades come out in the direction of the Necramech's reticle, rather than the direction of movement. Feels quite awkward to use. 

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2 hours ago, Hierarch777 said:

Imo, Voidrig is in a good place right now. I know lots of people want them to be deployable in all missions (trust me, I'd love that too). 

I would suggest a change for the 3rd ability (the grenades). Have the grenades come out in the direction of the Necramech's reticle, rather than the direction of movement. Feels quite awkward to use. 

actually i want more than that 

 

necraweb to have 40% increased radius and killing enemies affected by the necraweb pool grant 4% life steal 

 

for gravemines to deal 800 damage than 200 while having 16 charges than 24, and making the energy needed for the ability reduced to 50

 

and for storm shroud to have the damage absorption amplifier increased from 200% to 250%, and increasing the health from 1200 to 1500

 

and for the melee to deal percentage based damage like every hit removes 15% max enemy health, that would be perfect. 

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I tested the new Bonewidow mecha.

Here is my opinion. 

1. He is a melee mecha, i know devs are trying to put melee weapons on mecha in the future (and that would be nice), at lease for now, display his exalted blade sheated on the side.

2. His weapon 4rd ability is a joke, it needs faster swings or more range or both. More damage and less energy consumption.

4. The 3rd ability does a cone light and i dont even know what it does (the tooltip said its chaos from nyx), so yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3. The shield 2rd ability is nice but it needs more benefits for blocking and when using with his blade just block full damage (maybe it is i didnt test that so well).

5. The 1rd ability i dont think it fits in a sword mecha it feels strange, maybe if u could pull enemies from far and hit with sword.  (I dont think it will change so,  whatever).

6. I know the mecha are orokin era and they been used before warframes were made but why they didnt make them more gundam style? big legs and stuff. their legs looks weird for a mecha.

7. Overall is kinda useless right now, also we need new content to use them to kill something. (dont say eidolons or profit taker please).

The new arch gun (granade launcher)

Its a good weapon, i like it but, the skin, its horrible. When i saw it, i thought it was Place holder or something, then i realised, thats and ugly piece of thing it looks like its missing something

The Front of the orbital ITS AMAZING!

Also we need more content as everyone said we need more end game, planets, missions, raids(not as the old one was , i kinda miss them tbh)

When we gonna be able to land our Railjack on the planet do something in there and go back up and kill more stuff in space?

Also when we gonna have Orbital as a Zord? With Railjack as a head? fighting and swinging a big sword crushing asteroids, Hunhow and a bunch of sentients in space and other species from other solar systems? 

Damn i went too far.

Anyway, thanks for the update keep up the good job.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, XxBattousai said:

I tested the new Bonewidow mecha.

Here is my opinion. 

1. He is a melee mecha, i know devs are trying to put melee weapons on mecha in the future (and that would be nice), at lease for now, display his exalted blade sheated on the side.

2. His weapon 4rd ability is a joke, it needs faster swings or more range or both. More damage and less energy consumption.

4. The 3rd ability does a cone light and i dont even know what it does (the tooltip said its chaos from nyx), so yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3. The shield 2rd ability is nice but it needs more benefits for blocking and when using with his blade just block full damage (maybe it is i didnt test that so well).

5. The 1rd ability i dont think it fits in a sword mecha it feels strange, maybe if u could pull enemies from far and hit with sword.  (I dont think it will change so,  whatever).

6. I know the mecha are orokin era and they been used before warframes were made but why they didnt make them more gundam style? big legs and stuff. their legs looks weird for a mecha.

7. Overall is kinda useless right now, also we need new content to use them to kill something. (dont say eidolons or profit taker please).

The new arch gun (granade launcher)

Its a good weapon, i like it but, the skin, its horrible. When i saw it, i thought it was Place holder or something, then i realised, thats and ugly piece of thing it looks like its missing something

The Front of the orbital ITS AMAZING!

Also we need more content as everyone said we need more end game, planets, missions, raids(not as the old one was , i kinda miss them tbh)

When we gonna be able to land our Railjack on the planet do something in there and go back up and kill more stuff in space?

Also when we gonna have Orbital as a Zord? With Railjack as a head? fighting and swinging a big sword crushing asteroids, Hunhow and a bunch of sentients in space and other species from other solar systems? 

Damn i went too far.

Anyway, thanks for the update keep up the good job.

 

 

 

listen pal i like something thats from wh40k or titanfall or mechwarrior with a hollow knight spice of design with that nouveau theme, overall something that looks like its from an anime wont fit really, while the current designs look well, but i do agree the legs for the bonewidow do need to be a bit thicker, and voidrig to have more heavily armored arms, besides that your pretty right. 

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I like the necramechs, and i also like the railjack

maybe mix it up? using railjack to visit old war battlefields to hunt for gears (dax equipments, maybe augment or new upgrade customization for necramechs)

these mission would focus on using the mechs, such that certain zone of these old battlefield would have inflict penalty on operator and warframes (like damage over time, status effects, something like the condition at sortie)

heh, maybe can even toss in the lich system/railjack command in it, perhaps having sentients or infested as enemies? not sure who can it be. new factions?

just plz don't abandon the mechs...

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1 час назад, cocobunana2 сказал:

I like the necramechs, and i also like the railjack

maybe mix it up? using railjack to visit old war battlefields to hunt for gears (dax equipments, maybe augment or new upgrade customization for necramechs)

these mission would focus on using the mechs, such that certain zone of these old battlefield would have inflict penalty on operator and warframes (like damage over time, status effects, something like the condition at sortie)

heh, maybe can even toss in the lich system/railjack command in it, perhaps having sentients or infested as enemies? not sure who can it be. new factions?

just plz don't abandon the mechs...

Idea on the Dax Equipment.
A tiny minigame in a similiar vein to Nightwave's investigations, but you're in your warframe and are faster. Archaeology with a randomly generated Dax's equipment scattered around, looking for what is recoverable. First step always describes the hunt, Multiple of choices for mission, keeping some RNG elements, but having it lighter. Once you accept it, you run around the site and find clues on the Dax Equipment stash and where is it located. After that, the stash is excavated and you can try the puzzle with the facts you found around the area. You get the Dax's preferred weapon guaranteed, and a medium chance to get another weapon (all in blueprints). There's also a slightly lower chance of obtaining that Dax's armor set as cosmetics. Usually will take place in a cave or any other shelter, since the old battlefield is a wasteland in which you can quickly die.

 

Other than that, I haven't got Necramechs yet, but I enjoyed piloting Snake! It's big and clunky, like a REAL mech like those from Mechwarrior. Though enemy Necramechs have really small weakspots... Just make their weakspots slightly larger and them spin around slower and done.

Edited by mrpyro12345678
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  • [DE]Bear unpinned this topic
  • 1 month later...

For additional reference, I wanted to link the thread I made here as well (I already linked the below thread to the Bonewidow Feedback thread, and I tried to find a Voidrig thread, but this seems to be it (Much better if it involves all Necramechs actually!).

 

If anyone has any thoughts on these possible changes / additions, let me know. Especially now that Orphix Venom is on PC, the sooner something like the below changes happen, the better.

 

Original posts' text:

 

I'll list both Necramechs here, starting with a new passive effect for each, followed by some things for each of their abilities. For the most part, their abilities didn't need a lot of additions, but this was some of the best I can think of. I've been putting forma into my Voidrig to prep for when Orphix Venom arrives on consoles, but I'm still working on crafting Bonewidow, so that (The things I've listed for her) may need more tweaking, as far as she goes.

 

Voidrig:

  • Passive:  This passive will activate from your own canisters as well as those thrown by ally Voidrigs (Including AI-controlled ones, but likely not enemy Voidrigs). Both types of fluid can be in effect at the same time, each with their own durations (Could be based off of when the respective canisters activated)!

    When setting foot / getting showered in Necraweb's fluids (Based on whether it explodes on it's own, or gets shot), two kinds of effects happen.
     
    • Graviton fluids recover your Mech's HP over time at a rate of 3% of max HP / second for 12-15 seconds, depending on how close you were to the canister. Standing / walking in the fluids can accelerate HP recovery even further (But not for long, if the fluids vanish). I saw something a bit like this suggested once before elsewhere, but this has a more in-depth explanation :)
       
    • The fiery conflagration fluids (By shooting the canister) add up to 50% more Armor to your Mech until it wears off (Or when Necraweb wears off, I need to test that ability more), based on how close you were to the exploding canister. Crouching in the fluid coats your weapons in it (Probably not the Arquebex considering that isn't close to the ground when crouching), increasing their damage or rate of fire (Attack speed in Ironbride's case for Bonewidow allies!). The damage or speed increase lasts for the same duration.

      Not sure of how big an increase that should be; I thought I should leave it up to DE staff on whether the fiery fluids would boost rate of fire (Archgun fire / melee speed) or damage, although I think rate of fire could make sense, since Bonewidow would have her own speed increase.
       
      • The reason for the Armor boost is to help with Necramech surviability (& to be honest, both Necramechs need to have a passive of some kind! This would work quite well considering the below things). Pertaining to Armor, right now there aren't many Necramech mods, so Necramech Steel Fiber is the best we have aside from that.

 

  • Necraweb:   Some additions;
     
    • First off, all allies & their Necramechs benefit from your canister's fluids (No matter if they're Bonewidow or Voidrig, so I dunno if the above passive should just be part of this ability or not). The reason why Voidrig gains HP recovery is to make up for / contrast Bonewidow's Meat Hook having HP recovery. Essentially, it evens out in such a way that players have similar benefits no matter which Necramech they choose, helping both be viable & sustainable picks for a mission!
       
      • This encourages team play; & in and of itself, this could be considered like an Old War way for Necramechs to improvise against the enemy when their backs are against the wall. In other words, this might be the perfect way for them to heal in a fair way, without needing the interaction of Warframe abilities (Although that change in update 29.6.0 really surprised me).
         
    • For players who don't own a Mech or just aren't using one, this is for you!

      Ally Warframes who slide through, roll or crouch-walk through a mire of Graviton fluids become coated in them. This increases jump and bullet jump speed or height, and they fall slower (Hence the Graviton (Gravity?) implication) by some degree.

      For the fiery conflagration, it can increase melee attack speed and primary / secondary fire rate.

      Operators (Even in void mode) who slide through the mire (Since they don't crouch for some reason, but not relevant nor a problem) have their lower body covered in it, increasing their jogging / running speed by some amount (The same percentage that Warframes receive!). Animal companions may have this effect as well when running through it. The fiery conflagration could increase the damage or fire rate of their amps. Not sure what benefits it can offer while in void mode. For Warframes and Operators, they benefit from the fluids at the same duration or slightly longer / shorter as Necramechs (I'm not entirely sure).
       
  • Storm Shroud is perfect as is! I couldn't think of anything to add in and of itself for this ability.
     
    • Well, maybe except for it deactivating when you transfer out of the Voidrig, and as a result it costing energy to restart it from scratch.
       
  • Gravemines:
     
    • If it doesn't already, perhaps the mines could stagger heavier enemies (But not really big ones like Raknoids, Jackal, or Tusk Thumpers) for a moment. It could give your Mech a chance to recover HP or otherwise benefit from Necraweb's fluids! Other than that, the mines are alright as is :)
       
  • Guard Mode is very well done, I see no need or reason to change it whatsoever. The level of firepower is balanced by the activation cost & gradual drain, and the fact that you're rooted in place (Plus the animations aren't too fast nor slow!). As noted in the passive above, Arquebex wouldn't benefit from crouching in the fiery fluids; It may not need to.

 

Next up,

Bonewidow:

  • Passive:
     
    • Enemies that're killed by Meathook (Succumbing to the health drain) may drop an energy orb to fuel her other abilities. Kills from Exalted Ironbride may / will drop a Health orb / larger energy orb (To keep it going longer!). If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Iornbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.
       
    • Depending on the type of enemy skewered on Meathook, it may give her a temporary damage increase, shield damage increase, or attack speed buff (Could be based on the enemy's faction; Grineer / Corpus / Infested respectively). These buffs can stack if you skewer multiple enemies in quick succession, and they can scale with enemy level. The duration of the buff may or may not be affected by ability duration.
       
      • Orokin enemies could offer any or all three of those buffs. Sentients could lend Bonewidow their damage adaptability (A partial contrast to Voidrig's Heavy Artillery firepower!)!
         
        • Although the Sentient's Adaptability may need to be made so that it won't entirely negate a damage type against you. Maybe it could be similar to the Adaptation mod?
           
  • Meathook:   Small notes;
     
    • There should be a way to have it interact with Shield Maiden / Maiden's Kiss, perhaps while holding block you can hold your skewered enemy next to it to provide further cover? Unless that'l mess up how you can use weaponry (Holding an Archgun and an enemy at the same time, etc.).

      Other than that, Meathook is good as is (So long as you're able to stab a target accurately), in and of itself.
       
  • Shield Maiden would benefit nicely from the above option, as far as I know.
     
    • Perhaps Void energy could expand to cover a bit around the shield, or taunt enemies into focusing fire into that. When / if the Shield breaks, movement speed should go up a bit similar to how Chroma benefits to losing his Armor during Effigy.
       
    • The main issue to keep in mind with this, s depending on your energy color it may make it a little harder to see in front of you, unless the energy can be dimmed for you and allies while you / they are aiming with a weapon.
       
  • Firing Line sounds useful as is, but perhaps it should be useable while swinging with Ironbride, to create some potential combos with that weapon (The beginnings of an Archmelee stance!).
     
  • Exalted Ironbride may still need a slight base damage increase, but incorporating Bonewidow's hypothetical passive above will be useful too regardless.
     
    • Along with that (I need to test this), if the combo counter doesn't increase damage, etc. for it then that should be rectified. It would be consistent with standard melee in that case.
       
      • Exalted Ironbride may be affected by Voidrig's Necraweb (Just to reference it here) with increased attack speed. This attack speed buff can stack at least somewhat with the Meathook buff.
         
      • If a Sentient is kebabed onto Ironbride, perhaps that could improve it's effectiveness against the adapted damage of other Sentient enemies? It should perform well enough against every other faction, as they don't adapt to damage like Sentients do.

 

With all this, not only do the first abilities of each Mech have a way to heal them on their own (No need to worry about Warframe abilities, etc.), but those abilities convey useful temporary buffs that can be added at the same time. In addition, they both would now have possible passive effects that can work with their abilities (Although I'd appreciate some help with those, unless DE wanted to take it from there). I sincerely feel that this will improve both of them, especially during Operation Orphix Venom!

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Hitboxes in this game feel like dried grapes on the vine...DE could u possibly go back through the whole game and and enlarge them abroad make them juicy! When I hit something make it wince in pain. 

As it stands now all but the NEW INFESTED enemies have good hitboxes(the yellow ones)? It feels like finding a needle in a haystack and just feel off! And get the controller shake in tandem with the contact so I can feel it! 

I wished DE played their own game we wouldn't be dealing with blatant misfires like this. These sort of things should have been sorted by just thinking about it.

Brown/beige hud on flesh tone background...c'mon DE! A little foresight goes a long way.

Side notes: "all weapon HUD are crap place holders" ineffective details or lack thereof.

Why can't the mining tool tell you what color rocks are around instead of having those generic mono-tone place holder rocks to the left doing NOTHING?

Mechs should be a size bigger to fight bigger enemies as it is now its just an option with horizontal purpose? The mech has no true role!

 

 

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Maybe it's just me, but necramech enemy radar should be passive instead of a mod slot waste. And please make the usual healing sources also heal necramechs, or is this purely a case of "no fun allowed"?

 

Also the other helmets on voidrig look kinda silly, as they spin during storm shroud, maybe make them not spin?

Edited by Bathynomus
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Sorry for the delay; A couple days back, I've finally finished updating the thread I started for both Necramechs.

 

 

Both Necramechs have their own unique passive (Far better than what I first listed above this post), Ability Augments for their first abilities, and nearly everything they can do, synergizes with their other abilities and offer benefits to non-Necramech allies. For this thread, I will list everything for the Voidrig (I'll list Bonewidow's things on her own feedback thread!).

 

Original posts' updated text:

Voidrig:

  • Passive:  (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
     
Spoiler

 

Backup Power: By holding the gear wheel toggle (Because Mechs don't use a gear wheel), pull up a small interface above the Engine gauge. Select one or more options to divert your engine reserves into, to increase: Ability Strength, Duration, Range, or Efficiency.
 

Do you want to boost your firepower (Strength), the kick of your abilities (Range), Efficiency (Merging Engine power with energy to reduce energy cost), or how long they last (Fusing Engine power into your next cast so that it lasts longer)?

 

In more detail:

  • (First off, this will work much better if a percentage number can be added onto the Engine guage, given the details)
     
  • When you select one of these options, your Engine power will gradually drain at a rate of 2% per second. It will continue to gather engine power until you hold the gear toggle again to keep the charge or vent it out through your Archgun (Adding to what it can do briefly, noted below).
     
    • While allocating power, you cannot boost (Slide) continuously, hover, or run until you hold the gear toggle to hold the charge.
      • If the Engine power drains due to this allocation, the charge will automatically be held until your next cast. The Engine will need 10-15 seconds to start recovering (At which time you can use it normally), but your charge will be kept.

        (If you're already holding a stored charge, you will need to either cast an ability with it, or vent it into your Archgun before beginning a new Engine allocation)
         

For venting the charge

  • If your vent your charge via Archgun (Tap the gear toggle to make your Archgun glow from the inside out), and it's based on Ability Strength, damage will be increased for that full magazine (Until that number of bullets empties).
     
    • Perhaps a visual guage in your Mech's energy color can appear above the Archgun's listed ammo amount. This guage can look like a bullet chain perhaps (Maybe depending on the Archgun you use), and as it runs out of charged ammunition that decreases, and fades when it's used up.
       
  • Charges of ability efficiency or range will increase the speed of the bullets or other type of fire, letting it go out further and faster (This empties it faster).
     
  • A charge of ability duration increases the duration of all status procs caused by the Archgun's magazine.
     

For using the charge
 

If you select multiple options, a varying amount of Engine power will be put into each respective aspect of your ability. This first bit is based on the first three abilities, as Guard Mode is a channeled ability (Noted below).

  • The conversion rate for Engine power to Ability (Aspect here) is: 2% engine power equals +1% ability aspect increase. One reason for that is Ability Strength.

    Considering that these numbers will add on top of your mods, it may not be needed to have more than 80% ability strength for the Arquebex (To be fair, that thing is strong on it's own!).
     
  • But, it's also a decent increase when you get in the thick of it and plan your combat strategy. Up to 50% of an ability aspect increase may eliminate the need for a mod in your build, allowing you to slot in a utility of some kind, or still stack the mod effects with it!
     
  • I also gave Necramech Thrusters some thought (Since that can double your total engine capacity) last night. There were two possibilities I thought of originally, however they both could lead to people feeling like they have to have the mod in order to make use of the passive. As a result, I don't thnk they're balanced for this.

    (I do have a good, sensible reason for the official application of the mod with this though)
     
    • Original possibilities (For those who're curious; Neither of these are what I'd choose)
       
    1. With a max rank Necramech Thrusters, that could've increased the Engine's power limit in some way. Either stopping at 50% allocation & hold one collective charge, to let you use the Engine normally without a cooldown...
       
    2. Or it might've increased the conversion limit so that it's 1% allocation for 1% increase, being completely linear. This could lead to a +100% ability aspect increase on top of your mods.

      (Arquebex becomes an even greater tactical nuke launcher, which it doesn't need; It's very good as is, considering how the passive would already work with Guard Mode below).
       
  • Official Application with Necramech Thrusters

    Considering how the two above things might feel mandatory (Possibly feeling like costing a mod slot), I think it would make more sense to have no functional interaction between the passive and Necramech Thrusters. If a max rank Thrusters is slotted in, the conversion rate stays the same. One way of looking at that though, is if the guage's percentage number is listed as 200% Engine Power on the HUD, the conversion rate can be thought of as 4% engine power per 1% ability aspect increase. Visually speaking, if you're adding bigger thrusters on the Necramech itself, that might need a larger amount of oomph from the engine to make use of it!

    So effectively speaking, the mod doesn't need to interact with this passive, so players don't feel an urgency to increase the capacity.

 

Taking all this in, when you cast Necraweb, Storm Shroud, or Gravemines, you may need to think of what aspect of them you want to increase on the fly.

It's a simple ability passive concept I think! And it fits right in with the Old War style of the Necramechs (I believe Father would agree with me).

 

Now if you cast Guard Mode, you can actually divert power to it as you activate the 4th ability!

 

How it works is:
 

  • Select your ability aspect(s), then once the allocation begins activate Guard Mode. When the Engine drains during the ability, each buff will last at the fullest effect they can be until Guard Mode deactivates.
     
  • As more Engine power is pumped into it, the effect will increase over time!
     
    • Ability Strength will gradually increase the damage of each shot fired.
       
    • Ability Range increases how far the shots will go, and (Optional for DE) may increase the blast radius of every shot by the appropriate percentage.
       
    • Ability Efficiency (Unlike with a normal Archgun) focuses on the energy cost to activate, and subsequent drain over time.
       
    • Ability Duration focuses more on the energy drain than Efficiency (Since it doesn't help ability cast-cost as well, small balance there!), but it might still work with a mix of Efficiency as well.
       
  • Alternative to this method of using Guard Mode, you can simply hold a previous charge and put it all into Guard Mode at once while your engine recovers from something else.

 

Finally, here are some important reasons why I thought of this:

 

  1. When the Mech first came out, TONS of mentions regarding how stamina came back, why that was and that it shouldn't be there were on the relevant forum threads (Not meaning to say that they were all complaints or that everyone on those threads disliked it). To be fair, I could see what they meant, as far as that goes.

     
    • As for how I felt about it, since the Mechs are old school compared to Warframes, I think it's more realistic. They aren't necessarily advanced in the same manner.
       
    • So when I thought of this passive, I figured it will be a way to make the "stamina bar" no longer just a stamina thing. Now you can actually / actively strategize with it.

       
      • Plus, for a machine like this, it makes sense for it to have some sort of effort-allocation system. The Mech's HUD style is well suited to include such a thing.
         
  2. I feel that this sort of passive represents how Necramechs are the way they are, personally. Especially with the Voidrig bring the first one introduced, it should be a good standard to think about for future Mech development (Including Bonewidow).
     
  3. The Backup Power passive is like an effort to dig in your heels and pull out all the stops to win, which makes sense when sometimes summoning your Mech itself is your last (Or first) ditch effort against the enemy.
     
  4. This way of looking at the passive (& how to make it work), to me does seem balanced as is, and it really makes the player think about what they want to do.
     
    • Not just with their abilities, but in case they only want to power their equipped Archgun, they have that option too. Putting the choices in the player's hands with this feels like a really fun and engaging way to use the Necramech!
       
    • In addition, fully draining the Engine shouldn't be too risky as long as you have a way to stay alive with Storm Shroud, to look at it another way. You can quickly start allocating power again or just clear the room of enemies, and prepare for your next enemy engagement.
       
  5. Speaking of player choice, as noted in the passive description, you're free to remove a mod from your build since the Engine can more than make up for a given ability aspect (Up to 50% compared to a 30% mod increase)! But that said, you can also keep the mod in, and then stack the Engine's power onto it too.

 

 

  • Necraweb:  (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
     

 

Spoiler

 

New implementation with Necraweb:

When the Necraweb canister explodes on it's own, or gets shot, two kinds of effects happen (That being the mire or fiery conflaguration); Defense or Offense. Both can be in effect at the same time (With their own durations), but that will need two canisters. Standing / moving around in the mire or fire could absorb some of that fluid into the Mech, and you can take that effect with you outside the area-of-effect.

These effects can be increased by ability strength and duration mods (As well as the potential of Voidrig's Backup Power passive!). Defense and Offensive effects each take 5 full seconds of absorption by the Necramech who stands / moves around in it (Including Bonewidow / future Mechs), and they begin absorbing it the moment they step in the fluids!
 

  • The Defense and Offense aspects listed below will show the minimal effects (1 second of absorption), followed by the full effects (At least 5 seconds) separately. At full absorption, the effect will last until sometime after you set foot outside of the area-of-effect or awhile after the area disappears.
     
    • However strong of an effect you build up will not go down though, so no need to worry about a diminishing return situation!
       
  • Warframes, Companions & Operators still recieve some benefits from this ability as well (From the original posts' iteration)!

    The explanation is a bit more streamlined now below. However, they don't need to wait in the fluids to recieve their own full effects (Not really anywhere on their bodies they can absorb it into, and they're not as tall). Therefore, only the max effects will be listed for them.
     
    • These effects all stack on top of any relevant mods, etc. they have!

 

(Defense-oriented)

For Necramechs

  • Graviton fluids recover your Mech's HP over time at a rate of 1% of max HP / second for 3-5 seconds (1 second of absorption).
     
    • At full Absorption (5 seconds), the recovery rate goes up to 3% of Max HP / second for 12-15 seconds.
       

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

  • Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through a mire of Graviton fluids become coated in them.
     
    • This increases jump & bullet jump speed or height by up to 50% (Up to DE), and they fall slower by the same percentage.
       
    • Ally Companions receive the same level of an increase in those areas by running through them, to keep things consistent. Since Sentinels always fly next to your Warframe, they aren't affected by the Graviton fluids.
       
  • Ally Operators (In void mode or not) who jog / run or slide through the mire have their lower body covered in it, increasing their jogging / running speed by up to 50% (Also up to DE, it could be the same as Frames & companions for consistency's sake though).

 

  • While not in void mode, perhaps that bug of Operator Moon jumps can be memorialized by letting the Operator jump higher and fall slower by the same percentage as Warframes! Movement speed could be based off of the momentum they have when they jump during this.
     
    • While in Void mode, the total distance of their Void Dash could be extended by 50% (Up to DE) as well, or whichever percentage is determined proper for the other Operator Movement increases.


(Offense-oriented)

For Necramechs

  • The Fiery conflaguration fluids flow through the Necramech, and into their weapons. Based on the weapon category (Archgun or melee), rate of fire or attack speed is increased by 10% for 3-5 seconds (At 1 second of absorption).
     
    • At full absorption (5 seconds), rate of fire or attack speed increases by 50% for 12-15 seconds, effectively adding another +10% per second of absorption (Keeping things consistent!)
       
      • (Perhaps except for the Arquebex, I'll definetely let DE decide if it should affect that).
         

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

  • Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through the fiery conflaguration have their weapons coated in them (Similar to the Graviton Fluids).

    To keep things balanced, their weapons (Other than Archguns / Archmelee) will receive a 30% increase to their melee attack speed and projectile weapons' rate of fire. This is still a decent effect that adds on top of their mods (Part of why they receive a slightly lesser increase)!
     
    • Archguns / Archmelee will receive the same 50% effect as Necramechs however, to keep the Arch-weapons in line with the Mechs' usage of them.
       
    • Ally companions running through them receive the same 30% attack speed buff that Warframe melee does. Sentinels will receive the same buff amount to their presently equipped weapon at the same time the Warframe does, to make that easier to manage.
       
  • Ally Operators who jog / run or slide through the fiery conflaguration get their hand / amp coated in it. This increases Void Blast total damage by up to 50% (Up to DE), and Void Beam's damage / rate of fire by the same percentage (Whichever is relevant, if not both). Amps receive a 30% or 50% increase to damage / rate of fire (Also up to DE).
     
    • While in void mode, certain effects of Void Dash may be affected (We'll need player input from various focus schools for this, I'm still working on getting more focus for everything) as well. This part's a W.I.P.!

 

Considering how strong the Sentient forces can be in Operation Orphix Venom (& thanks to the help from @Hawkeye2404 :) ), Father or Loid could offer an ability augment mod for Necraweb as well!

 

(Name is not set in stone though)

New Necraweb Augment:     Father's recipe

Polarity:     Zenurik     (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain:     Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).
 

  • In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds some more effects for Necramechs and non-Necramech allies, listed below.

    The effects will be the same regardless of the type of fluid from the Necraweb canister, so you don't need to worry about shooting it or not.
     
  • Ability Strength and Duration can increase the mod's effects, as well as Voidrig's Backup Power passive.
     
    • The following effects are provided simultaneously as the base functionality, and last for a period of time based on the augment's rank (If not the fluid's duration, either / or). The power of effect offered is also based on this.
       
      • Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, & lasts for 3-5 seconds. Rank 5 provides 50% of the effect, and lasts for 12-15 seconds (These numbers aren't set in stone).
         

For Necramechs

  • Standing / moving in the fluids now also adds +10% Armor to your Mech for every second of fluid absorption, up to +50%!
     
    • Mech weapons aren't affected by this (Unless DE wants to add in a Weapon buff from this mod; I'd be all for it).
       
      • The reason for the Armor boost is to help with Necramech survivability against higher levels of enemies. Pertaining to Armor, right now there aren't many Necramech mods, so Necramech Steel Fiber is the best we have aside from that.
         

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

 

  • All ally Warframes and Companions (Including Sentinels) receive a +50% increase to their total Armor or Damage Reduction, whichever provides more protection from enemy damage (Going to need help from Players & DE Staff on determining which one, since both would be a bit much).
     
    • This stacks on top of any relevant mods each recipient has at the time, and takes full effect (Based on the Augment's rank?) once they travel through the fluids.
       
    • Operators not in Void Mode recieve the same effect / percentage as Warframes & their companions, etc., and for the same duration!
       
      • Operators in Void Mode (While in Void Mode) can use it for an increased amount of time (Same percentage increase as above), however Void Dashing will take the same amount of energy.


The augment could be offered either from Father or from Loid for 20,000 standing (Only at Max syndicate rank Entrati / Necraloid), similar to the other mods they have!

 

 

  • Storm Shroud is perfect as is! I couldn't think of anything to add in and of itself for this ability.
     
    • Edit (12-21-2020): I rephrased what I mentioned about a possible bug right below this!
       
      • Other than that, it might be relevant to note Storm Shroud's invulnerability period may / may not be affected by the Voidrig passive's ability duration charge (Up to DE).

        That said, ability range charges have no relevancy with Storm Shroud, as far as that goes.
         
    • There is still a possible bug where if you exit the Necramech, Storm Shroud may turn itself off. If it does, you'll have to reactivate it normally (Which naturally costs some energy).
       
      • One compensation would be to make your next Storm Shroud cast not cost energy, but another method would be to let it stay on no matter what, until the Voidrig is defeated or Storm Shroud is turned off manually.
         
      • (As far as I know this is still a bug, as of Deimos Arcana)

 

  • Gravemines:  (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
Spoiler

 

New implementation with Gravemines:

How the base ability launches is unchanged, however it can now synergize with the fluids from Necraweb canisters (Since the gravemines come from inside the Voidrig).

  • Based on the fluids absorbed, two buffs can be given to the Gravemines and with two canisters both can be used at once. I'll list the numbers the same way as earlier. Exact numbers may need some tweaking!
     
    • Graviton Fluids can increase the range of the Gravemines (Before they land on the ground) by +5% range for 1 second of absorption; If you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full cast of Gravemines will be affected :)
       
      • At full absorption (5 seconds), the Gravemines' range increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Using the fluids' duration). That might be long enough for 3 full casts!
         
      • This keeps in line with the Defensive theme by covering a larger area, by (Hopefully) keeping enemies farther away from you!
         
    • Fiery Conflaguration fluids can increase the total damage of each Gravemine (Before or After Ability strength is applied, up to DE), by +5% damage for 1 second of absorption. Just like above, if you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full use of the mines will be affected.
       
      • At full absorption (5 seconds), the gravemines' damage increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Also based on the fluids' duration!). This could be a pretty good way to hammer your enemies, depending on the situation!
         
      • This keeps in line with the Offensive theme by dealing more damage to the enemies near them.
         

(Optional implementation for DE, if you want to include this or not)

  • Considering how the Gravemines are named "mines", what if they simply explode either on-contact with an enemy, or when on the ground once an enemy is within 1-2 meters from a mine? If no enemies get close enough for too long (8 seconds maybe?), they all go off.
     
    • If the mines are placed in Graviton fluids, perhaps they can float a tiny bit off the ground to hit enemies in the air (If the ground explosion isn't big enough to reach them).
       
    • If the mines are placed in the fiery conflaguration, perhaps when they explode it could dish out Heat damage based on how long they sat in the fluids.

 

 

  • Guard Mode is very well done, I see no need or reason to change it whatsoever. The level of firepower is balanced by the activation cost & gradual drain, and the fact that you're rooted in place (Plus the animations aren't too fast nor slow!).
     
    • Edit (12-21-2020): With the Necraweb's updated implementation above, any fiery conflaguration fluids absorbed by you or an ally Voidrig will not affect the Arquebex.
       
      • Perhaps if it receives a bit of a nerf in the distant future, this restriction can be lifted to compensate for said nerf.
         
      • As things currently stand, using the Voidrig's Backup Power passive with the Guard Mode ability will be good against the enemy, tailored to how the player sees fit.

 

Some of the feedback I've mentioned is still the same as before (More organized now!), part of that is because I feel that way about a particular aspect of an ability of the Mech. But largely, the changes I have listed here can be monumental for improving the Voidrig (Especially the ability to heal your sqauds' Necramechs using Necraweb). I hope you don't mind seeing similar feedback like this, but there's certainly good intentions behind it. I would really love to see the Voidrig and Bonewidow Mechs be updated in a manner like this (Of course considering everyone's feedback as well).

 

The Backup Power passive I've come up with is the least I can ask for the Voidrig. That will allow everyone's Voidrig to adapt to the situation at hand using it's own Engine power (Not my only reason for it though), so it won't only be using that guage for mobility purposes. Let me know if there's anything that might be of use!

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