Heart of Deimos: Necramech Feedback Megathread

[MomoButt]

Continuing further in bad nekramech mechanics

Their shield's reflect range is not 25M, it's worse, hell it's worse than 55M I can't tell what the range is because it's completely random, I can stand next to them and shoot without taking my own damage and the other time I shoot them from 60M away with a tombfinger and die instantly

Figured out that luring them away from their limbs is the best way to actually reach their back

Instakills being part of the shield is no longer certain as randomly my titania just kinda keeled over and died when litteraly nothing hit me, what was it did the mech fart in my general direction and spread my atoms apart doing so?

The ONLY certain times they can be damaged is when recovering from a dash, jump or when running to get their arms, that's the ONLY time they can't shroud

So far have been unable to do the third consecutive vault as the first 2 drain my revives by random instant death, not to mention they hate pets specifically so sacrifice or vasca don't work well

[THeMooN85]

Here's the feedback, listen to this!

[Grayfox1990]

I am still sceptic about this... We have OP ninja's, OP tenno's why do we need mechs? Anyway whats done is done. Can't turn back now

However, and I do hope that DE READS THIS... What would be cool is if we could do some customization of Mechs. Fashions and stuff. New armorsets, new skins... Make a new mechwarrior game out of this...

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

I think that this thing has no mods, but it has a scaling depending on the lvl of enemies, like a roaming mech in OW. But in the quest, the enemies were level 17. However, take a look at the drawing of the flamethrower. There are really good characteristics. 90 fire damage, 12 rate of fire, 40% status and 20% crit at x2.3 crit multiplier. It's not bad.

I can't say anything about abilities, because we really didn't see their characteristics.

On the other hand, I think people start having strange feelings when they leave their OP warframe with OP weapons and are given something that requires control and resource management. I think it's bad when people are used to when enemies die if you look in their direction. I think that the first experience is spoiled by the power of the warframe, and not by bad mech mechanics.

Remember they did say that the some necramechs would be able to use our archguns... we can get an idea for their 'damage' output based on how our archwing guns work now (unless they do a railjack and make the damage numbers completely different). 

The likelihood is that the standard necramech weapons are going to be no better than us using a warframe with an archgun.

[selig_fay]

11 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Remember they did say that the some necramechs would be able to use our archguns... we can get an idea for their 'damage' output based on how our archwing guns work now (unless they do a railjack and make the damage numbers completely different). 

The likelihood is that the standard necramech weapons are going to be no better than us using a warframe with an archgun.

I think at least Grettler and Imperator are good. Of course, these are not melee, but compared to normal weapons, they are good.

Moreover, I advocate that Titania received an augment in order to use them without an additional damage bonus. I think that says enough about how useful I find them.

[LSG501]

33 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I think at least Grettler and Imperator are good. Of course, these are not melee, but compared to normal weapons, they are good.

Moreover, I advocate that Titania received an augment in order to use them without an additional damage bonus. I think that says enough about how useful I find them.

It's not about if archguns are useful, it's more about there essentially being no need for necramechs if they're going to do no more damage than we could with our warframes.

Personally I quite like larkspur when using a warframe (not so much in archwing) but I wouldn't necessarily say it's much stronger than other weapons of similar design if I was to take off my riven.

[selig_fay]

10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I quite like larkspur when using a warframe (not so much in archwing) but I wouldn't necessarily say it's much stronger than other weapons of similar design if I was to take off my riven.

The lackspur is not really strong. My favorite so far is grettler. Maybe kuva (I don't remember the name of this gun), but for now grettler and imperator. Someone loves a shotgun (I don't remember the name either), because there is a lot of crit. But I want to try a new flamethrower. He looks strong.

[Kefirno]

Alright, did my first 3 IsoVaults run. Oh god, this was a nightmare. Poorly telegraphed invulnerability phase that instakills you if you shoot the mech at the wrong time without shields up, room-wide 99.999% slow ON EVERY SINGLE ANIMATION (including knockdown recovery and shooting) without any indication of affected area, annoying hyperbugged nullifier aura and of course Eidolon-style sponge to remind you how bad weapons balance is in this game.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

On 2020-08-25 at 10:23 PM, (PS4)The_Descolada said:

Could we get a toggle for the jump hover? On PS4 controller holding down X makes it practically impossible to hover and aim at the same time, completely defeating the purpose of the function.

Hi I'm a Xbox player and I couldn't agree more, a toggle for us analog stick users would be greatly appreciated. Also if there could be a pop-up for the abilities like our warframes when we hold the shoulder button, cause only cycling is ruff. And a bit more contrast or indication of which ability is lit up, because I think it's a little hard to tell what I have active. Other than that I'm good fur now, I think the Mechs are cool and plz don't change the ui to much I like how mech'y it feel's.   good job 👍

[Cpl_Facehugger]

10 hours ago, selig_fay said:

I think this is why we got molt and decoy. Try them. It's really very easy when it's not targeting you. 

I mean, that's great for Loki and Saryn, but what about everyone else? I guess we could helminth those abilities onto other frames now, but nobody actually has a helminth segment yet and it's a pretty big ask on some frames to sacrifice part of their kit for something that is garbage 99% of the time like decoy is.

Spectres are super useful for the fight too, but it's still kind of frustrating as a solo player to have to rely on an AI teammate because the mech turns on a dime and pops invincibility every five seconds.

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

I mean, that's great for Loki and Saryn, but what about everyone else? I guess we could helminth those abilities onto other frames now, but nobody actually has a helminth segment yet and it's a pretty big ask on some frames to sacrifice part of their kit for something that is garbage 99% of the time like decoy is.

Spectres are super useful for the fight too, but it's still kind of frustrating as a solo player to have to rely on an AI teammate because the mech turns on a dime and pops invincibility every five seconds.

If you have 1 Lith capture, then you just might die and it will come to help you. Companions for solo games - this would be great (like on the index for example). But I don't think you need a nerf of enemies where co-op is important, because what's the point of a tank that generates aggression if you can kill all in solo?

[0Howl0]

The Necramech fight in the Isolation Vaults feels very unfair towards Solo players, not only is it quite annoying to target the weakpoints as they always face you, they also seem ridiculously resistant to damage.

[DariusMcSwag]

Here is my feedback from what I have experienced so far. I will try to keep it short and sweet.

 - Sound Design, Animations, the FEEL of the mech is outstanding.

 - Melee is absolutely horrible. Charge feels like the only melee option, which isnt bad its just not as fun. Look into melee stomp from the Manits in Halo for inspiration.

 - Powers feel essentially useless. What does the first one even do? The bombs do no damage and I feel that the powers are almost unnecessary.

 - Acquisition is going to be a pain

 

However this is my only piece of feedback that should be taken into account:

IF WE CAN’T USE THE MECH OUTSIDE OF DEIMOS THEN IT IS USELESS

[Papa.Pov]

Fighting the mechs in Isolation Vaults as a solo player is complete and utter garbage. I'm sorry, but to damage the mech I have to either shoot the arms or pray I hit the microscopic head hitbox. I can't hit the back weakpoint because apparently, even though warframes fly through the air at mach 6, necramechs turn faster.

So I end up shooting them in the arms to damage them, which A: is a very, very limited amount of damage, and B: literally reduces the mech's combat AI to spamming either the grenade cluster or the shield ability.

I mean, 10 outta 10 for that design choice, DE, very fun to have an enemy that just completely breaks the combat flow.

[Eklipse2k2]

I have to agree, fighting the mechs alone is a chore. It shouldn't be hard for us to hit the back weak point, however if you're fighting these alone, they will always look at you. It makes the whole situation unbearably tedious. The way I figure they could design these fights is to have a way to distract the mechs attention, either by focusing on an enemy or by giving us the ability to pick up their arms and throw them so they'll chase them down, opening up their back weak point for us to exploit.

[vaarnaaarne]

The necramechs damage reflect is also way too much for players. %-based damage reflect doesn't work on players in Warframe, due to how gigantic the disparity between our damage output and health is. A flat reflect would be more sensible, if a reflect has to be there at all.

Also those hitboxes be tiny.

11 minutes ago, Eklipse2k2 said:

I have to agree, fighting the mechs alone is a chore. It shouldn't be hard for us to hit the back weak point, however if you're fighting these alone, they will always look at you. It makes the whole situation unbearably tedious. The way I figure they could design these fights is to have a way to distract the mechs attention, either by focusing on an enemy or by giving us the ability to pick up their arms and throw them so they'll chase them down, opening up their back weak point for us to exploit.

IMO throwing their arm directly at them to damage and stun them for a while would be much cooler.

[ixidron92]

The good

• The art and flavor are amazing
• The sounds are perfect
• It feels awesome to pilot one. It makes you feel like an unstoppable juggernaut 

The bad

• No loot/enemy radar. No vacuum.
• Ammo regeneration is bad. Archguns aren't the best weapons. Even my perfectly modded ones with rivens struggle against high level infested and specially against the new armored ones, but that's an archgun problem, tbh, not a necramech one.
• Melee is terrible. 
• While it makes you feel like an unstoppable juggernaut, the reality is that you're incredibly frail even with mods and you're a big, fat target that can't dodge.
• Abilities are lackluster when it comes to well, pretty much everything. 
• Cannot heal and cannot be healed. Only the regeneration aura seems to work.
• Overall is worse than a warframe wielding a normal weapon when it comes to every single aspect you could take into account. So, it seems pointless. Don't get me wrong, it is cool as heck and I want to use it every single time just because of that, but it's woefully inefficient. 
• Terrain traverse is terrible, as it can't jump very high and the thrusts just hover.

Ability breakdown

Necraweb

• It blocks Larkspur fire selection.
• It doesn't make any sense for the ability to work the way it work. Make it shoot the canister as you press the button.
• Needs a massive buff to every single stat. Specially projectile traveling speed and area of effect.

Storm Shroud

• This is the only exception. It seems fine as it is. 

Gravemines

• Needs to fire in the direction of your crosshair.
• Needs more damage.

Guard mode

• It feels awesome to use, but overall, I don't feel it's worth using due to terrain and inability to move.
• Would work better as a toggle ability with a set energy cost to turn on rather than a constant drain.

The improvable

• Give it another weapon slot an allow it to equip archmelees as well, allowing it to have 1 archmelee and 1 archgun, 2 archmelees, or 2 archguns. 
• Allow it to function when you're not piloting it. You have the AI set for NPC necramech, plus it's supposed to be an independent sentrybot.
• Allow pets and sentinels to follow the necramech while you're piloting it.
• Allow warframe abilities to affect the necramech (buffs, heals, etc.)
• More customization. Warframe pieces, Syandanas, emblems, Efemeras, sigils, etc.
• Archgun needs "Copy Necramech color"
• Why in the GOD EMPEROR's name doesn't it fall from the sky drop-pod style?!!! That sounds like HERESY to me. Instead, it simply appears out of thin air. Booooo! Lame! The worst part is: It has the animation! It's the melee while hovering slam.

[Vitoga]

I'm personally really disappointed that we don't get to customize our necramech at all. Looking at the promotional art they clearly show different designs and then we get to pilot the 'snake' one which has a unique torso piece.

Feels bad man.

[Aldain]

Not sure if this is a good place to post critiques on the enemy varient, but...

The enemy versions need some sort of internal cooldown when using the abilities, they shouldn't be able to throw 50+ mines and turn the shield on seconds after it goes off, it spams those abilities more than a player ever could and that is an issue in my eyes.

Otherwise I like how the sample one controls for the most part, the dash seemed finicky, I couldn't get it going except on super flat land for more than a second for some reason and it could benefit from a "slide" for evasion purposes, like a quick boost in a direction with a small cooldown or something. 

 

[vaarnaaarne]

Honestly, the enemy version shouldn't have the shield at all. Enemies having damage reflect abilities that deal % damage are contradictory to the core gameplay of Warframe, and mechanically are ludicrous punishment on players.

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

I have some feedback, in the form of a question - the Damaged Necramech parts (PS4)

I see the chance of getting a part is 30%, but I've only ever gotten from ally necramechs breaking, which makes me wonder if something isn't quite right. Having seen that ally mechs no longer drop them, I thought it was worth mentioning 

But my main design question - why are the parts skewed: 38.72/38.72/11.28%/11.28%? It's hard enough to get any part, but I've gotten engines and weapon pod once, and the casing about 6-7 times, still missing the regular pod.

It's just one of those situations where I feel it's unnecessary to make certain parts even more frustrating to get.

And it seems odd to have the ressource booster work on the parts, as that meant I got 12 extra casings, which I can't trade to a friend - and credits isn't really why I'm doing it.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but this is just a drop table I've keep at 25/25/25/25, or at least make the parts more likely to drop (I even did all three vaults in a single cycle, and I got not a single part from that, which made me not motivated to do it again)

I've 2/3 parts for the weapon, so it just seems a bit anti-climatic to end up finishing the necramech weapon before the mech itself. I hope it makes sense to some degree.

[Cirinwe]

Love the visual and sound designs of the mech, and presumably there'll be a wider array of weaponry and customisation in the future. The third ability (mines) feels like it could be better (less random in its deployment), but it still does what it's supposed to so not too much of an issue. 

From what I can see, getting your very own mech will be a tedious and difficult process (especially for a solo player), so will likely just have to make do with using broken mechs I find lying around.

[Eklipse2k2]

So other than my earlier post about combating them, I do like the look, sound and feel of the mechs so far. I can't give full detail yet because I haven't been able to build one, but I think I can give some insite one what should be expected of them.

In my view, I feel they should fill a role of heavy support that a warframe can't fill without having to be kitted out to the extreme. An example would be having a Mag for utility, but when heavy units come to play you can drop in a mech and be able to handle those enemies more effectively. Also I really hope they're not restricted to open worlds, they seem small enough to used in normal maps.

It would be nice for them to be able to shrug off any small arms fire to their front while still receiving any damage to their rear. This means that pilots need to be aware of their surroundings in order to keep fighting while still giving the feel of an ultimate death machine mechs should be. Special heavy units like bombards, bursas, etc. would be the only enemies that could deal any damage to the front of the mech reliably, plus arch-guns should be able to deal damage to the front of enemy necramechs for our sakes.

As far as mission objectives, having a mech wouldn't mean you can drop one during a rescue and expect everything to go smoothly. It shouldn't replace a warframe, only support your squad mates when things are getting hairy. So that would mean a mech wouldn't be able to capture a tower in interception, hack a console in spy, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that necramechs should be heavy units we can pilot in lieu of our warframes, exchanging mobility and utility for heavy firepower and durability. My hope is that this will be something that would be expanded on and won't be left in the dust after some time.

[devildevil21]

Necramechs need to be able to interact with warframe and operator buffs. Their energy regen is non-existant, they eat too much energy for what little energy pool they have (press 4 to use your ult, you drop down to 0 energy in less than 7 seconds....)

They need a faster stamina regen.

And the worst offender of them all, necramechs need a faster reload speed. The "dead ones" you can possess have a nice reload speed. The one you own has the SLOWEST reload speed of all. I'm not talking about the reload delay, I'm talking about the actual reload. Our owned necramechs reload at a speed of... I'd dare say 3 bullets per second. Considering we have 300 bullets we're looking at waiting for a total of 100 seconds (1 minute and 40 seconds!) of waiting time to reload our entire weapon.

 

So we got a slow, vulnerable, with low energy, no way to interact with warframe or operator buffs, no loot vaccum, no access to pet's radar, really slow reload necramech who I am honestly just using for the novelty of it, but I'm not seeing myself using it in the future if it stays THIS weak.

Oh, and a final note I forgot to mention: necramechs need more capacity. They got so many mod slots and barely any capacity to even fill them all out, that's just ridiculous!

 

Edit: And please, for everything sacred, allow us to obtain necramech mods from the bounties or someplace else other than enemy necramechs! I've killed 130 necramechs in total to build my own and I only own 5 unique necramech mods (in total 7, but a few are repeated like vitality and steel fiber)

[TPtv]

Like zaw and kitgun, please allow me to purchase finished Necramech products in platinum.
Give a chance to players who hate fishing, mining, and hunting animals and want only action games.