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Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread


SilverBones

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5 hours ago, -Loko- said:

But what assumptions? I just don't understand how subsuming a non-prime warframe (of which you have only one copy and don't want to farm more), no matter if it has umbral forma or not, doesn't take away the ability to play that warframe before it gets primed.

Dude, I made a whole thread about it, before the system launched, showed the math and the problems and the reasons why it needed to happen, it's still here, you can search it, I'm not redoing the whole thing here for you.  The assumption you're making is what makes sense and why and that I didn't think it through very well.  I did.  Before the system launched, and still nothing happened.

It's about what happens to player investment, particularly newer players and how they are penalized for investing in a frame that doesn't have a prime just because it's their favorite.  When explained in detail nobody had an issue with it.  You are welcome to go research it for yourself.

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As I've seen others mention, I do agree the the amount of Bile resources that are required seems a bit too much.  I think the other resource types are fine, but Bile I feel should be toned down some. 

As a side note (and minor gripe), I was hoping to finally see something a little more happen with the cysts/Helminth virus since it was mentioned a good while back that there was more planned for it than it just being used to make Helminth Chargers.  The Chargers don't even get a unique interaction with Helminth and instead are just treated like normal Kubrows.  Nothing is mentioned regarding the original interaction between Helminth and Nidus either.  I've no doubt that whatever the original vision for the cyst/virus was is not going happen now, but there's a small bit of hope that it might be adapted to the current system eventually, even if only to not have another system that feels like it's been forgotten about and left collecting dust.   On the subject of cysts, a cosmetic toggle option and ability to change its color would still be nice.

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Here's a genuine question: Why the time gates? Do you really want me to not play the game? Because all time gates help me do is forget to log in. I get you want to entice people by holding these shiny trinkets in front of them but time gates just fuel the overall burnout. I remember a time where you played this game at your own pace and back then I couldn't put the controller down.

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11 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Give us the ability to correct the creature in how it addresses us.  I find it insulting to be called a demon.  The context of the conversation is evil.  I'm not going to play a game that I often play with my kids where being an evil creature is cool.  I know there is reference by other NPC, but never by one we take care of and interact with and have the ability to correct.  We need to be able to have the option to correct this creature and change dialog on how it addresses you.

It's enough for me to leave the game.  

 

 

What Helminth calls you is based on lore. It calls the Tenno (operator) a demon (or as in the past "those devils") and it calls the Warframe master. This is because Warframes are infested and are treated by some infested as their own. This happens with Lephantis when he says "(Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh.)" or "(We embrace you. Why do you defile us?)". 

So just understand the lore and don't be a child or leave if you are so fragile. Btw it's not calling you personally a demon, it just hates your Operator and loves your Warframes. Warframe is a role-playing game.  

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11 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Give us the ability to correct the creature in how it addresses us.  I find it insulting to be called a demon.  The context of the conversation is evil.  I'm not going to play a game that I often play with my kids where being an evil creature is cool.  I know there is reference by other NPC, but never by one we take care of and interact with and have the ability to correct.  We need to be able to have the option to correct this creature and change dialog on how it addresses you.

It's enough for me to leave the game.  

 

 

This is probably the most ridiculous piece of feedback I have ever seen on these forums.

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Can Ivara's Quiver replace the Noise Arrow with Dashwire? Dashwire was kinda my reason for subsuming Ivara as it's one of the few abilities that can really change a map physically. It'd also mean the augment could benefit from both abilities.

P.S. If it's not too much to ask, can retired abilities be given as Helminth abilities? Things like Vauban's Bounce or Excalibur's Super Jump. Not asking for any powerful abilities like World on Fire or that kind of thing unless approved of by DE.

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Hello,

First I want to say I am loving the Heart of Deimos. Great job on this one DE. 

I'm now a few frames into the Helminth system and noticed that my third subsumed frame (Equinox) did not get a flower! A minor thing, but seems sad for one of my frames to not get a memorial for their sacrifice. 

With regards to resource costs, things seem pretty good overall. The only resources that seem to have costs far too high are the Railjack resources. Hopefully these costs will come down in a Hotfix. 20,000 titanium (if I remember correctly) is pretty intense..

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  • RJ res should be x10 less.  Current sacrifice is almost my entire supply of stuff and I've done alot.  For example Trachyons 10-20k???  Yea right im gonna sacrifice that!! Eat crap.
  • Should warn or block when u try to apply second ability (I thought I was gonna have uber cheated Nekro lol)

Otherwise the whole thing was super easy to get into and understand.

When i hit rank 3 w/ Entrati I do NOT remember seeing segment as free rank up reward.  Was just chance I spotted it in Son's offerings.

Octavia BP should be 25k since u also have to buy 25k mandachord.  (would love a refund.... Need a helstrum riven :p

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my only big gripe right now is the Bile economy and costs , given i dont think everyone uses boosters and such and plays through normally

causes a problem for BILE as it needs only rare resources . this economy draws way to much from low drop grindy resources were everything else has 1 - 2 HUGE  resource pools and bile however has (none) and drains large excess amounts for what it does. 

in testing for farming no boosters  for  30 min -1 hour i can yield using nekros or khora  2-3 and on a rare shot 5  solo farming argons

for sludge i could get 73 from circling entire map and checking every spot in a 1hour+ time frame 

for railjac resources r/Warframe - I can't possibly imagine why people are so salty about some of the railjack resources.

lets just say thats a joke 

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4 hours ago, Zahnny said:

Can Ivara's Quiver replace the Noise Arrow with Dashwire? Dashwire was kinda my reason for subsuming Ivara as it's one of the few abilities that can really change a map physically. It'd also mean the augment could benefit from both abilities.

P.S. If it's not too much to ask, can retired abilities be given as Helminth abilities? Things like Vauban's Bounce or Excalibur's Super Jump. Not asking for any powerful abilities like World on Fire or that kind of thing unless approved of by DE.

I second this. I also subsumed Ivara for dashwire alone :(. It would make positioning Mesa ideal on some multilevel maps. 

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Please make all helminth abilities linkable in chat and appear in the UI when hovering over someone's proFile glyph in squad.

pT5WsHq.jpg

Here's why:

Lets say you're recruiting a squad For something.

In this instance we'll say, Steel path endo Farm.

Traditionally this squad would need a nidus in it to group enemies.  With larva being transFerable, we don't need a nidus necessarily, any Frame that builds For range and has larva on it will do, and specifically nekros, who already builds For range and is required For this squad could Fill that role.

By linking in chat we can show the ability just as we can link a Frame, additionally showing in squad can help the team prepare the proper load out, or alert a player they are on the wrong conFig, which certainly happens now that we're using tons More conFigs than ever.

Something like [subsumed lava] For chat
And For subsume abilities, showing them right under the Frame would be best. 

IE:

Nidus [30]
Subsumed: (insert whatever or disable iF none)
Steel Charge
Etc.

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There should be some sort of timer for how long the Helminth can retain the resources you feed it. Due to personal ethical dilemmas I do not want to subsume or infuse my Warframes, but I was still looking to at least rank up the Helminth as a way to get rid of my millions of alloy plate and nano spores.

It could be a month long timer for all I care, just something so that it's not a 100% completely dead system for me.

 

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On 2020-08-25 at 5:41 PM, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I just went to speak to helminth with my Nidus and it automatically popped his cyst. The cyst he's had since I started playing the game. It didn't say "cure cyst" like it normally does, it just said "Helminth". I actually kept it because i liked how it looked and now I can't get it back. So I'm just going to have to get a new Nidus, even though this one has all of my damned umbral forma in it.

Some kind of warning would be nice, this experience has totally ruined my mood and I'm done playing for today.

You put umbral forma on a non prime frame? Yikes 

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2 hours ago, Ozzyman89 said:

You put umbral forma on a non prime frame? Yikes 

So? Nidus prime at the time was over a year off. I guess I shouldn't get the most out of my favorite frame because he hasn't been primed yet. Even if he had, that still doesn't change the issue at hand. Dozens of people I've seen on the forums and reddit have had their cysts removed automatically without warning.

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11 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Dude, I made a whole thread about it, before the system launched, showed the math and the problems and the reasons why it needed to happen, it's still here, you can search it, I'm not redoing the whole thing here for you.  The assumption you're making is what makes sense and why and that I didn't think it through very well.  I did.  Before the system launched, and still nothing happened.

It's about what happens to player investment, particularly newer players and how they are penalized for investing in a frame that doesn't have a prime just because it's their favorite.  When explained in detail nobody had an issue with it.  You are welcome to go research it for yourself.

Now I have an assuption. I'm assuming you think my time is worth so little that I'm going to spend it looking through your posts instead of providing me with a link or tl;dr version.

Everybody gets "penalized", sooner or later, when new things are added to the game. Helminth was not even aimed at "newer players". Everyone was so mad about the MR requirement that it got lowered, and now we have countless posts about the costs being too high.

Even if the dude who's post touched you so badly was indeed trying to be as much **** as possible, he was still right. When you invest in things in Warframe (or any other game for that matter), you should be prepared that this investment may become worthless eventually. It was, is, and always will be like that. Complaining about Helminth, rivens and other meta-related stuff when it gets nerfed or becomes no-longer viable is ridiculous, pure and simple. Especially if it's not the one and only option.

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47 minutes ago, FrostyNovaPrime said:

There should be some sort of timer for how long the Helminth can retain the resources you feed it. Due to personal ethical dilemmas I do not want to subsume or infuse my Warframes, but I was still looking to at least rank up the Helminth as a way to get rid of my millions of alloy plate and nano spores.

It could be a month long timer for all I care, just something so that it's not a 100% completely dead system for me.

This doesn't make any sense. The system serves no purpose if you're not going to subsume or infuse. You effectively just want to throw your resources into a pointless trashcan and set them on fire? 

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I gotta say, I think the nerf to warcry was too much.

It's barely noticeable at all to cast this ability unless you explicitly build for power strength, or use it in conjunction with a wisp buff.  either that or it had a conflict when running arcane strike+berserker where it doesn't stack right.

If you guys end up revisiting this, try to make it so a build with a regular intensify has a noticeable effect.

I'm running a full umbral set and it's just... the armor is the main benefit, the attack speed is a joke which is/should the main reason to use this ability, otherwise defy ends up being a better option in almost all cases.  There should be reasons to want to choose both for different set ups/situations (unlike loki decoy, lol)

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for the love of god do something about the ressources cost. I am MR 23 I have 2159 hours in game.
Why we can't use ALL the ressources we have like you stated ? we can't use most event ressources, we can't use kuva, we can't use endo, fish part ? also why Deimos ressources give up to 60%  like pustulite or ganglion ?
Many cost are #*!%ing high : Bile's ressources cost are just a #*!%ing joke (RARE ressources and you'll smoked we you design this category) 1k fresnels/ 10 somatic fibers / 3k cryotic are you kidding me ?
I'll not pay a #*!%ing cent to buy ressources or boosters because you designed a system to suck money out of players (also bad design, i don't know if Pablo really took part of the project like stated but he should be ashame of your choices)
In another form with easy vocabulary : Revise cost, Revise ressources distribution between categorie AND ADD ALL THE RESSOURCES
also revise the leveling of this abomination, lower the Sentient appetite overall cost and level (should be perfect at rank 5) unlocking it almost at the end don't make sens because we don't know if you'll add more to this system (we'll have more warframe ability, but Helminth ability ?)

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I did have unlock the 3th rank and subsume only excalibur for now, and check all my warframe to see what could be unlock.
My disapointement:
- We can choose where a "new" power go but not choose which one we can unlock from a warframe eaten.
- Not enought possibilites for now to make that system really interesting. I have very few warframes i wish to make a change of powers. And those powers available from both warframe & helminth are not exiting.

- Feeding by Railjack ressources are really too expensive. and some others too ;)

Instead to have this mini fusion system, i will prefer to see something about Rank bonus or passives stats. Editing there will be more worthy to me.

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