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Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread


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I gotta say, I think the nerf to warcry was too much.

It's barely noticeable at all to cast this ability unless you explicitly build for power strength, or use it in conjunction with a wisp buff.  either that or it had a conflict when running arcane strike+berserker where it doesn't stack right.

If you guys end up revisiting this, try to make it so a build with a regular intensify has a noticeable effect.

I'm running a full umbral set and it's just... the armor is the main benefit, the attack speed is a joke which is/should the main reason to use this ability, otherwise defy ends up being a better option in almost all cases.  There should be reasons to want to choose both for different set ups/situations (unlike loki decoy, lol)

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for the love of god do something about the ressources cost. I am MR 23 I have 2159 hours in game.
Why we can't use ALL the ressources we have like you stated ? we can't use most event ressources, we can't use kuva, we can't use endo, fish part ? also why Deimos ressources give up to 60%  like pustulite or ganglion ?
Many cost are #*!%ing high : Bile's ressources cost are just a #*!%ing joke (RARE ressources and you'll smoked we you design this category) 1k fresnels/ 10 somatic fibers / 3k cryotic are you kidding me ?
I'll not pay a #*!%ing cent to buy ressources or boosters because you designed a system to suck money out of players (also bad design, i don't know if Pablo really took part of the project like stated but he should be ashame of your choices)
In another form with easy vocabulary : Revise cost, Revise ressources distribution between categorie AND ADD ALL THE RESSOURCES
also revise the leveling of this abomination, lower the Sentient appetite overall cost and level (should be perfect at rank 5) unlocking it almost at the end don't make sens because we don't know if you'll add more to this system (we'll have more warframe ability, but Helminth ability ?)

Edited by Aisu9
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I did have unlock the 3th rank and subsume only excalibur for now, and check all my warframe to see what could be unlock.
My disapointement:
- We can choose where a "new" power go but not choose which one we can unlock from a warframe eaten.
- Not enought possibilites for now to make that system really interesting. I have very few warframes i wish to make a change of powers. And those powers available from both warframe & helminth are not exiting.

- Feeding by Railjack ressources are really too expensive. and some others too ;)

Instead to have this mini fusion system, i will prefer to see something about Rank bonus or passives stats. Editing there will be more worthy to me.

Edited by (PS4)Lunsei
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Allowing subsuming of ANY power from a warframe would not be a good idea. It would basically cause immense havoc and lead to an extremely narrow meta. While it would be nice to give some frames more tankier abilities (this is where Helminth needs something extra, since Eclipse is in a way unreliable for tanking and Null Star self-sabotages its useful quality), something like Chroma being given access to for example Warding Halo would taking things way too far.

I think that the current limitation is just fine, even if some picks (cough Decoy cough) are simply too suboptimal. It should also help highlight how the problem is not with abilities like Roar and Warcry, but with other abilities being actively discouraged by Warframe's core gameplay. Nerfs to the powers that actually synchronize with Warframe's meta is not going to fix the problem, but rethinking how for example click-to-damage powers work and adjusting accordingly would (a boring but quick example of how this could work would be for click-to-damage powers not dealing damage against non-boss enemies but working as click-to-kill powers).

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il y a 53 minutes, vaarnaaarne a dit :

Allowing subsuming of ANY power from a warframe would not be a good idea. ...

 

I'm not so sure of that.
Of course some powers are needed for others, i know that. So some set will be useless without it.
Fusion's powers nerf them, it's already a restriction good enought.

If that system have been made for veteran, i don't understand what new things it gives. More grinding that for sure.
We have already thousand of thousand of possibilities to set our warframes, it's barely an advantage to use for me.

Edited by (PS4)Lunsei
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Bile and Railjack resources for the Helminth System are absurdly high. These need to be lowered significantly from 5-digit numerical costs to 3-4. 

I find it very doubtful that there are players that play enough Railjack to sustain 5-digit numerical costs and feeding cycles for the Helminth system. These current costs were seemingly established with a lack of insight on playerbase Railjack activity, and the results are haphazard at best.

Please readjust these numbers for Helminth feed.

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So far I've been able to get about 5 abilities so far, but I'm just done for now. Railjack resources cost so much to feed helminth and with Loki requiring bile, the category that has very minimal options and many of them I have to farm for multiple hours to feed him once, I can't take it anymore. All of the other categories I can handle, but whenever something needs bile I just lose all motivation to even try and experiment with said ability. Please at least address this and if you're going to do anything about it as I've seen multiple posts about this but the large majority of this thread is talking about the cyst but this literally is making me lose all motivation to use the system that made me excited to play warframe again.

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Energized Munitions. It's 50 energy for only 5 seconds (base) duration. For that, the efficiency should be 100%. Or, at least, the 75% ammo efficiency should be influenced by Ability Strength. Either way, for 50 energy and such a short duration, we should be able to get 100% efficiency.

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One thing that i would really would like change is that when i put an ability on loadout C of my warframe it should be with load out C so i can move it around, but guess what you can't move it around and put it on A now, it's not actually on loadout but it's actually on the 3rd slot so u will never be able to make the first build to be equipped once you click on a warframe, can you please fix this? i want to move it around just like a normal build

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Can you have a more in depth look at feeding material for helminth some material seem to be pretty out of balance, stuff like Somatic Fiber (10), all the plants (8),  Diluted Thermia (5), polymer bundle (12.5K), can you PLEASE take another look at these? i think these need to change among others ofc, these just were a few examples of unbalanced requirements!

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Now, it's been a long while since I've played Saryn, but I remember spores being able to affect things held by Well of Life. Not sure if this is a bug or an unlisted change to Well of Life when put on other frames through Helminth; I tried it today on Saryn and the targets can't be infected with Saryn's spores. If a target is already affected by spores, then using Well of Life on it will remove the spores.

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11 hours ago, Aisu9 said:

also why Deimos ressources give up to 60%  like pustulite or ganglion ?

Maybe that's because they have their own popups on pickup. If they have popups that means they're very rare. /s.

I just noticed it and it killed me immediately. Cost is cheap - and it looks more cheap when you compare cost with ease of get - and gain is high. And there are railjack resources that have 30% for cost of well equipped railjack.

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Il y a 1 heure, Nakti a dit :

Maybe that's because they have their own popups on pickup. If they have popups that means they're very rare.

the issue is every other rare ressources how show in the popup don't give 60%, only Deimos infested type ressources give 60%

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20 Load Outs was not enough before helminth, it is certainly not enough after.

6 Configs is not enough with the new helminth system.  Lets say I have a frame.  Lets say I have 3 builds I use on that frame before helminth.  Lets say that's 3 configs and 3 load outs.

Now lets say I want multiple subsume abilities on that frame.  Now lets say I don't have a primed variant accessible and these builds cost 2 umbral forma and there is no way to get more umbral forma in the game and we can expect about 3-4 PER YEAR, if we clear every single nightwave, and those 2 are already lost entirely when the primed version comes out, so that means I'm already 4 umbral forma deep on this frame.

Now you want to farm up another version of this frame (because of lack of load outs/configs) AND put two more umbral forma on it?  And 2 more on a second primed version as well when that comes out in another year?

You want me to spend 8 Umbral Forma over the course of 2 years... also lets also consider how expensive it is to trade abilities in the helminth system, even at rank 8+ now with helminth.

This is jacked up.

Some things to consider:

1) umbral forma need a better method of acquistion in game and/or to be refunded if subsumed, or simply have a removal tool that refunds it.   No player should be asked to spend 8 umbral forma on a single frame as shown above.

2) 6 configs is not enough to cover 44 different abilities I might want to slot on a frame.  At least 10 per frame is reasonable, 12 makes more sense by adding 2 rows of configs.  

3) 20 load outs wasn't enough BEFORE helminth, it certainly isn't enough AFTER.  With this new system more like 60-100 is likely the best option given how many options we have now.  The whole point of buying these slots is so that I don't need to go fiddle with stuff every time I load a mission.  LET ME USE THIS FEATURE FOR IT'S INTENDED PURPOSE AT A CAPACITY THAT REFLECTS THE NEEDS OF THE NEW SYSTEM.  At a bare bones minimum it was already criminally negligent that we didn't have at least one load out per warframe BEFORE this system.

PLEASE FIX THIS.  This is broken. 

It's not even possible for me to use the system to potential because of the artificial restrictions you have placed on configs, umbral forma and load outs.

These artificial restrictions you have in place are actively preventing me from spending more plat on slots that I actually NEED to use your system... is that your intention?!?!?!  I hope not.

I actively can't use your system to potential because you have limited my options.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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7th metamorphosis giving 20 more slots is not very useful. I've fed 8 warframes to helminth, put some of them on my frames and then fed him with resources and i have level 8 metamorphosis. Instead replace it with "feeding is 25% more efficient" or something like that, and change level 4 bonus slots from 10 to 12 or 15, i'm pretty sure you won't waste all of them before hitting level 10.

Also, please, make it possible to feed eidolon shards with sentient appetite bonus. People have hundreds or even thousands of them and they are not used anywhere except ranking up the Quills and crafting the Paracesis.

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Some proposals for master's summon:

  • Resurrects death companions (any, including sentinels)
  • Instantly revives those companions bleeding out.
  • Fully heals, restores shields, fills overshields and removes debuffs. Also grants a temporary armor buff.
  • Works on specters, razorflies, Venari, Wukong's twin, your necramech, and any ally npcs like the defense objective when he's a moving npc, syndicate allies, allied lich, mind controlled enemies, hostage, Clem, etc.
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I've not read through this whole thread so I dunno if this was suggested but I wanted to give it a go.

So when you max out Helminth, you're given unlimited Subsume slots. I get the preface behind an unlimited amount -- more Warframes to come. Thing is, it's not *technically* unlimited because we get one Subsume per Warframe.

So, for the botanical enthusiasts, I submit to you to allow us to Subsume multiple copies of Warframes. Reduce the cost of resources on any Warframes after the first copy, so it doesn't feel so drastic. This way we can build our flower garden beyond the limit of the 46 (or however many) Warframes we have as of now. Plus, it'll give us an excuse to craft multiple copies of Warframes like Oberon, whose parts in we find all the time in full.

Just a thought.

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When dragging Configs around on your Warframe to replace their order, it would be appreciated if it also swapped the config that your Helminth abiliity is on with it.

EG: I currently have "Pull" set on 'Config C' only. If I drag 'Config C' over to 'Config A''s position, currently it will change all the mods/arcanes etc, but "Pull" will remain on 'Config C'. It would be better if, when dragging configs around, it also swapped the config positions of helminth abilities you have assigned at the same time.

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19 hours ago, Borg1611 said:

This doesn't make any sense. The system serves no purpose if you're not going to subsume or infuse. You effectively just want to throw your resources into a pointless trashcan and set them on fire? 

Yes. Yes I do. The Devs directly said during Tennocon that it would be a way to have a resource sink. I wanted to use it as said sink.

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So it is underwhelming as expected.

Please return nerfed abilities to their normal values.

Also please make Empower ability scaling strength from mods like normal abilities do.

Also playing with Dispensary i found that it has too low duration even in original state(on Protea with 143% duration), i would give it a permanent duration like Wisp's 1st ability.

Other ability would be also welcome - Shine: Adds +100% range(scales with range mods) for next cast.

Also would be good idea to let us infuse all Helminth abilities in one slot(infusing another Helminth ability would mix them(they all activate at same time on cast) or make a choice wheel). Only Helminth abilities, not Warframe abilities.

P.S. I will not forget about nerfs and will remind people of them from time to time.

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Can we please have an option or something to customize the flowers in the Helminth room? I'm aware of the perminance but I wasn't aware that the flowers color scheme was based on what you had on your frame at the time. I wanted all my flowers to use default Warframe colors, it's resulted in my first 4 flowers being deep purple/black with orokin blue energy. Where as my most recent Garuda subsume is using her color pallete after removing all customization from her.

If there's a way to reset the first 4 flowers so that they use the default color scheme of uncustomized frames I'd much appreciate it.

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