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Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread


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Personally I think time and costs are fine for unlocking an ability on a warframe: resource drain + wait for subsuming to happen.

The problem I percieve is with everything else after that: a structure that disencourages experimentation and works against the system itself.

- High costs carry a very high punishment if the skill doesn't perform as the user would like.

- Limits on the unlocked skill's fixed position and configuration on the warframe carry additional punishment as well.

 

I suggest that things should be streamlined more, and get something similar to what GuildWars did. Unlocked abilities on a warframe should be freely swappable in the orbiter, exactly like GuildWars allowed to do with the characters in an outpost. A character had access to all the unlocked skills it unlocked, but only 8 could be selected before leaving town for a mission and positioned in any skill slot.

While in the arsenal, a warframe should be able to pick one of the subsumed abilities it has unlocked and be able to freely position it in any of its 4 slots while overriding its basic ability. This would encourage unlocking and experimenting a lot more. I really think that the subsumed ability should not be bound to loadout and slots.

 

I would be ok with a simpler unlock of the skill on helminth for all warframes to use once a warframe is subsumed. A small fee (an orokin cell?) could be payed to switch the subsumed ability on a warframe in the arsenal with any of the subsumed abilities whenever I'm setting it up before a mission. This last part is wishful thinking, but I'd really love to be as versatile as GW allowed me to do.

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please, for the love of god, make Ordis stop going off on monologues every single time I enter the helminth room. it was fine when it was only to remove cysts, but now that I'm regularly going back and forth between the helminth and the arsenal, Ordis has become such an annoyance that I'm tempted to actually mute him over this

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I think just being able to switch around the infused abilities at whim with configs after infusion would be a good enough thing for experimentation on that front. Main issue I feel is still the resource sink aspect, since that's a problem for new players who don't have a stash of resources that can basically absorb the hefty price tags outside of Bile.

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Two bits of feedback:

  1. Railjack materials need to have their costs re-evaluated, especially in the Bile category.
  2. There are some Helminth Infusions that are fun, but probably won't see a lot of serious play because it'll be hard to justify giving up power for fun. Maybe, these "fun" abilities could not count towards your one infusion per configuration. Ones I think that fit here: Perspicacity, Infested Mobility, Master's Summons, even Energized Munitions. Also, this could be a way to make the various "bad" warframe infusions gain a bit more relevance--make it so certain ones don't count against the one-infusion limit.
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27 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

consider that many players have maxed helminth, including some not very veteran players, which is a proof that the costs if anything need to be higher not lower

An increase in any of the costs for this system would be absolutely absurd. I sincerely hope you are joking. 

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On 2020-09-05 at 2:23 PM, RoarinTides said:

Alright, so I'm about halfway through the system naturally, going on 6th subsumed warframe and here is my piece on from what I have seen and discussed with clan mates.

Helminth system itself

First impressions of the idea: it is a great one for warframe. It added a new level of play and experimentation was amazing to hear about, the combos that are possible with it hyped me as an old player like a breath of fresh air. So far I am not disappointed with the variability and creativity with what I have seen people create on the subreddit and in my personal clan. A great potential of a new system to expand on abilities with more helmith one's in the future as well.

Resource costs

Now this right here I have several complaints about, from both a practical and a gameplay perspective. There are many resources in specific categories that are logically wrong and make me feel a bit worried about the design choices from whoever put them there. I'm going to go through all of them to say which one's are good/bad and also show all my resource values from a few days ago.

 NOTE: I am MR 29 with 4.6k hours in Warframe not including the early open beta, so a lot of my resource counts are abundant.

Oxides

This category is fine so far with it's contents, all of the resources are common enough to be used HOWEVER looking at some costs are demanding for newer players who unlock the system.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://i.imgur.com/MDpbOD9.png

So far from my experience with this has been lenient due to my abundance, the railjack resources in this category wasn't a problem until I was doing a test run. A few hours of railjack in the Saturn proxima (mostly to get my Quellor and Pennant finally) WITH a booster got me one load to feed helmith. Mind you this was just rushing and clearing out the objectives to get to the next attempt for the blueprints but with a booster, it still took hours to get just one load. I haven't tested the others appropriately but I do understand helmith isn't to be meant to be done in a day but, very little people play railjack without incentive due to it's separation from the main game as a whole currently.
 

Calx

A few problems in this category, mostly in the railjack category aside from Gallos Rods (as very little crafting needs them).

  Reveal hidden contents
https://i.imgur.com/8ivLZz9.png
The railjack costs are very high for Asterite and Cubic Diodes and I have barely spent either since the railjack rework part 1 (btw do we have an ETA on part 2?) and I STILL cannot feed asterite OR cubic diodes with almost all the resources I have for this category even after all the farming.

Biotics

This one's not really need of a touch up. Though players who don't have Helios (first time scans) / Oxylus (with augment) will be stopping every so often to scan tediously but the amount needed is not detrimental.

  Reveal hidden contents
https://i.imgur.com/OCVVkji.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/aT9mmsd.png
This one's fine personally, but that's because I scan a lot, otherwise the list becomes limited to open worlds.
However Oxylus is barred behind rank 5 with Solaris United so it's a long term investment to get it.
Still trying to get the oxylus mod from simarus but my priority currently is warframe bps and part bps for subsuming so manual scanning it is for me.

Synthetics

Fine with this section. Nothing needs a big change here.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://i.imgur.com/7oa84Xt.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/QfYGrAF.png

Nothing too raunchy here, all of these make sense to be here.
Maybe Aucrux Capacitors, in the few runs of railjack I only have got 7 since the screenshot was taken a day ago.

Pheromones

I have several problems with this and Bile category.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://i.imgur.com/e1g0bus.pngPheromones2

First off, the Bracoids and Trachons, I have used minimal amounts to make T3 guns and Internals since starting railjack and farmed the hell outta veil and I STILL cannot afford one feeding toss for Helminth for either.
Second, the bile sac...in pheromones...when there's a BILE category.
Third, on top of the bile, all juggernaut pieces being a pheromone feels strange. The category itself suggests the chemical ability to incite reactions (hunger, alertness, sexual, ect.) but the juggernaut's husk and bile sac don't feel like they should fit here. The husk, I feel, should be a biotics since it was apart of a living organism that is not related to pheromones (I see it as just armor plating made of biotic material). Bile should be in bile, full stop.

Bile

Oh boy, where do I start with THIS?

  Reveal hidden contents

AFxLTvm.png

This is where a majority of complaints are coming from for good reasons so I'll give every resource that I think has a problem a quick rundown. (Also linking their wiki pages.)

  • Copernics - the amount you need is 15k a pop, That feels like a bit much, maybe 10k?
    More reasonable in my eyes since with all the copernic I have, from my surplus, I can only feed it TWICE.
     
  • Cryotic - I have no issue with this because I did A LOT of cryotic front back in the day, and also relic farming via excavations.
    But the cost for one feeding is 3k, which means that is tied to 30 excavators without booster, which each one takes 120 seconds (not including time to scavenge a battery OR the time it takes to reach the next one if you're doing them one at a time) so that would equate to about 3600 seconds or 60 min for one feeding of cryotic.
    An hour to reach the goal once. Not even including the need of surplus which is used in a large quantity among other blueprints (I'm looking at you Sibear , I have many friends who still don't have you yet) so for the majority of a new player's time to get that AND surplus cryotic, they will be mind-numbed by the sheer amount of excavator missions they have to do.
     
  • Diluted Thermia - A limited time item you get very little of that you use for fighting Exploiter Orb. Not a fan of this one considering I'm not the biggest fan of doing anymore thermia fractures since I finished it.
    With it needing 5 means you need to fill up 5 canisters on fractures, and solo play would be a slog fest, requiring people to team up.
    However, the lack of a proper matchmaking (similar to how eidolons do and even exploiter herself) makes it hard to get a random team who actually want to do fractures without relying on recruitment chat (which in my experience is strict when it comes to their definition of "team composition" and some individuals will complain about people if they don't have a 1-for-1 build of what the recruiter expect).
    Going out of my way for thermia hurts even for me, maybe drop it to 3 instead of 5.
     
  • Fresnels - This one right here needs to drop. Full stop. The amount of fresnels you need for T3 gear for your railjack is at most is 20 for a single item.
    1k for a feeding is beyond unreasonable, there is no way in hell I can get that much especially since the reward is 1-2 bonus from veil proxima (This also is the same as bracoids but to a larger degree with Helminth's demand).
     
  • Somatic Fibers - Only way to get this at the moment is doing Lua Disruptions and that is unhealthy. One single node to have this drop off of a demolists and it's a 15% drop chance.
    Players and my level can easily do this, but they don't, people don't go to Lua for fun generally. The reason to go would mostly be for a few things: warframe parts (Octavia), sentient kills for rivens (when Plains is daytime), or the ascension halls (Challenges or the drift mods).
    Even fewer go for the Lua lens (speaking of which PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LOWER THE CRAFT TIME OF LENS) which are needing the fibers as well.
    I genuinely don't know how to go about the cost, but I am not inclined to even spend my fibers at all for the little time I even spent on that node.

Now specifically for the Railjack resources, here was the drops as additional rewards on end of mission.

700dOdl.png

In summary it's a great concept with potholes the size of manholes that need filling, mostly from the pheromones and bile categories.
I observed that at each section, there is a level of rarity/rate of demand among each category with what it observes to be Oxides, Calx, and Biotics being more common and accessible, Synths being a bit more uncommon or high cost on the commons, leaving Pheromones and Bile to be rarer and less accessible or a higher cost for the more common resources in the category. But as stated above, many of these costs are abysmally high for the demand it needs considering subsuming takes 80% each time for bile.
My suggestion to assist in this is also adding in fish parts or the new infested minerals as well, albeit some individuals are not inclined to fish/mine/hunt/gathering but that is what the Tuck Thumper's, Exploiter Orb, and the new Requiem Obelisks are for. With more resource additions mentioned it would ease the strain on the bile resources and give more incentive for other activities.

Functionality

So far from what I have tested among the frames I've subsumed (Oberon, Inaros, Frost, Wisp, and Banshee so far) I enjoy the ability to mix it up and take abilities on my min/max builds replacing one that would be inefficient with the min/maxing. For example, my Range+/Power- build I put on Wisp's ability, replacing Whip (since I don't have a stat-stick weapon nor do I care for one) and allowed it to do considerable cc and damage in one go.


It's an enjoyable system trying to see who would benefit from what and even a few of the Helminth's own abilities are cool but some feel the need for work (still not at marked for death but a friend got to it and uses it on Ash and he's having a blast but it is in no way a mood killer for the team).
I still have yet to use Master's Summon however due to how little it seems useful outside farming long-term missions. I use pets a lot but I think if it's just healing and recalling the pet isn't all too viable for 50 energy (though if it also revives the pet I may reconsider and must test now may edit this if I ever get to it). Edit: Master Summon DOES pick up downed pets but not dead ones, so I resend my previous statements above.

Side note: Perspicacity (Try saying that 3 times fast I dare ya) may be bugged I noticed with the parazon hacking mod since sometimes it will not proc/work when using it and going to a hacking console.

I haven't gotten too much time to play with everything just yet only because I'm still stuck trying to figure out what I want to use out of everything and costs are making me hesitant at points since I could be just shoveling in frames and eventually hit below feeding cost without paying attention to resources and hit that nasty spot everyone is talking about with Bile.

Ease of use

Biggest issue with EoU for me would be the ability to filter warframe vs helminth abilities and a see which warframes I subsumed without needing to if what ability is there,

for right now I can use recent but the helminth abilities that I gained from levels throws me off count for a second, and then I recount/reevaluate the list to recount which one's are frames.
Another thought with foresight is having a sort/filter functionality for energy costs, this would help greatly for those looking to switch an ability that has the same cost (like with the aforementioned Khora build) looking for a 25 energy cost ability to keep energy economy the same instead of taking a 50 cost or 75 cost ability.

Overall Summary

Hope this helps a bit, I'm still experimenting and tracking my resource gains (and now that all my boosters ran out I can see how long a free player would experience farming some of these more harder to obtain ones) and may edit this post.
The first few abilities feel the need for a bit of a touch up, and some better clarification is needed for things like the ammo efficiency ability and for Hildryn's subsuming adoption because it only shows the base cost UNTIL you head back to the arsenal and it shows the cost is actually now 10x it's value in shield and should be clarified AT helminth instead of finding out after the fact (which could lead to lost resources and with Bile as it is, would be detrimental to some folks).
Aside from that and bug fixing interactions I love this new system, keep up the good work please listen to some of the great ideas people post and player: remember to be kind and constructive, nothing gets done with vague feedback (doesn't have to be THIS long but a paragraph or two with facts and screenshots can go a long way to making the system better).

Now everyone of you who see this have a glorious day!

Thanks for patiently putting into non angry words and organized explanation of what I think (MR 26 950h player)

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1 hour ago, Traubenzuckr said:

consider that many players have maxed helminth, including some not very veteran players, which is a proof that the costs if anything need to be higher not lower

consider that many players can "EXPERIENCE X CONTENT", including non veteran players, which is proof that "X CONTENT" should be harder to get to

I hope you never have a say in game design in your life.

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A lot of abilities would be more attractive if we could get a special augment slot for them. Taking up both an ability and mod slot to make them worth having in your build isn't ideal.

Some other abilities just really need to be buffed or changed baseline to be more interesting.

Random ideas:

Make Spectrorage deal pure slash damage and have a 100% slash proc chance. It makes sense since we're dealing with breaking mirrors and it would make the damage actually useful. Could also throw in a touch of enemy level scaling to the damage value.

Nourish Strike: making this apply to ability damage would let us potentially transform abilities that only do a specific type of damage into an ability that's more effective against more enemy types. If you leave it as a weapon damage buff primarily it should be a bigger buff than something like Roar which applies to all types of damage multiplicatively where nourish is apparently just like having an extra elemental damage mod. 

Tempest Barrage: enemy level scaling + make it an armor strip without needing an augment

Ensnare: speed up the pull

Decoy: Could make it like a noise arrow, could make it like a mallet, could make it like a resonator, could leave it like it is but make it invincible or have a larger amount of health and blow up/stun enemies when it dies.

Ice Wave: add enemy level scaling to the damage maybe? Increase status chance to 1000% so it fully caps cold status in a single cast?

Pull: As many have suggested, make the energy orb drop chance aspect a debuff rather than requiring pull to get the kill. Pull is not meant to be a nuke/killing ability in the first place so it makes no sense to tie the energy orb mechanic to pull getting a kill.

Terrify: maybe reduce enemy defenses or act as a damage multiplier while the enemy is feared. Alternatively make enemies cower in fear rather than run in fear.

Null Star: it would be nice if the DR was based on maximum projectiles rather than current. Currently people only care about this or use this as a DR source, but the ability seems to be designed in a way where that shouldn't be the case. Maybe add enemy level scaling to the damage of the orbs and give them a 100% status proc chance (I'm guessing they don't have that already but it doesn't mention status chance in the wiki). 

Defy: add additional enemy level scaling or make defy ignore armor. Or if it's purely meant to be a defensive helminth pick, just let it be the full 1500 armor. Few people will pick it even then though.

Airburst: Perhaps leave a brief small tornado where it hits in the tap mode to continue sucking enemies to that spot for a short duration (like 2-3 seconds). That would make it less clunky since currently it just causes enemies to get thrown all over the place and isn't really useful as a tool to re-position enemies, which is what you seemed to be trying to make it into. Could have it as a maximum of 1-3 active tornadoes or something if they'd be a problem if you were spamming it.

 

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First of all, thanks for all the work you have done to make this game as nice and comfortable as it is.
My suggestion: please make it possible to infuse a determined ability in different ability slots per mod configuration.
I explain myself: what if I wanted to infuse one of my warframes with Empower in two different builds? I can, but I can just replace one ability with Empower for all the mod configurations. The problem is that in mod config A I want (I need) to replace my 2nd ability, but in mod config B my 2nd ability is far more useful than in A, so I want to replace my 3rd ability, and I can't.

Actually, I want to do this in my Saryn: I want to replace her 2nd ability with Empower in mod config A and I want to replace her 3rd ability with Empower in mod config B.

Can you change that? I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it.
Lastly, can you guys make it possible to continue infusing the same ability in more mod configs without having to remove it? Just for comodity: I would pay again for infusing the ability.

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So Some frames like banshee and hildryn are a bit more viable now in general play. This is good because I was getting sick of the mesa and saryn situation. Not to say that there's anything wrong with mesa or saryn really. Other frames are simply more useful now. Not looking to go into a big debate on this one, but that's generally how I'm feeling about this system so far. Oh and can we just choose how much of these resources we feed it? Just put a highlight on the bar so I know where the bonus is at. 

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On 2020-09-05 at 11:23 AM, RoarinTides said:

Oh boy, where do I start with THIS?

  Hide contents

AFxLTvm.png

This is where a majority of complaints are coming from for good reasons so I'll give every resource that I think has a problem a quick rundown. (Also linking their wiki pages.)

  • Copernics - the amount you need is 15k a pop, That feels like a bit much, maybe 10k?
    More reasonable in my eyes since with all the copernic I have, from my surplus, I can only feed it TWICE.
     
  • Cryotic - I have no issue with this because I did A LOT of cryotic front back in the day, and also relic farming via excavations.
    But the cost for one feeding is 3k, which means that is tied to 30 excavators without booster, which each one takes 120 seconds (not including time to scavenge a battery OR the time it takes to reach the next one if you're doing them one at a time) so that would equate to about 3600 seconds or 60 min for one feeding of cryotic.
    An hour to reach the goal once. Not even including the need of surplus which is used in a large quantity among other blueprints (I'm looking at you Sibear , I have many friends who still don't have you yet) so for the majority of a new player's time to get that AND surplus cryotic, they will be mind-numbed by the sheer amount of excavator missions they have to do.
     
  • Diluted Thermia - A limited time item you get very little of that you use for fighting Exploiter Orb. Not a fan of this one considering I'm not the biggest fan of doing anymore thermia fractures since I finished it.
    With it needing 5 means you need to fill up 5 canisters on fractures, and solo play would be a slog fest, requiring people to team up.
    However, the lack of a proper matchmaking (similar to how eidolons do and even exploiter herself) makes it hard to get a random team who actually want to do fractures without relying on recruitment chat (which in my experience is strict when it comes to their definition of "team composition" and some individuals will complain about people if they don't have a 1-for-1 build of what the recruiter expect).
    Going out of my way for thermia hurts even for me, maybe drop it to 3 instead of 5.
     
  • Fresnels - This one right here needs to drop. Full stop. The amount of fresnels you need for T3 gear for your railjack is at most is 20 for a single item.
    1k for a feeding is beyond unreasonable, there is no way in hell I can get that much especially since the reward is 1-2 bonus from veil proxima (This also is the same as bracoids but to a larger degree with Helminth's demand).
     
  • Somatic Fibers - Only way to get this at the moment is doing Lua Disruptions and that is unhealthy. One single node to have this drop off of a demolists and it's a 15% drop chance.
    Players and my level can easily do this, but they don't, people don't go to Lua for fun generally. The reason to go would mostly be for a few things: warframe parts (Octavia), sentient kills for rivens (when Plains is daytime), or the ascension halls (Challenges or the drift mods).
    Even fewer go for the Lua lens (speaking of which PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LOWER THE CRAFT TIME OF LENS) which are needing the fibers as well.
    I genuinely don't know how to go about the cost, but I am not inclined to even spend my fibers at all for the little time I even spent on that node.

Now specifically for the Railjack resources, here was the drops as additional rewards on end of mission.

700dOdl.png

In summary it's a great concept with potholes the size of manholes that need filling, mostly from the pheromones and bile categories.
I observed that at each section, there is a level of rarity/rate of demand among each category with what it observes to be Oxides, Calx, and Biotics being more common and accessible, Synths being a bit more uncommon or high cost on the commons, leaving Pheromones and Bile to be rarer and less accessible or a higher cost for the more common resources in the category. But as stated above, many of these costs are abysmally high for the demand it needs considering subsuming takes 80% each time for bile.
My suggestion to assist in this is also adding in fish parts or the new infested minerals as well, albeit some individuals are not inclined to fish/mine/hunt/gathering but that is what the Tuck Thumper's, Exploiter Orb, and the new Requiem Obelisks are for. With more resource additions mentioned it would ease the strain on the bile resources and give more incentive for other activities.

 

 

VERY, VERY well said. All of it. While I agree with all of your points, I'd like to focus/restate just about bile. 

I am in a similar boat (lots of play time, abundant resources), but I have just about had it with Bile. Most of my resources of that category have been completely drained. 

DE, please, please, please redetermine resource costs. And if Helminth resource costs are adjusted, please run a script that refunds players the difference. Many of the Helminth resource costs are completely over the top, If no script is ran, you are *significantly* punishing the players who have already utilized the system.

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I would like to be able to replace a different ability for each configuration tab when infusing. Let us say I want Eclipse in all my mod configs but in config A I want to replace ability 1, config B replace ability 3 and in config C I want ability 4 replaced.

This in one go. As opposed to having to infuse the warframe with Eclipse three separate times.

Edited by Frendh
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15 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

consider that many players have maxed helminth, including some not very veteran players, which is a proof that the costs if anything need to be higher not lower

You just don't get it, do you? Nobody is saying it's difficult to max the Helminth, because it's not. But you are acting as if maxing the Helminth means you're done with it, when that's not even close! It will still continue to cost you unreasonable amounts of resources to either subsume a warframe or add a subsumed ability onto another frame. I'll have maxed out Helminth by the time I have subsumed about 15 warframes, but... there are 44 warframes in this game. And some of them already require pretty significant resource costs to even build in the first place.

Currently, if you were to remove a subsumed ability from a frame and then add it back later you would have to pay the cost again meaning you could literally interact with this system ad infinitum - there have already been many posts in this thread about how this discourages experimentation because if it's going to cost you so much just to put one singular ability on a frame you might as well just choose the meta one. This is counter to DE's very own design philosophy for this system, as encouraging experimentation and build diversity was the reason they nerfed several subsumable abilities before the system was released.

Edited by CalamityUK
grammar
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4 minutes ago, CalamityUK said:

You just don't get it, do you? Nobody is saying it's difficult to max the Helminth, because it's not. But you are acting as if maxing the Helminth means you're done with it, when that's not even close! It will still continue to cost you unreasonable amounts of resources to either subsume a warframe or add a subsumed ability onto another frame. I'll have maxed out Helminth by the time I have subsumed about 15 warframes, but... there are 44 warframes in this game. And some of them already require pretty significant resource costs to even build in the first place.

Currently, if you were to remove a subsumed ability from a frame and then add it back later you would have to pay the cost again meaning you could literally interact with this system ad infinitum - there have already been many posts in this thread about how this discourages experimentation because if it's going to cost you so much just to put one singular ability on a frame you might as well just choose the meta one. This is counter to DE's very own design philosophy for this system, as encouraging experimentation and build diversity was the reason they nerfed several subsumable abilities before the system was release.

This.

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For a change of pace I will NOT be complaining about how bad the Bile economy is or that infusions should be free or nearly free, but rather...

 

Can we PLEASE have an option to change existing Helminth flower colors? Or at least get a preview of what the flower will look like after subsuming before confirmation? Some flowers have awkward placing and it's hard to say how they'll look like with ambient lighting in the room, and now I'm stuck with several decorations I cannot change, remove or recolor. This is gamebreaking! 

 

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I don't need to mention how horribly overpriced the railjack resources are for feeding, or the fact that Bile is horrible since you've heard enough of that. 

What i want is for you to use our configuration names instead of "configuration a,b,c" when replacing abilities. I don't necessarily know which one is my Eidolon build, or Steel Path build, etc. Now I'll have more specific builds for injected abilities. And on top of it, i have swapped configuration orders for various reasons. 

The point, just use config names if they have one...

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I happen to notice that fish and mining resources are mysteriously excluded from Helminth. Also defunct resources like Nav coordinates and orokin Ciphers.

Also why not have fass and vome residue as bile resources?

Please DE, first thing when you get back from your vacation please expend/visit helminth feeding.

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I can't begin to tell you how many times I have posted messages in some form or another to dealing with re-purposing the defunct resources through the years only feel as though I'm screaming to the void.  Hell, my imgur account is filled with pictures of it that I know haven't been answered:

Dkg0HLP.jpg

rhLBGpo.jpg

G7ybBZp.jpg

Nhdwcn2.jpg

ImNwWdR.jpg

DdYZ33z.jpg

And it just goes on and on and on :facepalm:

 

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This is a few days late, but I have to ask: Why does 23 of the 44 warframes cost >50% Bile to be subsumed? (It is over half the roster, if you didn't realize)

It is the most scarce in terms of available resources, and it's the one I'm always lacking and waiting on, Even longer than the time it takes to subsume a warframe, because I have so few of the resources and they are all, with the exception of Argon Crystals and Isos (To a lesser degree), imbalanced as hell. 3,000 cryotic? That's 30 excavators! I can get 3 argons in 5 minutes of Mot Survival with just Hydroid and Pilfering Swarm!

While the discussion over the balance of materials can be a topic for another post, my question still stands: Why do 23 warframes cost Bile? And ALL above 50%, no less?! Can we get it to change the cost to be lower for some (For example, Excal costing 40% Bile to subsume instead of 80%), or just change it entirely for others (Back to the Excal example: Change it from Bile to Calx instead)?

Other than that, I don't have any other particular issue with the system as a whole. Either change the requirements for subsuming a warframe, or change the required materials for Bile to balance it out so it's not so painful trying to build it up.

Clarification Edit: This is NOT talking about changing the bile costs for GIVING the ability to another Warframe, if you were wondering. The prices there are a lot more balanced and varied (For example, 80% to put Roar on others makes perfect sense, imo) than subsuming the frames themselves.

Edited by Xalicra
Clarification
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The Helminth is TOO expensive, I have barely subsumed 6 Warframes, I'm MR29 and already running out of resources, to top this, Ticker's debt bonds and Eidolons that need Team Restores and Ciphers are also too expensive, we need better rewards, 10k nano spores and 7.5k ferrite for 20min farming on Steel Path with Nekros and Korra is nothing.

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