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Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread


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Railjack resource amounts need to be at most 10% of what they are now. Asterite, fresnels, trachons, and nullstone amounts are particularly heinous.  

As for the non-railjack resources, some of the values are just wrong when compared to the other values in the same category. You can't seriously tell me 30 Grokdrul is equivilent to 300 hexinon.

Besides that though, I think the values are spot on. After all, this system was designed for players who have thousands of hours worth of resources sitting around doing nothing. It was always pitched as an endgame system for experienced players to mess around with - players shouldn't be surprised it is expensive.

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A system that adds as much to the game as Helminth SHOULD NOT ever be limited to "experienced players" like some sort of badge of "honor." It needs to be accessible to the entire playerbase because of how much variety and fun it brings to the table. If anything, Helminth should be balanced for new players first and foremost.

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Besides the bile issue (which is a HUGE problem), one thing I would like is for the ability to replace different base abilities with the same subsumed ability on different loadouts.

For example, I was trying out fire blast on Nekros.  I initially replaced Nekros' soul punch with fire blast, but wanted to also try out a build where I replaced shadows of the dead with fire blast (which is really fun, btw - lots of efficiency and the fire blast augment make you a spammy screamy boi).  I couldn't try out both, though.  I could either have fire blast replace the 1 or the 4, but not one on one loadout and the other on the other loadout.

But yes, for the love of all that is good in the world, fix the bile costs, please.

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The solution to the bile problem is honestly dead simple, nav coordinates, anti serum injector fragments, Kuva, Omega isotopes, Orokins ciphers, synthula, breath of the eidolon, vitus essence, and steel essence all don't have any category in the helminth system, we could assign these to the one category that's such a pain for everyone and inhibits any form of experimentation, boom, problem solved!

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13 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

A system that adds as much to the game as Helminth SHOULD NOT ever be limited to "experienced players" like some sort of badge of "honor." It needs to be accessible to the entire playerbase because of how much variety and fun it brings to the table. If anything, Helminth should be balanced for new players first and foremost.

Bruh, it's available at mr 8...

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Biggest problem in the feed system is the bile - it has very little and mostly only rare resources even veterans don't have huge amounts of.

I pretty much did my last feeding of bile since i no longer have anything left to feed - or have too few of important recource there left.

Edited by Ketec
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The biggest flaw in the helminth system is making me farm warframes I've previously mastered and scrapped. I can safely cross Ivara and vauban off my list of subsumed warframes because I'm not spending my nightwave credits on something I painfully grinded in the past, mastered and scrapped for the prime variants. At least not until (If) I ever reach a point I don't need anything from nightwave. But with the consistent new nightwaves there will never be a time where I don't really need my nightwave credits. It's already bad enough that I have to get something I already had and own a better version of through RNG, I've grinded out a few regular frames already and while it's nice to try out the new versions of bosses I haven't tried yet, does an MR28 founder who's mastered rhino and rhino prime really need to be grinding jackal when I've had Rhino Prime since he came out and scrapped regular rhino before hand?

 

Suggestions: Add all mastered warframes to simaris as crafted pieces. 

Subsume warframe part blueprint for fragment. Trade x fragments for missing part. I get that this games all about grinding. But, I've tried grinding out warframes and RNG has not been on my side at times and I've been left without a single piece for long periods of time. I understand that buying with platinum is supposed to be the alternative, but when I've spent hours grinding 2 parts (And sometimes a blueprint) (And 9 parts for equinox - don't do this again please) over and over with no rare drops, it pushes me away from playing the game and I don't feel like I can justify buying a warframe with platinum when I've already earned majority of it, sometimes spending hours, days, weeks or even months trying to get a warframe completed. Some form of long term guarenteed drops would help, especially with the helminth system a lot of us now need to return to our previous troubles of grinding because we didn't have the hindsight to keep something that wasn't primed.

Transfer forma - Allow transfer of forma to prime/wraith/vandal/etc. variant of a regular weapon/warframe. With the addition of helminth I now have even less reason to invest in a non prime variant of a warframe because I WILL be subsuming it, which means I will not be formaing any new warframes unless I have the motivation to farm them twice, and then a third for the prime. And even then, I don't feel like I want to forma the same thing twice. Allowing subsume to transfer used forma, or better yet, a universal feature to do so with weapons as well would help reduce anxiety in deciding what I can and can't invest in without wasting it when x update hits. While I doubt we'd get a similar system for weapons, I'd hate to find out that the hundreds of scrapped weapons now need to be refarmed. Making us do things we've already done doesn't feel fair, especially when this system was promoted as being more for the end game players, who are the more likely to already have done the work. The only part of helminth that feels fair for the end game players is the fact that we have excess resources, and don't need as many things so are more likely to be content sacrificing things. I feel like I'm being punished at times for having played for so long and it doesn't quite feel right. (And I've had no trouble getting to max level helminth)

All railjack resources for helminth should be reduced. Cryotic should be reduced as well.

 

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Is there any reason as to why subsuming warframes costs different resource types and amounts? And is there anywhere where all of the costs are listed? It is somewhat annoying to be planning on subsuming my Banshee after the current frame finishes, then be told that I need 80% bile. It would be nice if I could check the costs more easily and all the time instead of just when the subsuming is not occurring.

Also, I really like the garden that I am making; thanks for fixing the flower bug.

And can you make it so that it is possible to add an ability that is already on a warframe to more slots at a decreased slot? It made me feel a little robbed when I decided to put shooting gallery on 2 slots instead of 1 and had to pay the same amount that I did the first time.

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19 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

A system that adds as much to the game as Helminth SHOULD NOT ever be limited to "experienced players" like some sort of badge of "honor." It needs to be accessible to the entire playerbase because of how much variety and fun it brings to the table. If anything, Helminth should be balanced for new players first and foremost.

But... but it is though. MR 8 isn't that high. You could get there in a week. I know, I did.

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On 2020-09-06 at 11:32 AM, Fexhound said:

please, for the love of god, make Ordis stop going off on monologues every single time I enter the helminth room. it was fine when it was only to remove cysts, but now that I'm regularly going back and forth between the helminth and the arsenal, Ordis has become such an annoyance that I'm tempted to actually mute him over this

And Ordis' picture keeps blocking the resource costs and the controls for the Helminth. Which adds to the frustration.

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The system is a great addition. The only feedback I have is about subsume slots. Why giving increased slots at rank 1,4 and 7 when they are going to be unlimited at rank 10? 
I think we could get better improvements, since we are using resources and built warframes to level it up. I suggest that instead we get the subsume Warframe with unlimited subsume slots by default. And then, at the levels where we get subsume slots (1, 4, 7 and 10) we get one of these instead:
- reduced time for subsuming a warframe
- reduced % secretions used to subsume/install abilities
- increased secretions gained when fed
- faster recovery of hunger for a resource
- reduced resources used to feed when it's a "liked" resource
- reduced secretion cost to install helminth exclusive abilities

There's many options to replace the redundancy of the extra and unlimited subsume slots, I just showed the examples I came up with. I'm enjoying the variety of builds that this system brings to light but please reconsider the subsume slots existing in this new system. 

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1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

DE: Universal Vacuum isn't necessary and would be game breaking

Also DE: Here's some really high resource costs to do literally anything in this new system. You guys have vacuum right?

Vacuum, the resources of a founder, a resource booster active 24/7/365, a smeeta kavat that always gives resource booster buffs, and nothing to do except play the game 24/7... You have all that... Right? 

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Like many others have mentioned, Railjack and Bile resources should be looked at and reduced. Every other category is manageable except for that one due to it being the only category that has resources that players don't have millions of. I don't know if this is already in the system or not, but if not, then removing an infused ability should refund the cost of infusing it in the first place. This way people can try out different ability combinations without the fear of it being a complete waste of time and resources if it isn't good. The way this system is now, people are really hesitant to try out many possible combinations and rely heavily on youtubers or other people to show them what is good because if you decide to infuse an ability onto a frame and you don't like it, tough luck, you just wasted your time and valuable resources for nothing and gotta spend hours farming those resources again.

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5 hours ago, _Tormex_ said:

Is there any reason as to why subsuming warframes costs different resource types and amounts? And is there anywhere where all of the costs are listed? It is somewhat annoying to be planning on subsuming my Banshee after the current frame finishes, then be told that I need 80% bile. It would be nice if I could check the costs more easily and all the time instead of just when the subsuming is not occurring.

Also, I really like the garden that I am making; thanks for fixing the flower bug.

And can you make it so that it is possible to add an ability that is already on a warframe to more slots at a decreased slot? It made me feel a little robbed when I decided to put shooting gallery on 2 slots instead of 1 and had to pay the same amount that I did the first time.

The community added it to the wiki...since DE didn't:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Helminth

 

 

Regarding the costing... I agree.  The practical upside is that xp is based off of material costs, so you'll level faster.

I know this is stupid.  Post rank 3 you need only subsume and replenish resources to easily get to rank 10.  At the same time, I'm trying to find some positive.

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Let me start out by saying that The Helminth system is an amazing idea, adding lots of variety to a game that is already varied. It is unique, intuitive and the idea of mixing and matching warframe abilities can be so fun. However, it feels like there's a lack of synergy / after thought / proper testing to the actual thing. So far I've subsumed 4 warframes for 4 different abilities and infused them each into 4 different warframes. It also needs a lot of work in how it describes abilities you're about to infuse other than numbers. What tipped my bottle and had me make this thread was the 4th infusion. I got Nezha's Firewalker for Ash... in my mind it makes sense... through its infusion description AND numbers showing, it states that "Teleporting blasts the landing area with a ring of fire" and a base explosion damage of 1,250. Now being the silly me, I thought this would work well with warframes that can actually "TELEPORT", adding a CC to Ash's teleport with heat procs in which you would teleport into a group of enemies and not dying in the blink of an eye as well as giving this "ninja" warframe with his short ass invisibility ability a proper movement speed buff ( even though it's a merely 25% base increase that cannot be buffed ). However, that was not the case... only finding out AFTER I infused it and tested it in the ( broken ass ) simulacrum. 

That was the last straw of many misconceptions and misinformation in this update due to the lack of actual explanation in relation to what ability you're infusing along with which warframe you're infusing this ability with. Now sure, I don't expect them to change the animations, or GIFs of the ability infused to each and every warframe as that will take a ridiculous amount of time and is not even needed tbh, but I ATLEAST expect a proper, non misleading description of what I'm actually getting myself into. Now I might be wrong about this whole thing, and there IS an explanation for this outside the game, but hey.... it should be in the game itself as that information is important and actually mandatory.

Other synergy issues can be found on the many youtube videos out there giving a feedback of this whole broken ( as of now ) system, highly suggesting you go and watch some of them, however I will not be giving any names as this is not an ad. They're pretty obvious in my opinion and not that difficult to find.

My other issue is the same as everyone else's... the nerfs.... oh the nerfs. just my quick opinion on the matter here, nerfing Rhino's roar or any other "highly used" infusion ability, as DE states, isn't gonna make suddenly go pick Loki's Decoy. It'll just make me either go with Roar, but be disappointed or not go for either, as even with the nerf, Roar is still the better option in most cases. The problem isn't fixed with nerfs, Roar itself isn't a problem... the problem is with all the other useless, mindnumbingly unintuitive abilities that were picked. Instead of having nerfed roar, and still have it the most valid ability to choose, DE should've fixed their other ability choices, either with Buffing them.... you know.... for a change, or choosing a different one. But no.... NERF hurr dudrrrru nerf. As a wise man once said; Nerf is not the Answer

This update could've been great... could've been something else. Watch it die in a couple of months DE, that's if it's not by some miracle "fixed". Thank you.

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don't touch bile costs, progressing through helminth ranks is already trivial for a veteran player, you can do it completely passively, just by subsuming warframes and feeding it needed mats for that over the course of about two weeks

when you hit rank 8, infusing becomes trivial as well

all the players who have difficulty with the new system simply need to git better

don't bring this new system down to the level of the lowest common denominator, the game should test people's boundaries and broaden their thinking. 

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12 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

don't touch bile costs, progressing through helminth ranks is already trivial for a veteran player, you can do it completely passively, just by subsuming warframes and feeding it needed mats for that over the course of about two weeks

when you hit rank 8, infusing becomes trivial as well

all the players who have difficulty with the new system simply need to git better

don't bring this new system down to the level of the lowest common denominator, the game should test people's boundaries and broaden their thinking. 

in that case they should increase the cost of everything else aswel, as it stands it's out of line with other categories

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