Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread

[DroopingPuppy]

At least the resource required to fulfill bile is ridiculous. I don't think that they have a reason for this.

[Secave]

The new Helminth system is a good base to start with. But lots of improvements are needed. So here are my 2 cents on the new system organized with those titles:

Categories, Ressources, Subsuming/Abilities & Future content.
( I hope This would be usefull since I don't know if DE read  20+ pages on one topic, doupt it but let's hope ).

 

________      Feedback Prime      ________

 

THE CATEGORIES:

They are fine, the only one that have problems is the "Bile" one.

The bile category have a lot of problems (funny that the "bile" ressource is not in that group. Would help a bit to move it since this category is the worst).
The other problem is linked to railjack ressources, a point I will talk about later.

 

THE RESSOURCES:

Most ressources are well balanced (some need a bit of tweaking) but the worst part are the railjack ressources that ask INSANE number to use. I don't understand why you did that. I've done a bit of railjack and I don't have enough for ALL railjack ressources. I don't have even 1/3 needed for the majority of them. This is a HUGE problem & I really don't understand who think it's a good idea to make railjack ressources more costly than base game ressources.

It's a new mode so 90% of the player-base don't have many of them. Make them cheaper than the other ones could make ppl want to farm some of them and actually PLAY railjack missions...

So yeah, they need.... NEED to be a priority for the next fixes.

The time it take to Helminth to "like" again a ressource would be reduces too. The way it's now doesn't incentive the player to test combinaison. I'll talk more about that in the next category.

 

SUBSUMING/ABILITIES:

Subsuming warframes work as intended (23h wait as expected, not that bad).

Since the bile category is really hard to fill & the railjack ressources are way too costly you can't really enjoy the abilities infusion system.
Because of those 2 things, instead of being motivated to test builds, mix of warframe abilities for fun (wich I tried), for a laugh, or for efficiency -> You try safe combinaison that ppl already found. No creativity here since wasting bile will block your progression to infuse new abilities or subsuming other frames.

Then people will infuse abiltities that are bad (Decoy for exemple) but don't need bile just for the sake of infusing abilties & rank up Helminth. Not because they want but because it bypass the bile category. The usefull abilities (like Blood Altair) will not be infused.

We also need to be able to replace different abilties in differnt build instead of only one. That double the cost. Here is an exemple.

Exemple:
I want to infuse an ability on Gauss. I want to replace his 4 in 2 builds & his 3rd in the last build with the same helminth ability. To do that, I need to infuse 2x the same ability. Wich will cost me double the secressions. I don't have enough bile so I'll just don't put anything or put an useless ability on an other frame just to rank up Helminth. Not because I want to have fun with shuriken or decoy on that frame but because it will give me xp and that's it.

 

______ TO RESUME ______

The system have incredible potential. I play this game since the beginning (after closed beta) and that system is something I'm super pumped about. A bit like when Parkour 2.0 was coming. Something that evolve the BASE gameplay. Not something that add pretty new things or side gameplay content (operator) but something that truly make playing as warframes better.

 

Bonus:

FUTURE CONTENT:

So... what do I hope to see for this system in the future 

• Révélation

   

  • New Helminth abilties or variant of current ones (ex: An abiltiy that boost X% range/duration instead of strength like "Empower").
  • Maybe a way to change abilities ? (ex: Blood Altair doesn't heal but do damages/slow/do something else).
  • Buff/Changes/Tweaks/Rework to ALL less usefull/weak abilties that are in the Helminth system pool. (That could be usefull to avoid total rework on certain frames).
  • More powerfull Helminth abilities that could only replace ultimates.
  • After lvl 10 (like lvl +/- 12). Helminth can create an infested body and use 4 abilities from the pool. He could "help" like the liches, or becoming a frame on its own that you could use.
  • Let's go crazy (why not :p, I'm pumped). At lvl 15 Helminth can create a 4 legged infested "mech" you can summon. One of the abiltiy from the "mech" is one from the pool but better (+50% range/stre/duration).

   

 

[Electropuncher]

19 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

he communicates with your warframe telepathically

No, he makes noises and the subtitles bleed into the rest of the UI and are so tiny that he's just kind of making extended farts and whispers in my direction. And when he does "talk," all he does is loop the same "lore" and whine about how I'm not feeding him fatty foods.

[_Tormex_]

After play-testing the new energized munitions ability, the duration seems to be too low. The duration is so low that it felt like I barely have time to finish the cast animation before the buff was over at 180% duration. Fun concept, but not really practical when other better abilities exist.

[Proscriptor]

did you infuse it on a rank 30 warframe?

[vaarnaaarne]

The base duration at Rank 3 ability for it is five seconds. That's pitiful for a 50 energy ability that won't even do basically anything at all outside of a limited array of weapons, rendering Energized Weapons entirely non-viable even on paper. The only use I could come up with off-hand would be Athodai secondary fire, if it even applies to it (like I'd test around a dead-on-arrival ability).

[_Tormex_]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Grim_Dude said:

Energized Munitions is pretty fun to use, but the duration feels kinda too short to fully enjoy.

I probably use a Duration Increase to at least 10 seconds, alternatively making it a channeling ability would be entertaining as well.

I totally agree with this. Having it be a channeled ability would be a ton of fun

[(PSN)Grim_Dude]

52 minutes ago, _Tormex_ said:

I totally agree with this. Having it be a channeled ability would be a ton of fun

Would synergies greatly with that Soma Prime mod as well and solve a few weapon's poor ammo economy

[faizdikra]

Since helminth gave us a lot of diversity build, i want to buy a lot of new mod config for each Warframe i had. The problem is i won't spent on loadout slot cause it's not fit my habit. Except for end game content like Eidolon/Profit Taker, i put my special equipment on that loadout. I usually getting bored each mission, so i want to change my Warframe only rather than my weapon, especially like in low/mid level content mission. I use loadout slot for my Warframe articula for orbiter decoration. Beside, i want to keep original skill for each Warframe (yes, at least there is one original skill mod config).
What i want is... could we get "default mod config" each we swap frame? So the default mod config wouldn't always based on first left, and we could use our mod config base on our current mood.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

An easy way to incentivise Empyrean content would be to severly reduce the amount of railjack resources needed to feed Helminth. Resources like Fresnels and Isos are rares, but you need 1k and 400 respectively to feed Helminth. These should be changed to 50. Same goes for the common resources, the amounts are way too high. Helminth takes 10-20k resources per feed for the common resources. That should be reduced to 1k-5k.

Some other resource numbers such as Cryotic, Somatic Fiber and Diluted Thermia are also totally not in balance with everything else.

[Proscriptor]

13 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

The base duration at Rank 3 ability for it is five seconds. That's pitiful for a 50 energy ability that won't even do basically anything at all outside of a limited array of weapons, rendering Energized Weapons entirely non-viable even on paper. The only use I could come up with off-hand would be Athodai secondary fire, if it even applies to it (like I'd test around a dead-on-arrival ability).

This ability is for frames that spend the most time shooting, and is useless on casting frames. There aren't many "shooting frames" actually, so that is what limits the applicability of this ability the most.

However, used en. munitions extensively with mirage and it's amazing. It's more than viable. 

It's natural that it would make more of a difference on some weapons than others. i don't see a problem there. 

It does't work with athodai.

I don't see a need for any changes to be made to this ability.

[SteveCutler]

It's already been ages since this update has come out and there are 22 pages of feedback here.

When are you going to fix the bile costs!?

It's just insane. It completely invalidates all the other resource types and makes it pointless that the Helminth has appetite for certain resources in those other categories. You literally never have to look out for the green arrow on oxides, calx, synthetics, biotics, or pheromones. There's literally never not a green arrow on them. Resources are plentiful on them.

The reason for this is because bile is such a terribly balanced resource that it completely bottlenecks the entire system. Everything else is held back and kept waiting because of bile. There are far too few resources that count towards bile, they give far too little secretions, and they take far too long to recharge back to a green arrow.

You have all these different categories of resources and they just don't matter at all. The entire system is about bile, and basically just waiting several days for Thermal Sludge to recharge to a green arrow for a single feeding, then another several days, then another several days, then another several days...

[Minion135]

I seem to still be missing a Lotus flower for one of my subsumed frames. I've done 3, but still only see 2 flowers in Helminth's room. :O

[Proscriptor]

5 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

An easy way to incentivise Empyrean content would be to severly reduce the amount of railjack resources needed to feed Helminth. Resources like Fresnels and Isos are rares, but you need 1k and 400 respectively to feed Helminth. These should be changed to 50. Same goes for the common resources, the amounts are way too high. Helminth takes 10-20k resources per feed for the common resources. That should be reduced to 1k-5k.

Some other resource numbers such as Cryotic, Somatic Fiber and Diluted Thermia are also totally not in balance with everything else.

if the costs were significantly lower people would be incentivized to play railjack 

the big complaint would then be how DE can't make railjack inherently appealing so they "force" people to play it this way to justify it's existence

this would cause the dislike toward railjack to intensify

ultimately the result would be worse than it is right now

[RivaAurelius]

6 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

An easy way to incentivise Empyrean content would be to severly reduce the amount of railjack resources needed to feed Helminth. Resources like Fresnels and Isos are rares, but you need 1k and 400 respectively to feed Helminth. These should be changed to 50. Same goes for the common resources, the amounts are way too high. Helminth takes 10-20k resources per feed for the common resources. That should be reduced to 1k-5k.

Some other resource numbers such as Cryotic, Somatic Fiber and Diluted Thermia are also totally not in balance with everything else.

This is all true. If you felt like you were getting more from the time you were putting into Empyrean, you would invest more time into it. If you felt like you were getting very little from the time investment, you wouldn't even bother. The costs for cryotic and most of the railjack resources are way out of balance. 

[Very_Melon]

Energized Munitions needs either double the duration, or half the cost and casting time.

[Proscriptor]

it's a one handed action, cast time isn't a factor

[Very_Melon]

6 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

it's a one handed action, cast time isn't a factor

You can't SHOOT until it's done casting.

 

3 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

the big complaint would then be how DE can't make railjack inherently appealing so they "force" people to play it this way to justify it's existence

They already force people to do it, you need some resources that only drop in railjack missions to make the mech.

[Proscriptor]

Just now, Very_Melon said:

They already force people to do it, you need some resources that only drop in railjack missions to make the mech.

you see? the small amount of resources required for the mech is interpreted (by you right now, but certainly by others as well) as being forced to play railjack

this enormously strengthens my point

[_Schokolade_]

Bile has no easily farmed resources and im essentially out of Morphics T_T

[Solarsyphon]

Can we get expedite suffering to do the damage in an aoe? 
The problem currently is targets already effected by bleed or toxin are likely to die any way but if it was aoe it would hit targets not effected.

[_Anise_]

ivaras subsumed quiver can't cloak your own companions, half of the reason for getting it was to prevent my stupid kavat taking damage! also it has no timer like it does on ivara so I have no idea when the stealth will run out! when used on the ground or an ally!

ican understand it not working on sentinels because that would be effective stealth but why not on cats ?

[Xepthrichros]

I am here to add my voice to the complaints about Bile. I am not sure if it was intended or oversight, but every resource in that category is not as common as the requirements seem to assume them to be.

[(PSN)NostrathomasJ]

Bile:

Please add another material to the bile category. Bile has been required for almost each action I have done with the helminth. I can deal with the other categories and their costs but to be honest, the bile category (and lack of material choices in it) is making me want to stop leveling/using the helminth altogether.

Sentient Appetite:

I was looking forward to unlocking this however, this metamorphosis is a total joke. For a rank 8 metamorphosis I assumed this would be actually useful, how wrong I was to think that. If you are going to ask for that many sentient cores, please make this ability ACTUALLY fully reset or at least neutralize the helminth's appetite. I am better off just waiting out the time gating mechanic of the helminth resetting it's own appetite to keep my resources.

[Oreades]

So far the only thing I think I'm really enjoying is that it makes the door open when you walk by it. Which was really all I wanted from this expansion(?). So kudos I guess.