Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread

[Lockhart77]

Are you guys sure you didn't put an extra 0 for asterite feeding cost? 5000 asterite for a single feeding seems too much for a resource that doesn't drop as common as coppernics and such

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

3 minutes ago, RazorCure said:

I still can NOT use Subsume. It does jack S#&$.

Time to come back in 6 months when this might work.

Mood. Unfinished content be like 

[MaxSaga]

I leave a suggestion I made in another section, but it is mostly for this new system

 

[(PSN)bullet1351]

11 hours ago, tennomantra said:

Small qol improvement would be if selecting ie. Biotics on the left, would highlight Biotics secretions on the right, without having to mouse over them, as I do in this image:
 

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Addition to the railjack resource requirement comments- Synthetic requirements seem reasonable, up to par with non-railjack resources.
"Aucrux Capacitors 25"; "Kesslers 300" "Komms 25"
Here's another image showcasing the inconsistency of RJ resource requirements:

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Certainly, those values shouldn't be balanced around my experience alone, but I can't judge them on anything other than the amount of materials I've collected throughout the time I've played Railjack.
Perhaps info from more players would help determine which of these values are most out of place.

edit: I understand the idea of including all content resources for helminth feeding and if we will need to run a few railjack missions from time to time, in order to keep feeding efficiently, that sounds perfectly fine. But as it stands right now, with these values, it seems that it'd take an unreasonable amount of Railjack missions to get enough of some of these resources for a single feeding. I believe RJ resource requirements should be balanced with that idea in mind.

Comment on Helminth ability sound effects, I'm hoping at least some of them are placeholders. Personally, Gauss audio effects being used for Infested Mobility is irritating, especially in case you'd want to use it with Gauss himself, he'd then have 2 abilities ending with the same sound effect.
I didn't mind Empower's, but other people might have opposite experiences.

The railjack resources are way to high. They are tuned like they are nano spores or detonite amples things we gained hoards of overtime when doing other things. If you are doing a railjack mission getting these resources you are using them to build up your railjack then when your railjack is where you want it you stop playing railjack and stop gaining the resources. Not to mention the rate of gathering the resources when farming railjack is much lower then the other resources since you have to get many of them from space debris which you will not be getting if you are just running the objective.

On the topic of Bile there are a few problems that compound on each other making this the hardest to fill.

1. It has few resource types that can be used to fill it (9).

2. Three of those resources are railjack resources so its basically 6.

3. We have somatic fibers, thermia, cryotic and argon which have very limited drop locations and you usually only have 1 or 2 argon at a time before they decay

4. Which leaves thermal sludge and morphics which are fine but helminth demands variety

Compared to the other sections Oxides has 8 resources but we have tons of them (alloy plate, ferrite, gallium, salvage, tellurium, oxium.) Not as much carbides and titanium but thats back to the railjack resources. The other sections have much more to choose from and we have greater amounts of those resources.

[Velaethia]

47 minutes ago, RazorCure said:

I still can NOT use Subsume. It does jack S#&$.

Time to come back in 6 months when this might work.

are you trying to subsume prime warframes?

[IrisDragoon]

sad to say i also fell for the Helminth trap at release and removed my cyst on accident. the ability to put it back on my Nidus would be great.

[Wanderwhys]

After testing in the Simulacrum it seems that Empower does NOT affect Titania's Razorwing Dex Pixia damage like more power strength should. the damage numbers stayed the same with or without Empower's 50% power strength boost.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

I got Helminth today playing only Steel Path bounties and Iso Vaults, no minigames necessary, thanks again for the change DE!

I'm loving figuring out the best way to feed it all my millions of suddenly useful resources, the animations are great too.

Being unable to pay plat to rush subsuming a frame was disappointing, but not the end of the world.

[RazorCure]

38 minutes ago, Velaethia said:

are you trying to subsume prime warframes?

No. Non primes.

[Snowpoint-Prime]

57 minutes ago, Wanderwhys said:

After testing in the Simulacrum it seems that Empower does NOT affect Titania's Razorwing Dex Pixia damage like more power strength should. the damage numbers stayed the same with or without Empower's 50% power strength boost.

Aww, I was hoping that Empower could make crazy exalted builds.

[ToKeSia]

i have very too few bile (very awful) and Clax (because fortuna and eidolon both doesn't have survival mode so i has only a few around 6-7k which use for spending level up helminth all), please reduce the resource that spend on helminth.

[(PSN)Crazy_Mr_J]

The first little thing i've apparently seen is : Infested Mobility seems doesn't affect Ivara - with the Parkour Velocity Bonus - when Prowl is active (Prowl's augment mod equiped at same time)

The (big) second thing is : when i've firstly wanting to use the Helminth system for add Infested Mobility on my Ash, i've seen this functionnality is using, following this steps

1) go on the chair with the Warframe we wants to add an ability in place of an other (in this case : Ash Prime)

2) select the ability we wants to have (in this case : Infested Mobility)

3) select the ability we wants to replace (in this case : 4th ability)

4) select the number of configs you wants to apply (in this case : config A, for a Spy build)

5) spend percentages of ressources types needed for apply

The problem is : when you are in the 3rd step, you must select one ability to replace ; it's ok, but in the 4th step, when you wants to apply this ability at same time in an other config, you must apply on the same ability, but in my case for Ash Prime, for my Config A - for Spy build - i want to apply this ability on my 4th ability, and apply on Config B - for Capture build - i want to apply this ability on my 3rd ability, and i can't do that, because, after step 5, i can't reapply the ability on my Ash for prevent this problem (i can just removed this new ability)

Can you changed that please ? it's a real problem for this - nice and fun - system

[(XBOX)DS Monkfish]

A minor issue, but is the flower that grows when a frame is subsumed supposed to vanish when we subsume another frame? I really wanted a remembrance garden for my sacrificed frames 😞

[Pinegulf]

This has happened thrice now.

Condition: Exiting Necralisk. Twice to orbiter once to mission.

Effect: Pc sounds fail, keyboard fails, only way out is via power reset.

 

After first time game lost all my settings. It doesn't not send any logs as far as I see.

 

Edit: four times now.

[FaridRLz]

Right now Infested mobility numbers are:

60% Sprint speed
30% Parkour speed
8 seconds duration

All scalable with their respective duration/strength a multiplicatives

Could any one have a revision on a modified Infested mobility with this numbers?:

45% Sprint Speed
40% Parkour speed
10% reload speed
7.5% attack speed/fire rate
10 or 12 seconds duration

This may look like a Volt's Speed ability, but just for the sake of make the whole state of "overdrive" feel make your entire movement smoother without any risky dps improvement

Anyways, keep up with the good work!!

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

3 hours ago, ToKeSia said:

i have very too few bile (very awful) and Clax (because fortuna and eidolon both doesn't have survival mode so i has only a few around 6-7k which use for spending level up helminth all), please reduce the resource that spend on helminth.

You're MR6, so I don't know why you are speaking on this in a manner akin to that of someone who has helminth.

Either way, it's meant to be resource intensive. That is what prevents new players from getting it all like those who have worked for it. Some of them are indeed ridiculous even for long time players. Railjack resources needed are insanely high. Most of then are absolutely fine though. 

[wizardeiges]

On 2020-08-28 at 11:44 PM, wizardeiges said:

Spoiler

 

I've reached rank 4 in the helminth system and I can't really make progress anymore because everything costs bile and bile is absolutely ridiculously overly expensive.

Lets have a look at what bile consumes - bile being required for every single thing available in rank 4:

Copernics : 15,000
cryotic : 3,000   - This is 30 minutes ish WITH a booster in excavation. bruh.
isos : 400
morphics: 40
thermal sludge : 50

^ These are the more "common" ones and you'll max these out with the red downwards arrow as you hit rank 4,so now you need to give the helminth other resources,the more rare ones to HOPEFULLY slightly chip away at the red arrow that's giving everything massive penalties.

fresnels : 1,000
diluted thermia : 5
somatic fiber : 10

Lets talk about these. one THOUSAND fresnels? this is insanity,I've maxed out my intrinsics,I've gotten all the best railjack weapons(at least 1 of each archetype),the best armor,boosters,cores,etc.  I've farmed for all of the avionics.  I would consider myself someone who has played a huge amount of railjack.
I have around 2 thousand fresnels after all of my railjack playing. This system requiring one thousand to just barely change the other resources in red is way to much.

Onto diluted thermia:   This is required to fight a orb and requires you go through a very long process to obtain. This even using it at all is silly and ontop of that,5? you wot m8. If you're going to make me spend thermia on this then let it be only 1 and let it remove all red arrows on a single use.

somatic fiber : this is a very rare drop. The best lens in the game only requires 5 of these.   Helminth on the other hand requires 10x at a time to barely chip away at the massive red arrow penalty hitting other resources.
Somatic fibers have a 15% chance at dropping from a demolisher in disruption lua.  You can't just go out and farm these things as you have to trigger them.  Somatic fibers are a rare resource from a enemy you can barely farm.   Nothing in this game asks for more than 5 and when it does,it gives you a permanent item that's currently the best in the game(the lens).


So your choices are :

Get stuck at level 4 because these resources and the costs of them are insanity,or wait a full month,feeding the helminth 1 frame per 24 hours since there is a timer on it,and hope that the resources the frames eatin over an entire month is enough to push you to level 8 so you can start using sentient gear to remove the massive penalty on items marked with red arrows.

Different Suggested solutions:
suggestion 1:
I would ask that you shift around a lot of the different  resources between bile and the rest of the other excretions so you don't have bile,the only one all actions use,completely cripple progression with its very hard to get resources stopping progression. (by very hard I mean the somatic fiber,thermia,and fresnels which all become mandatory if you don't have millions of cryo and the other resources since the red penalty is so heavy that it will purge every resource you have for barely any bile)

suggestion 2:
Make the different actions require different excretions,this means removing bile from a couple actions. 

suggestion 3:
Add cooldowns to the red arrows so they aren't permanently fully red until you purge huge amounts of rare resources. Let us circumvent the cooldown by giving away credits so we have a stable credit sink.

suggestion 4:
Remove the 24 hour cooldown on subsuming so I can get the experience from subsuming.  I already spent several days grinding endlessly just to be able to get the helminth segment,and I blew 50 plat to get around the 24 hour craft time on the helminth segment,AND i've spent a lot of time farming the warframe parts and getting lucky with their drops,and i've spent the time farming the resources to make the frames,I've spent the plat to have the warframe slots,and i've waited 3 days to craft the frame.
Putting another 24 hours in the mix for each.and.every.single.warframe.back.to.back. is way to much,I've done your grind,please let me subsume so I can make progress and not have to spend a month waiting behind nothing but a 24 hour timer per frame.      I'll even take a 3 hours timer,24 hours is way to much considering how much time has already been spent getting this far just to use the thing.

suggestion 5:
Cut almost all of these costs in half and some of them like asterite and fresnels down to 300 each

Suggestion 6:
Let us use a single forma to completely reset all red arrows to the highest tier green arrow

Suggestion 7:
randomize what excretion something is using every time you apply it. 
example:
empower costs calx,pheromones,and bile.
 

If I apply empower,make it so that apply it a second time rolls the excretions to use different excretions.

so if I use empower which costs calx,pheromones,and bile.  On my second applying it,the 3 excretions would be replaced by the other 3 excretions and it would keep swapping between the set of 3 every time i apply empower. Make this happen with all skills. Then add a timer ontop of this so that a skill isn't locked to those 3 excretions. Let them rotate between the 6 when left alone and not applied for,say,5 hours. a rotating appetite makes sense and this lets us use more different resources. currently all skills either use calx or bile. make it so there is a chance any skill could have any set of 3 excretions,you just have to catch it at a good time to get it costing the resources you have.


I haven't had that many issues with the other ones just yet. The asterite cost is ridiculous though in one of them,just about all railjack resource costs in here is crazy.   Bile has stopped my progression so I can't give you much more feedback than this right now.


Edit:
Feedback on helminth skills:

Infested mobility : no other movement skill in the game costs this much energy,please reduce the energy cost.  Also let us recast mid skill like all other movement skills in the game.
I really like infested mobility,I just wish I could use it more.


Edit #2
I've hit rank 8 and let me tell you,I've purged about a year and a half worth of materials.   I thought being able to use sentient loot,the level 8 perk,would help me reach rank 10 after blowing so many resources to get to it.
I was very wrong.
"Sentient appetite: feed sentient resources to the helminth,to increase its appetite for one resource that it no longer craves"
Spoiler,this is completely random on what it chooses and there is no way to change it yourself without spending sentient parts in order to do so. Also,each sacrifice of sentient parts for something random will give you 0 experience and 0 % to any of the excretion materials it effects.
Also,absurdly enough the shenanigans doesn't end there. It DOESN'T make it crave the item,it merely slightly boosts the meter by 50% AND trying to sacrifice multiple times in the same attempt will not stack so if I purge 1,200 sentient cores labeled to increase hunger by 50% on a single item? I get 50% only.  If I mix items like cores and anomaly shards,I still only get 50%. 
Also,that 50% is a load of lies.  What it means is 50% of what the arrow is at.

From what I can tell there are 5 states of feeding a item:
neutral,this does not have a arrow.
Green arrow 1/2
green arrow 2/2 (full green arrow)
And then there is 
red arrow 1/2
red arrow 2/2

So in order to get back up to a green arrow 2/2   I have to eat 5 sentient items but not all at once as 50% doesn't stack even if you try to make it.
so If my carbides is at red arrow 2/2 I need to:
eat a ton of sentient items and cross my fingers that the next time I eat sentient items,it'll roll around to carbides.

Then I have to do that 4 more times.
Yeah,good luck. I have a higher chance at spitting into a glass on a record table spinning at 200 miles a hour considering all of my items I can feed at this point are all red arrow 2/2 because it took just about everything I had to get to this point. All of my items except the more ridiculous stuff like 5k asterite etc.

Lets get some sugar for this bowl of lies.
Here are the sentient stats,keep in mind you need to consume them 5x per red arrow 2/2.
intact sentient core: 75
exceptional sentient core: 10
flawless sentient core : 5
anomally shard : 2
cetus wisp:5

x5 all of this for each red arrow 2/2 you have and x5 the cost every time anything goes into a double red arrow.
I've just purged over a thousand cores and every single one of my items (minus the asterite etc) are STILL in red arrows as it seems to bounce around to the red arrow 2/2 first before rotating around to anything not at red arrow 2/2 and since everything is a 2/2 red arrow,not even my stockpile of years of hunting sentients can get me out of this massive red arrow hole. 
You seem to have made 3 different "100%s"
a 100% of red arrow,a 100% of neutral,and a 100% of green arrow.
You'd think a "50%" would send me from red arrow 2/2 to neutral and then another 50% would send me from neutral to green arrow 2/2.  Neutral is the middle ground between red arrow 2/2 and green arrow 2/2.

I've come to the conclusion that this entire system was made based on the 0.0001% of players with inventories so massive that they've been playing for 8 years and have played every day over those 8 years. Either that or the testing took place on a test server with unlimited resources.

I usually spend at least 2 hours a day playing warframe and that's on a busy day. I have a 3,996 hour playtime on steam.
I have continued playing over several years across all game content and rarely do I ever play anything else. I say all of this to explain that I am not a average player and because of that I expected to be able to sky rocket to at least level 9 which I can't.   If I can't reach this level then I worry for average players who don't play warframe as much as I do. Players who don't have so many hours to burn every day over several years.

You made this available to MR 8 players. This is barely even doable for people who have spent literally thousands of hours grinding.
Now excuse me while I go sit in a corner and scream into it for spending way to much time typing this and spent way to many resources to justify my helminth level.  Had I known how deep this hole would go before starting it,I would have stopped at level 1.

I sure hope you read all of this..you did ask for feedback afterall. 
I've done my best to remain patient and respectful.   I love Warframe and i've rarely ever critisized anything about this game but this helminth update..bruh. I just can't right now. 
I sure hope some huge changes happen soon because I want most of these resources spent back if possible. These aren't just resources,they are time.and a lot of them don't come as easy as nano spores. Please have respect for a players time.. 

 

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bruh that 5k asterite and general railjack resource cost.

 

Edit #3
It has been 23 ish hours since I last sacrificed something and after looking at my materials and the red and green arrows,apparently,over time the red arrow 2/2 goes back up to neutral as several resources I had in red arrow 2/2 are either now red arrow 1/2 or at neutral.
Nothing anywhere tells you that there are cooldowns to red arrow 2/2. nothing from you(de),nothing in patch notes,and nothing in the game.  If I knew this going in I would have waited before blowing a chunk of my more rare resources thinking there was no way out of the red arrow 2/2 hole unless i gave up thousands of sentient items or a ridiculous amount of rare resources.

If you need it,I can type out information players need to know about the helminth system going in because no one at DE thought it was important to tell players that there are hidden cooldowns to items stuck at red arrow 2/2 penalties.     My words in that sentence may be harsh but we really should have had this information with the helminth systems release.

Holy hell this is frustrating.

I'll help out by typing up information players need to know about the helminth system. Feel free to make edits or just copy paste in. Sorry for the bad punctuation. 

If your available items get to the highest penalty signified by a full red arrow,you have a few options to remove this red arrow. These options are as followed:
1: Get to rank 8 and use sentient items. Note that the item it will remove penalties from is random and you cannot stack these items all at once.  You can only remove 50% of the red arrow penalty at a time per sentient item feeding. 

2: Wait for the hidden cooldown timer to roll over,after the hidden cooldown timer rolls over it will remove some of the red arrow penalties across several items that you previously had a red arrow penalty on.

3: Feed it a item that is not marked by a red arrow within the specific excretions item selection.

Note: Argon crystals are available to feed the helminth for bile,but because they decay rapidly,none of you will know this without us telling you or you read a wiki on some external website.

Oh,that reminds me: 
Suggestion #8:
Make all feedable items be shown regardless of whether or not you have that specific resource. Make them grayed out boxes so players will know what they can farm to feed for a excretion.

Suggestion #9:
Make the invisible cooldown timer for red arrow penalties visible to players so they can plan around it if they prefer to wait rather than spend thousands of sentient items trying to undo the damage caused by making 99% of the items red arrow 2/2 penalties.


Suggestion #10:
Tie some kind of reward system to the helminth system so there is a reason to subsume all non prime warframes in the game,not just frames you want skills off of,this will get people experimenting with more available skills which is a cool thing AND it pushes them to get to max rank in the helminth system.   rewards I would like to see is MR tied to each unique frame subsumed,even if it's just 100 MR per warframe consumed that's still an incentive to subsume all warframes.   Trophies are cool too,maybe a helminth trophy at 25 different warframe subsumed.     A shoulder armor with any frame head/helmet we've subsumed would be cool too,much like the grineer shoulder armor with their helmet on it and the corpus shoulder armor with a corpus helmet on it,another example of these shoulder armors would be the lich shoulder armor they get that has the helmet of the warframe that started its cycle.    Since  the helminth likes kavats,a special kavat skin as a reward for feeding the helminth a lot of different frames would be cool too.

[KlaussKlauss]

Being MR23 and not a very long time player I must say most resource requirement are okish, except Railjack resources and generally Bile resources. Those are insane. Not surprizing people are proposing to feed it plat or real life human organs. 

It is nice that DE improved the Standing system or Deimos. I find the token system excellent. I even liked the Conservation (which I strongly neglected on Fortuna).

This being said it is nice that NPCs on Deimos don't swindle you by allowing you to trade resources for Standing when you already hit your limit. PoE/Fortuna and other syndicates (Simaris is a crook) happily take your medallions/insignia/etc and give you 0 Standing (irl I would sue Simaris and take all his servers where he hides his low grade consciousness). On Deimos this was fixed to lower frustration which is great. But the same issue now arises with Helminth System, it takes chunks of resources that would give 50% progression even if you needed 5%, and it's all gone. Are we supposed to play the game with a wiki table and a calculator or just get punished/swindled? Why were discrete quanta to percentage mappings preferred to a simple liniar relationship between unit of that resource and percentage? You know, like when you hold mouse click on Focus investment and it fills it up gradually.

I understand that if you want a gum you have to buy a pack (100%). In games, that isn't really necessary because it's all make-believe resources. But this system is like: "I want to buy 1 gum. You can't buy one gum, you have to reach 100% gum possession. Ok, one pack then? Hell no, 100% is like 1,3(9) packs, so that will be the price of 2 packs please and after you can have your 1 gum pice."    

[MarikBentusi]

I dipped my toes into the Helminth system with 1 subsumed Warframe and a second on its way.

I love the system so far! It's been very fun to try out some new combos (Gauss with Infested Speed running across PoE) and use abilities I usually neglect on other frames (Ember Fireblast's armor strip is so handy on certain frames! And it strips more armor (75%) than I expected (50%) based on the Helminth Workshop mentioning nothing about it getting a touchup. Even the Infusion screen lists it as 50-100%, as opposed to the Arsenal).

The Railjack resource costs seem very steep, but I assumed those numbers are meant for some distant future where we'll have played RJ an absolute ton, similar to how we've ended up with so many maingame resources that we can feed Helminth loads of those.

Here's some stuff I'd love to see improved/added:

Add/Remove Cyst Function

I'm one of the few people who use Helminth Cysts for fashionframe. I'm really happy we can use Helminth with the cyst! But I'm a bit afraid to misclick and use the chair to permanently destroy the Cyst instead of accessing the Infusion system. Would it be possible to instead have a "Add/Remove Helminth Cyst" function added to your Infusion catalog for example?

This would also make accessing the chair snappier for Cyst users.

Echoes of Umbra Revisit

I'd love to see that concept revisited under the Helminth banner since most people liked the idea but took issue with the execution (infinite Somatic Fiber grind that's not even necessary to push for now that Apollo's Axi droptable makes it a very evergreen node).

Maybe Echoes of Umbra could be a high level Metamorphosis unlock? Maybe Somatic Fibers could be moved to a new Secretion category used for infusing Echoes of Umbra and letting people add/remove the extra function at will? Maybe it would be something that replaces your Frame's Passive rather than add to it (tho personally I'd prefer the latter of course)? Maybe it could be temporary on regular frames and permanent on frames with an Umbra polarity? Maybe on a frame with 3 Umbra polarities it would let the autonomous frame use abilities Specter-style?

 I would absolutely love it if the idea could be revisited, I love the flavor of fighting alongside your frame.

--

Again, really like the Helminth system so far! Lots of fun stuff I want to try out. Nice job!

[Shinyah]

Globally I love this new system but there are 2 things that are ruining it for me :

- Feeding part : The cost of some resources (specially RJ related) and the lack of choices in the Bile section

- Infusion part  : You (DE) want us to experiment a lot with these new possibilities of Infusion but to be fair, I can't do it ; it's really too expensive in resources per infusion.

As an "experienced" MR29 player with a decent weekly playtime and under sometimes a Resource Booster, I can't afford to experiment with Infusions.
I can't imagine the struggle for a regular player.

NB : It would be great to put a very generous ratio to RJ resources in order to give a new reason to farm RJ missions on a daily/weekly basis.

[Klokwerkaos]

I'm not 100% positive but I Feel like warcry has an artificial cap to attack speed.

When using it on my build with all three umbral mods (ie maxed set bonus umbral intensify), it Feels no speedier than using berserk+arcane strike.  It ramps up Faster with the casting, but it does nothing beyond that besides additional armor.

I know the cap isn't normal because I can go much Faster when say, using a volt+ wisp buff without using warcry.

If this is accurate this makes this ability a non-choice because it's irrellavent and objectively worse than the arcanes/mods since they don't cost energy and don't get affected by nullifier bubbles, so I might as well just take the straight armor buff From wukong if that's what I'm after, which I'm not.

Please check this and either acknowledge this is the intention, or confirm it's' not working as intended, or that a max rank umbral intensify with full set bonus does basically nothing for this ability and it's a non choice ability by design.  If it's the latter, there's basically no point to using it at all, you'd be better off using parkour speed buff from helminth which is a basic ability that requires no sacrifice, which is very underwhelming.

[Exelcto]

Regarding bile low resource pool- just throw there all of the fish parts we can drop on PoE, Fortuna and HoD. 
Also add somewhere all of the ores, breaths of eidolon etc. Let me make use of them 😞

[Zrima]

Same as others, I just come here to ask you to kindly lower Railjack consumption costs for the helmith. They are really expensive, and more than often you're stuck with them as the helminth won't eat anything else. Bile is the worst offender by far, of course.

[.-KG-..-JaJeKa-.]

I didnt read the whole Release thread (that was my big mistake) and thought the helmith is rdy to use. i walked to the seat and pressed to fast and then my zyst was gone and es far as i know it can not grow again. why hasn't DE placed an "yes i want" like the stuff i can do with the kuva weapons here...

[SevenMothers]

Ok. No. just no!

I am currently building the Helminth system but while I wait I passed by the door with my main and it didnt open. 

It did open for a warframe that is currently sporting a hairy-follicle infection-zit that hasnt been popped.

 

so,  two things:

1. does this mean that warframes that were innoculated cannot access the Helminth system?  if it does, an option needs to be introduced to reverse the innoculation or the new Helminth system uses some form of gray strain infection that the warframe is not immune to.  Otherwise I'm going to need to re-build my main from new parts that can get infected.

 

2. Do warframes that are to be subsumed need to be able to walk in to the room? so do they need to be infected? 

 

I havent any feedback on the costs yet of subsuming or abilities.

Costs to build and requirements to unlock are fine imho. so, it takes some following a storyline. no harm.  players always have the choice not to take up the new system if they dont want to.