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Heart of Deimos: Xaku Feedback Megathread


SilverBones

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I really don't understand why Xaku's 3rd ability has three sub-abilities. For what purpose? Why make players cycle through Accuse and Deny, just to get to Gaze - or vice versa. It works for Ivara and Wisp, but its implementation here on Xaku just makes him feel clunky when playing him. I don't like this.

Deny should be apart of Xaku's one - Xata's Whisper. It's usefulness here in The Lost is non existent, and buffing it to make it useful is redundant because the ability is fundamentally under-powered for the power level of a 3. The damage is mediocre, and the CC is not realistically useful in gameplay considering that I could just CC with Accuse instead. 

Accuse is an effective CC ability. It helps Xaku survive, which is something he needs a lot of help with. The problem I run into with this ability is that again, I have to cycle between other abilities to even have the privilege to cast this. The accessibility of this ability is problematic, which also applies to Gaze.

If we establish that the core problem with The Lost is how inaccessible abilities can feel at times due to having to cycle between abilities you don't want to cast - I would like to offer a solution to think about.

REMOVE Deny from Xaku's 3rd - implement this into Xata's Whisper (Xaku's 1). Deny now becomes apart of Xaku's 1 - hold functionality - hold to cast the void beam. The ability still exists within Xaku's kit, however, it removes clutter from The Lost. I think this is pretty reasonable - something to think about.

Accuse and Gaze now are the only abilities that would exist in that 3rd ability space. This would free up space for some much needed buffs. However, I would just go the extra mile and combine Accuse and Gaze.

Here's what I mean: Gaze functions as it does now - though Accuse becomes apart of the Gaze aura. Enemies enter the Aura and become confused - the ability functions as it normally does. If enemies LEAVE the Aura - Accuse is applied to these enemies as a lingering debuff. In other words, enemies retain the Accuse debuff for X amount of time (not affected by Xaku's 4).

This would make Xaku less clunky to play, plus it would add some much needed utility to his 1. His 2 could use a tiny bump in target range (+25% base) - but I don't really think it's necessary. His 4 is another ability that could get looked at too - dodge chance (ahem RNG) as a form of survivability just doesn't feel good in gameplay. Some deaths feel out of your control.

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Ive done Steel Path survival with only using the stolen guns from 2 ability at ~200% strength - it certainly does more than enough damage and the armor strip from 3rd makes it work on grineers too.

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Not like its anything outstanding compared to some other frames and weapons that just faceroll Steel Path, but it proves that its strong enough.

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Quick note which might be known already: You can work around Grasp of Lohk's guns targeting enemies trapped by Gaze by brainwashing them with Accuse before Gazing them, as Accused enemies are not targeted by the guns. It's still a pretty severe design flaw with the ability that will hopefully be addressed (having to use an ability only on targets affected by a different, also quite expensive, non-recastable ability to avoid it interfering with a third ability which itself needs the first ability to function properly is pretty awful and not what I'd call a solution) but it will hopefully improve the Xaku ExperienceTM for some people, particularly those struggling to make an impact with Grasp of Lohk.

Not really feedback (beyond "please fix the interaction thats already been brought up 500 times"), but it might make someone's day marginally nicer.

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Alright so I've made some comments here and there and there seems to be a mutual feeling and direction for Xaku's concept so far.

1. The Vast Untime sheds plating armor and the basic entity to a skeleton for evasive bonus. I feel that it should also reduce life and shields by 75% and grant 75% movement speed instead of the current low amount of speed bonus that it does currently (feels like 20%). In relation to AoE damage and the new reduced EHP, I think it's fair to grant immunity to AoE and statuses of them (such as knockdowns, but not all kinds, such as being shield bashed, as that is quite hilarious to watch happen to allied Xaku's).

Why 1? I am proposing this "balance" as it is mostly a nerf, but a slight buff in that aoe based enemies would be ineffective and provide a frame that can deal with those enemies outside of CC by being immune to them (the first and possibly only frame capable of this). However, to clarify, the immunity to AoE would only be while the 4 is active, with the plates shed, and not permanently.

2. Deny.... This beam easily gets outperformed by Xaku's 2 quite fast in survival. I will still stand by the consideration that it could be a oneshot tool for tank enemies. Even if it did oneshot anything, the energy cost is still too high to be worth it, and making it "fun" requires a build centered around it and only it since Xata's Whisper still doesn't interact with Xaku's other abilities... (hint). Instead of having the 2 increase the damage based on weapon count, have the beam oneshot anything that isn't a unique enemy, and do lowered % damage against such enemies, then the energy cost would be justifiable. In its' current state without any scaling or even a mod menu as an exalted weapon even, I wouldn't use it unless it had 10 base energy cost and could be spammed as fast as I could press the button (that is how useless it feels to me). Either have it oneshot with the current cost or make it near instant cast, with a modding section, and have it 25 energy cost. Khora's 1 would still be better because of the AoE, so I don't see any concern to be had and this is a "fun-ness proposal).

Why 2? Deny is sad, really sad. Whatever the path taken to make this a usable ability as far as most players are concerned, my preference would be the exalted form. As great as oneshots would be, having a slow beam with high cost just doesn't feel very interactive and fun compared to a rapid fire, laser beam, exalted style. Also reduce the base damage to like 1000 (similar to opticor) if it does get scaling, as the current base would be very high. Being able to mod it in relation to void damage would be interesting.

3. Gaze is always going to have requests for more range inevitably till it is the entire map. From playing, I feel that perhaps it would be better to have it a set range approximately 20-30m that isn't affected by range mods.

Why 3? Why a set range one might ask? Well the answer to that is because it is based from the enemy, similar to Nova's Antimatter Drop not being range affected because it is a specific radius orb. This would be a specific radius enemy and range would only dictate how close to cast on the enemy. This would also allow for it to be used outside of only with Grasp of Lohk with a max range build.

4. The Vast Untime again... Instead of slowing enemies, couldn't this frame be the first to (with increasing ability strength) increase enemy movement speed, as it relates to time, and reduce their damage by half (it would be slowing projectiles and energy expansion itself) while also making all (including allied) projectiles slower without the damage loss (hitscan wouldn't be affected as usual). I think this aura of untime is a fun theme, a slow-like (feeling) motion, to fall and jump half as slow, parkour and jump half as slow with double the distance. Movement would be as if gliding slightly where speed would be the same but the animation of movement would be half as fast and feel warped with perfect friction (a quality people love about wisp as a hover).

Why 4? Well it turns out I really love the concept of time in the void and warframe. I think an aura instead of pulse just makes the playstyle more interactive and interesting. It also opens up the opportunity for the aura of untime I listed to go along with the duration pausing theme of untime. I really like that concept and wonder how a slow-motion in real time frame would feel. 

5. Accuse is fine.

Why 5? Accuse is absolutely perfect for an ability of distraction, I don't intend to make them do damage with Xaku so why bother complaining about how bad minions are, that should be reserved for Nekros, Revenant, Nyx, Titania, Inaros, and Atlas rework discussions (also explains why those frames aren't used outside of loot, tank, utility, or frame damage) but I digress.

6. Grasp of Lohk. Similar to Gaze, being unaffected by range would be a way to balance the "interactivity and style". With an aura of untime from the 4, range would still be a central key to the frame if this ability had its' targeting range at a set value of 15 and grab range staying modified by range mods.

Why 6? I chose 15m targeting range specifically because most builds either use 175, 235, 250, 265, or 280 ability range for 12-22m. This would be a decent midpoint that would limit the high and low end of that spectrum of possibilities. The main reason is also due to the "object having a set range" consideration, the weapons themselves are objects and wouldn't be affected by range mods and be set a constant. However, without the aura of untime change, Xaku would most likely end up seeing low range amounts for builds (which isn't horrible) but I would think it more balanced if the 4 was an aura since it is a duration ability as well (why waste duration to recast just to apply effects to enemies).

7. The Passive. Since the untime and evasive theme make sense with the 4 as an ability, the passive doesn't quite make much sense and doesn't do anything while the 4 is active. A lot of people have talked about this and I wonder if it might just be better to take another look at the community concepts again or create a different passive. If I were to choose one for thought purposes in relation to the theme, I always have ideas, it would be.... Void Lapse: every other shot from a weapon lapses in time and is returned to the magazine.

Why 7? The passive doesn't have to be worthless or essential to a frame, it just needs to be unique if a frame is sitting inside a nullifier bubble and all it has for uniqueness from other frames is its' passive. I think that stands out. This does also question if Chroma should have an extra passive by that logic.

8. Xata's Whisper. Thought I missed this by skipping to the passive? How could I skip on giving my advice for the ability I came up with and was chosen to be in the game I love? This ability really needs to apply some synergy to some other ability, maybe make accused enemies apply void procs guaranteed to enemies while it is active on Xaku? Honestly, forcing the status proc and having it as an extra damage instance goes a long way to make it a competitive buffing ability to the mid tier ones. If Roar is going to be 50%, and be a damage buffing ability, why not also make this 50%. This doesn't affect abilities, status effects, and is a different damage type, three reasons it still wouldn't compete at the same percent as Roar, but is a step in the right directly to not being Xaku's well-known, "worst ability in the kit by far" ~ seriously, I keep hearing this. Why can't it be made mid tier even, I'm not asking for it to be the best.

Anyways, The nerf in the beginning to overall ehp really does make this frame the weakest in existence outside of the evasion. I think with that being understood, having the power it would with these changes makes it an interesting stylistic choice for those that like to live on the edge and enjoy warping reality and time.

Edit: Mirage's eclipse costs 25 energy and does not apply to allies giving merit to increase the buff over Roar, it is a 200% buff. Roar does apply to allies at 75 energy for a 50% buff, 1/4th of Eclipse. Xata's Whisper costs 25 energy, does not apply to allies, does not buff raw damage and adds an extra element type, and is 26%. Not being able to buff allies should put it equal with Eclipse, and not buffing Raw damage for DoT capability, it should be stronger than Eclipse. This means in total, that Xata's Whisper is 1/9th to 1/10th the effectivity it should be, making it the worst balanced ability in all of warframe. Compare any other ability in the game by comparable means and the only thing that comes close is Decoy vs Mallet. Decoy isn't invulnerable, Decoy doesn't Reflect Damage, Decoy doesn't store damage to reflect in a battery. By doubling effectivity, 2x to 4x to 8x, Mallet is 8x better than Decoy. (or infinite depending on how you consider the ability to infinitely scale damage and draw fire infinitely (because invulnerable) infinitely better than a Decoy that has a health bar and does not do infinitely scaling damage. It is actually sad I compared Xata's Whisper and Eclipse in that grouping.

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5 hours ago, Velitria said:

Alright so I've made some comments here and there and there seems to be a mutual feeling and direction for Xaku's concept so far.

1. The Vast Untime sheds plating armor and the basic entity to a skeleton for evasive bonus. I feel that it should also reduce life and shields by 75% and grant 75% movement speed instead of the current low amount of speed bonus that it does currently (feels like 20%). In relation to AoE damage and the new reduced EHP, I think it's fair to grant immunity to AoE and statuses of them (such as knockdowns, but not all kinds, such as being shield bashed, as that 

Absolutely not. Xaku already has awful survivability. There is zero excuse to giving her even less health.

Status immunity literally means nothing if she always dies in one hit.

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@Velitria 

I see we are like minded. I like it.

6 hours ago, Velitria said:

1. The Vast Untime sheds plating armor and the basic entity to a skeleton for evasive bonus. I feel that it should also reduce life and shields by 75% and grant 75% movement speed instead of the current low amount of speed bonus that it does currently (feels like 20%). In relation to AoE damage and the new reduced EHP, I think it's fair to grant immunity to AoE and statuses of them (such as knockdowns, but not all kinds, such as being shield bashed, as that is quite hilarious to watch happen to allied Xaku's).

Why 1? I am proposing this "balance" as it is mostly a nerf, but a slight buff in that aoe based enemies would be ineffective and provide a frame that can deal with those enemies outside of CC by being immune to them (the first and possibly only frame capable of this). However, to clarify, the immunity to AoE would only be while the 4 is active, with the plates shed, and not permanently.

Yes! I'm not only one that see speed buff low! I'm not sure about -75% to health but overall suggestion sounds great. Something from 25% to 50% debuff from health might be ok (need to be tested). If they are immune to status then they don't need to worry about damage to health so much. We can disarm with 2nd ability or proc with 1st.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Absolutely not. Xaku already has awful survivability. There is zero excuse to giving her even less health.

With void proc & disarming nothing can shoot him. Only procs (like toxin) could kill them.

6 hours ago, Velitria said:

2. Deny.... This beam easily gets outperformed by Xaku's 2 quite fast in survival.

Why both skills need to deal damage? Let guns deals damage and Deny lift enemies (making easier to get headshot) + maybe some proc.

6 hours ago, Velitria said:

Why 4? Well it turns out I really love the concept of time in the void and warframe. I think an aura instead of pulse just makes the playstyle more interactive and interesting. It also opens up the opportunity for the aura of untime I listed to go along with the duration pausing theme of untime. I really like that concept and wonder how a slow-motion in real time frame would feel. 

+1 for aura. Blast is not good, and it almost instantly disapear (and have other problems)

6 hours ago, Velitria said:

The Vast Untime again... Instead of slowing enemies, couldn't this frame be the first to (with increasing ability strength) increase enemy movement speed, as it relates to time, and reduce their damage by half (it would be slowing projectiles and energy expansion itself) while also making all (including allied) projectiles slower without the damage loss (hitscan wouldn't be affected as usual).

So melee enemies would be dangerous... interesting.
I would prefer normal (aura) enemies slowness at 50%, modified by strength. Your suggestion might work... maybe.

 

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2 hours ago, quxier said:

@Velitria 

I see we are like minded. I like it.

Yes! I'm not only one that see speed buff low! I'm not sure about -75% to health but overall suggestion sounds great. Something from 25% to 50% debuff from health might be ok (need to be tested). If they are immune to status then they don't need to worry about damage to health so much. We can disarm with 2nd ability or proc with 1st.

With void proc & disarming nothing can shoot him. Only procs (like toxin) could kill them.

Why both skills need to deal damage? Let guns deals damage and Deny lift enemies (making easier to get headshot) + maybe some proc.

+1 for aura. Blast is not good, and it almost instantly disapear (and have other problems)

So melee enemies would be dangerous... interesting.
I would prefer normal (aura) enemies slowness at 50%, modified by strength. Your suggestion might work... maybe.

 

Wait, do void bubbles stop enemy bullets as well. Because if so that would mean Xaku would benefit greatly if Grasp of Lohks guns had a status chance.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Wait, do void bubbles stop enemy bullets as well. Because if so that would mean Xaku would benefit greatly if Grasp of Lohks guns had a status chance.

Yes, enemy cannot shoot you while on the void proc. I don't remember but it could still use some "non bullet" weapons (e.g. flamethrower).
It will spread more void status so no bullet can touch you*.
However as for now you (almost) cannot headshot so you getting "less damage". They will change it to "shoot where you proced", e.g. if you shoot at head and an enemy get void proc, then bullets would go to their head. However given AI this wouldn't change too much (you would still hit not-head).
If it's your thing then it will be beneficial. I like disarming&void-procing enemies but I think it would make a gameplay less active. Lots of people here want more damage instead of void proc... so for them it would be detrimental.

* I don't remember if it was bug & fixed but if you were inside void bubble you would get damaged.
 

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Alright so I have something to note about the style of Xaku and why I want a buff to a different area than typical and a somewhat needed nerf to another.

Xaku's playstyle revolves around Grasp of Lohk... It is the undisputed best way to deal with infinite level enemies with the kit. However, I like my weapons and would prefer to use the less optimal version without the 2.

My proposition is to massively buff Xata's whisper (~75% base) to compete with mirage chroma and rhino as it is considered a damage buffing ability.

The Vast Untime being an aura that gives speed to enemies, yourself, and allies by 30% base, a constant AoE like Equinox. 

Though for a gun playstyle, speed and damage isn't all that matters, it is missing something... What if Deny were to give a weapon buff and drain an enemy of life when used, a oneshot kill, it is very expensive and the base stats already suggest it should oneshot anything that isn't a boss, perhaps have it not work on them. The buff would be a decent duration as the ability is very expensive once again and would perhaps give one or two of the following: ammo efficiency, firerate, reload speed, accuracy, % damage explosion kills, inflict a random status effect, adapt to defenses, kill below 25% health threshold, energy on kill, shields on kill, health on kill, the previous 3 on hit instead of kill, stun on hit... However, to make this a gun over melee style, it would have to either only apply to guns or be something that is only relevant to guns. This style is because after extensively playing with Xaku, I found there to really only be one way to play and the defense stripping is something for weapons, but there isn't a reason not to use the 2 if the 3 is built for. Evasive style is nice, but I just want there to be some incentive to use something other than the 2. The 1 accomplished that miserably with it's current stats, even with a buff to void status. The 2 would be better suited to compete with weapons if it was nerfed into being % damage. Why is that worse you may ask? Well, I think that if they ignored armor and shields, having a set 33% or 50% life drain per attack and didn't scale with power strength, being a 2 or 3 shot kill would definitely be worse than what it currently is. Gaze would synergize with weapons and do nothing for Grasp of Lohk. Deny and Xata's Whisper would buff weapons. Accuse would be a decent distraction utility. The Vast Untime would also be decent in general, and speeding enemies up is something very nice to have in combination with Accuse.

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On 2020-10-01 at 4:30 PM, quxier said:

Yes, enemy cannot shoot you while on the void proc. I don't remember but it could still use some "non bullet" weapons (e.g. flamethrower).
It will spread more void status so no bullet can touch you*.
However as for now you (almost) cannot headshot so you getting "less damage". They will change it to "shoot where you proced", e.g. if you shoot at head and an enemy get void proc, then bullets would go to their head. However given AI this wouldn't change too much (you would still hit not-head).
If it's your thing then it will be beneficial. I like disarming&void-procing enemies but I think it would make a gameplay less active. Lots of people here want more damage instead of void proc... so for them it would be detrimental.

* I don't remember if it was bug & fixed but if you were inside void bubble you would get damaged.
 

Hm, I’m gonna retract my statement about giving Grasp a status chance as well. Defeats the whole purpose of the bubbles being able to be applied to specific body parts if we just have an ability that’s going to continuously apply it to the torso.

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Alright so this is after the round two of xaku changes and here are some ideas on how to improve Xaku:

Passive: It’s passive will have enemies go into a “voided” state. When enemies are “voided” a state that enemies are in when they have either taken damage or have been affected by xaku’s abilities and survived. What this does is it will essentially “decay” their damage output meaning that slowly over time when they become voided their damage slowly gets reduced over time. Not only that but this voided state also affects xaku’s abilities where if dealing damage against voided enemies They deal extra damage and when do less damage when attacking xaku.

Xata’s Whisper: I thought of making this ability something similar to equinox where depending on what mode the warframe is on, the ability changes. Essentially all I have decided to change is that xaku when in his “armored” form or before casting the vast untime The ability instead imbues xaku itself with void energy and instead of dealing void damage it is similar to rhino’s iron skin where it reduces the amount of damage taken. As for voided enemies they deal even less damage when you have this defensive version of Xata’s whisper active. And for the original function of this ability it will simply do more damage towards voided enemies. Thus encouraging you to use it’s other Abilites to void enemies.

Grasp of Lohk: I haven’t decided much on what to change other than any enemies that have their weapons taken and therefore are affected by it, they become voided. Another thing is that when activated it slowly sucks in voided enemies that are out of range from having their weapons stolen to make up for its  poor range before the changes. 
 

The Lost:There isn’t much I decided to change other than enemies that are affected and/or damaged by gaze, accuse, and deny will become voided. Something else I might add is to make deny possibly a duration ability where it automatically casts its beam after casting and you can move around while active and can simply recast to end it.

The Vast Untime: This Ability is what will affect whether Xata’s whisper will be a defensive or offensive ability. What I had in mind for this is that it’s skeletal form could act as sort of like a glass cannon where it focuses purely on damage output and its default form focusing on tanking damage. So the original Xata’s whisper can be activated when in the skeletal form and the damage reducing part when in its default form. As for the damage reduction in the skeleton form I decided to do the opposite and the remove the 75% damage reduction to put it on the default form in exchange for perhaps double the damage and a 50% increase in ability range(these stats can be changed) in its skeletal form.  When you cast it, it releases an explosion of its armored body parts so I thought to maybe add a secondary wave of void energy at half the range and can pass through walls. This void wave will garuntee knockdown and will void affected enemies while also dealing some damage . Something I would like to have added maybe as a future augment mod is that it’s outer armor bits can instead of lying around is have them circle around xaku dealing constant damage  meaning any enemies near enough will get attacked by the flying armored bits.

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First I would like to apologize for my bad and poor english. I'm french so I will try to do my best to be understandable.


Someone can explain me the will of a lot of tenno to change Xaku to a "god frame" instead of to conserve the well equilibration of this frame ? I don't understand

Most of people seems to forget the context of this frame and complains about the high stat values necessary to exploit Xaku's abilities. Xaku is the frame of the Void, obtained on Deimos (ex- Orokin derelict). It is expected that Xaku's skill are not really good without corrupted mods (by extension Xaku's skills need high stat value to be good/excellent) . For me this is in the concept of this warframe.

This context is in adequation with skill panel of Xaku. This frame gather a lot of the most powerfull effects in game : scalable damage, total shield/armor reduction, mind control, total freeze, magnetization, levitation of foe, disarmament, auto-targeting on 360°. And all of that with an exceptionnal duration thanks to Vast Untime. It's obvious that we can't exploit all of these effects at their maximum at the same time.

This is because of that, which I don't understand (and don't approve) the three most of recurrent proposals :

Increase the targeting range of Grasp of Lohk : with only 2 mod of range you have 235% range of ability => 19m of auto-targeting at 360° on dozens of seconds with scalable damages (and yes you need to compensate the power loss but remember this is the concept of a Void/Corrupted frame) . It's already very powerfull. That would become absurdly overpowered with 30m or 40m of targeting range. With that we could clean all rooms in some seconds no matter the level. It would be too strong for a skill 2 with an energy cost of 50.

Increase the base value of defense reduction of Gaze to approach the same value as Shuriken or Psychic bolts to obtain 100% of reduction with around 150% of power of ability... No. Just no. You can't compare armor reduction skills with projectiles (so limited targets) and with low base duration to a armor reduction skill with an area (so unlimited targets) and with good base duration. Gaze is really, really better. That is normal to need more investment to have 100% of defense reduction.

Increase the slow of Vast Untime to 50% : I don't totally disagree with that proposal. 400% of power for 100% slow is not exploitable, too much sacrifices to have this value. The slow value need a up but 50% is too high. Freezing is the most powerfull control in Warframe. That's simple : no move = no damage. You can easily obtain 200% of power without big sacrifice in the others stats and with a base of 25 s and 25m without LoS this skill would become ridiscously strong. With this stats : 200% power/190% range/100%efficency/130% duration (no sacrifice to have that) we have a freeze in a radius of 47.5m without LoS for 32.5s beside of all others bonus from Vast Untime (evasion, move speed, Void vulnerability, duration pause for others skills). You even can exploit Gaze with the 200% of power. No definitely that is too strong. To compare, Avalanche from Frost have native freeze effect for a cost of 100 but for a base duration of 8s (max duration = 24s but -66% for range) and a base radius of 15m (max range = 43.5m but -60% for power). An increase to 35% or 40% seems me more reasonable. We would need to up power between 250% (for 40% slow) and 286% (for 35% slow) which involve less sacrificies that currently.

 

For me Xaku only need :

- A little up of slow value to 35% or 40% (like said above)

- An increase of speed cast for Grasp of Lohk and The Losts

- A change of torso targeting from Void status (why this is not head-targeting like all other magnetization effect)

- Stackable weapons to the limit on Grasp of Lohk recast (but this is already planned)

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6 hours ago, Khalial said:

With this stats : 200% power/190% range/100%efficency/130% duration

What mods are you using to get this? I may be wrong but you either put 3 mods for range or the Overextend and another few mods for power.
I'm yet to forma it because I'm afraid of changes (I've just used one forma on them).

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Grasp of Lohk when built for high range has guns floating underneath the floor and since these guns have no line of sight of any enemy, they are pretty much …useless.

If I build my Xaku for 250% range, that is about 15 guns and out of these 15 guns, 3 or 4 of them are underneath the floor and they don't fire at anything whatsoever. 

I tested this in simulacrum as well and the floor guns don't seem to be firing even though enemies were within firing range. Four guns being inactive is quite a bit of DPS loss and with the proposed max gun count on recast change, this becomes a lot more noticeable. If possible can we have the guns stacked a bit closer together than go all the way up and down like a Christmas tree. This would prevent the guns from being clipper through the floor and losing line of sight of enemies.

MaBsCK1.png

The number of guns underneath the floor also varies with terrain. Please look into this before releasing Round 2 changes.

Also it would be nice to have The Vast Untime's evasion buffed to 85%.

Thanks~

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Some quick ideas for Xaku, hopefully soon enough before changes, or at least for round 3 (there will be round three, right?)

1. It would be nice if VA had a status cleanse on activation. Would be thematic and stop Xaku from perishing to a slash proc. If we're feeling saucy, maybe even a very brief invulnerable period?

2.  Give VA a way to re-apply the slow/debuff effect. Maybe a pulse every 1/4 of the total duration? Even with massive range, LOS restrictions/new spawns make the vulnerability/slow a very, very, VERY minor portion of the ability. 

3. A toggle of sorts to change gun models. Using stuff like the Trumna leads to the left-side being rather obscuring. Maybe default to the orbs when disarming MOAs?

4. Some sort of advantage to being in Whole form. VA is good, but it gets a bit boring constantly having to apply it over and over, seeing as you are actively gimping yourself otherwise (not to mention expensive). Why not give Xaku more armor a la Chroma in Whole form? Would diversify armor/Rage builds and encourage jumping between forms, as well as thematically making sense. 

5. Add a mechanic to Grasp of Lohk that if you Hold, it dispels the guns. There are times I want to get rid of my guns (rare, but it happens) without just letting the timer run out (like trying to use Blood Altar on an enemy but the guns kill them as I fly in, at the hyper-speed of the ability cast, mind you).

6. Giving sub-abilities of The Lost different energy costs. Gaze/Accuse are large something you set for a while/large AOEs that both get frozen timers, 75 energy is fair. Deny though, doesn't have the damage to be worth the 75 energy most of the time (yes, it can kill level 120-ish SP Grineer with a minimum of eight guns, but won't OHKO heavies or higher levels). Either lower the cost or add a tiny-scaling by enemy level to it (it scales off guns; maybe scale of the "level" of the guns, i.e. the level of the enemy you stole from? The range/speed/animation changes in round 2 will be super-welcome.

7. Change the Nidus-Parasitic Link visual on Xata's Whisper. Do I even have to explain this? 

 

Overall, loving the frame, been using 95% exclusively them since I picked them up one week after release. You can go full caster or be fully interactive with your weapons while using abilities to protect yourself. Mostly minor tweaks needed, most of which are in round two. Still, polishing is needed.

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Il y a 14 heures, quxier a dit :

What mods are you using to get this? I may be wrong but you either put 3 mods for range or the Overextend and another few mods for power.
I'm yet to forma it because I'm afraid of changes (I've just used one forma on them).

For Forma it's allways usefull to have one of each classic polarity (--, V, D).  Personnaly I added 3 formas. Two formas to add -- & V polarity and one forma to replace one of D to V polarity. But I understand that you don't want to use forma before the last changes ;) (Even if I think which the big changes are passed, just some adjustment are necessary now).

For a build based on VU with 50% of slow I would use :

Intensity Umbra (or Blind Rage (rank 4) to have exactly 200% of power if 199% is not enough for Gaze by example) /Transent fortitude/Primed Continuity/Stretch/Augur Reach/Cunning Drift (Exilus). After that you have 3 "classic" mods and 1 Aura which you can choice has you want for more energy/more efficiency/more survivability/etc... With my config I would add Corrosive Projection,  Primed Flow (rank 8), Streamline (rank 3) (or max rank If I use Blind Rage (rank 4) ) and Carnis Carapace (I love to play with Carnis set and Sly Vulpa to maximize Xaku's evasion and to have a status immunity).

 

You can also replace Streamline by Fleeting Expertise (rank 3-4) if you prefer to have more efficiency in counterpart to less duration.

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On 2020-10-06 at 5:29 AM, Khalial said:

First I would like to apologize for my bad and poor english. I'm french so I will try to do my best to be understandable.


Someone can explain me the will of a lot of tenno to change Xaku to a "god frame" instead of to conserve the well equilibration of this frame ? I don't understand

Most of people seems to forget the context of this frame and complains about the high stat values necessary to exploit Xaku's abilities. Xaku is the frame of the Void, obtained on Deimos (ex- Orokin derelict). It is expected that Xaku's skill are not really good without corrupted mods (by extension Xaku's skills need high stat value to be good/excellent) . For me this is in the concept of this warframe.

This context is in adequation with skill panel of Xaku. This frame gather a lot of the most powerfull effects in game : scalable damage, total shield/armor reduction, mind control, total freeze, magnetization, levitation of foe, disarmament, auto-targeting on 360°. And all of that with an exceptionnal duration thanks to Vast Untime. It's obvious that we can't exploit all of these effects at their maximum at the same time.

This is because of that, which I don't understand (and don't approve) the three most of recurrent proposals :

Increase the targeting range of Grasp of Lohk : with only 2 mod of range you have 235% range of ability => 19m of auto-targeting at 360° on dozens of seconds with scalable damages (and yes you need to compensate the power loss but remember this is the concept of a Void/Corrupted frame) . It's already very powerfull. That would become absurdly overpowered with 30m or 40m of targeting range. With that we could clean all rooms in some seconds no matter the level. It would be too strong for a skill 2 with an energy cost of 50.

Increase the base value of defense reduction of Gaze to approach the same value as Shuriken or Psychic bolts to obtain 100% of reduction with around 150% of power of ability... No. Just no. You can't compare armor reduction skills with projectiles (so limited targets) and with low base duration to a armor reduction skill with an area (so unlimited targets) and with good base duration. Gaze is really, really better. That is normal to need more investment to have 100% of defense reduction.

Increase the slow of Vast Untime to 50% : I don't totally disagree with that proposal. 400% of power for 100% slow is not exploitable, too much sacrifices to have this value. The slow value need a up but 50% is too high. Freezing is the most powerfull control in Warframe. That's simple : no move = no damage. You can easily obtain 200% of power without big sacrifice in the others stats and with a base of 25 s and 25m without LoS this skill would become ridiscously strong. With this stats : 200% power/190% range/100%efficency/130% duration (no sacrifice to have that) we have a freeze in a radius of 47.5m without LoS for 32.5s beside of all others bonus from Vast Untime (evasion, move speed, Void vulnerability, duration pause for others skills). You even can exploit Gaze with the 200% of power. No definitely that is too strong. To compare, Avalanche from Frost have native freeze effect for a cost of 100 but for a base duration of 8s (max duration = 24s but -66% for range) and a base radius of 15m (max range = 43.5m but -60% for power). An increase to 35% or 40% seems me more reasonable. We would need to up power between 250% (for 40% slow) and 286% (for 35% slow) which involve less sacrificies that currently.

 

For me Xaku only need :

- A little up of slow value to 35% or 40% (like said above)

- An increase of speed cast for Grasp of Lohk and The Losts

- A change of torso targeting from Void status (why this is not head-targeting like all other magnetization effect)

- Stackable weapons to the limit on Grasp of Lohk recast (but this is already planned)

A frames theme should never justify absurd modding requirements.

People don’t want Xaku to be OP. They want her to be good. The problem is we appear to have to wrestle with DE over what is defined as “good”.

 

You’re argument that Everything Xaku can do isn’t meant to be done all at once doesn’t hold up because Xaku needs to do everything she does in order to be a “functional” Warframe. I put the functional it quotations because even when using everything Xaku still falls short in terms of performance.

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Le 07/10/2020 à 19:23, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

A frames theme should never justify absurd modding requirements.

A frame theme can justify a modding requirement. The fact that you find this absurb is only your point of view, not an absolute truth. For me, Xaku's modding is not absurb but particular and I love it ! I would have found extremely borring to have an umpteenth new Warframe able to do all content with a simple ultra-standard equilibrated modding

 

Le 07/10/2020 à 19:23, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

People don’t want Xaku to be OP. They want her to be good. The problem is we appear to have to wrestle with DE over what is defined as “good”.

For me, Xaku is a very good warframe because I can do almost all content with it in solo even if it's not always simple. 

So I'm curious, what is your definition of a "good" Warframe ?

 

Le 07/10/2020 à 19:23, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

You’re argument that Everything Xaku can do isn’t meant to be done all at once doesn’t hold up because Xaku needs to do everything she does in order to be a “functional” Warframe. I put the functional it quotations because even when using everything Xaku still falls short in terms of performance.

"Functionnal warframe", "still falls short in terms of performance".... For what ? Compared to what ? What context ? Be more precise if you want a real discussion and argumentation.

 

In a previous post you judge Xaku's survivability is awful. OK. Xaku has an apparent affinity with evasion and dodge (Passive and Vast Untime). Have you seriously try to exploit that ? A high evasion rate is widely sufficient to have a very good survivability by using and abusing the shield gate mechanic. To increase evasion rate, the best way seems to be Carnis set (evasion rate + status immunity) + Sly Vulpa. These things were introduced in game with Deimos (Wait ?!.. Like Xaku ! In my mind, it's not a total coincidence !). With that you need only one mod for survivability on Xaku : Carnis carapace. Besides Sly Vulpa buff synergize very well with Grasp of Lohk. Void weapons can activate Vulpa buff but can't deactivate it with their shots.

And if you tell me that is limited to add survivability to a frame, I will answer you no more than Primed Flux + Quick Thinking for all frames like Banshee, Limbo, Nyx, etc...

 

Sorry if I'm a little too much sarcastic but you can't say that I'm wrong only because I think differently than you. Okay, maybe I'm wrong but, in that case, show me that I'm wrong with facts no with your opinions.

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I'm finding Xaku pretty poggers for hunting Liches solo. Their armor stripping, bonus weapon damage, and scaling damage from GoL let them do very high damage to liches and their thralls, and their CC and passive (along with VU) keep them relatively safe from lich weapons and many of their abilities.

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8 hours ago, Khalial said:

In a previous post you judge Xaku's survivability is awful. OK. Xaku has an apparent affinity with evasion and dodge (Passive and Vast Untime). Have you seriously try to exploit that ? A high evasion rate is widely sufficient to have a very good survivability by using and abusing the shield gate mechanic. To increase evasion rate, the best way seems to be Carnis set (evasion rate + status immunity) + Sly Vulpa. These things were introduced in game with Deimos (Wait ?!.. Like Xaku ! In my mind, it's not a total coincidence !). With that you need only one mod for survivability on Xaku : Carnis carapace. Besides Sly Vulpa buff synergize very well with Grasp of Lohk. Void weapons can activate Vulpa buff but can't deactivate it with their shots.

As for Sly Vulpa ability: as with Shade and it's stealth if you want to use your weapons then it's almost useless. You need specific way of playing game. And it's not a Carrier*... not even sentinel, so given it's stupid AI it will probably die.
* Carrier have many advantages for "go to" companion, so another companion should have something good so I want to pick it.
As for Carnis Set: I'm not sure how good this effect on heavy attack kill works. It's more melee oriented. If are not using gunblades then you are in melee range. For me, I like to use high-status non-melee (infested Cernos) with Xata's Whisper AND disarming of his Grasp of Lohk. So Carnis mod on frame is not good enough.
 

8 hours ago, Khalial said:

A frame theme can justify a modding requirement. The fact that you find this absurb is only your point of view, not an absolute truth. For me, Xaku's modding is not absurb but particular and I love it ! I would have found extremely borring to have an umpteenth new Warframe able to do all content with a simple ultra-standard equilibrated modding

The thing is if you want all abilities to work you need almost every stat.
Xata's Whisper needs ~100 duration and maybe some strength.
Grasp of Lohk needs range to kill enemies from farther or strength to kill them faster. The AI of guns are not good and they are slow so you need one of that stat. If you want to just disarm enemies then you want Efficiency or Energy (Flow or Primed Flow).
The Lost needs strength.
The Vast untime needs ~100% duration but needs strength so you see "slow effect" on enemies. It's not an aura so you need either efficiency or range.

For me, I can live without 100+ range but it needs Strength, Efficiency and/or (Primed) Flow and I cannot have less than ~ 60 duration because 1st & 3rd abilities becomes useless and 4th becomes very "meh".

I don't have such problems with most frames afair.
 

On 2020-10-07 at 9:40 AM, Khalial said:

For Forma it's allways usefull to have one of each classic polarity (--, V, D).  Personnaly I added 3 formas. Two formas to add -- & V polarity and one forma to replace one of D to V polarity. But I understand that you don't want to use forma before the last changes ;) (Even if I think which the big changes are passed, just some adjustment are necessary now).

Some change may change my gameplay. Even void status being able to proc other body parts may change from a huge bubble covering whole body to a small bubble covering just that body part. Who knows. If that was the case it would make Xata's whisper more damage oriented, hence less useful for me.

 

 

On 2020-10-07 at 9:40 AM, Khalial said:

For a build based on VU with 50% of slow I would use :

Intensity Umbra (or Blind Rage (rank 4) to have exactly 200% of power if 199% is not enough for Gaze by example) /Transent fortitude/Primed Continuity/Stretch/Augur Reach/Cunning Drift (Exilus). After that you have 3 "classic" mods and 1 Aura which you can choice has you want for more energy/more efficiency/more survivability/etc... With my config I would add Corrosive Projection,  Primed Flow (rank 8), Streamline (rank 3) (or max rank If I use Blind Rage (rank 4) ) and Carnis Carapace (I love to play with Carnis set and Sly Vulpa to maximize Xaku's evasion and to have a status immunity).

 

You can also replace Streamline by Fleeting Expertise (rank 3-4) if you prefer to have more efficiency in counterpart to less duration.

Thank you for the response.
Well, if you or anyone is interested, for my "master disarmer":
I'm thinking about Intensify Umbra + Umbra Vitality + Transient Fortitude to get more health + ~200% strength (Transient fortitude not maxed).
Primed continuity with Fleeting expertise (maxed) would make duration at ~70 afair. It's good enough with the Vast untime freezing time.
For me 3 slots for Range is too much. Overextended would decrease strength... so it's big no.
I'm thinking about Primed flow. With good efficiency I was able to cast the abilities a lot. But if I want to put some energy-mod then I would put Primed version.
Carnis mod for frame is little bad. Sure if you put whole set and kill enemies with a heavy attack then it's fine. However without using heavy attacks putting it on frame and getting few HP and some armor is not good enough.
It needs to be fast so I've put the Rush (exilus).
It comes with 2 V polarities (afair) so I've put Vitality + Primed Vigor as for now.
I'm planning to get Amalgam barrel diffusion to speed up rolling animation but I need to wait for it (I cannot buy it...).

This way of playing makes it almost invisible (no guns = no damage). Only things that could kill are statuses and some few things that I don't remember.

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13 hours ago, Khalial said:

A frame theme can justify a modding requirement. The fact that you find this absurb is only your point of view, not an absolute truth. For me, Xaku's modding is not absurb but particular and I love it ! I would have found extremely borring to have an umpteenth new Warframe able to do all content with a simple ultra-standard equilibrated modding

 

For me, Xaku is a very good warframe because I can do almost all content with it in solo even if it's not always simple. 

So I'm curious, what is your definition of a "good" Warframe ?

 

"Functionnal warframe", "still falls short in terms of performance".... For what ? Compared to what ? What context ? Be more precise if you want a real discussion and argumentation.

 

In a previous post you judge Xaku's survivability is awful. OK. Xaku has an apparent affinity with evasion and dodge (Passive and Vast Untime). Have you seriously try to exploit that ? A high evasion rate is widely sufficient to have a very good survivability by using and abusing the shield gate mechanic. To increase evasion rate, the best way seems to be Carnis set (evasion rate + status immunity) + Sly Vulpa. These things were introduced in game with Deimos (Wait ?!.. Like Xaku ! In my mind, it's not a total coincidence !). With that you need only one mod for survivability on Xaku : Carnis carapace. Besides Sly Vulpa buff synergize very well with Grasp of Lohk. Void weapons can activate Vulpa buff but can't deactivate it with their shots.

And if you tell me that is limited to add survivability to a frame, I will answer you no more than Primed Flux + Quick Thinking for all frames like Banshee, Limbo, Nyx, etc...

 

Sorry if I'm a little too much sarcastic but you can't say that I'm wrong only because I think differently than you. Okay, maybe I'm wrong but, in that case, show me that I'm wrong with facts no with your opinions.

Being forced to use up 5-6 mod slots to get the mandatory 200% range and strength necessary for Xakus abilities to be passable is absurd. Also it’s funny that you say that you don’t like frames that require an equalized build. Well ideally that’s what Xaku wants too, but there’s not enough mod slots to satisfy that. And the fact that it’s forcing you to try and max out 2 stats that don’t mix well at that level because Overextended decreases strength by a significant margin just further shows how poorly balanced Xakus mod requirements are.

A good Warframe is a frame that doesn’t require 3 abilities and 5/6 of my energy pool to do something a handful of other frames can do better with just 1 ability and significantly less energy. 
 

We should not have to modify builds to negate bad things about a frames design. We should be modifying builds to enhance what’s already good about the frame. Modding Xaku is literally nothing more than trying to turn bad stats into ok stats.

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about xata whisper 

why not make it like roar buff; meaning that it can buff teammates weapons damage with void damage and also buff your and allied abilities with void damage

and sentinels too you know the thing that roar does but instead is void damage

also why xaku void damage doesn't affect eidolon shields 

why do you care if instead of destroying the eidolon shield with amp + madurai i do it with xaku instead ?????? 

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Why is The Lost so costly?

Accuse costs 75 Energy to turn enemies, something Revenant can do for 25. Titania and Limbo can also CC a group of enemies for 25 energy. Harrow can CC an entire wave for 25 and he gets all of his shields back.

Deny shoots a laser for 75 energy. Opticor does this for free. Certain amps can do this for free. The damage isn't good enough and the CC is also not good enough.

Gaze is the only one that's even slightly worth it, but after using The Vast Untime and Grasp of Lohk, I have no energy left! And once you kill all the enemies in Gaze's AOE, you need to recast it on another group! That's another 75 energy!

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i dont have xaku or dislike the new content, i did sound engineering and weapons testing on some of the void and darker atmosphere should have been more responsive, i think some additional weather or feature which reacts to the players weapons and abilities would be a great way to add "friction" resistors and resistance are key to each tileset, as well to complement the gameplay and atmospheres, with rain and snow, lakes and resource gathering are fun things to do, but they should have other arrestors and rewards based on the fact that players get attacked or that its risky, radio interuptions and traps of nearby predators and enemies is continous especially in fortuna where the robots are a bit more stealthy but only the spiders do a good job at being "alien" with their fangs and unpredictable attacks, so the minimap ruins alot of the action as well as the mod cards which make players into robotic - reddot invaders, music changes and atmospherics will be a good way to keep the players intrigued by reducing movement speed, causing explosions and recould based on the landscape features if the players shoot at computers or floors PENALTIES and if you allow some energy to be converged into things that enemies can use or capture.

that the grineer can capture flowers and make different bombs and escape players shooting at them with smokebombs, or static grenades, beacons and features should require enhancements.. \\they are field experts but they die too soon to see any of their toolkits so players dont get aliking to them, if they are easily dominated by gore, they will just become gore complainers i think changing the music based on the areas and actions of the players is measly but it should workout in some action and subtle bountis dont need NPC, even if the players cant use the items they find locked doors, they should be faced with a bouncer, turret, occasional bursa or deffering syndicate, zombie, animal, laboratory, etc.

  • the grineer need to appear in other tilesets including the new areas of fortuna and deimos
  • further the effects of players getting hit by slime and spider webs, penalties, weather effects, getting dirty or grassy, snowy / icy coatings on the weapons should cause some realistic push and drag but occasionally give enhancements to ready and reload according to suit each players, picking up cards, and items should change that with energy packets or assassinations, damage based kills, combo, syndicate or spectre, and abilities or a way to reset the effects should be temporary and long at first the robotics take a hit with shield swap-regeneration but now the fuelcells are screaming for oxaygen,, this way players have to monitor their energy and bullets, pickups, and need to use the found items on the go for crafting and enhancing the ennergy or robotics, until they learn to use mods, some creatures can be rentals or pets in cetus the birds would be a great target because they can be taught different camuflage skills and perform stealthy attacks if the right owner used it to gather items for the bounty players, and the fishing made more sense, then a bunch of players would want to gather to collect ores and minning without equiping a spear or a raygun, just hit it with the zaw, and shoot at it, then leave the rest to the scientist who want to get greedy or pretty, this way each planet can get low level missions for party maker, and and other features according to the low level players who dont want to get stuck in earth- the grineer invaded planet with a relay. lol the relays in this game are really in need of refreshing features like animals and more shops , they should have archwing and zaws, boards, and parts for weapons to keep players away from blueprints you give them temporary firearms or heavy weapons which they can playtests, or earn the later and previous casket and stock could still be useful in making warframes and other new content later/.
  • i think earth and fortuna are in worst condition, and the relays because they all have the same layouts structure accomodating the same NPC and syndicates, pvp is a dark game phase for player who can find it on their ships and the rewards are horrible for simaris and fighting if you aren't good at the game, most players wont even do the mastery ranks like me who rather glamour and use the playtesting features, so mars relay can have its own faction and bounties for visitors without parking the nodes should offer some currency or points leaving the syndicate features for grabs as optional content  as replayable content, the players would be given tests weapons and spectre which can also be toolkits and features for the wheelgear or bullet cases, temporary boosting mods, or passive traits that can be acquired through hacking, cards which repeat could combo or cause a "synapse" but enemies could also WIELD those items and use the energy packets in magical ways like volt shooting a laser thingy, the balls are not good. and releasing prisoners. Things like that, 
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On 2020-10-06 at 4:23 PM, Xaegar said:

Grasp of Lohk when built for high range has guns floating underneath the floor and since these guns have no line of sight of any enemy, they are pretty much …useless.

If I build my Xaku for 250% range, that is about 15 guns and out of these 15 guns, 3 or 4 of them are underneath the floor and they don't fire at anything whatsoever. 

I tested this in simulacrum as well and the floor guns don't seem to be firing even though enemies were within firing range. Four guns being inactive is quite a bit of DPS loss and with the proposed max gun count on recast change, this becomes a lot more noticeable. If possible can we have the guns stacked a bit closer together than go all the way up and down like a Christmas tree. This would prevent the guns from being clipper through the floor and losing line of sight of enemies.

MaBsCK1.png

The number of guns underneath the floor also varies with terrain. Please look into this before releasing Round 2 changes.

Also it would be nice to have The Vast Untime's evasion buffed to 85%.

Thanks~

  1. yes and also i think that the mod cards and polarities or slots should feature some overheating or penalties to go along the pickups and energy play per planet environment there usually is different weathers and things which normally arent interactive so i think that hacking is good way to get the parazon cards to trigger, but grabbing stuff from dead enemies and lockers leaves me with much to be desire a temporary feature, while the slots which are spent or hot get detriments and require repairs or release EXP, PONTS, and other unlockables, which ENDO might adhere to, but the players can maybe choose a way to keep those schools and focus more interesting.
  2. so abilities should also affect the operators and affinity points, and offer other transference or rewards / items, which can open up the wheel-gear for other stuff to get mixed or combininng the repeat cards and elixers, but the weather would mater like stepping on grass or water could make MADURAI inovatge a fire burst or give interesting reload results near trees, tranference arcanes could glow and break open into diamonds and ghost things, which are attacking robotics cores, and relics behavior, further or adhearent causes wall-latch and and damage, 
  • equiping various mods of the same polarity for example VARIZON would give a passive trait, or additional melee, like riven, or shields at low HP, stringing alike variables would be saving resources too.
  • the slots would pulsate and get infected, so cards require encasing like the relics the reactant can be great to find in lockers and the regular items to give interesting reload or crouch results which can be GOOD or BAD, transference could be used to heal and enhance the warframe, but later it can be held to use another super or combined KI for knockback and shielding depending the players class witout usign arcanes or mastery points, these charges could be part of a meter or call for some conditions releasing powerful burst like gauss and xaku, glitch comes to mind but it should be something that everyone and enemies can achieve to stay alive and make nodes more fun, can use in general
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