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Heart of Deimos: Xaku Feedback Megathread


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How is this a Community designed Warframe? Nova was the first and has a very well designed kit that makes her a top tier pick. But Xaku in his current state is the polar opposite.

Seems like DE just chose these ideas because they sounded cool instead of being actually useful in gameplay.

Edited by Ace-Bounty-Hunter
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Xaku's 1 gives 16_16_23_26% void damage to weapons/abilities, wouldn't it be better to make it 20_30_40_50%? A similar ability called Toxic lash is 30% (60% with melee) with forced toxin as a Damage Over Time on top of that... Void damage is not a DoT. Shouldn't it also force the void status to prevent stealing other proc instances? Lastly about the ability, it needs something to synergize with the kit, perhaps make all abilities apply void status if it is active. Note: Void damage was supposed to be neutral aka (effective against all factions), but it is -50% to fossilized and flesh, thus making it quite bad against infested (ancients). Void status being effective against all factions seems to indicate that it would grant a multiplier to all damage with enemies possessing void status. Maybe it was that all hits would register as headshots (even if it centers on target origin) with the mini bullet magnet. I'm pretty sure that got overlooked and never happened back when the Plains Of Eidolon stress was high. I should also mention that this ability was my idea. Just see my post during the ability ideas phase of broken frame please, before pestering me with "that wasn't your idea" messages.

Edit: Alternative option for handling Xaku's 1:

Spoiler

On top of forcing void status, it would convert all damage of the weapon to void damage and extra by the %. However, because that would be horrible by itself, allow the damage instance to proc the element types of the mods on the weapon. However again, it is still less effective in this state and would need more. This "more" would be that "Void damage itself" would adapt to enemy weaknesses and be able to proc the most vulnerable status of the enemy, and paired with the Void status making all hits register as headshots if they have Void status with the bubble, it would be a damage type that would be the best and only accessed through Xaku or Operators. (Would be nice to have operators get mods to amps like a secondary weapon.) All of that would have people actually use operators as temporary power with some balance and nerfs to the strength of amps (and likely eidolon shields to match). All in all, people hate shield phase because it requires void strike, (a style nobody likes) just to get rid of it immediately. I would suggest change void strike and make shields easier to damage (maybe allow all warframe powers [because only volt shield works] to affect operators and make them part of the core game instead of the content island they always have been). Operators are usable in the main game only to support the Warframe and never to use for their amp outside of sentients. With the previous change to void damage and status, operator amps would be very powerful (like they were supposed to be, shown in the quest where they delete sentients left and right). Xaku having a tap on void power would make it a valuable choice for tapping into that and give it a place. Eidolons taking shield damage from Xaku isn't "a bad idea" because, if you make operators good in the main game, people will want the amps to use in the main game, and will get them despite Xaku being able to kill eidolons. Steel path, Arbitration is an interesting thought for a place to drop all arcanes if players still do not want to do eidolons because of the toxicity of the players around it. I don't blame them for hating it just like I do. We want Xaku to damage shields or make operators good, simply because the shields compounded by a time limited objective are what caused the toxicity to begin with. I have a thousand+ eidolon captures, I know very much how the people can be and that is why I stopped doing eidolons a long time ago. Shield phase was limited to the most specific option for viability, and by those means, limited it to the most elitist, toxic, try-hards that would ruin any community. Making something difficult with many options removes the toxicity in that they have a harder time saying: "This is what you have to do perfectly or we will remake and leave you" and if you mess up, they leave anyways, regardless of if you can do it.

Xaku's 2 with enemy level scaling damage is fine and doesn't feel worthless if built for it. My biggest issue with it is, if you were to use Gaze, all of the weapons will non-stop shoot the invulnerable Gaze'd enemy. If I were to buff it, I would probably increase the range since Xaku being all duration abilities requires narrow minded. Lastly about this ability, if the changes to the 1 allowed this to create bullet magnets and score the shots as headshots on second shots, this wouldn't be needed, but otherwise, it should probably be increased from 20/30/40/50 damage base to 20/40/60/80.

Xaku's 3's should cast the ability on press and hold to switch forms, instead of the current opposite, which makes it feel clunky and slow with the given ability types. Overall, I think a range increase by 50% on all forms would allow more diversity and the ability to put mods that aren't only ability related on, just to make the kit work. Deny should be like 25-50% of the casting time it is currently (it feels extremely slow, even with natural talent). Gaze actually seems to be balanced solidly with the rest of the kit design in its stats. An issue with Gaze is that you have to have the energy to cast the ability to cancel it on an enemy already Gaze'd, which can lead people at Hydron getting mad at you for not cancelling it if you run out of energy. Accuse also works pretty well if you like that style.

Xaku's 4 tool-tip doesn't quite make sense with the stat shown. One thing I would change with the ability is remove the energy drain since it already has a duration and also because all 4 abilities are duration based. Why does this matter? Well it turns out, trying to maintain range, efficiency, strength, and duration is impossible. The kit doesn't work together unless you throw one out, and efficiency being required to limit the drain on the 4 just forces an energize meta. With the energy drain removed and basing on the duration from the high energy cost, it doesn't make sense to have the drain as well. You are going to cancel and recast anyways to explode again so why does it have a drain? It costs energy to shed the body, it shouldn't cost energy drain to prevent the body regenerating so you can be more evasive... If anything, it should cost half the energy to regenerate the body, or wait for the duration to end to explode again.

2020.08.29-11.01.pngThis build is honestly the only way to make Xaku feel like it can do something. In order for the abilities to work, a minimum of 200% strength is required. In order to make anything work that isn't its' 1, you need all the range possible. In order to make any of the abilities work period, you need as much duration as possible. In order to use its' 4, you need good efficiency, which isn't possible with the other 3 requirements and concludes with this frame not using the 4 because the energy drain is incompatible with the rest of the kit and it is accurately said "impossible to make this frame use all abilities together with how the style would suggest".

Edited by Velitria
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8 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

 

Damage wise he is absolutely pitiful. I thought his 2 was supposed to scale ? Where is the scaling ? 

It “scales” because it using enemy damage. Which scales with their level. So while your damage is technically scaling it’s always going to be miles behind where you need it to be to actually kill something.

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After playing a bit more with Xaku, I want to second two major concerns already mentioned here:

* Void damage and in particular status procs being so bad, Xata's Whisper can be very detrimental when using weapons built for status effects and void procs happen where you could have viral, heat, slash, toxin etc.

* The energy cost of The Vast Untime is crazy. 100 energy activation cost and a finite duration and energy drain while active? This ability is triple-dipping into our energy reserves on a Warframe that does not even come with a built-in way to regenerate energy easily. This ability should either have the 100 energy cost and fixed duration but no drain, OR a very small initial cost with no limit on its duration and drain while active. 

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7 hours ago, HerpDerpy said:

So main complaint I have is with his 4.

It cost 100 energy, and has a drain over time, and has a duration to it. If its going to have a drain over time make it a channeled ability that last forever, or remove the drain over time. Its also missing stats in the ability screen.

Really they did to that ability what they did to Mirages Prism? That sucks.

Those restrictions aren’t even justified on Mirage anymore.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It “scales” because it using enemy damage. Which scales with their level. So while your damage is technically scaling it’s always going to be miles behind where you need it to be to actually kill something.

You actually only need about 150% power strength to deal with non-armor enemies in 1-2 shots.

Yes, I was killing sortie enemies in 1-2 shots.

Edited by Velitria
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14 minutes ago, Mephane said:

After playing a bit more with Xaku, I want to second two major concerns already mentioned here:

* Void damage and in particular status procs being so bad, Xata's Whisper can be very detrimental when using weapons built for status effects and void procs happen where you could have viral, heat, slash, toxin etc.

* The energy cost of The Vast Untime is crazy. 100 energy activation cost and a finite duration and energy drain while active? This ability is triple-dipping into our energy reserves on a Warframe that does not even come with a built-in way to regenerate energy easily. This ability should either have the 100 energy cost and fixed duration but no drain, OR a very small initial cost with no limit on its duration and drain while active. 

The void proc is an extra I believe and doesn't interfere with other procs if it is a forced proc, unless I am wrong and it needs to be a forced proc because that would be really bad if I'm wrong.

Yes, it should just be 100 cost to explode and be based on the duration with no energy drain since energy drain can't fit his kit with all abilities being duration based.

Edited by Velitria
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1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

How is this a Community designed Warframe? Nova was the first and has a very well designed kit that makes her a top tier pick. But Xaku in his current state is the polar opposite.

Seems like DE just chose these ideas because they sounded cool instead of being actually useful in gameplay.

I wanna know who was picking these abilities. Because I’m getting major Revenant and Nyx rework vibes from Xakus kit and that’s very much a bad thing.

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39 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I wanna know who was picking these abilities. Because I’m getting major Revenant and Nyx rework vibes from Xakus kit and that’s very much a bad thing.

Xata's whisper was my idea for one, but the frame seems similar to what Pablo and Scott would do.

Nova was so good because you didn't need to build for strength, fun fact. Which for the same reason nova only had to build for 3 things, I suggest the energy drain be removed from Xaku's 4 because it conflicts with him being an all duration frame that needs range and strength (which can't happen without blind rage and upkeep the 4 energy cost because Fleeting expertise reduces duration by 60% which a duration based frame cannot afford).

2020.08.26-01.11.pngSo far this is the best I could get and would just not use his 4 if I wanted to make the rest of his kit work.

Also could it please get better base stats? They really suck (could his 4 grant more move speed too?).

Edited by Velitria
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As pretty much everyone is saying, the low stats are really bringing him down. Low damage, low range, low duration...

 

1: Xata's Whisper doesn't feel like I'm getting much of a damage increase, and part of it's likely due to the damage type. I'm tempted to replace this with augmented shock or smite just for a better damage type. Also, Void procs prevent headshots (or makes them MUCH harder to land), which does reduce overall damage

 

2: Grasp of Lohk has nothing going for it. This forces Xaku into melee range despite being pretty squishy, so that he can shoot some weak guns...in melee range...Please make this a targeted range cast and add actual range to the guns. Then also please look at the damage and duration. This ability really needs help in all departments

 

3. The Lost is...eh. All I can say is that Gaze needs more range, and that Deny needs some help. There is never a good time to use Deny, the damage is pitiful and you can typically only ever hit one enemy. I'd rather try to go in and kill stuff with Grasp of Lohk...

 

4. For an ability about self destructing, this feels very lackluster. Damage sucks. If you want this to be focused on the void debuff, then the range sucks too. Duration + energy Drain = bad. And then, I do feel lied to about the damage "reduction". We were told damage reduction, then evasion, then reduction again. Turns out it was evasion, which is not even close to being as good. It'd be better if it just added to his passive, so he just has a high chance of negating a hit. Evasion means you CAN still get hit even if the attack wasn't meant for you, negation means that IF you get hit there's a chance it won't damage you.

 

I really want him to be good. Xaku looks awesome, his abilities sound cool on paper, and he's a community frame! Sadly he's REALLY bogged down by poor stats

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honestly what did you guys think? a warframe that was picked up as a joke, should stay that way, but no, DE tried to make him make sense, and added one of the most boring and bland abilities you can think of

passive: basically nyx's passive

1: a damage buff that doesn't actually buff damage

2: garbage damage ability 

3: small range, basic CC powers that makes no impact or effectiveness whatsoever

4: a literal lie, 75% dodge chance? are you kidding me? 

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For a "hasty" fix personally I'd see it that way (copying what I've said on reddit) :

- Tweak Void status effect so it focus bullets on the head of the target and maybe give a damage boost a la discount Mag 2nd ability.

- Tweak 2 so it actually deals freaking damage with proper scaling. Or even better, make it a pseudo exalted so it would scale off your weapon mods. 
Khora already do that. Why Xaku wouldn't ?

- 3 can stay as is with void status effect fixed. The Mind control just make you less targeted so it's fine IMO for a solo player purpose. And the armor strip is nice. You can place it on multiple target without canceling, so in defense mission for example just place it on chokepoint and everything going through it gets no armor.

- Make 4 less energy hungry and add a health regen effect on it.

Even without DR it should work decently IMO.

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has anyone tested out if xakus damage abilities besides xatas whisper can proc the void damage status effect? void damage isn't a good damage type but the proc can give it some extra utility for the abilities.

Edited by cococciolo
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One more crazy idea is to allow to replace parts of Xaku's 3rd ability with 3 different Helminth abilities. So for example Xaku would be able to use Shock, Larva and Roar by switching between them as he switches between Accuse, Gaze and Deny.

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il y a 4 minutes, cococciolo a dit :

has anyone tested out if xakus damage abilities besides xatas whisper can proc the void damage status effect? void damage isn't a good damage type but the proc can give it some extra utility for the abilities.

Only third ability, the sort of "ray" procs it.

And it's garbage. It concentrate all shots in the center mass of the affected enemies instead of the head where most players are aiming. It's actually LESS effective than using your guns yourself without the proc.

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1 Ab seems weak and unnecessary (why would I need more damage if I already kill mobs with 1-2 hits in melee).

2 Ab is too simple and incomplete. The damage radius is very small, I need at least 16 meters by default. It would be nice to make this ability streaming (very frustrating to always renew it with 2 Ab).

3 Ab is a more interesting ability and requires small digital gains.

4 Ab with no additional 75% damage reduction is very weak. Why would he dodge if he could be killed in 2 shots by level 170+ mobs !? Against the background of Revenant and other "tenacious" abilities, 4 Ab is just a "DE joke for 100 energy." Xaku 4 needs this damage reduction. This should also be based on duration (no power consumption per second).

Or, remove the duration and consumption per second, reduce the cost to 25 energy and allow the skeleton to go out without an explosion for free when holding the ability button, and for 25 energy with an explosion when pressing the key.

Edited by Ph4nt0m_ru
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    Xaku is a nice addition to warframe, I see a lot of potential as a vet but she needs some serious tweaks. I remember during the Tennocon that Xaku’s second ability stole enemy weapons,     disarmed them and scaled off enemy level for damage which was specified. As of release Xaku’s second ability does not scale damage in any way. The second problem with Xaku is “Defy”, this ability, as I see is unnecessary and not very useful. The range of “Defy” Is not the problem, although a bit short, the width of it is the issue. The “Defy ability does not hit enough enemies to be viable, And on top of the fact of having to stand still and aim The ability making you an easy kill, the damage is very disappointing. And lastly, the only other issue with her would be her ultimate, it’s a good idea but the execution is mediocre. Her ultimate doesn’t do enough of anything besides give her a medium survivability boost, other than that it’s not very useful. The slow effect isn’t enough and the damage increase for void damage is ok at best. Although I only pointed out the negative of this warframe she is no were near a bad warframe, In my personal opinion she is a solid choice against mid level enemies but not high tier. I hope I sounded as objective as possible because this conversation to improve this new warframe, and someone relays this to D.E or the crew. Thank you

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I have to agree with the general consensus in this thread: Xaku is just too weak right now.

I love the concepts of Xaku's kit, and on lower levels had a lot of fun using it, but the second you get into level 40s and beyond, some problems become apparent.

Their one is a barely noticable buff that can be actively detrimental to your damage.

Their two is way too slow, both in casting and in fire rate once you've actually got the guns, and as others have pointed out, beyond level 30 or so even when the guns do fire, the damage is poor.

Their 3 feels awkward to use, but other than maybe switching it to "tap to cast, hold to rotate", I think it's mostly fine.

And their 4 is just waaaaay too weak for how energy consuming it is. 

I love Xaku's look and animations so much, maybe my favorite looking warframe honestly. The way attachments are asymetrical on the arms or the way certain sydanas are crooked on their back is A plus, amazing work by the art team! 

I like skeleton form, and think it looks fine with the defuslt animations personally, (though wouldnt be opposed to floating animations like others have suggested).

Honestly if Xaku gets retuned in comparable ways to baruuk (my current main) and Protea, they could easily become my new main. I want to love them completely, their kit just feels a little out of wack number wise.

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2 hours ago, Velitria said:

Xata's whisper was my idea for one, but the frame seems similar to what Pablo and Scott would do.

Scott and Pablo are smart enough to know what does and does not work for a frames ability.

a void damage boost for weapons is not a good ability because void damage is awful. And from what we can gather from the feedback. It’s actually reducing weapon effectiveness despite the additional damage.

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Ok after lving for 3 forma and use xaku on various misson and level so this is my feedback.

For me Xaku is very lack of useful kit. Most of skill is have very trouble drawback.

1. 1st skill, Xata's Whisper - Void damage is really need revamp. Damage that is no buff to most type of enemy, but got 2 drawback. It's effect also not that effective. So skill that just give buff it? most frame will got that when use agrument mod for sub ability. or some frame this type of ability  it was just one of choice. So why not apply it to Xaku also,

2. 2nd skill Grasp of Lohk - to steal enemy weapon is good idea on paper but when you try to use it in fight you will see many drawback on this ability. Yes it can steal up to 8 enemy but you need to stay near them enough to do it. For high level enemy it's may death sentence to do so, because this ability is very slow casting. even with Nautral Talent, this ability is too slow for work for max potential. so you will end up get 2-4 enemy most of time. Then it lead to damage problem. Compare to ability that very similar on protea. This skill is not just need to steal enemy weapon to use, which mean you can't just cast it. it's damage is very low. Slow fire rate and very short range. And damage also just come on Void damage. mean it's no any damage buff so you can test protea and xaku skill and you will see how lackluster of this skill now.

3. 3rd skill, The Lost - I think for xaku this skill may most useful but it's still got very bad drawback on it. Accuse is one i use it most cause it act as CC ability but same to revenant Entrhall it's was CC that can deal damage on the same time. But the problem of this ability is after you case no matter how many enemy you catch in ability range. if it sucess it's will prohibit you to recast again until that no more thrall enemy or time up. so if you mistake to catch enemy on range, you will end up catch 1 or 2 enemy then need to wait until time up or need to kill them yourself to recast again. In serious fight this can lead to death. Why not make this skill can recast any time. but if got recast enemy that already entrall will be recover (unless it catch on new cast range) With 75 en for each cast i don't think this will overpower in anyways. for Gaze i have nothing to compain. it's work as it is. and for Deny, it's just another attack that can remove sentient resistance that all about it. for me it just another "fire and forgot" on void damage that all about it. same to many "Fire and forgot" that have no any effect behind it. Why we need bother to shoot it cause weapon can deal more damage not long casting animation with 75 en each shot.

4.4th skill, The Vast Untime, for me this skill is very lack value for ultimate skill. It's not help much on damage, AoE is so so. even it's combine to skill 1, but i don't think you will sacrify 100 en for every group of enemy for just make it slow and get more damage form void damage. For me this skill was brand as "Oh my god! i'm gonna to die" then use it for get it damage resistance and slow enemy fire around. But for it effect, As ability that depend on duration and as ulitmate skill, it's not really match with energy that it ask for. This skill is like 2nd or 3rd tier skill more than ultimate.

So turn out Xaku is become very not utility frame imo. I try use it in Kuva Flood with just level 100 enemy. I  found it can't deal any impressive synergy on any skill. It's not tank frame, unless with 4th skill, But it's damage skill is also not that good, it's cc skill also not that good, it's have no aoe damage. All skill is like just partial of aviable frame mix up but worst.

When protea release, even with no buff stage. I still feel protea got potency just abit adjustment. But i feel Xaku skill need quite revamp to make him shine else he will fall back to the "Less playable frame" on the bottom row.

 

 

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I think Xaku could use a variation of elemental damage types alongside Void. For example, Grasp of Lohk to be Heat, Deny to be Radiation, and The Vast Untime to be Blast, each with a fair status chance. Then, Xata's Whisper adding Void damage and proc to those abilities.

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6 hours ago, waynexx said:

man, can someone help the guy implementing these frames? he has no idea how the game works, and definitely doesn't have enough time.

you'd think they'd throw more resources at the frame aspect of warFRAME. they're an afterthought at this point. well, i shouldn't need to worry about this anyway as most of the new content revolves around some half-baked vehicle mechanic.

I mean, yeah. Ideally I’d want every frame in the game to have 4 useful abilities. I still have my problems with half-kits like Chroma, valkyr, Excalibur, ect.

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Okay, I have not yet obtained this frame, but from what I saw and what people are saying, Xaku is not very good. While I was all for the design and concept, the execution did not work well.

So rather than try to repeat the points made by everyone else in the megathread, I will just provide suggestions on what the frame's ability kit should look like in my own opinion.

So for his passive, I feel that either he should have his own unique type of void damage that provides a 10% damage bonus to all health/armor/shield types but not effective towards eidolons to prevent the frame from being meta (since that is what DE wants to avoid apparently) or something on the lines of collecting scrap armor/weapons from fallen enemies to make xaku stronger.

 

For his first ability, I was thinking they should have tried to make it like Neo's devil breakers from Devil May Cry 5 where xaku can cycle through different parts to perform different attacks. This would definitely not only fit with the theme of the frame but could also be a pretty unique mechanic to add. Maybe use of augments to create more "devil breakers" down the line? See image below for basic idea and link for more details on Devil Breakers.

Spoiler

Devil Breaker | Devil May Cry Wiki | Fandom

https://devilmaycry.fandom.com/wiki/Devil_Breaker 

 

Ability 2 I kinda like but it does sound like it needs a lot of tweaks and buffs to make it good. Examples being increased grab range, proper scaling damage, etc.

Ability 3 has good concept, but the abilities chosen are a bit disappointing besides Deny which just needs to be buff and tweaked. Accuse sounds like another minion ability while gaze is very similar to Khora's Ensnare. I was kinda hoping that DE was going to use extra abilities they had that did not really fit on other warframes. Prototype powers that were put aside since they did not seem to have a warframe theme for said ability. That would have been really cool and could have allowed for a random collection of prototype abilities that end up being really good. Heck additional augments could be made to swap out different abilities for other ones.

As for xaku's 4th ability, aside from buffing it and applying tweaks to improve it, I really just want the exo-skeleton from to have it's own animation set so it actually looks menacing and not goofy running around. Maybe like one of those witches from left for dead 2 or something to make it look like a threat. Also, maybe this mode could allow for xaku to perform different attacks similar to what the operator is capable of.

 

That's all I have to say regarding xaku. Hopefully, the frame will eventually be readjusted and buff to become more viable or interesting to use.

Thank you for reading this post and have a good day.

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This frame needs work done on it like ASAP.
Make void damage do something for one, removing the ability to even get head shots if the void proc happens is even worse.

His 2 needs some better scaling or the ability to sacrifice the guns he stole for scrap parts to heal himself or convert to a scaling armor bonus, idk do something to make this work better in his kit. 

some of his 3's need to have better scalling and a larger cone of effect on the ray, maybe the ray can give enemies a large puncture esque proc as well maybe reducing enemy damage done by like 40% (value wouldnt scale with mods on the damage reduction).

lastly his 4, man his 4 is like.... just a huge mess of what seems like nobody could agree on anything so everything was added "hey we couldn't come to an agreement on if it should be duration or channeled so we made it both, we gave it the 100 energy cost of a duration ability but hey, you also lose energy per second until you reform." Another thing on his 4, it literally needs to be 75% damage reduction that can scale up to 90% with power strength mods, the AoE explosion needs to do more damage or cause some type of hard CC for a few seconds, the skeletal form needs to also just have an effect kind of like mags new hold feature, the more projectiles and damage xaku absorbs while in this form before he reforms to his armored mode should add to his void damage buffs, of course the value would be capped at a certain amount depending on your mods.

Forgot to mention the passive, the passive i okay if the rest of his kit is tweaked a good amount, but imo i would have just made his passive support his energy costs, like if an enemy is killed with a void proc xaku would receive energy from the void and replenish some of his energy, because with the suggestions I made he could just ditch the 25% chance to avoid damage.

Edited by Vahnstahd
left stuff out and typo
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