Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[kyori]

Glyphs from Grandmother don't have all 8 Requiem Glyphs is it? It keep rotating the same few for the past few days.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

It was already boring to get the hunt requirement to reach lvl 3 of entrati standing... just to figure out that you need to do even more to gild your new pets, and that many grand'ma tokens require son tokens too...

It's not that the token system is bad, it's just that the whole farming imply boring activities that doesn't even reward anything but tokens (not even Endo, relics, credits, etc).

[Jaq.]

Make Velocipod lure available at SON's store.

For each kind of resource to be exchanged to any kind of tokens, there should NOT be RNG involved. It's OK the supply to be limited for a period of time but the random types and combinations are forcing me to just not bother with it anymore.

Mining is not rewarding at all comparing to farming from Obelisk especially for the rare ones.

 

 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

19 minutes ago, Jaq. said:

Mining is not rewarding at all comparing to farming from Obelisk especially for the rare ones.

Knowing DE, you shouldn't say stuff like this; because with their track record in mind, they'll just nerf the pillars to be horrid like mining instead of making mining worthwhile lol. 

[Jaq.]

-edited-

[wwarfield]

After completing everything new with Deimos I made a list of things that if added/changed I think would greatly improve the update. Not everything bellow is my idea. ( I also took things from this forum,reddit, youtube, etc). I will try to keep it simple.

 

Bounties:

1. Remove those ayatan stars from rewards. (In endless especially is really bad)
2. Please add a setting: "skip all bounties dialog after the first completion)
3. Fix endless bounty bonus. ( Not sure if it's a bug or as intended but you never get the bonus in endless)
4. Liberation (Keep the area secure for 3 minutes ): reduce the time to 2 minutes and double enemy spawn. 
5. Protect the Corpus Scientist (The collect samples part): increase the drop chance or double the enemy spawn.

Iso Vaults:

1. Make the number of necramechs scale with the number of players in the squad.
2. Allow us to reduce the toxicity level somehow(not just wait for it). We could use those Antitoxin(Gear) that you are supposed to use in Grineer Forest Sabotage Mission. Something like 1 antitoxin = -25% on that timer, and with a full squad -100% ( you just move to the next step).
3. Add 1 Scintilant as a guaranteed drop in the 3rd vault.
4. (Bonus) I would also like to see some variation in the vaults( different missions for the second/third vault).

 

Mining:

1. Add a bounty type mission to Otak (exactly like the endless excavation) that allows us to "mine" for recourses. 
2. Scale the resources up a bit to match the "Requiem Pylons" (Please don't nerf these). Ideea how to do this at 3.
3. Improve the mining drill: Keep just the "Sunpoint Plasma Drill " in the game (since it's just better) and add more "Widgets" for it that would improve it. (Ex: "Yield more resources" - Widget from Plains of Eidolon, "Slower speed for those wite brackets " -Widget from Plains, "Increase the chance for a second rare Gem" -Widget from Deimos, "Reduce the maximum number of "drilling spots" in the mining animation to a max of 2" -Widget from Deimos, etc.) 

 

Conservation:

1. Increase the number of tokens for a "perfect capture" to 2.
2. Improve the "Tranq Rifle" by adding "Widgets" for it. (Ex : "Double flight speed", "Better tranq ammo(no need for second shots)", "Longer tranq time", "Ammo capacity", "Reload speed" , etc.)  

 

Fishing:(don't have a lot of ideas here)

1. Add a small chance (maybe 10%-20%) of getting fish parts when killing them.

[Sojufueled]

I don't know what the precise drop rates are for the Saxum/Jugulus mods, but it's vanishingly low. I've done a whole lot of Deimos and there are 4 of those mods I still don't have (I have hundreds of the easy to get 2). That includes the endless missions which have 2 of them listed as Uncommon rewards.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I decided to work on zaws and deimos pets for mastery yesterday  10/1/2020..  (on ps4).   

You reduced the amount of son tokens it takes to rank up and to convert into granny tokens and you slightly reduced the tags needed for tokens.....

However Son economy is still completely fubar.    Son tokens should only take 1 tag for 1 token.  5 various tags of whatever for 5 tokens.....   Instead you still have Tokens wanting a bazillion animal tags for ONE token.....   that is bullcrap.   

But more importantly I was working on the Deimos pets....  it takes 10 tokens to guild a Deimos pet.   That is completely insane.  It COULD take 100 animal tags to get 10 tokens lol.   It can also take way less but your still talking about farming way harder and longer than for any other pet in the game.   

Zaws take just 2 cetus wisps that you can EASILY get in 5 mins.  

 

[DaLegends]

Seriglass Shards need to cost less Grandmother Tokens

3 Seriglass shards are needed for all the current blueprints that require them, that amount is acceptable.

The issue is how difficult obtaining the tokens to trade for grandmother tokens. Let me give you an example of how broken the system is, and how DE knows it, and after all this time still does nothing.

To rank up with the Entrati, 10 Son, Father, Daughter, Otak Tokens are needed, this was quickly changed to 1 each. 

The only issue is that Grandmother's Oddities were not changed to reflect this massive change.

 

In all honesty, earning Mother, Father, Otak and Daughter Tokens are relatively easy to obtain, and Son Tokens are a huge pain. But this is already a well known fact.

Allow me to explain the main issue in my opinion: (Apologies if the numbers are slightly wrong, I do not know the exact numbers, but this should give you a gist)

First, obviously Son Tokens are required in decent quantities (at least 3 and up to ten) to gain any decent amount of Grandmother tokens.

Second, earning 1 Grandmother Token with 3-10 Son/ Daughter/ Father/ Mother is quite "unreasonable", especially knowing the number you can realistically obtain daily. This makes a limiting factor when it comes to obtaining Grandmother Tokens, the sheer amount of tokens you need.  Again, in isolation. This doesn't seem too bad

Finally, the main issue is that the Shards (which are arguably the most important item from Grandmother) require an extortionist 20 Grandmother Tokens.

If you convert that into Tokens from the other members of the Entrati family. In an approximate best case, lets say 5 Grandmother Tokens need around 10 Mother tokens, 10 Father tokens, 5 Son Tokens and 5 Daughter Tokens.  To get enough for one single shard you would need 40 Mother tokens, 40 Father tokens, 20 Son Tokens and 20 Daughter Tokens. 

Meaning to get all 3 Seriglass Shards required, you would need 120 Mother tokens, 120 Father tokens, 60 Son Tokens and 60 Daughter Tokens. Doesn't that sound absolutely ridiculous? I know at least farming that would not be enjoyable

How about its value in affinity perhaps, 90,000 affinity. That sounds so much more fair than the Token system.  DE, if your new "better" system makes the experience feel less fun, maybe don't do it?

I, personally know for a fact, I would rather have to grind Bounties (which are more fun than forced conservation, fishing, and mining) for 4-5 days, hitting the cap, than to do this.

 

Some constructive advice on how to change the system:

If each Shard only cost around 5 Grandmother Tokens, to get all 3 Shards would only take around 30 Mother tokens, 30 Father tokens, 15 Son Tokens and 15 Daughter Tokens. Which is significantly more reasonable, especially considering the current economics on ranking up.

 

If the community has anything to add, perhaps correct some of my mistakes or add some ideas please comment and I will fix or add the necessary items.

 

 

 

[Electropuncher]

Probably intended by the devs, but oh man are Seriglass Shards a nightmare to grind for. And you need at least one. 20 Grandmother tokens, each one representing 1500 standing. Due to the way the token system works, you really can't control the flow of them, and you're time gated on how many you can get. I basically spent ten in-game hours doing Deimos odds and ends, even making a Greedy Xaku to help alleviate some of the grind, and if you need Fass/Vome Residue and it's not time for it to spawn, you're just stuck. Same if you need specific fish that only spawn in the correct worm time. But, a day after I started, I finally have my one shard. Now I need 3 more (Quassus, Sepulchra, and actually maxing Entrati). At least (as of right now) they aren't really used for much, but wow, did it feel like an eternity getting them.

But this leads me into my next point: The trade-ins for tokens are just plain annoying. Worse, for comparable work, they don't offer anything close to the same level of standing as previous open worlds. Perfect captures vs bad captures on wildlife have no point, so there's no reason not to just spam tranqs while running them down, other than how terrible the tranq rifle actually is. Otak's token yields are exceptionally disappointing compared to Smokefinger's rep gains for top tier gems. Not to mention I'm convinced Thaumica just doesn't exist except for when the planets align. Daughter's fish guts requirements (while getting rolled back in tomorrow's patch) still require a surprising amount of effort just to get, and you'll frequently find yourself one shy of the amount you need. That may be my luck talking. And we all know how goofy Son's requirements are. To make matters worse, there's no "evergreen" trade to make, so you're stuck with luck of the draw every hour. I know this was done to prevent players from basically doing nothing but farming Ganglion and handing them into Father for a fat payday of tokens, but it seems like this was a serious design error. Why not just make the trade in be dramatically higher, seeing as how you can easily get well over a hundred by focusing on gathering them.

Mother tokens, by and large, are the best bang for your temporal buck. They're effortless to get (bounties aren't hard, just time consuming), and you get 100-standing tokens by the dozen at low levels and by the fistful at higher ones. I also really don't see why Steel Path bounties don't have unique rewards, but that's another problem entirely. You can also totally luck out and literally just FIND tokens in the wild, but I've only seen this happen once on launch week. 

And I can't remember if I've posted it in this thread already, but there's nothing to buy at max rank, preventing me from going for it. Other than lore, a fish I can hang on my wall, and a diorama setup, I have no reason to max this out. I know kitguns are coming (and hopefully the Plague zaw bits find a home here too, it still bugs me that there are no Ostron kitguns or Solaris zaws), and hopefully with them we get some new arcanes, but as it stands, (29.1, about to be 29.2 on consoles) there is literally nothing to do. I don't really care about Captura, I can't stand fishing trophies (except boots), and I really don't play this game for the lore (I'm not a fan of it, but the gameplay is generally some of my favorite). Worse still, your Youtube partners spoil anything months before I even get to touch it, so why should I care about rep-gated content that I can just watch in much higher fidelity than on a Nintendo Switch? These rewards feel very light, and worse still is that there's no real reason to come back, as only gems and Father's mods can be traded.

[shootaman777]

So anyways, we oughta take some of the RNG out of the pricing for Entrati tokens. Here's an example of how moronic it can be, sometimes:

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2020-09-27 at 11:15 AM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

It was already boring to get the hunt requirement to reach lvl 3 of entrati standing... just to figure out that you need to do even more to gild your new pets, and that many grand'ma tokens require son tokens too...

It's not that the token system is bad, it's just that the whole farming imply boring activities that doesn't even reward anything but tokens (not even Endo, relics, credits, etc).

well, i'm not so totally bored by or annoyed by hunting, but after 2 months drift the hunt for 'selected' targets is still awfully bugged in many ways. not only are many of the startpoints not usable (due to them being inside the environment) or they tracks from them will disappear even while you right on top of them (not that making the whole thing gone just because you happen to venture away for a 100 meter - maybe because you just spottet some other hunting targets...) no then there still those little fliers who will just appear inside some rocks - yes, that still happens a lot! not to mention the targets getting attcked by enemies who appear out of thin air right when you're readdy to fire the tranq - and i don't just mean the bloody glassed ones, though this sure is annoying as well but at least it will be over soon. topping on this cake: quite often 'filtering' out specific targets will not the the ones that are displayed on the map - oh, and don't even try to do this while in AW-mode, for it doesn't work at all from there (why though?)... no i mean the normal way by selecting the lure and then open the map... in addition to this point, i often had even different call points then i had the tracks leading to them!

all in all, the selected hunting is a big mess an no fun at all with those bugs and glitches - add to it the far to small number of points per instance and the tracks being even harder to spot in some areas then we had in orb valis and it's no wonder why there are so many negative commends about it... and lets not forget the costs for gilding the animals versus the time we need to get the damn tokens even if we had captured hundereds of beasts (meaning the RNG and the timer involved in sons store).

that said, the 'free' hunt in the drift is quite nice even though it's very random (or it seeems like it) more instance to instance. also the color of the beasts (on the map) should be different to real enemies - idk how many times i shot them before i could  spot them (or got yelled at from either son or team mates ^^)  btw: i still not spotted any aviacheas n the 'wild' without using the 'selected' method (and those are, like i said very buggy).

[DaviTheShadow]

I think increasing the Thaumica drop rates is one of the farming top concerns, you can gather more then 100 rare gems but only about 12 thaumica from mining? Pylons should not be obligated, since many players dont really have access to them

[Bathynomus]

The token system is just messy, and annoyingly grindy. I'd much rather get the standing like in previous open world locations, than having to fiddle with the tokens. Also 20 grandmother tokens to build any of the new weapons? That's just nuts.

 

Also the matrixes are stupidly random, seeing how many you need to rank the necraloid.

[Grave.Knight]

The Isolation Vault Bounty should have three enemy Necramechs regardless of tier. Tier 1 Necramechs are already weaker than Tier 2 and Tier 3, furthermore with there only being one Necramech it greatly reduces mod drop chances compared to Tier 3 with three Necramechs.

[Alpacko]

we desperately need a buy all option 4 tokens. thx.

[NeroPrime13]

More shooting less farming, this game is becoming a snoozer....
Came here to shoot bads, not rocks and fish.

[moondog548]

5 common avichea tags might as well be a thousand.

[vanaukas]

It's possible to add retroactively the token system to Cetus and Fortuna? Because that system is a game changer in every possible way, because even with daily standing cap, the freedom it gives for player with limited time is honestly priceless.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2020-11-15 at 2:29 AM, vanaukas said:

It's possible to add retroactively the token system to Cetus and Fortuna? Because that system is a game changer in every possible way, because even with daily standing cap, the freedom it gives for player with limited time is honestly priceless.

What do you think the bonds system in Fortuna is? 

[vanaukas]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

What do you think the bonds system in Fortuna is? 

The bond ystem works drastically different than this. You can't farm bonds in the weay we can right now, it's tied to rng OR dumping resources, while in Deimos you know how many bonds you'll get for playtime (in case of endless missions) or based on the bounty tier from Mother (You can dump in resources too, with Grandmother and with almost every family member except Mother).

So, what's your point if we can't really compare them?

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

27 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

The bond ystem works drastically different than this. You can't farm bonds in the weay we can right now, it's tied to rng OR dumping resources, while in Deimos you know how many bonds you'll get for playtime (in case of endless missions) or based on the bounty tier from Mother (You can dump in resources too, with Grandmother and with almost every family member except Mother).

So, what's your point if we can't really compare them?

Aside from mother tokens, bonds are a token system. Buy them with resources. Turn in for standing. Biz doesn't require a token system. It's better the way it is now unless they do the token system properly for conservation. 

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Aside from mother tokens, bonds are a token system. Buy them with resources. Turn in for standing.

?

I'm asking for the DEIMOS system to replace the current bond system in Fortuna and the Ostron system. The current system in Fortuna doesn't have anything to do with the Deimos system, as* I've already tried to explain you in the last post.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

25 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

?

I'm asking for the DEIMOS system to replace the current bond system in Fortuna and the Ostron system. The current system in Fortuna doesn't have anything to do with the Deimos system, as* I've already tried to explain you in the last post.

Your original post was asking for the addition of the token system to Vallis. Vallis has that already is what I'm saying. You really want biz to work like son? 

[vanaukas]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Your original post was asking for the addition of the token system to Vallis. Vallis has that already is what I'm saying. You really want biz to work like son? 

Yes, I want everything from Deimos new system to be retroactivelly added to the others open worlds, it's clearly the superior choice for me.