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Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread


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33 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:
  • Son tokens are way overpriced. No way I'm hunting ten beasts for 1 token. Also sucks that it requires a specific rarity of beast and not any beast of said family... I mean, c'mon, even with pheromones it's a gamble which beast you'll be getting, making the grind even longer.
  • Really hard to figure out fishing. All fishes look the same, you can't see their names when you point your spear at them, not clear where each of them spawn, every time I find a lake or river in a a cave there's zero fishes there, bait descriptions are also not helping... Only found three types of fishes so far.. Really confused on how to get the rest. Tbh gets really confusing when you have fishes, animals, enemies, terrain that all look like gooey infested stuff... Maybe highlight stuff better so you can quickly tell at a glance it's a fish and not a flying enemy.
  • While I appreciate the fact you can accrue a stockpile of each tokens so you can spend them gradually to reach the cap, it's still somewhat confusing and counter-intuitive.... Plus having to constantly warp back and forth between vendor to check refreshing token lists is annoying... Plus there's no way to "hide uncraftable tokens", meaning I have to check them one by one to see the amount of each things and if I have them. Also, why not put token exchange on Mother instead of grandma, annoying to have to go see grandma every time you need to spend a couple tokens even though she's an endgame cosmetic vendor / kdrive chick...
  • Speaking of it, why is it always so hard to display the cost of stuff like tokens... Why not just write something like (Requires 4 Clem Butts (65 Owned)... instead of that weird 65/12 stuff.
  • Exchange rates for everyone else than mother are too low to make it a viable thing imho...I'm not gutting fishes , mining and hunting for hours then sacrificing all that I've looted for very little standing. If anything these tokens should be worth more than mother tokens, since you're actually sacrificing stuff you farmed to get them...
  • Many of the ressources needed to craft aren't dropping from bounties even though they are supposed to be common... Why not remove all these filler 500 endo and 10000 credits stuff and actually give us the crafting mats we need to craft the new stuff and rank up ?
  • Requiring mandatory tokens for each family member to rank up is kinda annoying. Not a huge fan of hunting and fishing yet I've been constantly forced to hunt due to how the progression system is made. Lemme play what I want and get standing and rank up that way.

I was just on a fault run with you and I logged off to come say the same thing.  This is a bad first impression of this update.  I am honestly only p,aging right now to get the standing in HOPES they come to their senses and give options or remove the mandatory conservation because, if they don't, I'm not going to play big game hunterframe to get to the actual part of the content I wanted in this update.  I'll just go play RDR2 and enjoy it more. 

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Things to do instead of Heart of Deimos.

1) Alt+F4 and play a different game

2) Wait for DE to fix this garbage standing requirements

3) Literally anything else. Clean the house, do some laundry, fix your car. Double check your taxes. All of those are more fun than doing Heart of Deimos

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Wonder if they realize this added grind will not keep players in Deimos but will lead to a ton of burned out players that don't touch Deimos or any other part of the game?

And it would be very nice to have some developer feedback about the several hundreds of posts about this grind instead of just on sound bugs.

Instead of fixing daughter or any other npc just make bounty npc talk a whole lot less to help with missions.

Edited by RyuhoTheDragon
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A couple observations after a few hours of playing:

- Scintillant drop rate is abysmal and completely off the mark compared to any other resource in Deimos - in 5+ hours of bounties I've had only 1 Scintillant as they seem to be only a bounty reward. Where the drop rate balancing issue becomes very apparent is the Father Token conversion rate, you have things that require anywhere from 3-8 scintillants giving 2-5 Father Tokens for what is essentially hours upon hours of farming. While some of the other conversion choices are 1-2 tokens for a couple minutes of work.

- Son Token conversion rates seem to have missed the mark as well, as you're looking at massive time investment compared to most of the other tokens in form of requiring excessive amount of captures per token.

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This token system is HORRENDOUS, i've already lost 2 hours of my playtime (because you know, some of us got a life out there...) fishing, and mining, my first experience with this update made me alt+f4, i am so frustrated, i don't even want to restart warframe after my work tomorrow.

This is not grinding, this is litteraly SLAVERY, and if you don't managed to get through this, well guess what ? You don't have access to the content.

Mindblowing how little thoughts are put into this game.

Edited by Kim-Pine
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21 hours ago, Voltage said:

This forced requirement to do conservation and mining is straight up bad. Let me do bounties and play Warframe to progress syndicates, not fishing, conservation, mining, or spending Platinum (to buy fish parts/gems/ores) to get these dumb tokens.

Remove Tokens

Remove Grandmother

Make this like PoE/Fortuna with multiple avenues for progression and just use standing. Stuffing non-combat activities down players' throats isn't fun.

Agreed 100%

Im fine doing one or two of these mini-games for progression but making it like the main focus of the whole faction is just horrible. 

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I dont know if anybody discussed it yet but if u try to build an Antigen or an Mutagen for ur Kavat/Kubrow u cant build it because u need a resource that cant be obtained right know called Fass Residue with an Otak Token as the Icon! I swear i have almost every resource of the Cambian Drift only Scintillant is the one missing the rest i have and i still cant make Antigen or an Mutagen and i dont even now how to get Scintillant

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10 minutes ago, xombob89 said:

Agreed 100%

Im fine doing one or two of these mini-games for progression but making it like the main focus of the whole faction is just horrible. 

Yeah, I m going to go on record and say right now- please don't give us any more open world's because, well, we don't need 12 variations of the same mining, fishing, and hunting simulator.  We have it. We have mined and fished and hunted our guts out.   We are over it.

I can't imagine that DE looks at the numbers, sees that hardly anyone spends time getting the trophy for hunting, reads how so many people say it doesn't fit in the game, and then uses that info to say "well, we will just make it a core part of the game and use it to block the one actual thing everyone said they were wanting.  It's like they are trying to run the game into the ground. 

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Like most things the token system is one step forward three huge leaps back.

Moms tokens are perfect. Her family however is insane. I see why she hates them.

Son is way overturned, dude wants you to pick the island clean for a bundle, not to mention with the overtly aggressive infested and the new flying enemies that just spawn wherever you are, conservation is a nightmare and rage inducing. 

Father wants 3-8 of the rarest item in this expansion that can only come from bounties or very rarely vault runs. 

Daughter isn't terrible after vault runs but wildly inconsistent.

The structure needs a major nerf, and the tokens needs to be consistent for this to be a step forward. Instead of the roll of the dice for what the family wants, just make it "10 of this gets you one token and this rare capture gets you this bundle" instead of this debt bond 2.0 nonsense.

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3 minutes ago, zorn-des-zen said:

I dont know if anybody discussed it yet but if u try to build an Antigen or an Mutagen for ur Kavat/Kubrow u cant build it because u need a resource that cant be obtained right know called Fass Residue with an Otak Token as the Icon! I swear i have almost every resource of the Cambian Drift only Scintillant is the one missing the rest i have and i still cant make Antigen or an Mutagen and i dont even now how to get Scintillant

I picked up case residue on the ground out there..

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I'm enjoying it quite a bit so far! Some thoughts on the tokens/rewards.

Mother token rewards from bounties feel good as is. Father tokens are alright when trading very common resources, but do not seem at all worth it to trade other resources. The requirements for converting mining/fishing/conservation rewards to tokens are very steep, particularly with conservation/Son tokens. As is, the only viable option for gaining standing with the Entrati is to do bounties and turn in Mother tokens, and acquire other tokens only when required for ranking up. No other path to standing gain seems doable at the moment. I personally enjoy doing fishing/mining/conservation as paths to standing gain, so I'd love to see them become more on par with PoE/Orb Vallis standing gains.

Some other notes on the token system/rewards:

  • It really wasn't clear how to turn tokens into standing at first. I only figured it out upon realizing I wasn't sure what Grandmother offered, and should go check with her to find that functionality.
  • The UI for exchanging things for tokens is also a bit clunky, as it's not clear which current trades have their requirements met, and which do not. Maybe trades which are immediately doable should be first in the listings and highlighted, while unmet ones are faded out slightly and placed at the end.
  • Unsure if this belongs here exactly, but credit caches from bounties seem like bloat more than anything. The slot may be better used for resources specific to the Cambion Drift or something like that.

 

Edited by visorlights
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after having played with the systems for a few hours and exchanging tokens from father daughter and son, my opinion is, son and daughter ad OVERLY complicated the mini games are what they are, love or hate them, but there are far to many variables at play for them, in my opinion, it should simply be, when you capture a animal, or cut fish, you get son or daughter tokens respectively at an amount that would require balancing, father seems to require mats in general and Otak/Loid seems to want you to mine, i haven't tried mining yet so i cannot speak about that, however from what I've read, some of the rare mats don't seem to be worth trading in for father tokens for any reason other then to rank up

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Tell me when you will balance the game making this  a real game, without op weapons, OP abilities, OP frames and stupid enemies, then i will probably restart to play.

If i had to just click 4 or E to win, i played a click game and if i liked farming games i played farmville.

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I have a suggestion for Son and the overall economy of conservation in the Cambion Drift. I think doing an animal conservation should give rep+tags directly as every other conservation, with the rep increasing with the quality of the capture. Tokens should stay though, but with a slightly different aquisition (less restrictive). I personally reach a point in every open world where I don't want any more floofs. Son Tokens are a perfect way to get something useful out of spare tags (Granma decorations or more standing for example). Keep up the good work!

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I like the ability to stockpile tokens, I do not like the way the tokens are for each individual 'person' or the systems in place for acquiring said tokens..

You've essentially stuck tokens behind a time/grind wall where you can only buy each 'offer' once and you might not be able to buy others because you don't have or can't get the resources required for the others.... in essence the worst part of tickers system which this is based on.  The system works with ticker because it uses our stockpiled resources, it does not work in a location we have no resources from. 

I also don't like the way everything is now 'mission' based and the rewards are ludicrously low compared with other 'open worlds'.

I don't like the fact I'm basically being 'forced' to do things I don't like, like fishing, conservation and mining to level up....

It really does feel (especially if you include the 'bugs' like low fps and stuff inside geometry) that you didn't even play test this before release and/or you have specifically set this low to make us go back more and give you more time to 'catch up' with what you are behind on.... honestly these choices are making me NOT want to bother with the new map.

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Give us alternative ways to progress without the dreaded conservation. Almost no one likes animals being mandatory - this absolutely needs a change.

Xaku should not require a part from maxed Fortuna to be crafted.

Scintillant droprate is broken, its incredibly hard to obtain yet some things cost several.

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2 minutes ago, BardianAngel said:

I feel like I'm getting rares from the bounties far more than i'm getting uncommons. I can't prove this is a bug, so I'm putting it here, but could someone please check the drop tables are working correctly?

I felt the same way, but I haven't done enough bounties to be sure If I am a decent sample size. 

I got Quassus on my first, then Argon Scope. Still only two Xaku pieces... idk. Uncommons definitely seem more rares than rares to me but I'm a small sample size. 

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7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I felt the same way, but I haven't done enough bounties to be sure If I am a decent sample size. 

I got Quassus on my first, then Argon Scope. Still only two Xaku pieces... idk. Uncommons definitely seem more rares than rares to me but I'm a small sample size. 

I'm sat here with 9 nano applicators and 1 uncommon from the 2nd bounty. It sure doesn't feel like the xaku parts are uncommon.

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Correct me if im wrong: the only way to rank up Necraloid Standing is by repeating the same quest from mother, wich have three parts of "wait here for X time" and one fight, see if you got the right item and repeat it. 
If the answer is yes i will have to start considering that when DE said they dont want grindy and repetitive content was all a joke. 

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Son token conversion is way too high, and it seems to be the only entrati not giving an option to buy one of his token for ressources you could find without practicing in his activities (daugther ressources can be found in the world, same for every other entrati). This is a HUGE funkiller for me. I did not participate in conservation on the others open world cause it was boring, still is. And making it mandatory is... not a very nice move to say the least.

 

Also, I did not saw any place other than mother bounties where it is possible to have scintillant and damaged nekramech parts. Could they be made drops in the world?

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