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Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread


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Just now, Cerikus said:

I will bet all my platinum that we will get more ways to get them, when we need them. ūüėȬ†

The same issue was with toroids when fortuna released. Everybody was complaining and everybody was wrong.

I agree about people overreacting about Toroids but Scintillants are an issue NOW. I've done multiple vaults and I have yet to see a single one.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are reducing the number of Son Tokens in a near Hotfix. Thanks all! 

 

I am not sure what part of the majority of players do not enjoy fishing, mining and conservation, is not clicking. The tokens need to be removed.

If not, create a system like Ticker from Fortuna. This way we can exchange bounty tokens with other tokens. I want to play "warframe" not "fishing," "hunting" or "mining" simulators. 

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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On 2020-08-25 at 5:03 PM, Voltage said:

This forced requirement to do conservation and mining is straight up bad. Let me do bounties and play Warframe to progress syndicates, not fishing, conservation, mining, or spending Platinum (to buy fish parts/gems/ores) to get these dumb tokens.

Remove Tokens

Remove Grandmother

Make this like PoE/Fortuna with multiple avenues for progression and just use standing. Stuffing non-combat activities down players' throats isn't fun.

The tokens are not really the issue and are a good idea, however they are implemented in such a poor way for certain aspects that it has me raging inside.  Being able to farm bounties when you have time and then cash in the standing is great and a step forward.  Why they didn't keep it as simple as that in regards to fishing and conservation is beyond reason.  Had they kept things simple where you catch a fish you get a token, you catch a rare fish you get more tokens, and have it work likewise for conservation it would have kept what Fortuna delivered and made it just as user friendly as bounties where you can cash the tokens in as needed.  

As it stands it is just a ridiculous unbalanced time sink that is killing the game for me.  As mentioned earlier it is no longer something I can play at my own pace it has become a checklist style of gaming, to put it bluntly a list of chores.  No longer an enjoyable break from combat, just another task at hand that must be grinded through in order to be completed for progression.

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1 minute ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

Conservation, mining and fishing NEEDS to be O P T I O N A L not MANDATORY, why? simply because all of those things have NOTHING to do with any other aspect of the syndicates, conservation is nigh impossible due to the nature of diemos, the same goes for fishing, and then there's the CONSTANT interruptions during mining AGAIN due to the nature of diemos, and the tokens? the need to be REMOVED for they serve NO PRACTICAL PURPOSE, outside of ranking up with the syndicates, wich to be fair, only the mother tokens should be eligible for that anyway, all-in-all, conservation bad, NPC necramechs need nerf to electro shield and buff to drops, mining and fishing should be VERY OPTIONAL.

You can run the isolation vault (When its not bugged) for all the resources as far as I can tell except the tags. Which are one of the most actively earnable resource (By fine tuning your results with lures etc.) I do think there needs to be something to gaurentee son tokens without conservation. Perhaps a daily quest by him to hunt an animal. 

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree about tokens being useless. Tokens allow you to farm any amount of standing on any given day without wasting standing, you simply just have to wait for cap to reset. If the tokens aren't there, grinding for the items is going to waste the standing. I haven't had any problems getting excess tokens from any family member except the son (because I've actively avoided conservation after getting what I needed for some companions and finding out they're bugged). Tokens are fantastic and I wish they'd replace standing rewards in every open world. 

 

Side note: I personally feel grandmother should offer the entire families tokens and not just her own. Giving people the ability to fine tune their grind and avoid what they least like while still needing some form of grind. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are reducing the number of Son Tokens in a near Hotfix. Thanks all! 

 

That's a good first step but absolutely everything about son tokens is awful.

 

Want standing? The best conversion rate is 1 creature :1 token so even the rarest creature on deimos is only worth 500 standing, or 750 if you wait around for the chance to convert to grandmother tokens. A common pobber is 400 and they come in packs of 3.

Want floofs? You have to sacrifice the tiny amount of standing animals give you since you can either turn tags into floofs or son tokens.

 

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

You unlock the Sepulcrum at rank 2 in Entrati - however, you can't actually craft it until rank 3 because it requires a rank 3 item:

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XwmCvON.jpg

you can actually get that ore as a drop from doing isolation vaults.

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5 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

You can run the isolation vault (When its not bugged) for all the resources as far as I can tell except the tags. Which are one of the most actively earnable resource (By fine tuning your results with lures etc.) I do think there needs to be something to gaurentee son tokens without conservation. Perhaps a daily quest by him to hunt an animal. 

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree about tokens being useless. Tokens allow you to farm any amount of standing on any given day without wasting standing, you simply just have to wait for cap to reset. If the tokens aren't there, grinding for the items is going to waste the standing. I haven't had any problems getting excess tokens from any family member except the son (because I've actively avoided conservation after getting what I needed for some companions and finding out they're bugged). Tokens are fantastic and I wish they'd replace standing rewards in every open world. 

 

Side note: I personally feel grandmother should offer the entire families tokens and not just her own. Giving people the ability to fine tune their grind and avoid what they least like while still needing some form of grind. 

I agree regarding the tokens, ONLY, if they can obtained through bounties. ALL TOKENS. And not locked to the level 10-40 bounties. Cuz nothing makes me hate playing a game more than having to play content that I receive zero damage while playing and can clear a mile radius in one hit.

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From what I'm gathering (because Nintendo was 2 days slow on cert) most of the problem is the wonky exchange rates and drop rates.

But I've said it before, DE might be good at many things, but numbers ain't one of em, Railjack economy flashbacks are hitting me hard.

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Deimos conservation is, for a lack of better term, terribad. 

Especially the birds (Common Avichea iirc). The turd on the far west does not spawn any tracks. The bird spawns Hek knows where when you finally stumble into that nest. And the best part? It's likely to be butchered by local fauna and/or despawns before it even shows up on your radar. To add insult to injury, there's usually a grand total of ONE bird spawn point on the entire map, because hey, that's the animal that keeps you from getting rank 3 with Entrati, let's reduce its spawn count! Also, seeing tag requirements for Son's tokens is depression-inducing. 

 

Fishing is worse than either PoE or Fortuna - most "fish" have wonky hitboxes, and tend to swim into rocks/solid ground a lot more than you'd want them to. Not enjoyable. 

Mining is... Okay, I guess? Too bad a noticeable number of ore/gem deposits spawn with invisible nodes you can't see no matter the angle. UI hint was a nice touch, but it wouldn't hurt to up its range. 

 

So, out of the three one is painfully bad, the other is just bad and one is almost OK with enough potential to be completely OK with some diligent fixing. Overall result is... Disappointing. 

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23 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

mining and fishing NEEDS to be O P T I O N A L not MANDATORY

- All of it is already mandatory on plains and in fortuna. This is how this content is. It's as if you went to complain that you don't like that you have to craft potions in Witcher.

23 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

because all of those things have NOTHING to do with any other aspect of the syndicates

- All of it gives components for other things you get from the syndicates (Xaku, weapons, Helminth segment, mechs)

23 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

conservation is nigh impossible due to the nature of diemos

- I have 0 problems with it. I don't wanna do "git gud", but maybe you are doing something wrong.

23 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

same goes for fishing

- Same as conservation

23 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

they serve NO PRACTICAL PURPOSE

UNTRUE. The tokens ARE AMAZING. Why?

1) Since you get redeemable tokens, you are not tied to your daily standing limit. You can play 5 hours in one day and if you don't have time next few days, you can just login and redeem them.
2) If you are willing to do all aspects of Deimos, you can exchange the tokes for Grandma's tokens and get more standing as a REWARD for doing more.
3) Token's are more meaningful than just a number on a counter.
4) It helps to tie in the story of the family. You are doing tasks for each of them and they reward you with THEIR own tokens (because they are thinking only about themselves). While Grandma is trying to reunite the family. She is the "middleman".

The system is functionally and thematicly an improvement. Period.

Edited by Cerikus
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There needs to be alternative to the minigames.

I would be happy to grind 10x more faction / mother tokens than I would be to spend 45 minutes fishing.  I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

I got to rank 2, and now that I see rank 3 requires an absurd amount of taming, I'm just going to spend a few day away and not play the new content.  This seems counterproductive to the purpose of releasing new content.  If I see a huge reduction or perhaps a shift to rank 2 for the helmith, then i'll come back.

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20 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

I agree about people overreacting about Toroids but Scintillants are an issue NOW. I've done multiple vaults and I have yet to see a single one.

It kinda is all about the mindset with which you do the game. 

You are NOT supposed to grind vault runs until for the Scintillants you lose your mind. BUT if you do the run, you have a chance to get them.

If you want to grind them do bounty 2, that's a better way, but again...

I have 2 now (I didn't grind for them, just casually played), so I am 17% done with it after 2 days. that means I will be finished in 10 days. 

If that is not reasonable, I don't understand anything anymore.

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10 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

- All of it is already mandatory on plains and in fortuna. This is how this content is. It's as if you went to complain that you don't like that you have to craft potions in Witcher.

- All of it gives components for other things you get from the syndicates (Xaku, weapons, Helminth segment, mechs)

- I have 0 problems with it. I don't wanna do "git gud", but maybe you are doing something wrong.

- Same as conservation

UNTRUE. The tokens ARE AMAZING. Why?

1) Since you get redeemable tokens, you are not tied to your daily standing limit. You can play 5 hours in one day and if you don't have time next few days, you can just login and redeem them.
2) If you are willing to do all aspects of Deimos, you can exchange the tokes for Grandma's tokens and get more standing as a REWARD for doing more.
3) Token's are more meaningful than just a number on a counter.
4) It helps to tie in the story of the family. You are doing tasks for each of them and they reward you with THEIR own tokens (because they are thinking only about themselves). While Grandma is trying to reunite the family. She is the "middleman".

The system is functionally and thematicly an improvement. Period.

This is absolutely false. You can reach max level with PoE and Vallis while never touching any of the side stuff. You only do that stuff to create additional items. 

Example, you only mine on the Plains to create zaws. You do not want a zaw? You do not need to mine. Same with fishing. You only need it for AMPS. I have never done a single conservation in the PoE. None of that is needed to level the syndicates.

I have only done few conversations in Vallis. I rarely ever mine (only for NW, and only when I feel like it). I have only fished 3 times for NW. And I have max rank with Solaris. I just do bounties. Which is what is requested. 

Leveling syndicates should never require anything but playing bounties. 

And I have never crafted potions in the Witcher unless it was required by the mission. Not that this has any relevance. I do not do crafting or any f*****g boring side activities in any game. I play games to be entertained. 

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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Just now, Cerikus said:

It kinda is all about the mindset with which you do the game. 

You are NOT supposed to grind vault runs until for the Scintillants you lose your mind. BUT if you do the run, you have a chance to get them.

If you want to grind them do bounty 2, that's a better way, but again...

I have 2 now (I didn't grind for them, just casually played), so I am 17% done with it after 2 days. that means I will be finished in 10 days. 

If that is not reasonable, I don't understand anything anymore.

A chance that seems to be minuscule considering after 12 attempts I have yet to see even one. That seems to be a tad absurd in a game revolving around loot.

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3 minutes ago, Clowee said:

There needs to be alternative to the minigames.

I would be happy to grind 10x more faction / mother tokens than I would be to spend 45 minutes fishing.  I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

I got to rank 2, and now that I see rank 3 requires an absurd amount of taming, I'm just going to spend a few day away and not play the new content.  This seems counterproductive to the purpose of releasing new content.  If I see a huge reduction or perhaps a shift to rank 2 for the helmith, then i'll come back.

Vault runs give you a decent amount of almost ALL resources (mining/fishing).

There already IS an alternative.

As far as the conservation goes.

Predasites and Vulpaphylas are found randomly around the landscape and you DON'T need to tranq them. You can just shoot them with a gun. It's quick and easy.

The few catches you need to do with the bird is going to take like 10 minutes. If you cannot be bother to do that, do not play openworlds.

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3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

It kinda is all about the mindset with which you do the game. 

You are NOT supposed to grind vault runs until for the Scintillants you lose your mind. BUT if you do the run, you have a chance to get them.

If you want to grind them do bounty 2, that's a better way, but again...

I have 2 now (I didn't grind for them, just casually played), so I am 17% done with it after 2 days. that means I will be finished in 10 days. 

If that is not reasonable, I don't understand anything anymore.

Keep in mind I havent even been trying to get them, just trying to rank up in Necraloids and get Necramech parts.

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4 hours ago, AltheusVI said:

I think you should shift the helminth segment down to rank 1 or 2 and take out any requirement to engage with conservation to craft it, essentially, remove the requirement to grind through the conservation bits of open world to get to the bit of the update that was heavily hyped and anticipated. (I suspect a lot of people would bypass the whole open world and go straight for the helminth, I think you should let them).

Lots of people don't like mining, fishing and especially conservation. I don't mind mining or fishing, and I will do casual conservation but I won't touch the business with the lures, EVEN IF that means that I don't get to play with helminth and transferring powers about.

If this remains mandatory you're going to get people grudgingly doing the bare minimum that they have to to get the segment and then never setting foot on deimos again because they associate it with content they don't want to play.

If you were to sell the helminth segment for 500 platinum or even cash I bet you'd make a shedload of cash.

 

TL:DR Don't make me do conservation to get my hands on the helminth segment.

I wish I could make"like" this twice.  It is exactly what 90% of the frustration is about and could be remedied.  You are exactly right about how some people will just say forget it (and there is nothing worse than high anticipation followed by huge let down in a game...makes a lot of people quit when they know they can't achieve what they wanted to play).  

You are also right about how the other part of players will do it but then will leave the world as a ghost town, never to return.  

It's your move, DE.  I hope you are reading because this is bigger than you may think.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

This is absolutely false. You can reach max level with PoE and Vallis while never touching any of the side stuff. You only do that stuff to create additional items. 

Example, you only mine on the Plains to create zaws. You do not want a zaw? You do not need to mine. Same with fishing. You only need it for AMPS. I have never done a single conservation in the PoE. None of that is needed to level the syndicates.

I have only done few conversations in Vallis. I rarely ever mine (only for NW, and only when I feel like it). I have only fished 3 times for NW. And I have max rank with Solaris. I just do bounties. Which is what is requested. 

Leveling syndicates should never require anything but playing bounties. 

LIE

OSTRON:
RANK 1: Nistlepod 25, Iradite 25, Grokdrul 25
RANK 2: Tear Azurite 10, Pyrol 40, Fish Scales 60
RANK 3: Cetus wisp, Maprico 5
RANK 4: Maprico 10, Fersteel Alloy 40, Murkray Liver 5
RANK 5: Nyth, Sentrium, Norg BRain, Cuthol Tendrils

SOLARIS UNITED
RANK 1: 13 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 2: 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 12 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 3: 10 Training Debt-bonds, 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 13 Medical Debt-bonds
RANK 4: 13 Advances Debt-bonds, 10 Medical Debt-bonds, 12 Shelter Debt-bonds
RANK 5: 12 Advances Debt-bonds, 12 Medical Debt-bonds, 10 Familial Debt-bonds

Where Debt-bonds were bought from Ticker for various resources:

5,000-350,000¬†Credits64‚Äć
0-16,000 Alloy Plate
0-36 Axidrol Alloy
0-15 Brickie Muon Battery
0-4,000 Circuits
0-5,000 Cryotic
0-10 Echowinder Anoscopic Sensor
0-10 Eye-Eye Rotoblade
0-15,000 Ferrite
0-20 Goblite Tears
0-12 Gorgaricus Spore
0-17 Heart Noctrul
0-3 Kriller Thermal Laser
0-10 Mirewinder Parallel Biode
0-15 Mytocardia Spore
0-15,000 Nano Spores
0-3 Neurodes
0-3,000 Oxium
0-4,000 Plastids
0-4,000 Polymer Bundle
0-10 Recaster Neural Relay
0-4,000 Rubedo
0-24 Sapcaddy Venedo Case
0-10 Scrubber Exa Brain
0-15,000 Salvage
0-16 Smooth Phasmin
0-5 Tepa Nodule
0-12 Thermal Sludge
0-10 Tink Dissipator Coil
0-44 Travocyte Alloy
0-20 Venerdo Alloy
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1 minute ago, Cerikus said:

Vault runs give you a decent amount of almost ALL resources (mining/fishing).

There already IS an alternative.

As far as the conservation goes.

Predasites and Vulpaphylas are found randomly around the landscape and you DON'T need to tranq them. You can just shoot them with a gun. It's quick and easy.

The few catches you need to do with the bird is going to take like 10 minutes. If you cannot be bother to do that, do not play openworlds.

I almost do not play open world at all. Bounties are not fun. Fishing, hunting and mining are unplayable. But guess what? Major game content is locked behind it. 

 

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1 minute ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

Keep in mind I havent even been trying to get them, just trying to rank up in Necraloids and get Necramech parts.

Yes, same for me. I might have been lucky, but I farmed the vaults a lot for the rewards. (not scintillant)

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1 minute ago, Jim22 said:

yup

Interesting.

Nevertheless, since the Trumna doesn't have the problem, I'm still fairly sure this was an accident. Not that it'll help me anyway, since I'm just off getting Helminth Segment and Necramech blueprint capability in rank-ups, but still, for future player's sake.

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17 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

LIE

OSTRON:
RANK 1: Nistlepod 25, Iradite 25, Grokdrul 25
RANK 2: Tear Azurite 10, Pyrol 40, Fish Scales 60
RANK 3: Cetus wisp, Maprico 5
RANK 4: Maprico 10, Fersteel Alloy 40, Murkray Liver 5
RANK 5: Nyth, Sentrium, Norg BRain, Cuthol Tendrils

SOLARIS UNITED
RANK 1: 13 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 2: 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 12 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 3: 10 Training Debt-bonds, 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 13 Medical Debt-bonds
RANK 4: 13 Advances Debt-bonds, 10 Medical Debt-bonds, 12 Shelter Debt-bonds
RANK 5: 12 Advances Debt-bonds, 12 Medical Debt-bonds, 10 Familial Debt-bonds

Where Debt-bonds were bought from Ticker for various resources:

5,000-350,000¬†Credits64‚Äć
0-16,000 Alloy Plate
0-36 Axidrol Alloy
0-15 Brickie Muon Battery
0-4,000 Circuits
0-5,000 Cryotic
0-10 Echowinder Anoscopic Sensor
0-10 Eye-Eye Rotoblade
0-15,000 Ferrite
0-20 Goblite Tears
0-12 Gorgaricus Spore
0-17 Heart Noctrul
0-3 Kriller Thermal Laser
0-10 Mirewinder Parallel Biode
0-15 Mytocardia Spore
0-15,000 Nano Spores
0-3 Neurodes
0-3,000 Oxium
0-4,000 Plastids
0-4,000 Polymer Bundle
0-10 Recaster Neural Relay
0-4,000 Rubedo
0-24 Sapcaddy Venedo Case
0-10 Scrubber Exa Brain
0-15,000 Salvage
0-16 Smooth Phasmin
0-5 Tepa Nodule
0-12 Thermal Sludge
0-10 Tink Dissipator Coil
0-44 Travocyte Alloy
0-20 Venerdo Alloy

I have never bought a single bond from Ticker using Vallis resources. Always using credits or other resources, which he does. Also, you could just obtain them via bounties..

The Ostron stuff I obtained mostly from Thumpers. To be fair, I did fishing for Amps and mining for zaws. But there is a reason as well I have never fully ranked with Ostrons. 

And neither requires conservation, which is a big deal breaker here.

However, the more I play warframe, the less likely to spend any time doing crap. If it is not, at least level 100, and shoots (or jumps) at me, I do not want to see it.  

13 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

"Unplayable" = "I dont like it"

Yes, I do not. And there were always alternatives. Why not in Demios? Again, specifically the conservation.

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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