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Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread


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17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General note re: Scintillant! We discussed it yesterday, and realized the Scintillant description was too vague in terms of other methods to acquire it and updated its description in a Hotfix. Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

fixes for host/client leveling of necramechs too? it's almost impossible to level them without constantly losing xp to one thing or another

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18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General note re: Scintillant! We discussed it yesterday, and realized the Scintillant description was too vague in terms of other methods to acquire it and updated its description in a Hotfix. Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

Thank you Rebecca, please reduce the involvement of tokens in the syndicate rank ups and acquisition of helminth to nothing. Then I'll stop complaining.

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The general consensus seems to be a general dislike for doing conservation for standing and I have to admit I feel the same way, in a way it feels like your trying to delay us as long as possible from getting the Helminth section. To be honest I don't mind doing conservation when I choose to do it, but being forced to do it does not make me enjoy this part of the new update at all.It seems redundant to me to earn tokens and turn around and turn those in for standing, it just seems like an unnecessary extra step. I've come to the point where as soon as i'm done getting the Helminth system I'll be done with Deimos for a while. 

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After play for 2 days , i don't think son token is that difficult or long time grind with few effort u already got all son token  even I hates conservation gameplay but yeah, without fishing, conservation, mining then i have nothing to do aside bounty.

Edited by ToKeSia
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2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

LRvZ82T.png

Ok I don`t like this why the heck do we have to offer void traces, it`s bad enough you get between 6 - 30 and there is no other way to get them, we have to give up 150 of them? you need to either reduce the number to 25 or remove it.

We need to be able to get at least between 20 - 50 and be able to get it one other places or offered as a reward like we use to have on the POE bounties, at least that would be reasonable but this is unnecessary.

 

I dont know how, but i got some dropped in deimos, about 100 in the after mission report.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Regardless, DE needs to be transparent with us to set expectations.  Are they going to hot fix PC for 1 week and then bundle those fixes into a console release.  Is it going to be 2 weeks?  Four weeks?

I don't think it's too much of an ask to get some insight into the plan.

It will not be 4 weeks and they probably don't even know right now. You have to get a console build which you sent for CERT, that take's time both on DE side and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo side.

And yes they will hotfix PC for week maybe two and then put it into a one big build.

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Justo ahora, (PS4)Agent_CHAR dijo:

Regardless, DE needs to be transparent with us to set expectations.  Are they going to hot fix PC for 1 week and then bundle those fixes into a console release.  Is it going to be 2 weeks?  Four weeks?

I don't think it's too much of an ask to get some insight into the plan.

For you guys it would have been correct to send you the expansion after the hotfixes hit and were tested... I never understood why the whole "Release on all plataforms at once" we all knew there were some intense bugs all over the place... now consoles will get a poor experience for at least a weak until the cert and all the hoops M$ , Sony and i'm guessing nintendo(this ones must be the real A Holes out of all 3 from how they act with everyone) are done 😞  

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22 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General note re: Scintillant! We discussed it yesterday, and realized the Scintillant description was too vague in terms of other methods to acquire it and updated its description in a Hotfix. Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

I ran the t2 bounty over 40 times and got zero. It's a "common reward". There's something else at play here that maybe you guys should look at. I think your loot acquisition system may not be functioning correctly or as intended.

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2 minutes ago, kaotis said:

For you guys it would have been correct to send you the expansion after the hotfixes hit and were tested... I never understood why the whole "Release on all plataforms at once" we all knew there were some intense bugs all over the place... now consoles will get a poor experience for at least a weak until the cert and all the hoops M$ , Sony and i'm guessing nintendo(this ones must be the real A Holes out of all 3 from how they act with everyone) are done 😞  

because many people want it, u can read from their comment in previous patch that why DE want to released on all platform to what player expectation

Edited by ToKeSia
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1 minute ago, kaotis said:

For you guys it would have been correct to send you the expansion after the hotfixes hit and were tested.

Agree 100% on that friend.  My updates being behind PC but more balanced and polished is A-OK in my book.  A lot of my point here is why should I even play the update right now when if I wait some weeks everything just gets better and easier.  I'll play it anyway have no doubt but I'm sure not going to grind the hell out of it.

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9 minutes ago, ToKeSia said:

After play for 2 days , i don't think son token is that difficult or long time grind with few effort u already got all son token  even I hates conservation gameplay but yeah, without fishing, conservation, mining then i have nothing to do aside bounty.

You would be able to do any or all of them if you wanted, but not doing them wouldn't prevent you advancing through the syndicate or acquring the Helminth Segment.

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I feel like communtiy goal driven unlocks of certain aspects of the content would be more motivating that the current method of gating ( tokens for rep, tokens for sacrifice items, and tokens because they want tokens ) with the participate during unlock phase reduced or voided standing caps. What i mean is, gating would feel less like enforced time invested moderation than something like "achieve this goal". 

Bounties give universal standing across ostrons and united. Why is all the standing from entrati divided up across the entrati fams? Why cant i gild my vulpaphyla till rank 3? It feels like getting your favorite food for lunch but then there is one serious thing wrong with it that makes it unenjoyable. Like pineapple on a pizza, or onions in your ice cream. 

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18 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I ran the t2 bounty over 40 times and got zero. It's a "common reward". There's something else at play here that maybe you guys should look at. I think your loot acquisition system may not be functioning correctly or as intended.

Or need better design? 

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I feel as though its unfair for low mr players for daily syndicate standing to be based on mastery rank. Could it be possible to make the daily syndicate standing cap the same amount for everyone? It would still take a while to get through the content even with 25,000 cap for everyone, and it Wouldn't leave out the newer players either

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The antigen and mutagens for the new predasite and vulpaphyla are really confusing 
Nowhere on the item does it say which ones are for predasite and which are for vulpaphyla.
I've now managed to make 3 antigens for predasite ,from 2 different bp's, before realising that none of them matched the mutagens I've made, which are for vulpaphyla .
The only way to find out which ones are for which is to go into the menu to build one, compare the names, then go back to son's "browse wares" tab. There needs to just be a bit of wording on the items themselves in the browse wares shop saying PREDASITE or VUPAPHYLA, this matters way more to me than which cosmetic effect the item has. 
I'm already trying to juggle resource management between using fish resources to get enough daughter tokens to rank up whilst also putting enough to one side to make pets, it shouldn't be an extra hurdle on my end to make sure those mutagens and antigens match.

The resource juggling is a fun management puzzle, getting tripped up by UI is not.

Thanks

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On 2020-08-25 at 6:36 PM, Xylena_Lazarow said:

WTB Helminth Segment 200p

Blocking progress with MMO minigame garbage is utterly insulting

I'll gladly wait a week for Helminth if it means I don't have to do this crap to get it

^^^^this , i would rather just give DE $20 then go through all that

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51 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General note re: Scintillant! We discussed it yesterday, and realized the Scintillant description was too vague in terms of other methods to acquire it and updated its description in a Hotfix. Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

Thank you for addressing what is obviously a show stopper for many people.

 

While the phrase is that you are getting a fix....what exactly does this mean?  When it was Cetus Wisps you added the ability to purchase them with Quills standing.  When it was atmo/gyro/repeller systems you placed the fix as standing behind Little Duck.  As of right now the analog to both of these is the syndicate Loid runs....but the missions for it are bugged and the mechanics for it are....obtuse to say the least.  More frustrating, 1k standing for each 10-15 minute run with a group of random players is not a good reward. 

For comparison, Profit-Taker for the same time offers 6k and other rewards.  Exploiter orb is about the same time, and offers 12k with ephemera and rare resources.  Eidolons offer wildly differing standing with their drops, but also offer arcanes and shards to dramatically increase focus gains (without a daily cap).  Heart of Deimos is just not rewarding period.

 

Given all of the rather....questionable...economics decisions that have been rolled back in less than three days of release it's a rather substantial concern that you need to help us with.  I'm already tired of the multi-tiered grinding that was added, and based upon the Helminth being another gigantic resource sink there's a lot in this update that seems content poor and grind heavy.  It wouldn't be bad if that grind were rewarding, but right now the only way to figure it out is the grind and hope.  Given what is presumed to be a basic mech, the introduction to your new great experiment with heavy units seems to leave a lot to be desired for a heck of a lot more grind.

 

-Edit-

As an aside, there seems to be a lot of goofiness with the resources....as though everything was balanced with the thought that people would start their farms with a drop chance and quantity booster.  I cannot speak for others, but I'm not activating mine for another few days at best, given how absolutely nutty things always are upon release.  If it seemed like the resources ever dropped too often it'd be a different story, but since PoE it always seems like the economies are set so low as to be painful.

I get the business decision here, where early adopters will pay for boosters to not have as much of a grind.  At the same time, it is a reason not to ever try and get anything but the bare necessities for most people.  Why waste 10 hours grinding for stuff at launch when two weeks later 4 hours will offer the same?  Why get enough resources to build extra stuff when there's so much content missing that is obviously going to be expanded upon (looking at you pets and weapons).  It's just not ideal to ever rush out and engage with an update anymore.  That's...well, we'll see with the October 2020 numbers what long term engagement such an update will bring to the table.

Edited by master_of_destiny
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51 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General note re: Scintillant! We discussed it yesterday, and realized the Scintillant description was too vague in terms of other methods to acquire it and updated its description in a Hotfix. Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

If the number of tags needed for the Son's tokens will be lowered I think that his tokens shouldn't give 500 rep. 

I like conservation very much (as can be apparent by my reactions in this thread 😄), but if you lower the number of tags needed for Son's tokens iwthout lowering the standing we get from them. it will break the rep economy of people that can do the conservation well.

For example: 

It is possible to get 30-40 different tags in 10 minutes. That usually allows player to buy 10 sons tokens (5000 standing)
If 30-40 tags would translate to like 20 tags now, that would be 10000 standing. Also you we would be able to buy a lot of grandma's tokens with that getting 15000. That may damage the balance, but I don't really know, just a thought .

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

I feel as though its unfair for low mr players for daily syndicate standing to be based on mastery rank. Could it be possible to make the daily syndicate standing cap the same amount for everyone? It would still take a while to get through the content even with 25,000 cap for everyone, and it Wouldn't leave out the newer players either

These areas aren't designed to cater to low MR players in their entirety. Poe is introduced way to early for new players now as is.. Especially because you need operator mode before you can even enter the quills area so 1/3 of the content there is not for new players.... 

Same as Fortuna and also now Heart of Deimos. It's not to lock players out but to have more people be ready to do them fully. The whole premise for Heart of Deimos was not to be fully accessible to the new players sorry to say. 

Helminth is locked to MR 15 or 16, I read it was reduced to MR8 which is total BS because it's gonna be resource heavy and the low players will not have the surplus needed for it so the "nerf resource amounts" complaints are gonna come rolling in if it is lowered.

This is not a dig at you but pointing out that it's designed to give new players a taste but the main course comes later. 

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I hate the token system. It's like mods ranking, but backwards: with mods we went from clunky duplicates and fusion cores to straightforward endo. With tokens we went from straightforward standing for activities and resources donation to 6 different tokens (one of which is acquired in exchange for the rest of them) and RNG layer of rotating deals, some are better than others, making value of resources you acquired and activities you participated in inconcistent. Plus old conversion style made it easier to get familiar with resources you get and their rarity quicker.

Being able to hoard tokens instead of getting nothing from bounties due to cap is a good thing, thank you for that, but it's surrounded by too much confusing junk and makes you waste lots of time in Necralisk just running between vendors.

Here's how I'd do this:

1. Mom's tokens are perfectly fine, keep them and rename to Entrati tokens or something.

2. Son's tokens - ditch them. Award Entrati tokens scaling with capture score for capturing animals + option to trade animal tags for standing.

3. Claptrap tokens - ditch them and make him just like other mining vendors in PoE/Fortuna. Maybe with Entrati tokens instead of raw standing for donations.

4. Daughter's tokens - ditch them and make her just like other fish vendors in PoE/Fortuna. Maybe with Entrati tokens instead of raw standing for donations.

5. Dad's tokens - this one is a bit of an outlier, you basically give him trash resources you get passively from bounties. I think his combat spciaiization can be turned into something more interesting. Like give you set of optional challenges you can do at your own pace during bounties of freeroam, something akin to Nightwave dailies or MHW Bounties. Kill X Deimos infested with Y damage/weapon type etc. Can take up to let's say 5, new ones appear after completed challenge in freeroam or finished bounty.  So, dtich both his tokens and half of common infested resources. Ditch half of all resources in the game really. And stop adding new ones until you fix economy, thank you.

6. Grandma's tokens - ditch them. Her tokens are just Shards of Serriglas Shards. Since the whole point of Grandmother is to force player into doing ALL activities, give her something like "do something for each family member" quest that refreshes daily/weekly/on completion and awards you Serriglas Shard. Like "exchange X rare fish, Y minerals, capture an animal and do Z bounties and father's assignments". Or maybe give each family member a weekly/daily quest requiring rare stuff and then Grandma would give you some goodies for finishing all of them.

7. Someone needs to be the Ticker and exchange "outside" resources for Entrati stuff. And add some evergreen stuff to Entrati strores.

 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Overnight, we ran stats and the amount collected was too low, which is widely accepted from the community to be the case. While we all start with baseline ‘0’ for new Updates, this Resource is an outlier in how slowly it’s being accrued, which is to say current pacing not our intention. They should feel like a revised Cetus Wisp, but when we compared the two overnight, and considering more people are playing Heart of Deimos and how many Scintillant are needed, they were lower to a degree that doesn’t make sense with their hookup. We are getting a fix and (along with general Son Token rebalance) in for this today.

Thanks for the insight.
(And for the fix/rebalance.  I've still only ever seen one, but couldn't suss out that it's collected with melee rather than collision (like Wisps) or Operator (like the Iso vaults).)


Tangent:
The bounty now says '3 Iso Vaults in a wyrm cycle'. This means day+night, not a single wyrm, correct?

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Otak seems a bit confused...

jzHEOAj.png

Even though I am a woman, he refers to me as "King".
Hearing him misgender me is quite irritating, as it turns a line that is meant as praise into... some sort of a mocking. It's also some sort of mocking proof that women are still underrepresented in gaming.

Now, it could be changed based on operator gender, which would be a slight improvement, but that still doesn't sit right, because that'd just throw enbies under the bus then. (Something like: "Who's awesome? That's right, you're awesome!" might be a better fit)

Maybe this could be looked at.

 

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26 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

I feel as though its unfair for low mr players for daily syndicate standing to be based on mastery rank. Could it be possible to make the daily syndicate standing cap the same amount for everyone? It would still take a while to get through the content even with 25,000 cap for everyone, and it Wouldn't leave out the newer players either

So, the economy of the reputation was entirely reworked for the 29.0 update, where lower level players see a large base value and slightly higher values across the spectrum.  This mechanic has been around for 5+ years, and was always a functional reward for players who have completed content to be able to do more in a day....but now has been tweaked such that the rewards decay at higher levels.

 

Exactly what then is the point of any mastery rank above 16?  It isn't slots....those can be bought.  It might be void trace hording....but you buy a booster and 3-5 runs will net you enough to make a radiant relic.  It must then mean that DE doesn't value engagement time in the same way anymore.  What you're now proposing is that there's going to be negligible reason to keep playing through the fodder content.  No reason to level up bratons, burstons, stugs, and other stuff that isn't powerful.  Yes, MR is a small reward to reduce grind, but it's substantial enough to be viable.  Without additional standing gains it ceases to be of any worth.  

 

Additionally, 25k?  That math means everyone can earn anything in 4 days.  Imagine an MR 3 player being told they don't have to engage with the systems in the game because they can just grind whatever they like an use their standing to side-step the content that isn't the most rewarding.  Yes, that's an three augments every two days.  You're placing a rather strangely large reward potential into the hands of people who haven't necessarily even beaten the main story line of the game to unlock basic features.

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