Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[TheSpad]

The thing about the conservation is that all of the animals spawn in the open world, which means you don't have to go through the especially tedious (because it's a) bugged and b) much harder to follow tracks than Fortuna) conservation process. I flew 3 loops of the Drift with my tranq rifle equipped and I've got more than enough tags now to rank up.

That said:

• Tranq rifle highlighting needs serious work so you can find the animals more easily
• Velocipods don't get highlighted by the tranq right now and need to
• I don't have a problem with DE adding an alternative means to acquire Son tokens so people don't have to do hunting.

I'm also glad to see they're looking at the Scintillant drops because it's clearly borked. I have half a dozen of each of the rare mod rewards from running T2 bounties and I've got 3 scintillant in total from all bounties and vaults I've run.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, _sandsoftime_ said:

The conservation isn't bad concept they just executed it so badlly that it would need a multiple additions like in my post above or just rework it 😄

I cannot explain to you how much I hate literally every single step of conservation.  I barely tolerated it on the Vallis because I could max out my syndicate standing for the day in 4 Incarnadines, but I didn't enjoy it, ever.  It was a chore that I did for standing.  This isn't 4 caps for maxed out standing.  This is dozens of caps for part of your day's standing.  

[HelixRook]

1 minute ago, TheSpad said:

 

• Velocipods don't get highlighted by the tranq right now and need to

Weird they do for me, but only if I’m right in front of them. 

[_sandsoftime_]

Just now, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

I cannot explain to you how much I hate literally every single step of conservation.  I barely tolerated it on the Vallis because I could max out my syndicate standing for the day in 4 Incarnadines, but I didn't enjoy it, ever.  It was a chore that I did for standing.  This isn't 4 caps for maxed out standing.  This is dozens of caps for part of your day's standing.  

Yeah it's bad but it could be fixed by adding "longer" route arround but that route is easier to do like token exchange (50 mother tokens = 1 son/ daughter / father token) because other recoursess you can get  by just playing and conservation feels like  it's trying to isolate itself from this by adding hard to see and small animas, while geting attacked from every side.

 

[Elunelis]

5 часов назад, Her_Lovely_Tentacles сказал:

Otak seems a bit confused...

Even though I am a woman, he refers to me as "King".
Hearing him misgender me is quite irritating, as it turns a line that is meant as praise into... some sort of a mocking. It's also some sort of mocking proof that women are still underrepresented in gaming.

Now, it could be changed based on operator gender, which would be a slight improvement, but that still doesn't sit right, because that'd just throw enbies under the bus then. (Something like: "Who's awesome? That's right, you're awesome!" might be a better fit)

Maybe this could be looked at.

 

WTF?
The robot has bipolar disorder, you mean that you condemn his LOOKS? If he does not understand who is in front of him, what is hinting at his speech in most dialogues, he considers you a miner, in every way he speaks out of topic. It is so inherent in it, it was invented that way, and you are trying to find oppression in it.
Are you against people with bipolar disorder? If you want to change this, then you condemn me because I am also sick.
 

[Karonuva]

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the core princile is to kill enemies and get loot, not go fishing, animal rescue, cave dive for minerals. there is no alternative to ranking up. you need to do mining, fishing, conservasion, and bounties. 

they should have used what they already made since they updated plains of eidolon to be like fortuna.

Frankly, if all you want to do is mindless shooting there is plenty of that already in the game. Just because you can't stand the idea of something that doesn't involve shooty shooty does not mean that's the only thing the game should be.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, _sandsoftime_ said:

Yeah it's bad but it could be fixed by adding "longer" route arround but that route is easier to do like token exchange (50 mother tokens = 1 son/ daughter / father token) because other recoursess you can get  by just playing and conservation feels like  it's trying to isolate itself from this by adding hard to see and small animas, while geting attacked from every side.

 

That exchange rate sounds like ass tbh.  I'm not having an issue getting a slow trickle of the other tokens.  Conservation is a nightmare to me.  If this was one of the main parts of the core game when I started playing I would have flat out uninstalled it after pretty much no time.  The fact that I'm already heavily invested time and money-wise into this game is the only thing keeping me from saying screw this update and quitting; solely over how much I hate conservation and the fact that it's mandatory.

I hate everything even conservation adjacent.  They show off new floofs on streams from time to time and it's just an irritated eye roll from me.  I used to buy them because I did conservation for NW (grudgingly so.) until I realized I was buying them for completion and because I already had tags, not because I wanted them.

I know it won't happen like this, but I don't want a work around for Son tokens.  I want that entire system to be completely isolated from the rest of the game like it is with the other conservation, aside from NW which I ignore these days.  I want it gone from the main game, but not removed since I know a small part of the playerbase enjoys it.

[HelixRook]

2 minutes ago, CephKaron said:

Frankly, if all you want to do is mindless shooting there is plenty of that already in the game. Just because you can't stand the idea of something that doesn't involve shooty shooty does not mean that's the only thing the game should be.

I like to do those things on my own. I don’t like being told I *have* to in order to progress anywhere. 

[Karonuva]

Just now, HelixRook said:

I like to do those things on my own. I don’t like being told I *have* to in order to progress anywhere. 

So you're angry you have to play the new content..to progress in the new content? I fully think that conservation and fishing is a hot mess (especially with enemies spawning out of your rectum constantly, and the visibility being awful), but to be angry you have to do the new activities to progress within the syndicate makes no sense. There should be unique requirements for ranking up, and not just a sink where you just deposit bullets for rep.

[_sandsoftime_]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

That exchange rate sounds like ass tbh.  I'm not having an issue getting a slow trickle of the other tokens.  Conservation is a nightmare to me.  If this was one of the main parts of the core game when I started playing I would have flat out uninstalled it after pretty much no time.  The fact that I'm already heavily invested time and money-wise into this game is the only thing keeping me from saying screw this update and quitting; solely over how much I hate conservation and the fact that it's mandatory.

I hate everything even conservation adjacent.  They show off new floofs on streams from time to time and it's just an irritated eye roll from me.  I used to buy them because I did conservation for NW (grudgingly so.) until I realized I was buying them for completion and because I already had tags, not because I wanted them.

I know it won't happen like this, but I don't want a work around for Son tokens.  I want that entire system to be completely isolated from the rest of the game like it is with the other conservation, aside from NW which I ignore these days.  I want it gone from the main game, but not removed since I know a small part of the playerbase enjoys it.

The excange rate was just a idea because i can rank up the entrati on 2nd rank i 2 runs and even tho i kinda like consevration the token system just destroyed it. I dont see increesing  value like on fortuna and POE so i dont even want to get to hunting. The flora just makes it harder then ever before. I don't agree that it should be isolated but make a workaround so people that are not intrested in Hunting Symulator could enjoy the game while still getting the rewards from the vendor (aka standing in POE and Fortuna)

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Who even does the math for your economy?  A single Kubrodon Incarnadine was worth 8,000 standing.  Most of the other animals were worth more standing in one cap than a single Son Token which STILL requires multiple caps of different animals.

8k standing is 16 Son Tokens, all of which appear to be more than 1 capture each.  Even if it's just 2 captures each, that's 32 captures for the same amount of standing as a single capture on the Vallis.  AND IT'S MANDATORY HERE.  WHAT THE #*!%.

[Mr.Holyroller]

I swear people spend more time complaining about conservation and tokens than actually just doing it.
An hour or so of flying around and tranqing random spawns with a booster was enough for me to have 20+ son tokens just waiting for some of the better turn-ins on refresh.

Please should actually just do it instead of immediately complaining.

Talking about things being "mandatory" or not is always a bad argument.
You don't have to do anything.
A lot of that can be seen with a large portion of the community staying at like MR16-18 because they feel no need to continue progressing and dealing with content.
You have to do specific things to get specific things in the game. This isn't anything new.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are reducing the number of Son Tokens in a near Hotfix. Thanks all!

Please remove all conservation requirements blocking access to the Helminth system.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I swear people spend more time complaining about conservation and tokens than actually just doing it.

That should tell you how bad this requirement is and how much people dislike it. MMO minigames are not content. Games should not be chores.

[Mr.Holyroller]

Just now, Xylena_Lazarow said:

That should tell you how bad this requirement is and how much people dislike it. MMO minigames are not content. Games should not be chores.

you've been saying the same thing everywhere you go in separate threads.
all the "content" in the game is grinding and repeating missions.
minigames at least break up the norm.
you not calling it content is just an opinion because you don't want to do it

[EinheriarJudith]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I swear people spend more time complaining about conservation and tokens than actually just doing it.
An hour or so of flying around and tranqing random spawns with a booster was enough for me to have 20+ son tokens just waiting for some of the better turn-ins on refresh.

Please should actually just do it instead of immediately complaining.

Talking about things being "mandatory" or not is always a bad argument.
You don't have to do anything.
A lot of that can be seen with a large portion of the community staying at like MR16-18 because they feel no need to continue progressing and dealing with content.
You have to do specific things to get specific things in the game. This isn't anything new.

ive done it and i dont like it. people have every right to complain about being forced to do something they do not like in light of the fact that DE made 2 other open worlds previously have alternative progression.

[Frendh]

Not cool locking nekramech syndicate, Loid, behind Mastery Rank (MR14).

 

37 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Who even does the math for your economy?  A single Kubrodon Incarnadine was worth 8,000 standing.  Most of the other animals were worth more standing in one cap than a single Son Token which STILL requires multiple caps of different animals.

8k standing is 16 Son Tokens, all of which appear to be more than 1 capture each.  Even if it's just 2 captures each, that's 32 captures for the same amount of standing as a single capture on the Vallis.  AND IT'S MANDATORY HERE.  WHAT THE #*!%.

It is not a good comparison. Because it seems all Entrati standing is buffered standing, as in you can turn it in whenever you want to. Which means no/very little standing goes to waste.

Personally I have not had any issues with this new standing system. I am maxed in all other open world syndicates.

I have not figured out how to farm scintallant at a reasonable pace though. So far that is my only problem if we disregard bugs.

 

 

 

[master_of_destiny]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I swear people spend more time complaining about conservation and tokens than actually just doing it.
An hour or so of flying around and tranqing random spawns with a booster was enough for me to have 20+ son tokens just waiting for some of the better turn-ins on refresh.

Please should actually just do it instead of immediately complaining.

Talking about things being "mandatory" or not is always a bad argument.
You don't have to do anything.
A lot of that can be seen with a large portion of the community staying at like MR16-18 because they feel no need to continue progressing and dealing with content.
You have to do specific things to get specific things in the game. This isn't anything new.

Here's the rub.  With a booster.  Here's the other rub, people stay at a 16-18 MR because there's nothing to unlock past it.  

 

Let's look at the economy of the tags.  On both PoE and Fortuna you can snag an animal, and you get both a tag and standing.  Said tags are not required for progression on either place, and you could theoretically never have a single animal capture.  This means it isn't forced, it offers rewards, and it offers standing.  Now Deimos.  Random spawns are active...and two of the animal types can be incapacitated but still offer value.  The problem is that you get a tag.  You then have to trade these tags at somewhat ridiculous rates to get coins, to get standing or to sacrifice.  Not particularly fun if you don't like the mechanic, but necessary to experience all of the other stuff.

 

Now, at MR 16  you unlock everything.  You now have more syndicate cap, thanks to the rework DE did recently.  You've got enough slots and void trace capacity for 8 full radiant relics.  There's precious little reason to go out and grind 5% drop chances, to get a weapon you will level up and sell off for about as many credits as simply selling the blue print would have netted you.  The issue is that DE isn't rewarding past MR 16, and they've even made that increasing grind deliver less than before.  That's not a problem with players, it's a problem with DE not offering a compelling reason to spend another dozen hours to get a piece of content that makes the game less fun until it's sold off.

You want a short list?  Well, 5000 mutagen samples for the Hema.  30,000 cryotic for the sibear.  5% blue print drop rates for the Pennant and Quellor from a mission with one enemy that has that chance, assuming they even spawn.  2% drop rates for pieces of the Braton Vandal.  It's not fun for most people to grind their faces off, and be rewarded with a joke.  Think of it as the "Go Outside" achievement for The Stanley Parable.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Could we have option to turn off the info that appears after a capture, it really annoying breaking immersion and since wild encounters often have attacking enemies, which continues to attack during the info textbox.

[Frendh]

12 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

You want a short list?  Well, 5000 mutagen samples for the Hema.  30,000 cryotic for the sibear.  5% blue print drop rates for the Pennant and Quellor from a mission with one enemy that has that chance, assuming they even spawn.  2% drop rates for pieces of the Braton Vandal.  It's not fun for most people to grind their faces off, and be rewarded with a joke.  Think of it as the "Go Outside" achievement for The Stanley Parable.

With boosters 5000  mutagen samples takes at most an evening to farm with a squad. I do not see that as a problem for a _Clan_ research. 30k, cryotic is a problem for a new players who wants the weapon right away. So I can see it being a problem for a good chunk of players. But I do not see having few weapons that actually takes a bit of time to get as a problem. For people just wanting Sibear to max MR, 30k cryotic is NOT a problem if you leave it for the last batch of items to max.

Don't know about Pennant and Quellor. I was probably just lucky. Less than 30 runs to get both.

[(XBOX)Dresden Drake]

LOVING the update!!!!

At first I was taking on the challenge of unlocking the Chrysalis as quickly as possible, for fun and out of excitement for all the novel Frame/power combinations that will TOTALLY reinvigorate my use of frames I never touched. I have two VERY different bits of feedback from this:

1st: - I primarily play WF for the guns/mobility/hilarious-explosion-physics. If I approach the daughter/son token gates like I would in any normal paid game that I own, then they gave me the needed push to explore & experience the Cambrian Drift very differently, showing me new minigames I wouldn't have checked out otherwise. Mission accomplished. But if I view them as gates behind which the gunplay/mobility/awesome-explosion content is locked behind... I'd feel manipulated, just saying, and so did the fellow I was playing with.

I'm having fun, but: Not everyone wants to login into warframe and proceed to... not play the base game, in order to unlock more of the base game.

2nd: - Phenomenal writing! My favorite syndicate for sure, and I enjoyed the themes of the Ostrons and Solaris. Thanks to the writers and actresses/actors for the great story, as I never cared much for dysfunctional family stories before this. The fact that the characters here show their redeemable/relatable side is AWESOME, and subtle enough! Subtle - unlike all the exposition the profit taker constantly spouts, heh heh.

 

I shall be asking in another thread how best to spend money in the way that most reflects on the developers work. BIG THANKS for all this free content!!!  I love all the systems I've tried, though if you could find ways to not gate the majority of combat content behind non-combat gameplay I know the veterans will appreciate it greatly. 😃

 

 

 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

24 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

you've been saying the same thing everywhere you go in separate threads.
all the "content" in the game is grinding and repeating missions.
minigames at least break up the norm.
you not calling it content is just an opinion because you don't want to do it

Correct. I do not want to grind MMO minigames to access Helminth system. I will keep posting about this until DE changes it, or until I stop caring about Warframe. This will in no way prevent you from enjoying a break from the norm, or from progressing through Deimos via minigames. Why does it matter to you whether I engage in conservation or not, or whether other players have core combat alternatives to minigames they find to be tedious chores?

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

While the token system is an interesting take it feels like it was poorly thought out. When compared to the other open worlds there's so much RNG on top of RNG with it which just is frustrating while Cetus and Fortuna have a more streamlined progression, this is just all over the place.

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

3 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Correct. I do not want to grind MMO minigames to access Helminth system. I will keep posting about this until DE changes it, or until I stop caring about Warframe. This will in no way prevent you from enjoying a break from the norm, or from progressing through Deimos via minigames. Why does it matter to you whether I engage in conservation or not, or whether other players have core combat alternatives to minigames they find to be tedious chores?

Exactly this. 

Honestly I too will continue to voice my outrage at force feeding conservation on us. 

I'll tell you what further they should be glad that we are angry. Angry means we care. When we stop being angry it means we don't care. Not caring leads to not playing. Not playing leads to not cycling through plat. No plat equals not spending money that goes to DEs pocket.

Do I need to continue on this line of thought or have the "suck it up crowd" figured it out yet?

[master_of_destiny]

2 minutes ago, Frendh said:

With boosters 5000  mutagen samples takes at most an evening to farm with a squad. I do not see that as a problem for a _Clan_ research. 30k, cryotic is a problem for a new players who wants the weapon right away. So I can see it being a problem for a good chunk of players. But I do not see having few weapons that actually takes a bit of time to get as a problem. For people just wanting Sibear to max MR, 30k cryotic is NOT a problem if you leave it for the last batch of items to max.

Don't know about Pennant and Quellor. I was probably just lucky. Less than 30 runs to get both.

Four people with presumably a resource and drop chance booster.  That's great, shape your economy around having to buy boosters....Hopefully you get the issue, but if not explain to me why the release state of titanium was acceptable for railjack.  I'll wait.  As a reminder, it was double.  That was insufficient, and it was doubled again.  If you use a booster today is would be 8x the drop rate at the beginning, which is almost an order of magnitude more.

 

Regarding the extractors, boosted is 150 or more likely 300 rounds.  If each is 100 seconds, that's ten hours of grinding at the default rate to get a sibear.  If you missed the point, there's no other way to get cryotic at any regular frequency (the occasional bounty rewards are even more of a joke).  As far as "leaving it in the last batch," did you miss the point about people not moving past MR 16-18?  That's the point, there's no reward for all of that grind.

 

95% that you don't get the drop.  Factor in the time to completion, and it's 14 runs before 50% of people could get the drop.  If we're looking at 90%, that's 45 runs.  Assuming you can get 3 done in an hour, that's a 15 hour grind for 90% of people to have the drop.  Again, 15 hours for a couple of weapons is pretty bleak and offers zero incentive for a player to invest that time.

 

My point is that the returns don't diminish after MR 16, they evaporate.  DE failed to give players a reason, so why would they do it?  Me, I'm MR 29.  Why do I do it?  Stockholm's syndrome.  Between that and a two year break....which I'm rapidly seeing reason to repeat...I'm continuing to play because I'm hoping that DE course corrects and gives us fun content not dependent on grind for engagement.  They did it 6 years ago.  It's simple, less content but more often.  Unfortunately, that's been lost.  Content is now grind and RNG locked, which is no way to create engagement.  It's a way to slowly choke out even the dedicated player base....and the player counts and financial are in agreement there.