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Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread


SilverBones

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I'm a bit confused about why the Necraloid and Entrati standing systems involve paying back blueprints/parts which cost Entrati standing?

I mean... OK... we can do that. But, that's really just the same as raising the maximum standing for that Entrati rank by the cost of that/those blueprints/parts. No? Is this some kind of psychological experiment where by trading these kinds of items away for ranking up, we'll somehow feel hopeless in ever building Keratinos or Sepulcrum (for example) so we'll just buy them from the market? But really, this kind of trading standing for parts to use to rank up is exactly the same as just increasing the maximum amount of standing for that rank by the cost of those parts (because we need to max the standing to be eligible for the rank up)... and it's very silly.

By the way, trading an Orokin Orientation Matrix for fractional standing only visually works. Upon returning to Loid later, I've lost the standing I gained (along with the Matrix). It's just one Orokin Orientation Matrix... not a big deal, but mildly irritating that the game says " Are you sure you want just 500 standing? OK, here it is and we'll take Matrix from you" and then later "Oh, you don't actually have that 500 standing and you have 0 matrices (we basically stole it from you)".

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16 hours ago, deyuaru said:

My only qualm with the current economy of Deimos is:
 

1. Scintillant Drop Rates are still bad even after hotfix. (Either increase the rates again, or reduce the crafting cost, or add it into the Necraloid Shop, just like Cetus Wisp for Quills)

2. The Grandmother Tokens needed for the Shard should be reduced from 20 to 10.

3. Increase the chances of getting Thaumica in the caches at the end of Isolation Vaults.

All good suggestions.

When I saw 20 Grandmother tokens I almost had a heart attack given I can only afford 1 or 2 of them realistically.

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Ok now I found out why people dislike conservation. They give significantly less standing than the ones on PoE and Orb Vallis. 1 Son Token gives 1500 standing. To get 1 son token you need to capture around 4-6 animals regardless of capture performance. 4-6 animals for 1500 standing is indirectly insulting player’s time and making it not worth it. In Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis. The worst capture net you 500 standing per animal.

How to fix this? Significantly bump sun token standing gain from 1500 to 5000 or capturing animals should give you standing.

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Conservation in Deimos needs a QoL pass to it.  Here's a list of things that need fixing off the top of my head:

  • Caves are creating many false-positives with the flagging for the poops
  • The map isn't clear on where the poop is, and seems to change based on archwing and terrain elevation.
  • Many poops spawn under rivers
  • The Deimos trails are by far the hardest trails to follow when compared to PoE and OV
  • Targets aren't on the radar, which is not how things work elsewhere
  • Sometimes the target will get killed by hostile infested, when it should be ignored
  • When you get a tag for a Predasite or Vulaphyla, you should get one to turn into a pet
  • Things spawn in, but due to the signal site being in a weird location, the mobs never appear to come towards the signal area, leaving you wondering if it broke, or if you just missed the target

There's probably other stuff, but that's the really big pain points with hunting atm.

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5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Ok now I found out why people dislike conservation. They give significantly less standing than the ones on PoE and Orb Vallis. 1 Son Token gives 1500 standing. To get 1 son token you need to capture around 4-6 animals regardless of capture performance. 4-6 animals for 1500 standing is indirectly insulting player’s time and making it not worth it. In Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis. The worst capture net you 500 standing per animal.

How to fix this? Significantly bump sun token standing gain from 1500 to 5000 or capturing animals should give you standing.

More importantly, to get 1 son token, you need to capture around 4-6 of the right combination of animals (with respect to the current state of the rolling RNG Son requirements)! I've bagged plenty of animals, but I very often am missing animals to even buy most of the tokens!

EDIT: Contrast this with PoE/Orb Vallis where bagging the animal gives the standing immediately. In Deimos, you have to stockpile tags and be lucky enough to have the right ones to even gain access to standing via Son tokens.

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I really love the new token system.  It was a bit confusing at first, but once I realized that it was just a way to:

  • Earn extra standing by diversifying the activities I took part in.
  • Still gain "standing" even after the daily cap is met.
  • Add some narrative flair to the standing system.

...I was all-in!

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One thing that I would suggest for conservation is give us a new upgraded tranq gun that has features like the highest tier mining laser. Aka shows the number of creatures in range and shows where they are on the minimap. Could use the little footprint symbol from the lures as the mark on the map. It would also be nice if we could have an option to change the color that it highlights the creatures in so we could adjust it based on which open world we were hunting on.

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Im still yet to see any scintillant after the hotfix. Its getting to be a little bit of a joke now. Ive tried both the isolation vaults and the easy bountys and so far ive gotten nothing. It seems for a "common" drop, the weighting is so far towards endo/lenses and mods that there really doesnt seem to be any drops at all for it

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There no place for a more generalist feed back, so i will put it here...

 

I like HoD but it is also disapointing.

It is a very better version of open world we had so far. But, grinding seens to be harder now, even for me (MR29), wich is exalsting and doesn't motivate me to play...

 

Eidolons has hunting limitations, only doable at night and night is short, it was allways a barrier in my mood for play it. Fortuna orb mothers are ok, but i have no reason to farm then. And now Necramechs are behind the isolation vaults wich has a order rotation that bugs all the time and resets with the worm cycle (man that sucks). I can't do rank 3 because the quest always bugs, mother won't show the R3 quest even when i completed R2 and i'm at the same worm cycle. Why can't i start at R3? and man Necramechs pieces drops sucks, i gues people only got their necramechs thanks to the initial drop exploit.

 

Conservation is just bad, usually i would like to farm rep doing conservation as i did in Fortuna, but there is no way of doing it i HoD, duche bag brother coins are ridiculous expensive.

 

And endeless bounty is to slow and easy, we need more options pls.

------

Good sides:

Map is gorgeous, enemies are fun, it can be chalenging. I see a spark of a new mode there (DE be brave, give us what we want hehehe).

Best open world by far... (the others kind of suck... but this is good)

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Necraloid syndicate is absolutely devoid of content. Everything is a one-time purchase. Suggest to put the necramech mods in the syndicate.

Disagree about grandma's wares being too expensive. I've bought 2 seriglass shards and 45 tokens worth of glyphs, along with keeping up with my 30k standing. It's good content that rewards you for playing all aspects of the zone. If you don't like conservation and fishing, you'll get grandma tokens a lot slower, but if you keep up with it all, you can get all the grandma tokens.

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19 hours ago, nslay said:

I'm a bit confused about why the Necraloid and Entrati standing systems involve paying back blueprints/parts which cost Entrati standing?

I mean... OK... we can do that. But, that's really just the same as raising the maximum standing for that Entrati rank by the cost of that/those blueprints/parts. No? Is this some kind of psychological experiment where by trading these kinds of items away for ranking up, we'll somehow feel hopeless in ever building Keratinos or Sepulcrum (for example) so we'll just buy them from the market? But really, this kind of trading standing for parts to use to rank up is exactly the same as just increasing the maximum amount of standing for that rank by the cost of those parts (because we need to max the standing to be eligible for the rank up)... and it's very silly.

tbh, it's not really a big thing at all since we get mother tokens amass - the only real obstacle here is the daily cap-limit of how much one can trade those tokens for standing. the price of those BPs is also rather low (at least of those upto rank 3). for now, i yet had more trouble getting the other stuff necessary for ranking up than i had with accumulating standing/token.

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1 minute ago, fr4gb4ll said:

tbh, it's not really a big thing at all since we get mother tokens amass - the only real obstacle here is the daily cap-limit of how much one can trade those tokens for standing. the price of those BPs is also rather low (at least of those upto rank 3). for now, i yet had more trouble getting the other stuff necessary for ranking up than i had with accumulating standing/token.

I don't have any trouble either. That said, it's still as I wrote... the same as increasing the maximum standing for that Entrati rank. There is no purpose served by buying parts with standing to trade for ranking up. Basically, as I wrote: It's silly.

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1 hour ago, Enialyx said:
  1. Thaumica is much too rare.
  2. Necrathene is too rare.
  3. Scintillant is still too rare.
  4. Grandma's inventory is too expensive (e.g. Seriglass shard)
  5. Relics should be taken out of T3 Isolation Vault reward table

totally this. scintillant, is so rare even though it's a common reward from one bounty - and the amount of one from there is a pita since we need quite a few of them. the other 'location', the vaults also have failed more often to provide me with the stuff.

thaumica... after one hour of mining for it, i got nothing. i only got about 40 of the stuff from one or two pylons, i think - but that only gave me a small part of what i need for building things.

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3 minutes ago, nslay said:

I don't have any trouble either. That said, it's still as I wrote... the same as increasing the maximum standing for that Entrati rank. There is no purpose served by buying parts with standing to trade for ranking up. Basically, as I wrote: It's silly.

i tried to look up how much standing per rank-up we needed for the other two open area 'syndicates', but could't find a list of it - though i have the feeling we need less for the entrati than for the osterons or solaris... if this would hold true, this little 'extra' would be fine - though you're right that it's silly to 'hide' the extra cost with such a system.

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The grind is getting too fractal for me, I'm having to go grind resources on the plains for the resources on Deimos that I grinded for to rank up so I can grind tokens for grandmother to buy a special resource for a weapon that I ground up the blueprint from tier 5 bounties.

It's too interconnected for not enough benefit for me. ESPECIALLY the conservation, previously 1 conservation animal could be worth 500-1000 standing and some of them were even worth almost 4k, now I have to do multiple seperate hunts to get 500 standing randomly in a capped way, a perfect capture on a sunny pobber has more value than an entire group of cryptilex because there isn't any benefit to perfect captures out in Deimos, you might as well just run directly up to them and headbutt them with the tranq rifle.

The old system was better because while you're doing conservation you have your tranq rifle out and basically by definition aren't gathering resources, so to compensate you for your time spent stepping in poop conservation could be worth significantly more than catching one fish. The new system basically puts the entire rigamarole of hunting down a single Kubrodon and shooting it twice from a distance for a perfect capture on the same level as spearing maybe two fish or doing almost exactly 1/66th of a level 3 combat mission with Mother, I actually calculated that one out and that's not counting anything else just tokens and you generally only get tags from conservation, and for value for your time that's pretty bad.

There needs to be some rebalancing of how you get tags for conservation and less massive interconnected systems that pay out very poorly. My first suggestion would be to give more tags for perfect captures like 1 for bad, 2 for good, 3 for perfect, set 2 as the baseline, and change all the numbers to reflect that in some way so your skill as a hunter actually factors into things.

 

If you want the fastest way to improve this entire system for me could you visually indicate which tokens I can buy with the UI and speed up buying them so I can just go in and click click click real fast and not have to consider if it's better to get 200 rep for this amount of fish parts or 100 rep if I have these fish parts when I'm trucking in fish parts in bulk but maybe didn't farm in a cave/on the surface. Because the tokens feel very token for how long it takes you to buy them up. At the very least just make a beep sound at me and blink the required resources red instead of popping up a message when I can't afford something.

Also PLEASE put in something that indicates when a conservation starter marker is underground or in a cave or something, because it becomes confusing as heck to figure out and it just looks like they're just stuck underground.

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I would like to suggest that all the open worlds get the railjack treatment where if one person in the squad picks something up everyone gets it. I just had an infuriating experience. We did a full 3 isolation vault run and apparently either my loot fell through the world or somehow I missed going over the spot where one of the necromechs died. When we went back to town everyone but me had received a scintallent off of one of the necromechs so I am still stuck short of being able to craft the new warframe ><.

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Thaumica is frustratingly rare. i even looked up where to get it because i began doubting that it's a mining yield. i went digging for 45 minutes and got ! 8 ! pieces of Thaumica. please, guys. mining isn't fun, it's a slow chore. don't make us run around for hours to get enough of the obscenely rare ores

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I just found out today that it takes 10 Son tokens to gild an Infested Companion in the Necralisk.

... What? Why is this a thing?

In Cetus, to gild a Zaw you need 2 Cetus Wisps. In Fortuna, it takes 2 Training Debt Bonds to gild a Moa. However, for kitguns it takes 10 Shelter Debt Bonds to gild them.

But here’s the thing: Companions aren’t weapons and they don’t follow the same shared affinity exp accruement that Warframes/Primaries/Secondaries/Melees do. On top of that, we’re expected to pay 10 Son Tokens to gild these Infested Companions.

What is up with this weird economy and inane timely process in unlocking content?

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