Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I just found out today that it takes 10 Son tokens to gild an Infested Companion in the Necralisk.

... What? Why is this a thing?

In Cetus, to gild a Zaw you need 2 Cetus Wisps. In Fortuna, it takes 2 Training Debt Bonds to gild a Moa. However, for kitguns it takes 10 Shelter Debt Bonds to gild them.

But here’s the thing: Companions aren’t weapons and they don’t follow the same shared affinity exp accruement that Warframes/Primaries/Secondaries/Melees do. On top of that, we’re expected to pay 10 Son Tokens to gild these Infested Companions.

What is up with this weird economy and inane timely process in unlocking content?

Yeah, everything seems like there was an extra zero or two placed in there. Looking at you, Railjack Helminth.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Grandmother tokens - seriously - first off you need 20 to get that seripam thing. but worse is that you have to bounce between otak/mother/father/daugher depending on what she is exchanging at the moment.

its 20 minutes of interacting with these clowns trading this and that to trade for that and this to finally get the other thing.

grandmother should just always offer a flat exchange - 100 moms for 1 gma, 10 daughter/father for 1, 1 son for 1 gma.  This is just a frustrating pain in the ass.

 

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I just found out today that it takes 10 Son tokens to gild an Infested Companion in the Necralisk.

... What? Why is this a thing?

In Cetus, to gild a Zaw you need 2 Cetus Wisps. In Fortuna, it takes 2 Training Debt Bonds to gild a Moa. However, for kitguns it takes 10 Shelter Debt Bonds to gild them.

But here’s the thing: Companions aren’t weapons and they don’t follow the same shared affinity exp accruement that Warframes/Primaries/Secondaries/Melees do. On top of that, we’re expected to pay 10 Son Tokens to gild these Infested Companions.

What is up with this weird economy and inane timely process in unlocking content?

It feels like they want you to do anything BUT something like a space ninja fighting enemies.  If you look at how many son tokens are required to get those companions, and add in how many sun tokens are required to get grandmother tokens, combined with how many daughter tokens are required to get grandmother tokens, combined with how many otak tokens are required, to craft the two weapons requiring that decoration-looking thing grandmother sells and make the pets its an insane amount of fishing, mining, and conservation.

Meanwhile I have over a thousand useless mother tokens and hundreds of the orokin matices that are just piling up uselessly faster than they can be spent- you know from doing things that are actually space-ninja-y.  Mother tokens can't be traded for gma tokens unless paired with some absurd number of otak/daughter/father/son tokens.

 

 

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I just found out today that it takes 10 Son tokens to gild an Infested Companion in the Necralisk.

... What? Why is this a thing?

In Cetus, to gild a Zaw you need 2 Cetus Wisps. In Fortuna, it takes 2 Training Debt Bonds to gild a Moa. However, for kitguns it takes 10 Shelter Debt Bonds to gild them.

But here’s the thing: Companions aren’t weapons and they don’t follow the same shared affinity exp accruement that Warframes/Primaries/Secondaries/Melees do. On top of that, we’re expected to pay 10 Son Tokens to gild these Infested Companions.

What is up with this weird economy and inane timely process in unlocking content?

So, let's be reasonable for a moment.

 

Originally, everything cost 10 Son tokens.  That was Grandmother, and gilding pets.  It was then changed so each Son token was worth 500 instead of 100, and the costs decreased to 2 tokens.  It looks like they borked this, and simply forgot about the gilding.  Maybe back off the torches and pitchforks a little bit here.  Not a lot, but a little bit.

 

Also, welcome the Alpha tester group console players.  Is getting the new content worth dealing with all of the broken economy and bugs yet?  I ask this in jest, but my point is that PC players were saying this was going to be the case years ago when people first started pushing for closer releases.  Now the console players get to see the mess that major releases generally are...and it's looking like an enlightening experience on both sides.

 

On a different note...at least it doesn't cost two scintillant.  Those are supposed to be the new wisps, and are more difficult to find than a vegetarian at a steak house.

[Althaline]

Sorry, I just did the math, and WHY IS CONSERVATION SO UTTERLY WORTHLESS HERE? If you want to max your Fortuna rep for the day, you catch 4 Kubrodons and you're done. The same on Deimos could take around 140 random captures that you can't predict and then you have to deal with the timer on the store. What's up with all of this? We're not even in the same order of magnitude in terms of effort:reward ratios.

[shootaman777]

To make this valid feedback, I'll talk about both the good and the bad of the token economy/factions. It is the bad parts of the token economy/factions that bring people to the forums, because the bad parts are the ones that make people want to go on the forums more than they want to play the game. So, let's give credit where credit is due.

 

The good:

1) There's one absolutely stellar part of using a token system for rep gains - allowing the player to play to their heart's content, as much as they want, without feeling like they are wasting their time (getting no rep/reward) because "daily caps haha, get fvcked" (which is still the Solaris United/Ostron bounty experience, by the way). Mother tokens are the one and only token that is an example of the perfect implementation of a token system - play as much as you want, and turn them in whenever you please, at your convenience. It still keeps daily caps (and a dev-intended pace of progression) intact, but allows players to enjoy new content at the player's own pace.
 

2) Conservation targets all spawn 'organically' (think it was Rebecca who put it that way earlier on this thread) in the Cambion Drift. So, while doing bounties or exploring, a player can find all conservation targets while doing other things in the Cambion Drift. It's not a hassle to do conservation like in Fortuna, where Conservation creatures do NOT spawn organically.
Additionally, there's a Conservation spawn that often happens just outside the door to the Necralisk, that spawns 1-3 Vulpaphyla or Cryptilex in 1 of 3 spots around the door. Just outside the antechamber to the antechamber of the Necralisk, there're 2-3 spawn locations for Predasites/Vulpaphyla/Velocipods. GG EZ, free Son tokens for a moment of your time at a place you were already going to.
If, instead of saying 'Conservation bad, DE pls remove', players instead pulled out their Tranq Rifle when seeing an organic crowd of Conservation targets while on their way from one place to another, they would have also been sitting on a pile of tags and Son tokens before the economy changed.
But hey, now we get more tokens for less effort, and I can spend the tags I planned to use to rank up on Son tokens.  Works for me.
 

3) Grandmother directly increases the value of your other tokens, from 1k rep's worth to 1.5k rep's worth per token. Only 40 Grandmother tokens are currently necessary to spend on Seriglass Shards for the new weapons, meaning anything past that is 500 free rep apiece. Interesting concept - I quite like the idea of being able to convert lesser tokens into more valuable ones. I think Grandmother is the only member of the Entrati family who has a reason behind having their token conversion shop regularly reset like Fortuna's Ticker's shop.
 

4) The Necraloid faction is... alright, I guess. Kind of barebones; not fully fleshed-out; doesn't have much content in it; semantics. Given how much of a slow RNG slog the Mech/Cortege part grind is, a player will have enough Necraloid rep to purchase all items from the faction and max out their reputation at the current max rank 3, with plenty of Orokin Matrices to spare. The rank-up requirements are also easy to obtain. So, Necraloid progression is a breeze, making up for how hollow it is since it can be breezed by.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

The bad:

1) The way I see it, the number one issue is that a player has to not only wait to redeem the things they've already grinded for tokens, but also has to come back to the Necralisk every 1-2 hours for 5 minutes to buy another round of tokens with parts that the player has already spent the time to grind. This is absolutely obnoxious, just like purchasing Debt-Bonds from Ticker. Kill this with fire - instead, have set exchange prices for each component or component pair into tokens, to set an expectation of price/expected grind, and then only have discounts/deals be time-limited. I hate having to keep coming back and wasting time to get the payout for things I've already obtained. I think that the current implementation of this system is likely a way to avoid players who find fantastic grind methods (what DE would call an exploit) obtaining components at a rate far above the dev-intended one, then being able to stock up on tokens before DE nerfs those methods.
And to that, I have to say (no offense meant, but) "playtest your own game properly and it won't be an issue". For example, the Necramech grinding 'exploit' that DE 'fixed' 2 hotfixes ago could have been removed pre-launch by someone having the cognizance to realise that since Necramechs drop Mech/Cortege parts, DE should check every player interaction with Necramechs (of which there are five - using one's own Mech, using the quest Mech/the quest Mech fight, transfering into mechs lying around in the Cambion Drift, being assisted by friendly Mechs in the Cambion Drift, and Iso Vault mechs) to see if they would result in unintended drops... especially since the Mechs are one of the highlights of the update.
 

2) There's no light at the end of the tunnel in the Entrati syndicate. The Necraloid faction makes sense, because the goal is to obtain a mech. As it stands now, the only desirable item in the entire Entrati syndicate is the Helminth Segment, in rank 3.
But what's the incentive to bother grinding to rank 5 of the Entrati syndicate? A vaguely referenced (by Mother) 'strengthening your Void connection' because there are 'more things to find in an Iso Vault' if the player does so? A tiny bit of lore in the Necraloid room and some inter-family dialogue that someone can look up on YouTube or the Warframe Wiki after someone else hits rank 5 in the Entrati syndicate? For instance:
What's locked behind rank 4? Aquapulmo (Fish) Trophy BP, Processed Vome Residue, 4 Father mods, 4 Son Mutagens.
What's locked behind rank 5? Myxstomata (Fish) Trophy BP, Cambion Drift Captura Scene.
Some people may want some of the rank 4 items, but the rank 5 ones? Who would spend their time to obtain those? They're useless.
This faction is either incomplete, or there are hidden things at ranks 4-5 of the Entrati syndicate that cannot be seen at lower ranks... which is counterproductive, since it guarantees that only the people who grind content in Warframe for grind's sake will take the time to reach rank 5 with the Entrati syndicate. I will probably do it myself because I already have more than enough items to turn into tokens to turn into Grandmother tokens to turn into rep, and can do it with minimal effort. But looking at it from a rewards perspective, the Entrati syndicate is sorely lacking above rank 3.
It feels like this update was rushed out, likely to meet the arbitrary Tennocon update deadline of August 25th... and a ton of content was tossed aside in said rush.
 

3) The Daughter token economy is horrendous, but not because of the prices - because of the pieces demanded. There are barely any exchanges that allow the player to exchange exclusively common fish pieces for Daughter tokens - they almost all require parts from fish that range from uncommon to rare. On top of that, cave fish currently spawn at a terribly low rate compared to outdoor fish and many fish parts overlap with Son's antigen blueprints (which take 12 to 30 of a rare to uncommon fish piece, apiece). All of this adds up to Daughter tokens being (in my opinion) worse to obtain than people say Son tokens are.
It wouldn't take much to fix this - just spawn tweaks to cave fish, and clarfying where/when/how to use bait for the uncommon/rare fish... or even what using basic Fass/Vome residue as bait does. Perhaps adding an option with Daughter that would bring up a text box that describes where/when/how all of fishing works?
 

4) A big issue with the Necraloid faction is that it is, for all intents and purposes, invisible. Earlier today, I had to personally escort a player through the Necralisk to Loid to show them where the 'Mech faction' was, because they could not find it. It could certainly use a fast-travel option, or even a basic introduction (perhaps from Otak).

EDIT: The Necraloid is still invisible to the people who don't know where it is (AKA the people who need to know where it is). Cmon, DE, making the faction only visible TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY INTERACTED WITH THE FACTION is relatively pointless! I know you like to demand that Warframe players teach other players how the game works, instead of the game itself, but something as simple and basic as this shouldn't require community aid.

[Aldain]

The Fish exchange rate is too low, 3 sets of parts for 100 standing is a joke, and the parts asked for are WAY too high when considering that as well.

[NeroEzioDelacroix]

Please do not require materials from other free roaming worlds for blueprints introduced in Deimos. especially the alloys

[Suojelusp3rkele]

The bounty rewards!

DE finally went and added endless bounty which also includes mining bounty. This is actually really fun, but the issue I think it has that the mining itself doesn't yield any resources. If it gave out cryotic or something it'd be exactly what people have been asking since plains of eidolon was released. 

ALSO, because it's literally the endless bounty, something you can really grind out until you die, it should be THE bounty that yields rare ores, scintillant and other stuff you can never have too many of. Currently it features the mod sets (more about this later), and aside from the mods.. Nothing too special. No scintillant, no rare resources. Endo, stars and the usual stuff.

Also, the bounty rewards are really backwards.

Scintillant, rare ores etc. are in the pools of t1-2 bounties, meanwhile T4-5 mostly feature 'evergreen' options like endo, amber stars.. and for some reason the blueprints for weapons and frame. Repeating T4-5 bounties doesn't feel worthwhile, because you'd keep getting blueprints that bear no use after getting them once.

Which means after getting everything you basically roll backwards to doing T1-3 bounties. Less mother tokens, less enemies and less challenge.

Feels quite backwards to me.


EDIT:
The mod sets! These look really fun. Sadly the most used one is also probably the most common one. Slash set is raining down from enemies while Saxum and Jugulus sets are really rare. Saxum at least has theoretical chance to drop from enemies, but jugulus is bounty only.

Now imagine if you had to keep repeating T3 bounty ad nausea for set which is at best niche- setup set (puncture damage, slam effect) and instead you keep getting the slash set that is as common as mutagen samples in Cambion drift. Doesn't really feel rewarding.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, shootaman777 said:

To make this valid feedback, I'll talk about both the good and the bad of the token economy/factions. It is the bad parts of the token economy/factions that bring people to the forums, because the bad parts are the ones that make people want to go on the forums more than they want to play the game. So, let's give credit where credit is due.

 

The good:

1) There's one absolutely stellar part of using a token system for rep gains - allowing the player to play to their heart's content, as much as they want, without feeling like they are wasting their time (getting no rep/reward) because "daily caps haha, get fvcked" (which is still the Solaris United/Ostron bounty experience, by the way). Mother tokens are the one and only token that is an example of the perfect implementation of a token system - play as much as you want, and turn them in whenever you please, at your convenience. It still keeps daily caps (and a dev-intended pace of progression) intact, but allows players to enjoy new content at the player's own pace.
 

2) Conservation targets all spawn 'organically' (think it was Rebecca who put it that way earlier on this thread) in the Cambion Drift. So, while doing bounties or exploring, a player can find all conservation targets while doing other things in the Cambion Drift. It's not a hassle to do conservation like in Fortuna, where Conservation creatures do NOT spawn organically.
Additionally, there's a Conservation spawn that often happens just outside the door to the Necralisk, that spawns 1-3 Vulpaphyla or Cryptilex in 1 of 3 spots around the door. Just outside the antechamber to the antechamber of the Necralisk, there're 2-3 spawn locations for Predasites/Vulpaphyla/Velocipods. GG EZ, free Son tokens for a moment of your time at a place you were already going to.
If, instead of saying 'Conservation bad, DE pls remove', players instead pulled out their Tranq Rifle when seeing an organic crowd of Conservation targets while on their way from one place to another, they would have also been sitting on a pile of tags and Son tokens before the economy changed.
But hey, now we get more tokens for less effort, and I can spend the tags I planned to use to rank up on Son tokens.  Works for me.
 

3) Grandmother directly increases the value of your other tokens, from 1k rep's worth to 1.5k rep's worth per token. Only 40 Grandmother tokens are currently necessary to spend on Seriglass Shards for the new weapons, meaning anything past that is 500 free rep apiece. Interesting concept - I quite like the idea of being able to convert lesser tokens into more valuable ones. I think Grandmother is the only member of the Entrati family who has a reason behind having their token conversion shop regularly reset like Fortuna's Ticker's shop.
 

4) The Necraloid faction is... alright, I guess. Kind of barebones; not fully fleshed-out; doesn't have much content in it; semantics. Given how much of a slow RNG slog the Mech/Cortege part grind is, a player will have enough Necraloid rep to purchase all items from the faction and max out their reputation at the current max rank 3, with plenty of Orokin Matrices to spare. The rank-up requirements are also easy to obtain. So, Necraloid progression is a breeze, making up for how hollow it is since it can be breezed by.

.....

 

Allow me to offer an alternative.  

 

1) This is kind of an odd choice.  Let me offer the counter argument.  In PoE you can fish and mine minerals, or kill thumpers to continue to get resource.  These resources have a direct standing conversion, based upon rarity.  In Fortuna we have debt bonds, fishing, and minerals.  The fishing and minerals are the same.  Debt bonds are rewarded during quests and can be purchased with other resources from Ticker.  As such, there's already no cap on having a pool of conversion resources to get standing.  The literal only benefit of the token system is that the bounties can be run infinitely.

Now the other half to the equation.  Token conversion is RNG materials, leading to variable values.  It is limited to a certain amount of opportunities over time.  If you look at the numbers the tokens (except Son) are all worth 100, so the minerals and fish actually produce far less value per unit than either PoE or Fortuna.  Putting this into numbers, the only group that actually gets a benefit is those that want to grind bounties.  Otherwise, the economy is less rewarding than the previous open worlds.

 

2) "Organic" spawns are not new.  If you've been back on PoE since the launch of conservation there you'd know that condrocs, kavats, and kuakas all spawn there.  The only thing you need to call is Mergoos.  Fortuna is the only open world without random spawns....and it makes up for it with much higher rewards for a perfect capture.  3 Emperor Condrocs are worth one middle-tier Kubrodon.  On the other hand let's look at Deimos.  I just saw a tag for 2 middle tier fliers and 3 of the beetle things will provide one token.  The token is worth 500 standing.  Thus about 100 standing for any capture.  That's less than a common Kuaka on PoE.  This is where people are saying that the conservation sucks.  It's simply so not rewarding, and it's required to bag bunches of animals for the 10 Son tokens to gild a single pet.  Again, ouch.

To your point, you can fly around in an archwing with the tranq gun equipped.  You'll see all of the animals spawn at random (though extremely rarely with the bird analogs), and can usually bag 2 or 3 each time.  The issue is of course the fliers, and the insane weight towards the "low tier" variants.  Almost 40 tag for Sly kavat analogs, along with 20 of the weakened variant, but I have earned a total of 3 Medjay kubrow analogs.  I also have never seen anything but the common fliers, and bagged all 6 I've ever encountered.  It's just painfully unrewarding, and the prices are so much higher in rare animals.  That double dose of reduced rewards makes conservation of Deimos despised, not lazy players.  

 

3) Math is bad.  Let's do it twice over.  3 items require seriglass shards, so you're going to need 60 at minimum.  They are the Xaku warfan, the Father's secondary, and the Father's primary guns.  I don't blame your error here, as that fan blue print is a lot of grind to get.

Second part, Grandmother takes in 1000 standing, and returns 1500 standing.  Not exactly a huge gain, limited by having to farm all other individuals, and time locked.  All of this is an issue given that for all of that time it's easier to just run 3 bounties instead of 2 and get the same standing with 50% more drops.'

 

4) The progression isn't an issue, it's a complete lack of content.  One mech, one additional weapon.  Endless grinding necessary to get the mods.  Let me propose a different solution to this.  The mech doesn't require any drops to craft, but the blue prints are locked in tier 2 and 3.  The current MR locking sacrifice items stay in-place to prevent lower MR players from getting access to the content. 

Now expand the offerings with common mods on tier 2, uncommon on tier 3, rare on tier 4, and legendary (primed or faction named) on tier 5.  This means there'll be quite some difficulty in deciding to rank up or to kit out your shiny new mech.

To make the thing more interesting, field necramechs all drop a resource that is required to build the weaponry.  This way you can build a mech earlier, but it'll require many vault raids to get standing.  Those raids will offer you the components to the weapons, which by the time you reach tier 3 and 4 (where the gun blue prints are) you'll have plenty of.  This means organic progress, guided by the nose with rewards which will be useful as time goes on.  

All of this means weeks of grind in the necraloid faction, but immediate and palpable power and feedback.  

Instead what we have is 4 part blue prints, 1 mech blue print, 3 gun component blue prints, and 1 gun blue print.  It's half of what Tennocon promised, which means there's no reason to not breeze through the offerings and rapidly ascend the standing ranks.  That's not a good thing, that's demonstrating how barren the content is.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to be a downer on the responses, but you seem to not have any empathy for other players or the ability to reflect upon what came before.  This means the praise you're offering is for deeply flawed conclusions, and the dismissal of others' concern is troubling.  I've tried to outline what the alternative is above, so hopefully you can see the other side.  Barring that, please just say you disagree.  It seems like the argument of rewards versus requirements is something people aren't framing with the other open worlds, leading to the disparity between opinions.  It's largely not about the difficulty of systems, but the fact that their comparative rewards scale is just terrible.  It's not about having infinite standing grind capability, but forcing engagement with systems which were optional and previously more rewarding.  It's not about wanting no grind, it's about expecting consistent rewards for the grind in Fortuna, PoE, and Deimos given that they're mechanically identical if not visually so.

[shootaman777]

28 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

Allow me to offer an alternative.  

 

1) This is kind of an odd choice.  Let me offer the counter argument.  In PoE you can fish and mine minerals, or kill thumpers to continue to get resource.  These resources have a direct standing conversion, based upon rarity.  In Fortuna we have debt bonds, fishing, and minerals.  The fishing and minerals are the same.  Debt bonds are rewarded during quests and can be purchased with other resources from Ticker.  As such, there's already no cap on having a pool of conversion resources to get standing.  The literal only benefit of the token system is that the bounties can be run infinitely.

Now the other half to the equation.  Token conversion is RNG materials, leading to variable values.  It is limited to a certain amount of opportunities over time.  If you look at the numbers the tokens (except Son) are all worth 100, so the minerals and fish actually produce far less value per unit than either PoE or Fortuna.  Putting this into numbers, the only group that actually gets a benefit is those that want to grind bounties.  Otherwise, the economy is less rewarding than the previous open worlds.

 

2) "Organic" spawns are not new.  If you've been back on PoE since the launch of conservation there you'd know that condrocs, kavats, and kuakas all spawn there.  The only thing you need to call is Mergoos.  Fortuna is the only open world without random spawns....and it makes up for it with much higher rewards for a perfect capture.  3 Emperor Condrocs are worth one middle-tier Kubrodon.  On the other hand let's look at Deimos.  I just saw a tag for 2 middle tier fliers and 3 of the beetle things will provide one token.  The token is worth 500 standing.  Thus about 100 standing for any capture.  That's less than a common Kuaka on PoE.  This is where people are saying that the conservation sucks.  It's simply so not rewarding, and it's required to bag bunches of animals for the 10 Son tokens to gild a single pet.  Again, ouch.

To your point, you can fly around in an archwing with the tranq gun equipped.  You'll see all of the animals spawn at random (though extremely rarely with the bird analogs), and can usually bag 2 or 3 each time.  The issue is of course the fliers, and the insane weight towards the "low tier" variants.  Almost 40 tag for Sly kavat analogs, along with 20 of the weakened variant, but I have earned a total of 3 Medjay kubrow analogs.  I also have never seen anything but the common fliers, and bagged all 6 I've ever encountered.  It's just painfully unrewarding, and the prices are so much higher in rare animals.  That double dose of reduced rewards makes conservation of Deimos despised, not lazy players.  

 

3) Math is bad.  Let's do it twice over.  3 items require seriglass shards, so you're going to need 60 at minimum.  They are the Xaku warfan, the Father's secondary, and the Father's primary guns.  I don't blame your error here, as that fan blue print is a lot of grind to get.

Second part, Grandmother takes in 1000 standing, and returns 1500 standing.  Not exactly a huge gain, limited by having to farm all other individuals, and time locked.  All of this is an issue given that for all of that time it's easier to just run 3 bounties instead of 2 and get the same standing with 50% more drops.'

 

4) The progression isn't an issue, it's a complete lack of content.  One mech, one additional weapon.  Endless grinding necessary to get the mods.  Let me propose a different solution to this.  The mech doesn't require any drops to craft, but the blue prints are locked in tier 2 and 3.  The current MR locking sacrifice items stay in-place to prevent lower MR players from getting access to the content. 

Now expand the offerings with common mods on tier 2, uncommon on tier 3, rare on tier 4, and legendary (primed or faction named) on tier 5.  This means there'll be quite some difficulty in deciding to rank up or to kit out your shiny new mech.

To make the thing more interesting, field necramechs all drop a resource that is required to build the weaponry.  This way you can build a mech earlier, but it'll require many vault raids to get standing.  Those raids will offer you the components to the weapons, which by the time you reach tier 3 and 4 (where the gun blue prints are) you'll have plenty of.  This means organic progress, guided by the nose with rewards which will be useful as time goes on.  

All of this means weeks of grind in the necraloid faction, but immediate and palpable power and feedback.  

Instead what we have is 4 part blue prints, 1 mech blue print, 3 gun component blue prints, and 1 gun blue print.  It's half of what Tennocon promised, which means there's no reason to not breeze through the offerings and rapidly ascend the standing ranks.  That's not a good thing, that's demonstrating how barren the content is.

 

I'm sorry to be a downer on the responses, but you seem to not have any empathy for other players or the ability to reflect upon what came before.  This means the praise you're offering is for deeply flawed conclusions, and the dismissal of others' concern is troubling.  I've tried to outline what the alternative is above, so hopefully you can see the other side.  Barring that, please just say you disagree.  It seems like the argument of rewards versus requirements is something people aren't framing with the other open worlds, leading to the disparity between opinions.  It's largely not about the difficulty of systems, but the fact that their comparative rewards scale is just terrible.  It's not about having infinite standing grind capability, but forcing engagement with systems which were optional and previously more rewarding.  It's not about wanting no grind, it's about expecting consistent rewards for the grind in Fortuna, PoE, and Deimos given that they're mechanically identical if not visually so.

1) In PoE, the only Thumper drops that may be exchanged for Ostron rep are gems (only whole fish may be turned in for standing, not the parts that drop from Thumpers). In the first place, mining is one of the worst ways to get rep in Cetus - because gems have a p1ss poor conversion rate into rep. Fishing is just as bad unless you purchase resource amount AND drop chance boosters (and preferably run a Smeeta Kavat), as well as use bait for the rare fish (Murkrays are the most convenient for Ostron standing at 1k L/625 M/500 S). In Cetus, doing bounties after hitting your daily rep cap still means that you get zero standing from the bounty itself (in other words, you've wasted your time). This is why having a token system, if not exclusively for the bounty giver, is a fantastic idea.

In Fortuna, the content itself is bass-ackwards. Mining rewards the most rep per time spent (more so than bounties, even). Debt-bonds from bounties are a gimmick that only matters when first starting out in Fortuna, as they exist merely to supplement the Debt-Bonds you cannot acquire from Ticker, since Ticker can RNG-lock/timegate you out of the ones you require to rank up in Solaris United in the earlier ranks.  In Fortuna, doing bounties after hitting your daily rep cap also means that you get zero standing from the bounty itself (in other words, you've wasted your time). Another reason why having a token system, if not exclusively for the bounty giver, is a fantastic idea.

I'm not quite sure you understood what I was saying. I did say that Mother tokens (bounty tokens) were the ONLY good ones (they're the only ones without RNG). I did not even attempt to argue that any other part of the Token system was decent except for Grandmother's, as hers is just a direct increase in what a player already has obtained, in terms of rep.

2 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

The bad:

1) The way I see it, the number one issue is that a player has to not only wait to redeem the things they've already grinded for tokens, but also has to come back to the Necralisk every 1-2 hours for 5 minutes to buy another round of tokens with parts that the player has already spent the time to grind. This is absolutely obnoxious, just like purchasing Debt-Bonds from Ticker. Kill this with fire - instead, have set exchange prices for each component or component pair into tokens, to set an expectation of price/expected grind, and then only have discounts/deals be time-limited. I hate having to keep coming back and wasting time to get the payout for things I've already obtained. I think that the current implementation of this system is likely a way to avoid players who find fantastic grind methods (what DE would call an exploit) obtaining components at a rate far above the dev-intended one, then being able to stock up on tokens before DE nerfs those methods.
And to that, I have to say (no offense meant, but) "playtest your own game properly and it won't be an issue". For example, the Necramech grinding 'exploit' that DE 'fixed' 2 hotfixes ago could have been removed pre-launch by someone having the cognizance to realise that since Necramechs drop Mech/Cortege parts, DE should check every player interaction with Necramechs (of which there are five - using one's own Mech, using the quest Mech/the quest Mech fight, transfering into mechs lying around in the Cambion Drift, being assisted by friendly Mechs in the Cambion Drift, and Iso Vault mechs) to see if they would result in unintended drops... especially since the Mechs are one of the highlights of the update.

What part of my post made you think that I thought an RNG token system with timegating was a good idea? You do know that part of something can be good, while other parts of it are at the same time bad, right? And that specifically praising a good part of something is not bad to do, even if a lot of the rest of that something is bad? I did start my post off by saying I'd give credit where credit is due, remember?

 

2) I've been back on PoE since Conservation launched. For a while, using the organically spawned conservations was the best way to obtain rep with the Ostrons, until DE stealthily nerfed out the best place for farming them. I miss the reliability of the triple Kuaka spawn by the beached shark. I just never knew that it was referred to as 'organic' spawns until 3 hours ago, since I avoid DE media, where they do little but make false promises on things like devstreams and the forums.

3 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

The good:

2) Conservation targets all spawn 'organically' (think it was Rebecca who put it that way earlier on this thread) in the Cambion Drift. So, while doing bounties or exploring, a player can find all conservation targets while doing other things in the Cambion Drift. It's not a hassle to do conservation like in Fortuna, where Conservation creatures do NOT spawn organically.
Additionally, there's a Conservation spawn that often happens just outside the door to the Necralisk, that spawns 1-3 Vulpaphyla or Cryptilex in 1 of 3 spots around the door. Just outside the antechamber to the antechamber of the Necralisk, there're 2-3 spawn locations for Predasites/Vulpaphyla/Velocipods. GG EZ, free Son tokens for a moment of your time at a place you were already going to.
If, instead of saying 'Conservation bad, DE pls remove', players instead pulled out their Tranq Rifle when seeing an organic crowd of Conservation targets while on their way from one place to another, they would have also been sitting on a pile of tags and Son tokens before the economy changed.
But hey, now we get more tokens for less effort, and I can spend the tags I planned to use to rank up on Son tokens.  Works for me.

The point is that compared to Fortuna where there are no organic spawns or Cetus where the organic spawns usually die to Grineer hitscan weaponry or Vomvalysts within seconds of spawning in, conservation spawns in the Cambion Drift are numerous with nothing present that consistently instagibs them... so, a direct upgrade in terms of the conservation itself.

The point is that often during bounties, as well as near-guaranteed on return trips to the Necralisk, there is a conservation spawn. I haven't gone out of my way to do conservation except on two occasions; when my friend needed a Medjay Predasite but they did not have a Predasite Echo-Lure (I did), and to grab the last Common Avichea I needed for Entrati rank up. Even so, I am still turning in plenty of spare animal tags for lots of Son tokens. I always buy the Grandmother tokens that cost Son tokens because of how common the Son tokens are.

There's something you're missing here - animal tag gains are boosted by both resource amount boosters as well as Smeeta Kavat's Charm (I exclusively run a Smeeta Kavat), and unlike Fortuna and Cetus conservation, Deimos tags translate directly to rep (in the form of Son tokens). So, that's 2x or 4/8/16/32/64x tags depending on your Smeeta luck and booster, translating to 2x or 4/8/16/32/64x rep. So... how exactly is Deimos conservation worse, again?

Don't get me wrong, the timegate and RNG pricing/availability of Son tokens is obnoxious, I totally agree with you there. But what I'm saying, is that there's an argument to be had about Deimos conservation not being terrible (apart from things like glitched Avichea spawns in walls, but it's week 1, what do you expect?), and instead about players not understanding how to optimise Deimos conservation. You're right, I don't have empathy - not for people who complain before thinking or exploring alternatives.

I can understand someone saying that conservation should be removed from the main progression (rank up requirement) of the Entrati syndicate, since conservation is far removed from the normal gameplay loop of Warframe and many refuse to take part in it. That's perfectly respectable for a Warframe player to say.

But to complain that it isn't rewarding, before fully testing it out? That's willful ignorance and spreading misinformation.

 

3) Oh, forgot the Quassus existed. You're right, my math was indeed bad. Got the 3 Seriglass Shards on day 2 of the update and immediately crafted the Quassus, been sitting on 2 of them for so long while waiting to rank up and have spare rep relative to the next rank up, that I forgot I ever got a 3rd one. Also, that's not 60 minimum Grandmother tokens, that's 60 maximum required for crafting - every subsequent Grandmother token may be exchanged for daily standing (or a useless item like a Captura scene, but that's just a waste), and in fact that's what I've been using to acquire daily standing for the past 3 days - Grandmother tokens.

 

4)

3 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

The good:

4) The Necraloid faction is... alright, I guess. Kind of barebones; not fully fleshed-out; doesn't have much content in it; semantics. Given how much of a slow RNG slog the Mech/Cortege part grind is, a player will have enough Necraloid rep to purchase all items from the faction and max out their reputation at the current max rank 3, with plenty of Orokin Matrices to spare. The rank-up requirements are also easy to obtain. So, Necraloid progression is a breeze, making up for how hollow it is since it can be breezed by.

The bad:

2) The Necraloid faction makes sense, because the goal is to obtain a mech.

It feels like this update was rushed out, likely to meet the arbitrary Tennocon update deadline of August 25th... and a ton of content was tossed aside in said rush.

If I may repeat myself again:

3 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

4) The Necraloid faction is... kind of barebones; not fully fleshed-out; doesn't have much content in it.

I already said that the progression was not an issue, no need to argue against a point that I never made. I also like the MR lock on the Necramechs via blueprint mastery locks - at least something in this update isn't for new players. And considering that the Necraloid currently has only 3 ranks, I would hope that it might be expanded to 5 ranks with the kind of relatively meaningful progression/grind that you've described, at some point in the future.

[IvanIceSpike]

So yeah, the endless excavation bounty is just... eh. Did 25 runs, spanning 4 cycles each, ONLY GOT ENDO, maybe 1 or 2 COMMON CARNIS mods. Also asked other players while I was out, this happened to them too. the rewards are utterly broken there. In the case that they are not really broken, add the jugulus mods as a drop from jugulus, this is ridiculous. I won´t go back to do that bounty unless some patch note says they took the endo prize away, it´s low and overpowers all other prizes in the pool, even other common ones

ALSO, when doing isolation vault solo, I´m never able to ask for a second vault, I must go back to necralisk and the vault that i get is still T1 even though i still have a whole fass cycle going on, tried many things, there´s only t1 going solo it seems, that´s awful

[shootaman777]

1 hour ago, IvanIceSpike said:

So yeah, the endless excavation bounty is just... eh. Did 25 runs, spanning 4 cycles each, ONLY GOT ENDO, maybe 1 or 2 COMMON CARNIS mods. Also asked other players while I was out, this happened to them too. the rewards are utterly broken there. In the case that they are not really broken, add the jugulus mods as a drop from jugulus, this is ridiculous. I won´t go back to do that bounty unless some patch note says they took the endo prize away, it´s low and overpowers all other prizes in the pool, even other common ones

ALSO, when doing isolation vault solo, I´m never able to ask for a second vault, I must go back to necralisk and the vault that i get is still T1 even though i still have a whole fass cycle going on, tried many things, there´s only t1 going solo it seems, that´s awful

That's because it requires specific places where you have to speak to Mother to queue the t2 and t3 vaults in Cambion Drift (location order doesn't matter, just the location does). Let me get some screenshots to show you which ones:

^^ This is the one whose Iso Vault bounty gets used up if you queue the Iso Vault from inside the Necralisk.

This is another one:

^^ Keep in mind, this one is BELOW the cliff overhang.

Here's the third one:

Happy hunting, Tenno! 🙂

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

I think Deimos economy is on point right now.

Excluding the "Son token for rank 1" issue, Deimos is easily the best standing to grind towards today.

There are multiple sources for a multitude of resources, so, e.g., even when you're not mining, you can still earn some ores/gems while casually running a bounty.

PoE standing was OK to max. Fortuna standing was pretty boring. Deimos has been an awesome experience.

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

Small QoL change; Could we make it faster/easier to actually buy tokens? It’s a bit irritating when you’re buying them en mass, since you have to click, load, click, load every time. Just a mild annoyance when you go to clean out Father and Otak’s token store haha

[Almagnus1]

So resources...

Overall, not bad.  Vaults do a good enough job for most of the resources that I can use them instead of fishing or mining (which is fine), and then (theoretically) let fishing and mining focus in on a specific resource... however... the ore Thaumica is just too rare right now.

That, and there needs to be more Scintillant in the economy (I've not seen this drop yet) and the bounties really need to give out Seriglass Shards as a rare reward, and also have their cost reduced at Grandmother reduced.

Most everything else in the faction feels fine, as I feel like I'm able to advance through it reasonably fast, and there's enough other ways to get the needed materials that I'm OK with how things are setup otherwise as it generally feels about where PoE and Fortuna should have been.

[Synpai]

In terms of bounties, I can't stress enough that overly common things should not exist as apart of the drop tables. When a player is doing a new bounty they're doing it for a chance at something new and useful.

Most of my bounty rewards were relics, amber starts, or set mods that drop off of the enemies...these things I can already get plenty of...like anywhere else. Running endless bounties only really has value because it can drop the Jugulus and Saxum set. You could throw in tokens or something that would help players to progress in there to give it more value: necramech mods? random animal tags? Literally anything new that isn't absurdly common like the Carnis set or single amber stars IMO. It'd probably be less painful if the Saxum and Jugulus sets could drop off of enemies.

Also the vault secrets are very much not worth the time.

[3rdpig]

Scintillant still isn't dropping for me. Been playing on and off since the minute it released and still don't have even one. I have all Xaku's parts and all the mats except Thaumic distallate and I'm halfway there on that. I'm building the Helminth segment now. Seems to me that I should have gotten at least 1 scintillant by now.

[mrfluffydeath]

DE. Since The AntiGen and Mutagens are Pred and Vulpa specific. It would be very useful it actually specified somewhere in the description of the item which companion they are meant for, before we a) purchase them and b) before we craft them. 

It is cumbersome and unintuitive to go into the rejuvination/revitalize/reincarnate screen for which ever creature to discover which is necessary.

[master_of_destiny]

7 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

1) In PoE, the only Thumper drops that may be exchanged for Ostron rep are gems (only whole fish may be turned in for standing, not the parts that drop from Thumpers). In the first place, mining is one of the worst ways to get rep in Cetus - because gems have a p1ss poor conversion rate into rep. Fishing is just as bad unless you purchase resource amount AND drop chance boosters (and preferably run a Smeeta Kavat), as well as use bait for the rare fish (Murkrays are the most convenient for Ostron standing at 1k L/625 M/500 S). In Cetus, doing bounties after hitting your daily rep cap still means that you get zero standing from the bounty itself (in other words, you've wasted your time). This is why having a token system, if not exclusively for the bounty giver, is a fantastic idea.

In Fortuna, the content itself is bass-ackwards. Mining rewards the most rep per time spent (more so than bounties, even). Debt-bonds from bounties are a gimmick that only matters when first starting out in Fortuna, as they exist merely to supplement the Debt-Bonds you cannot acquire from Ticker, since Ticker can RNG-lock/timegate you out of the ones you require to rank up in Solaris United in the earlier ranks.  In Fortuna, doing bounties after hitting your daily rep cap also means that you get zero standing from the bounty itself (in other words, you've wasted your time). Another reason why having a token system, if not exclusively for the bounty giver, is a fantastic idea.

I'm not quite sure you understood what I was saying. I did say that Mother tokens (bounty tokens) were the ONLY good ones (they're the only ones without RNG). I did not even attempt to argue that any other part of the Token system was decent except for Grandmother's, as hers is just a direct increase in what a player already has obtained, in terms of rep.

What part of my post made you think that I thought an RNG token system with timegating was a good idea? You do know that part of something can be good, while other parts of it are at the same time bad, right? And that specifically praising a good part of something is not bad to do, even if a lot of the rest of that something is bad? I did start my post off by saying I'd give credit where credit is due, remember?

 

2) I've been back on PoE since Conservation launched. For a while, using the organically spawned conservations was the best way to obtain rep with the Ostrons, until DE stealthily nerfed out the best place for farming them. I miss the reliability of the triple Kuaka spawn by the beached shark. I just never knew that it was referred to as 'organic' spawns until 3 hours ago, since I avoid DE media, where they do little but make false promises on things like devstreams and the forums.

The point is that compared to Fortuna where there are no organic spawns or Cetus where the organic spawns usually die to Grineer hitscan weaponry or Vomvalysts within seconds of spawning in, conservation spawns in the Cambion Drift are numerous with nothing present that consistently instagibs them... so, a direct upgrade in terms of the conservation itself.

The point is that often during bounties, as well as near-guaranteed on return trips to the Necralisk, there is a conservation spawn. I haven't gone out of my way to do conservation except on two occasions; when my friend needed a Medjay Predasite but they did not have a Predasite Echo-Lure (I did), and to grab the last Common Avichea I needed for Entrati rank up. Even so, I am still turning in plenty of spare animal tags for lots of Son tokens. I always buy the Grandmother tokens that cost Son tokens because of how common the Son tokens are.

There's something you're missing here - animal tag gains are boosted by both resource amount boosters as well as Smeeta Kavat's Charm (I exclusively run a Smeeta Kavat), and unlike Fortuna and Cetus conservation, Deimos tags translate directly to rep (in the form of Son tokens). So, that's 2x or 4/8/16/32/64x tags depending on your Smeeta luck and booster, translating to 2x or 4/8/16/32/64x rep. So... how exactly is Deimos conservation worse, again?

Don't get me wrong, the timegate and RNG pricing/availability of Son tokens is obnoxious, I totally agree with you there. But what I'm saying, is that there's an argument to be had about Deimos conservation not being terrible (apart from things like glitched Avichea spawns in walls, but it's week 1, what do you expect?), and instead about players not understanding how to optimise Deimos conservation. You're right, I don't have empathy - not for people who complain before thinking or exploring alternatives.

I can understand someone saying that conservation should be removed from the main progression (rank up requirement) of the Entrati syndicate, since conservation is far removed from the normal gameplay loop of Warframe and many refuse to take part in it. That's perfectly respectable for a Warframe player to say.

But to complain that it isn't rewarding, before fully testing it out? That's willful ignorance and spreading misinformation.

 

3) Oh, forgot the Quassus existed. You're right, my math was indeed bad. Got the 3 Seriglass Shards on day 2 of the update and immediately crafted the Quassus, been sitting on 2 of them for so long while waiting to rank up and have spare rep relative to the next rank up, that I forgot I ever got a 3rd one. Also, that's not 60 minimum Grandmother tokens, that's 60 maximum required for crafting - every subsequent Grandmother token may be exchanged for daily standing (or a useless item like a Captura scene, but that's just a waste), and in fact that's what I've been using to acquire daily standing for the past 3 days - Grandmother tokens.

 

4)

If I may repeat myself again:

I already said that the progression was not an issue, no need to argue against a point that I never made. I also like the MR lock on the Necramechs via blueprint mastery locks - at least something in this update isn't for new players. And considering that the Necraloid currently has only 3 ranks, I would hope that it might be expanded to 5 ranks with the kind of relatively meaningful progression/grind that you've described, at some point in the future.

1) Let's compare the gains for infinitely farmable items on Cetus and Deimos.  I'm going to do the math, because apparently "bad" is all you can say.  I'm not going to comment on boosters, because a booster influences both the drop of material (specifically gems) on PoE as well as the tags for Deimos and thus is  fallacious argument.  Per before, at best you're going to get 4-5 tags per token for the son, of 100-125 standing per capture.  What then is the value of minerals?

Azurite/Devar - 50

Veridos -75

Crimzian - 100

Sentirum/Nyth - 400

The math here is pretty simple, so I'm not going to show the permutations.  Short answer, murdering a single thumper can net you a lot of standing, their spawn is 90-120 seconds at minimum.  You've therefore far outstripped the ability to gain standing when compared to the random spawn of up to 3 enemies which are worth about 125 each, or 375 standing.  This is especially true when you consider the ransom repayment of tags.  Your comment about "poor pricing" also fails to account for getting way more than one gem at a time.

As a side note here, what about the rest of the minerals?  Welcome to Deimos.  The new stuff actually requires ferros to craft, meaning that going back to PoE or having huge stashes from previous runs is now ideal.  This integration between the open worlds is frustrating to players who did minimum resource acquisition, but means people who have tons of the resources are now just dandy.  I know I'm looking at 660 of each processed metal, and it's going to make kitgun and other crafting much easier.

As a point of clarification, my commentary is that the tokens are broken here because of the RNG and timer.  Both of these things have been implemented as a means to prevent people from simply grinding out insane amounts of standing.  My point here is that this is integral to the system to prevent abuse and extend engagement, so the system as structured needs to go.  You can't look at one part and say it's good, and ignore the vital other part that is bad.  It's a complete system, hence the good and bad being irrelevant commentary when the removal of the "bad" would lead to an economy broken and centered exclusively on grinding.

 

2) Let's do some conservation comparison.  I'm going to PoE , and need 20k standing.  To get it, I run the door circuit as a Loki.  Invisibility means no grineer animal kills, all perfect, and the circuit means I can get kuakas and condrocs.  Kuakas are worth 500 a pop at minimum, where they spawn at 3 per area.  Condros are worth more, and also spawn at 3 per area.  The net effect is each group is worth in excess of 1000 standing period.  If I get the same 3 target spawn on Deimos it's worth less than a tag, or less than 500 standing.  Now let's talk Fortuna.    

The trash animals on Fortuna spawn 3 at once (pobbers) from conservation points.  They reward about the same as Kuakas on PoE, which is more than Deimos.  The great enemies on Fortuna spawn 1 at a time, but produce many thousands of affinity for a single capture.  In effect 5 hunts will max daily standing, get you tags (10 with a booster) which you can trade for floofs if you want, and takes 10-20 minutes at most. 

Let's factor all of this in, and get ranges.

Deimos grants the worst standing per capture.

Deimos burns away tags to get standing, so each of those floofs is now a statement that you don't care about the standing costs.

PoE generates the most random spawn standing gains.

Fortuna  generates the greatest rewards per conservation tracking event.

Tags in Fortuna and PoE are only useful for getting floofs after standing is maxed...but there's no associated direct cost or potential reward.  

Once a creature is weakened it doesn't give a tag, setting up competition for pet creation and tags.

The end game here is that Deimos is by far the worst area for conservation.  The mitigating factor is theoretically no limitation on earnings and never having a horde of tags.  Neither of these things are acceptable, given this is a game for hording and that the token system has two hard limits on the theoretical limitless earning which make real earnings far less lucrative.

So, what's my point?  Numerically Deimos is the worst conservation area, and that's easy to demonstrate with numbers.  Deimos sets up a system where floofs are not a reward, but a solid cost.  I must like floofs then, right?  Nope, I hate them.  They're a distraction from improving core systems, but I also acknowledge that people like them.  As they are an art asset, and people do want them, I have a problem when DE introduces a less rewarding system which effectively makes getting floofs a large opportunity cost.  Son definitely fits the phrase of "large opportunity cost."  This is the core argument, not lazy players.  I would also touch on the bugged in-wall spawns....but that's entirely different.  Expecting DE makes a huge release, and has core features not working, is not acceptable.  Noting a significant decrease in economy is unacceptable.  Taking away that little bit of happiness floofs offer is depressing.  This isn't lazy players, it people expressing frustration with a bad system but not articulating the issues well.

 

3) Fair.  I find that 4 runs of the tier 4 bounty offer in excess of 302 mother tokens.  That's max daily standing.  I'm accumulating the other tokens to get the seriglass shard, but right now I cannot afford the blue prints because I want to rank up.  In my book, that's a decent progression.  I actually have to decide whether to rank up or get the content.  Considering the Zymos is very niche, and the claws were also very niche, I'm going to spend that standing on  level up to stop this family fighting.  Hopefully at maximum rank the family is a little less...frustrating to deal with.

I will say though that Grandmother is frustrating.  If you're going to claim that a "Captura Artist" is a thing then hiding scenes behind 50 Grandmother tokens is nuts.  While you and I might look at that and simply blow a raspberry, there's a case to be made for slightly less grindy costs.

 

4) My point here is that praise should not be offered.  The item I'm focused on is: "...The rank-up requirements are also easy to obtain. So, Necraloid progression is a breeze, making up for how hollow it is since it can be breezed by."

Let's talk about learned lessons, and what should have been done.  PoE and Fortuna introduced their secondary factions well after launch.  They offered content via amps and arcanes, with cosmetics tacked on for anyone so inclined.  That was decent design, and launching after mainline release to allow for enough to be developed to matter.  Instead of learning from this, we're forced to grind the provided mission an insane amount of times to get RNG mech part drops, then more to get mods.  No lessons learned from the 5% drop chances of arcanes from eidolons, or the need for direct purchasing options via the Scarlet Spear event.  Ouch.  As such, progression in the syndicate is largely a placeholder, and DE should not have released it.

What I am reading is that the progression is acceptable.  Maybe that's not intended.  I will offer that it was a potential misunderstanding and apologize for that, assuming such.

 

 

-Edit-

I should define what I mean by the door circuit.  Once you leave Cetus go left, past the first pond, until you reach the large bifurcated pond where the lures spawn at night.  Turn right, and travel until you hit the tent structure with the turret and defense objective.  Turn right again, travelling along the edge of both ponds.  You'll be stopped by the lake at the center of Cetus.  Turn right and strafe along this lake, until you reach its end.  Turn right again, and progress forward until the gate is on your left.  Repeat until you've captured enough stuff to matter.  This loop is long enough to allow respawn of entities, but travels through about 10 spawning locations.  A bad loop is 2 kuaka spawns, while a good loop can be 4 condroc spawns.  That's a total of 12 condrocs or a minimum of 12000 standing.

[Almagnus1]

Suggested Bounty Changes:

1. Add Scintillant as a common reward to all of the bounties
2. Remove the Ayatan Amber stars from the bounties (there are enough other ways to get these that the reward is about as useful as credits), replace with like 10x Thaumic Distillate or 10x Thaumica
3. Rework the Steel Path bounty rewards to the following:

• Common
  • 2,000 Endo
  • 2x Scintillant
  • 1000x Kuva
• Uncommon
  • 20x Thaumica/Thaumic Distallate
  • Random Radiant Axi Relic
• Rare
  • Serriglass Shard

[fr4gb4ll]

so you list 'scintillant' as a 'common' reward in the 2nd bounty but are hiding the 'real' chance for it... not very funny. as per your reward table:

	Stage 1
	600 Endo	Common (45.00%)
	Vazarin Lens	Uncommon (17.50%)
	Unairu Lens	Uncommon (17.50%)
	Shrapnel Shot	Uncommon (12.50%)
	Scintillant	Rare (7.50%)
	Stage 2, Stage 3 of 4, and Stage 3 of 5
	600 Endo	Uncommon (22.50%)
	Vazarin Lens	Rare (8.75%)
	Unairu Lens	Rare (8.75%)
	Shrapnel Shot	Rare (6.25%)
	Scintillant	Rare (3.75%)
	Meso D5 Relic	Uncommon (25.00%)
	Xaku Neuroptics Blueprint	Rare (7.50%)
	Sharpened Bullets	Rare (8.75%)
	Bladed Rounds	Rare (8.75%)
	Stage 4 of 5
	600 Endo	Uncommon (18.00%)
	Vazarin Lens	Rare (7.00%)
	Unairu Lens	Rare (7.00%)
	Shrapnel Shot	Rare (5.00%)
	Scintillant	Rare (3.00%)
	Meso D5 Relic	Uncommon (20.00%)
	Xaku Neuroptics Blueprint	Rare (6.00%)
	Sharpened Bullets	Rare (7.00%)
	Bladed Rounds	Rare (7.00%)
	Maiming Strike	Uncommon (20.00%)
	Final Stage
	Meso D5 Relic	Common (33.33%)
	Xaku Neuroptics Blueprint	Uncommon (10.00%)
	Sharpened Bullets	Uncommon (11.67%)
	Bladed Rounds	Uncommon (11.67%)
	Maiming Strike	Common (33.33%)

...not only is 'scintillan' the rarest reward in the common reward section, it's the rarest reward of them all! even the seemingly rare maiming strike has 33,33%...

you know there is a term for this: deceit - some would even say fraud... but at least you did state the chances in the reward table and only hide the chance behind the 'common' aspect in the bounty selection. then again, you probably know how few people are actually care to look at the table for verification - i also only did after getting my 6th 'rare' reward and only one 'common' scintillant in about 2 hours of doing this one bounty.

so, change the damn chances or tell the people the true, miserable chance to get that stuff.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

37 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

so you list 'scintillant' as a 'common' reward in the 2nd bounty but are hiding the 'real' chance for it... not very funny. as per your reward table:

......

...not only is 'scintillan' the rarest reward in the common reward section, it's the rarest reward of them all! even the seemingly rare maiming strike has 33,33%...

you know there is a term for this: deceit - some would even say fraud... but at least you did state the chances in the reward table and only hide the chance behind the 'common' aspect in the bounty selection. then again, you probably know how few people are actually care to look at the table for verification - i also only did after getting my 6th 'rare' reward and only one 'common' scintillant in about 2 hours of doing this one bounty.

so, change the damn chances or tell the people the true, miserable chance to get that stuff.

Lol. Yeah I did the bounty for an hour, didn't get any and figured it was not as common as implied. So I just farm in the vaults - although even since their hot fix, I've only seen it 3 times in 50+ runs, two of which times it didn't appear until after a host migration mid-vault.

At least I've gotten what i needed as drops from killed mechs in the vault combined with timely smeeta procs.

 

[_Blackeye_]

Scintillant is a big problem. If the common drop from the bounties is fixed this will be solved.

But the biggest problem I see are the seriglass shards. Granny asks 20 tokens/shard and we need 60 tokens (!) to build the new weapons. If getting all the different tokens was easier then sure. But some of the tokens are just too hard to get + we're being forced to do things we don't want to do. I think it's more reasonable for the shards to cost 5 granny tokens.

Also (don't know where to put this), the 'feature' of having to do all 3 ISO tiers in 1 cycle is just annoying as there's no difference between doing it in the 2 cycles. Pls disable that...

[xZephyrosx]

This resource Scintillant ..... i cant even put too words what DE did and how that makes me feel. As a long time player and even as a founder i have never seen this before. Even the Cetus Wisp was more common back then... If they will not fix this fast it will make more and more players leave the game.