Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[Duality52]

Grandmother should be the new Ticker who holds all the family's Tokens. Change the Token gains from each of the activities to Standing gain. The resources needed to purchase the Tokens can be random similar to Ticker's Debt Bonds. Some Token(s) should be purchased with just Credits and/or Star Chart resources.

[LixSin]

The token system is great, why do people complain about it? A single bounty mission can give you 10,000 standing worth of tokens. And you can hoard them, so you can play a bunch of bounties when you have some time, and then trade them in at other days where you don't have so much time to play. That's a fantastic improvement and greatly DEcreases the grind. It's so much better then Cetus standing (Fortuna is good now, but was worse at launch).

Fishing and mining has also been required for Cetus and Fortuna, so that isn't new, only Conservation was purely optional before.

There is one big problem in the economy, and that is the Son Tokens, which are much more tedious to acquire then the rest. But there are two easy fixes for that: give us Son Tokens for good/perfect captures and add tags to the vault rewards. Then you'd have a pretty sweet standing economy.

[Eidolor]

Can’t agree with keeping popular signature abilities from helminth, and nerfing ones that do make it. I don’t understand how that’s supposed to encourage broader play. 
 

The way it is now, we have to use specific frames for their specific abilities if we want to be the best or most efficient. Allowing those powerful abilities on other frames with full functionality would encourage us to play frames we may find more fun or better looking but otherwise wouldn’t run.

[Kaggelos]

1 hour ago, Yuilogy said:

not sure if this applies here but in order to progress in the syndicate the first rank requires the spinal cords, I have cut up a number of the fish that are required and not gotten any spinal core sections, is it that this isnt garunteed drop or is this a bug?

I have the exact same issue, cant get any Spinal Core Sections from that particular fish (Vitreospina)

[Redfeather75]

I have fished so much that my hand hurts and I've only gotten 1 spine.

How can this be the first offering for the rank up. This is inconsiderate of our time.

I just do not understand this philosophy of avoiding making things entertaining. This is supposed to be a game for christ's sake.

[Cyanil]

The system just feels too convoluted for no reason. And the bounties are worst and longer. Did you enjoy defending 3 excavs in Fortuna? No? Now defend 5!

[(PSN)Glitschig]

So...the thing missing from Warframe right now is...war.

You don't want me to fight.  You want me to fish (which I do every freaking week for Nightwave).  You want me to mine (which I do every stinking week for nightwave it seems).  You want me to conserve.  I'm not Steve Irwin.

 I'm here to play a game, experiment with a new system and have fun, not clock on to the job and play three of the most non-warframe activities in the game.  I just want to cry.  I really wanted this to be a positive turning point but you put us in a corner here because our minds will go numb doing things we likely have done SO much in this game already and don't do much of now just for the sake of getting to the one thing we wanted to try new and be excited about.  

This will end one of two ways for a lot of us-we either ignore it until we buy the helminth segment if possible or we just ignore it altogether.  Of the dozen or so people I know who I would say I know who play this game a lot, ALL were actually eager for this and right now, ALL are not playing Warframe after seeing this roll out.  I am the only one online and I'm running relics because I just can't stand the thought of tons of hours fishing, mining and capturing for the millionth time because I have to instead of it just being something I do when I want. 

[icybirdy44]

I don't mind the side-activities being a part of progression, since it was basically the same in Fortuna (it was technically standing-based, but crafting anything at all required getting materials from other tasks), but I will agree that conservation seems a bit slower, progression-wise, than everything else. Perhaps make bad/good/perfect captures give proportionately boosted tag amounts, or reduce token requirements? Catching every Velocipod in sight helps a bit, but the nature of the token trading limits even that method.
Having a few days grind before getting Helminth is disappointing for me as it is for everyone, but that's probably a weird result of the fact the community was more hyped over the side feature than the major content update.

On another note, I'm really getting to like the Entrati. They had a deliberately poor first impression-dysfunctional, neglectful, surprisingly patricidal, but as I'm finding out more about them I'm enjoying the interactions. So far Daughter

Spoiler

/Kaelli

is my favourite, for the main reason that she and Nakak are the only NPCs who feel like people first and NPC vendors second. Like, she isn't the fish vendor because somebody has to be the fish vendor, she's an aquarium nerd who got upset her brother flushed her tropical fish collection down the toilet.

[Borg1611]

18 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

I have fished so much that my hand hurts and I've only gotten 1 spine.

 

I got mine fishing in a cave and using the bait things we have from just picking them up off the ground. Those attract the kind of fish that drops spines I believe. 

You could also potentially get them from the vault things. I just did one and got 2 spines, but the rewards are random and you have to successfully complete the bonus to get the resources. 

[(PSN)Furiel_CoA]

20 minutes ago, Kaggelos said:

I have the exact same issue, cant get any Spinal Core Sections from that particular fish (Vitreospina)

I've cut up 25 of them so far, I've gotten 2 Spinal Cores. Either it's bugged or it's RNG on if you get the part you want. On top of that, you don't get to see the parts you get after you commit to cutting the fish. So you have to either go into your inventory to look or travel to Mother and try to rank up, then find out you STILL don't have enough. I have to believe this is a bug because it's a rare fish type and parts were always a guaranteed drop on the Plains and Fortuna.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

7 minutes ago, Cyanil said:

The system just feels too convoluted for no reason. 

Very much this. Now we are gated not just behind RNG, Standing Caps, Donation requirements - but they added a new gate: obscurity. 🤣 

I do like the ability to bank the tokens however as I don't have the time to play every day to max daily standing, but might find 3 hours on a random day that I could do more than one days work..

And I'll +1 on the forced conservation being distasteful.  

[Redfeather75]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Furiel_CoA said:

I've cut up 25 of them so far, I've gotten 2 Spinal Cores.

Isn't that insane? I just don't understand why the game both comes up with such cool places and ideas and then keeps moving towards gating things with such soul killing requirements.

[zordox]

I feel like we're being trolled by DE. There's no way a collective group of intelligent individuals thought anyone would like this token system. "Convoluted" is an understatement. This is chaos. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit cause i'm annoyed but still. wtf.  

[Xylena_Lazarow]

42 minutes ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

...I quite like the conservation system. A lot of my clanmates do too. It's a fun diversion with fun rewards. Given how much the community loves floofs, I'm pretty sure you're very much in the minority here when you say you don't like the hunting simulator.

Judging by the number of threads and posts on "forced" conservation, you seem to underestimate how many people dislike it, and dislike that there are no core combat alternatives to conservation for progressing through the Entrati syndicate, nor any credit options like Ticker or the plat options that exist on the fishing and mining NPCs.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

This forced requirement to do conservation and mining is straight up bad. Let me do bounties and play Warframe to progress syndicates, not fishing, conservation, mining, or spending Platinum (to buy fish parts/gems/ores) to get these dumb tokens.

Remove Tokens

Remove Grandmother

Make this like PoE/Fortuna with multiple avenues for progression and just use standing. Stuffing non-combat activities down players' throats isn't fun.

This. Please. Like dear God DE wtf.

[Cerikus]

Do people not realize that they can almost fully ignore fishing, mining and conservation and farm standing just by doing bounties? 

AM I THE STUPID?

Or do I just pay more attention before I start to whine on forums?

[Bedefec]

1 minute ago, Cerikus said:

Do people not realize that they can almost fully ignore fishing, mining and conservation and farm standing just by doing bounties? 

AM I THE STUPID?

Or do I just pay more attention before I start to whine on forums?

Sure, to get standing for the syndicate. But you need Son tokens and Daughter tokens to rank up in the syndicate, meaning you have to do conservation to rank up to rank 3.

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

I know you want to keep players and vets busy, but this is YET another example of "DE forcing an obscene grinding down our throats, DE realizing the grinding is too much, DE patching it up and compensating players".

 

It happened with Liches. It happened with Railjack. It happened with Scarlet Spear. 

 

After all those controversial updates you would think that they'd be more careful in this next one, but no, they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

 

Tokens are a mistake. Please remove them. Cetus and Fortuna grind was fine, everyone was happy with that, don't force us to do conservation or fishing. 

 

[Cerikus]

Just now, Bedefec said:

Sure, to get standing for the syndicate. But you need Son tokens and Daughter tokens to rank up in the syndicate, meaning you have to do conservation to rank up to rank 3.

That's why I said "almost fully".

If people react like this because they refuse to do a sideactivity for a few minutes, they should seriously reconsider playing videogames.

[LixSin]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)FastestKnight said:

Tokens are a mistake. Please remove them. Cetus and Fortuna grind was fine, everyone was happy with that, don't force us to do conservation or fishing. 

 

No they aren't, they are a massive improvement over the old standing system.

[Borg1611]

Getting specific tokens like Son tokens is mostly annoying to me because of the bizarre RNG turn in system. Just let me turn in tags for tokens in a more direct way, don't make me have to check back with the vendor every so often to see if it has a combination I can turn in with what I have. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)FastestKnight said:

Tokens are a mistake.

Tokens are fine if there are different avenues to obtain them. When the only avenue is MMO minigames, players interested in core combat are turned off.

[Cerikus]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)FastestKnight said:

I know you want to keep players and vets busy, but this is YET another example of "DE forcing an obscene grinding down our throats, DE realizing the grinding is too much, DE patching it up and compensating players".

 

It happened with Liches. It happened with Railjack. It happened with Scarlet Spear. 

 

After all those controversial updates you would think that they'd be more careful in this next one, but no, they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

 

Tokens are a mistake. Please remove them. Cetus and Fortuna grind was fine, everyone was happy with that, don't force us to do conservation or fishing. 

 

You all people have a memory of a goldfish. You are selectively remembering stuff just to be edgy on forums.

Lets break it down:

OSTRON:
RANK 1: Nistlepod 25, Iradite 25, Grokdrul 25
RANK 2: Tear Azurite 10, Pyrol 40, Fish Scales 60
RANK 3: Cetus wisp, Maprico 5
RANK 4: Maprico 10, Fersteel Alloy 40, Murkray Liver 5
RANK 5: Nyth, Sentrium, Norg BRain, Cuthol Tendrils

SOLARIS UNITED
RANK 1: 13 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 2: 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 12 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 3: 10 Training Debt-bonds, 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 13 Medical Debt-bonds
RANK 4: 13 Advances Debt-bonds, 10 Medical Debt-bonds, 12 Shelter Debt-bonds
RANK 5: 12 Advances Debt-bonds, 12 Medical Debt-bonds, 10 Familial Debt-bonds

Where Debt-bonds were bought from Ticker for various resources:

5,000-350,000 ‍

0-16,000 Alloy Plate

0-36 Axidrol Alloy

0-15 Brickie Muon Battery

0-4,000 Circuits

0-5,000 Cryotic

0-10 Echowinder Anoscopic Sensor

0-10 Eye-Eye Rotoblade

0-15,000 Ferrite

0-20 Goblite Tears

0-12 Gorgaricus Spore

0-17 Heart Noctrul

0-3 Kriller Thermal Laser

0-10 Mirewinder Parallel Biode

0-15 Mytocardia Spore

0-15,000 Nano Spores

0-3 Neurodes

0-3,000 Oxium

0-4,000 Plastids

0-4,000 Polymer Bundle

0-10 Recaster Neural Relay

0-4,000 Rubedo

0-24 Sapcaddy Venedo Case

0-10 Scrubber Exa Brain

0-15,000 Salvage

0-16 Smooth Phasmin

0-5 Tepa Nodule

0-12 Thermal Sludge

0-10 Tink Dissipator Coil

0-44 Travocyte Alloy

0-20 Venerdo Alloy

 

SOOOO 

How exactly  was "Cetus and Fortuna grind fine" 
How exactly DE "didn't force us to do conservation or fishing"

Grow up people.

[Bedefec]

6 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

That's why I said "almost fully".

If people react like this because they refuse to do a sideactivity for a few minutes, they should seriously reconsider playing videogames.

And I would totally agree with that, if the grind to get the Son tokens wasn't so slow. You can only get 1 tag from each hunt, if you are doing the tracking portion to farm a specific tag, and at most 3 tags if you find and tranq a pack that randomly spawns. I've seen a single token cost 17 tags for the first pobber-like creature. Even if the Son token gives 500 standing for one that seems way out of line for the amount of time required compared to the other tokens you can get. If they can balance the time investment in conservation to the token gain then I'm all for it.

[Bedefec]

Don't forget you can also get bonds as a reward for bounties