Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[FrostyNovaPrime]

The token system seems excessive. A good way to make it seem like a family home instead of a marketplace/town, but excessive.

I'm keeping in mind that it is only day one, but it seems like you have to grind for various types of resources to possibly not be able to cash in on as many family tokens as you'd like, and then trade in what you can to not have enough for Grandmother's tokens. Yes, you can just run bounties constantly for Mother tokens to get standing fast, but then you run into the rank up wall of needs the others.

I'd probably say reduce the costs per token bundle and/or increase the standing gained from turning in. Let us filter by what we can redeem and hide bundles requiring items we can't obtain just yet (most applies to Daughter/Son tokens).

 

And reduce the sacrifice requirements for ranking up. 10 Orokin Matrices, 150 traces, 20 Father tokens, and a Zymos blueprint just to get rank 1 with Necraloid is borderline absurd.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

On 2020-08-25 at 10:46 PM, devildevil21 said:

My entire feedback on the new update after 8h of gameplay:

There are no bosses (kinda wish there were), the necramechs are as rare as an eclipse (saw 2 DURING bounties. None outside of bounties).

The Orokin old towers/vaults are locked in free roam. You need to start "isolation vault" to get inside one of those orokin caves (which sucks cause I wanted to explore them too...)

We got 2 huge caves and 3~5 normal caves with reused entire cave parts. The same orokin "destroyed cave" can be found in 3 of the caves, exactly the same in the 3. I was expecting more variation...

But excluding exploration and mechas (which are locked at rank 2 of necroloid, for REASONS!!!....) I'd say I enjoyed the mining, fishing and animal hunting. The bounties are fun but a bit repetitive with the corpus part of collecting samples.

The isolation vault is annoying without having a mecha ourselves. The enemy mecha is constantly moving making it difficult to hit his weak spots and to make matters worse, if you stand still for 1.5s you die. That's how much damage he does.

 

Considering the trailers and what DE has said... I honestly expected more of this open world. Still looking forward to unlocking the mechas and the helminth system (I also loved the new player tutorial), but the actual cambian drift? Disappointing. 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, scintillant is AWFUL to get. A really low drop amount from bounties and an even lower drop rate, I spammed the 15~25 bounty a total of 19 times and I got exactly ONE TIME scintillant to drop. Considering father's tokens (the big ones, 3x, 4x and 5x) all require scintillant, this is honestly awful.

I know iv done 23 missions and have only gotten 2 scintillant to drop the drop rates are horible even for the parts you need to build a necromech 

I killed 19 necromechs and have only gotten 1 part from them 

 

Edit) iv now killed 58 necromechs and still have only one part i realy hate the RNG of the broken necromech parts and the scintillant 

[AreeSoothsayer]

Okay... what the hell is with this?

Fass residue needed to make the stuff for the new companions... except it doesn't show up when you get it.

However there is Processed Residue at Assosiate rank... making everything to do with making pets below that rank... a troll move.

I am very unhappy with you.

 

However if it's a bug stopping the regular Residue from being used then nevermind this.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

4 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

See, the tokens themselves aren't the issue here. The issue is how difficult they are to obtain and the overspecialization of every token. It's like you took Ticker's trade-in, locked the trades to only new resources, made each tier of Debt-Bond equivalent require a different activity, then made the Debt-Bond equivalents required for literally everything.

I came here to make a similar post, and you nailed it. 

For my own thoughts, the token system isn't necessarily bad, but the difference here and with Fortuna is getting debt bonds from Ticker was another way to get standing. Here, we only have tokens to obtain standing. If the bounties awarded standing and tokens it would be tremendously better. Heck everything from Fortuna/Cetus is better than what we have currently. 

[(PSN)palebluelight]

You killed my desire to play this update once I did a full set of bounties and talked to the whole family. I hate mining, fishing, and conservation they're not warframe. These have never been fun. Stop investing in mechanics that slow progression and squeeze 100's of hours out of us. I feel stupid for doing poe and fortuna in the end all I got that I enjoy was baruuk and even he isn't enough reward for all that wasted time.

[Yuilogy]

DEAR DEVS

Positive:

The token system allows you to farm whenever you would like and then turn in when you need, meaning you dont have to stop doing bounties when you hit your cap which is fantastic.The ability to gain standing through tokens whenever you want is great for players who cant play as much whether new or old.

Having multiple avenues of earning rep is great.

Being able to buy tokens  (REP) for resources from the different family members and trade in to grandmother to maximize standing gain whenever you want is also really nice

 

Negative:

Rank Up costs are not good! Forcing to do certain objectives to rank up is not ideal.

 

Overall:

Love the ability to get standing easily whenever i want while multitasking but rank up costs are too weird.

 

DEAR PLAYERS

Ill start by saying the only difference between this syndicate and Fortuna is that the bounties reward tokens not direct rep. Having other means of getting rep i.e. tokens or DEBT BONDS is the same.

Differences between Fortuna/Cetus syndicates and Entrati Syndicate:

Entradi rep is given in tokens to allow the player to store it for a later date while fortuna/ceuts requires the player to recieve the rep now or never so too bad if ur at  cap

Similarities between Fortuna/Cetus syndicates and Entrati Syndicate:

REP for bounties

REP from trading fish in to vendor

REP for trading mining resources to vendor

REP for Conservation

 

SO plz stop saying how different it is and how terrible it is the only major difference is the fact that it helps players who cant play everyday. YES there are S#&$ty rank up costs but thats a one time thing.

 

[Jarriaga]

I like the token system. Mother tokens yield more standing per mission than Fortuna and Cetus bounties. They are also a very nice thematic implementation signaling each member of the family is only concerned about their own stuff.

That said, I think the costs for other tokens is a bit steep. Should be lowered at least by 25%.

Also, what is the benefit for doing a perfect capture vs. a bad capture with Son? If you'd at least get a token with a perfect capture you'd be incentivized to not be sloppy.

[Sweg178]

12 minutes ago, Yuilogy said:

you dont have to stop doing bounties when you hit your cap which is fantastic

yes ..i was also thinking about this ..you can basically do bounties all day for drops and it will come to your aid later on .ii dont like to do bounties everyday ,, now i can save tokens for later use. it is an upgrade if you ask me. also i dont see a problem of using other tokens to rank up . they are not forcing you to earn standings by catching fish and wild lives.i dont get why players are so upset about it ... if you are ok mining and fishing for night wave every week why are you so upset about mining and fishing for something you only need to do three times

[LukeSestir73]

Given how important Scintillants can be to the economy, both in building Xaku and in earning Father Tokens quickly, I'd suggest adding them to the Isolation Vaults in some way, especially given how the Isolation Vault seems to be the primary activity for driving players back to the Cambion Drift.

I absolutely love the Isolation Vault, it's a really simple and enjoyable new activity with a lot of replay value, but if I want Xaku or to gain standing with the Entrati quickly, I feel as though I'm forced out of the new activity you designed. It feels as though, without adding the Scintillants, or even more rewards, to the Isolation Vaults, they'll wind up falling to the wayside, without much reason to run them.

Just my 2 cents, though.

[OniDax]

Forcing Conservation was a very big mistake. Conservation is even worse in Deimos than it is in the other open worlds. It's less rewarding, more grindy, and animals are harder to identify once they're attacked because they bug out and stop glowing, and sometimes go invisible.

Locking the Helminth Chrysalis system behind Conservation was an even bigger mistake. Stop trying to force players to do unpopular content just because you failed to make a popular system. It's spiteful to do that.

Regarding Tokens, it's nice that we can stockpile tokens, but it's terrible that they're the only way to get standing. Tokens should be relegated to Rank Up rewards, with the option to trade them in for standing, and Standing should still be gained directly through doing Bounties. Tokens should also depend much more heavily on existing resources, much like Ticker's Debt Bonds in Fortuna. The Entrati Token system is a worse version of the Debt Bonds system right now.

Regarding Resources, it would be nice if some of the more common ones (needed for basic items), like Adramalium and Scintillants, had a higher drop chance and some clarity on how to acquire them (i.e. which resources in the open world, what they look like, etc.). It's not very clear at all where they drop and it's easy to miss them when picking them up (meaning it's hard to track where we got them from).

Right now, the Entrati syndicate is way too grindy, particularly for getting through Rank 2. Rank Up costs are also too high, particularly for Ranks 1-3.

Overall, Deimos is interesting but the standing system for this moon makes the experience abysmal. It's not fun, and I'm already at the point where I can't wait to be done with it forever. At this rate, I don't even care about the Necramechs. I just want to get to Rank 3, unlock the Helminth system, and be done with Deimos.

42 minutes ago, Sweg178 said:

yes ..i was also thinking about this ..you can basically do bounties all day for drops and it will come to your aid later on .ii dont like to do bounties everyday ,, now i can save tokens for later use. it is an upgrade if you ask me. also i dont see a problem of using other tokens to rank up . they are not forcing you to earn standings by catching fish and wild lives.i dont get why players are so upset about it ... if you are ok mining and fishing for night wave every week why are you so upset about mining and fishing for something you only need to do three times

Nightwave doesn't force you to mine, fish, or conserve. You can choose to skip those tasks if you want to. PoE and Orb Vallis don't force you to conserve. Understand this: by locking major content behind these activities, yes, the game is forcing you to engage in these activities in order to acquire that content. Considering the Helminth system is major content that is otherwise unrelated to Heart of Deimos, the game is forcing you to engage in unrelated, unpopular, and broken systems in order to gain access to the Helminth system. That's a problem. It wouldn't be a big problem if it weren't so broken.

And, to be clear, mining and fishing aren't that egregious that it's a huge deal to require that content. However, conservation on Deimos is broken, unrewarding, and grindy. It needs to be toned down. It needs to be more rewarding (guaranteed tags when rescuing animals, whether perfect captures or good captures), animals need to always glow when using the tranq (even if they're being attacked), the glow needs to be much larger when viewing them from a distance, and DE needs to greatly reduce the requirements for purchasing tokens from the Son.

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

You all people have a memory of a goldfish. You are selectively remembering stuff just to be edgy on forums.

Lets break it down:

OSTRON:
RANK 1: Nistlepod 25, Iradite 25, Grokdrul 25
RANK 2: Tear Azurite 10, Pyrol 40, Fish Scales 60
RANK 3: Cetus wisp, Maprico 5
RANK 4: Maprico 10, Fersteel Alloy 40, Murkray Liver 5
RANK 5: Nyth, Sentrium, Norg BRain, Cuthol Tendrils

SOLARIS UNITED
RANK 1: 13 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 2: 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 12 Training Debt-bonds
RANK 3: 10 Training Debt-bonds, 15 Shelter Debt-bonds, 13 Medical Debt-bonds
RANK 4: 13 Advances Debt-bonds, 10 Medical Debt-bonds, 12 Shelter Debt-bonds
RANK 5: 12 Advances Debt-bonds, 12 Medical Debt-bonds, 10 Familial Debt-bonds

Where Debt-bonds were bought from Ticker for various resources:

5,000-350,000 ‍

0-16,000 Alloy Plate

0-36 Axidrol Alloy

0-15 Brickie Muon Battery

0-4,000 Circuits

0-5,000 Cryotic

0-10 Echowinder Anoscopic Sensor

0-10 Eye-Eye Rotoblade

0-15,000 Ferrite

0-20 Goblite Tears

0-12 Gorgaricus Spore

0-17 Heart Noctrul

0-3 Kriller Thermal Laser

0-10 Mirewinder Parallel Biode

0-15 Mytocardia Spore

0-15,000 Nano Spores

0-3 Neurodes

0-3,000 Oxium

0-4,000 Plastids

0-4,000 Polymer Bundle

0-10 Recaster Neural Relay

0-4,000 Rubedo

0-24 Sapcaddy Venedo Case

0-10 Scrubber Exa Brain

0-15,000 Salvage

0-16 Smooth Phasmin

0-5 Tepa Nodule

0-12 Thermal Sludge

0-10 Tink Dissipator Coil

0-44 Travocyte Alloy

0-20 Venerdo Alloy

 

SOOOO 

How exactly  was "Cetus and Fortuna grind fine" 
How exactly DE "didn't force us to do conservation or fishing"

Grow up people.

If you had plat, you could relatively easily acquire those resources. Some might scoff at the idea of paying plat to skip that grind, but it was another option for ranking up. Fortuna's rank up system was great imo, much better than Deimos, and it's mainly because of Ticker. Grandmother is a worse version of Ticker. And the Son makes it all worse because it's forced conservation, something which is broken, grindy, and unrewarding right now on Deimos.

 

[American]

4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

My first reaction to the Anthrati Token progression system was confusion and frustration. At a glance, this seems complicated for the sake of being complicated and wasting my time, and no other compelling reason. I realise there are benefits to it, such as being able to hoard tokens. However, the Tokens system as currently designed has the same issue as the initial implementation of Nightwave:

Forcing everyone to participate in all the activities ensures that everyone is miserable because everyone ends up having to do activities they don't like.

Forcing people to fish, mine and do conservation just to progress through the Anthrati Syndicate is a BAD idea. Not everyone likes all of these things. Worse - this goes entirely against the economy changes done to Fortuna and Cetus, where combat alternatives were introduced to the various mining, fishing and conservation activities. There's a reason that the Exploiter Orb and the various Tusk Thumpers drop fish parts, ores and gems - because it's a way for people who don't like "MMO peasant simulator" to still progress without bogging down the experience. I thought you guys had learned this two years ago with Fortuna, yet here we are again.

I'll need to experiment some more with the Anthrati Syndicate - chances are it's not AS bad as it appears at first experience. However, my disagreement with it is ideological. DON'T force players to do all the activities. Let US pick which activities we like and which we'd rather not do.

Dang, everyone is so angry LOL. It almost seems as though people want to /not participate in activities/ and still get rewards! 
 

Here's the thing: no one is *forcing* you to do anything in this game. If you don't like it, then simply don't do it. Warframe is a game full of different content, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to rank up with the new syndicate. 
 

I, for one, enjoy conservation, mining and fishing and I love the token system. Maybe now people won't be rushing through the ranks and will actually have time to really explore Deimos and get the chance to really feel out the environment and vibe. You don't NEED to be the first to reach max rank, you don't NEED your nekramech tomorrow and things don't NEED to change just because a small part of the community is lazy and impatient. Deal with it or just don't play, and for the love of God, let people enjoy this update in peace. Your edgy complaining isn't benefitting anybody right now. 

[Mephane]

I am very early in the progression, just having hit the 5000 for the rank 1, bought a new fishing spear and the first conservation lure. To unlock rank 1, I need to hand in 5 Daugher and 5 Son Tokens. Getting the latter is so much more time intensive than the former. In my time there, not a single offer was had that would accept only the tokens from the animals (I can't remember the name, sorry) that can be caught with that first lure. The token concept is not bad per se, but I think Son Tokens are much too hard to acquire when for example for Daughter Tokens I can just casually fish a bit anywhere, have them cut and voila, have enough resources for at least one Daugher Token.

Son Tokens are such a big hurdle in the progression that they seem to overshadow everything else. Therefore, I suggest:

* Always have, for each animal species, one assignment on offer that requires only that animal type.

* Reduce the number of animal tokens required per Son Token. Right now it is usually like 8 of two different species (16 in total), I'd say make that 5 of a single species for 1 Son Token, 5 of two different species (i.e. 10 in total) for 2 Tokens etc.

[Soleile]

Overall

I really like the idea of the token system, but like others have said, it seems to be a bit much. With Fortuna, Ticker's bonds served as an alternative to spamming bounties over and over. Those that preferred combat could fight as much as they wanted to try and get them while those of us that enjoyed the more leisurely activities could mine or fish and just wait for Ticker to have what we needed. Getting resources from crates around the world was a nice little bonus that allowed everyone to get some resources they could use for whatever they wanted and while I am happy to see that has been carried over to the Cambion Drift, it currently does not help at all for those that dislike doing conservation. Whereas this did not hurt anyone's experience in Fortuna, it has the potential to stall someone's progress here. 

I enjoy mining, fishing, and conservation myself, but I think there still needs to be a way for those that don't to still make steady progress. Ideally I think there should be different tokens for each bounty so people can do a more targeted farm like they could in Fortuna, with the resource trade-ins simply remaining as a more guaranteed way to get them. Or if that would require too much re-balancing, something like adding tags to crate drops as well might help.

Conservation

Conservation seems to have taken quite a hit for how useful it can be to get standing. While I understand it might have been a bit too convenient in Fortuna, the removal of standing rewarded based on performance has made the bad/good/perfect captures pointless. There needs to still be some benefit to trying to get a perfect capture, be it standing, extra tags, or perhaps even a token.

[Mephane]

14 minutes ago, ReadyPlayerSix said:

Dang, everyone is so angry LOL. It almost seems as though people want to /not participate in activities/ and still get rewards! 
 

Here's the thing: no one is *forcing* you to do anything in this game. If you don't like it, then simply don't do it. Warframe is a game full of different content, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to rank up with the new syndicate. 
 

I, for one, enjoy conservation, mining and fishing and I love the token system. Maybe now people won't be rushing through the ranks and will actually have time to really explore Deimos and get the chance to really feel out the environment and vibe. You don't NEED to be the first to reach max rank, you don't NEED your nekramech tomorrow and things don't NEED to change just because a small part of the community is lazy and impatient. Deal with it or just don't play, and for the love of God, let people enjoy this update in peace. Your edgy complaining isn't benefitting anybody right now. 

People naturally feel compelled to rank up fast because the whole Helminth system, arguably the most important and anticipated feature of the whole update, is tied to rank 3. Considering that Helminth itself will constitute another grind, of course people who are in it for that thing alone want to activate it ASAP so they can actually start interacting with the very system that they are interested in from the update.

[Stormhaven13]

Personally love the token system, I'm fairly active right now, but when I'm not I can use the tokens to build up over time so I can still level up the syndicate when I don't have time to really play.

Father Tokens are generally fine, but I don't have a sense of how rare the bounty resource is, but honestly I don't think that matters.

Mother Tokens are great, and despite what everyone seems to think, gives you about the same standing as normal bounties.

Daughter Tokens seem alright, but Daughter herself seems pretty badly bugged right now, and doesn't give consistent amounts of fish supplies. Once that's fixed, those should be more than fine.

Son Tokens. They're better than what most people are saying, most people just don't like having to pay attention for animals during mission, which I suppose is fair. I do think that his tokens are fairly expensive/luck based given that conservation seems to take the longest of any of the activities. I don't really mind, but I know a lot of other people do. 

Grandmother Tokens is a good system, rewards you for patience and doing a variety of things, people just seem confused that you DO NOT NEED THEM. You get plenty of standing from just doing Mother Bounties, and only need as many tokens as the Rank Ups require. 

The Rank Up requirements needing blueprints from the syndicate is. Kind of weird? I don't really care, it's basically just "you need this much extra standing", but thematically I don't really understand it.

This doesn't personally affect me, but thank you for updating the Syndicate Standing system. People complaining about not getting anything while new players get something is just. Drives me crazy. This lets everyone experience the content faster, and there is nothing bad about that. I have always hesitated to get my friends into this game because of how long it would take to do the really cool things, and this helps with that so much.

Overall, the bugs have affected my ability to engage with the system, which is incredibly frustrating, but mostly understandable as long as they get fixed quickly, as some of them (Fish Cutting, and the inability to craft mutagens come to mind first) make Deimos unplayable for me. However, once they get fixed, I think this will easily be my favorite open world. I love both of the other ones, and this one takes the systems and mistakes of the other two, and massively improves on all of them. I'm excited to see what the finished product looks like over the next few weeks.

[Mephane]

Since we have no dedicated megathread for feedback on the bounties:

I did a bit of each yesterday after completing the introduction quest, some fishing, some mining, some conservation, and of course a bounty. I did the tier 4 bounty solo (because I am also collecting codex scans, which generally goes much smoother when you don't have a random Saryn melting everything as it spawns lol).

* One objective was to protect a Corpus scientist and help them gather and then samples. I enjoyed that bit, and was pleasantly surprised that the 2nd phase (uploading the data) was rather quick. Nicely done.

* One objective was to destroy some tumor things (don't remember the actual name) in order to be able to destroy a central one. A bit like a Hive mission, except the location of the tumors was a bit hard to spot at times. I think it would help of the yellow tracers would appear more frequently. Also after destroying the central Hive/tumor, there was a cache underneath, but it was stuck beneath some landscape geometry. Luckily I could open it from just the right angle after trying out a few, if not it would have been a total showstopper for the rest of the bounty.

* Another objective was to charge up some device and then collect samples, which was not at all clearly explained. At first I thought I ought to kill enemies near the device, which didn't work, I tried shooting the yellow glowing tumors, which didn't work, until I found that after putting a power cell into the device, I have a few seconds to manually interact with the yellow tumors in order to collect them.

* Finally, there was an objective where I had to compete for kills against a group of Grineer. I hated that. Yeah, I get that with the right setup even meeting the bonus quota of having 2x as many kills the Grineer should be easy, but it just felt all so... wrong, so pointless. Why should I compete with them? Why don't I just shoot them and be done with it? Why play their stupid little game? It's a fine idea game mechanically and the balance seemed to be right, but I wish we had some better setup as to why we are doing this.

[Borg1611]

I think the Steel Path bounties on Deimos (and the other two planets) need to have different rewards instead of just repeating the highest tier bounty. It would be a great place to give an alternative way to get tokens on Deimos. Make the reward tables rare resources of that planet as well as all the NPC's tokens on Deimos (other than mother since you're already getting hers for the bounty). Currently Steel Path bounty reward tables are just a pointless waste. 

[Sweg178]

3 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

I think the Steel Path bounties on Deimos (and the other two planets) need to have different rewards instead of just repeating the highest tier bounty. It would be a great place to give an alternative way to get tokens on Deimos. Make the reward tables rare resources of that planet as well as all the NPC's tokens on Deimos (other than mother since you're already getting hers for the bounty). Currently Steel Path bounty reward tables are just a pointless waste. 

i have to disagree ..doing that will make steel path bounty a loot cave ..i like the way it is ..you are already getting more endo and more tokens from it 

[Almagnus1]

Fish bait recipe please.

[Densoro]

My first thought when I saw the token system was, 'whoa cool! I have 15,000 standing banked in my inventory after a single endless mission! That's inventive!' I can see why having to turn them into Grandmother is annoying tho: you literally have to bounce between Standing Lady and Redeem Standing Lady, from the side path to the main path, rather than doing all your Standing-related business in one place. This worked for Konzu and Eudico because their bounties give you raw standing, so you don't have to walk away and convert in order to progress with them.

But as for rank-up requirements wasting people's time, like...Yeah, in this case I heavily agree. I just got home from work after looking forward to this update all day. In the time it's taken me to do the intro quest and a single bounty, my night's pretty much over and I'm not even rank 1 because SPINEfish are stingy with their SPINES. Rather than tucking the Helminth system -- the highlight of the update -- away in a loot corner, they could've made it one of the focal points of the intro. 

I don't have the animosity other people do for the fishing and mining, but this is like telling a kid on Christmas morning that they have to eat three tubs of coleslaw before they can open their gifts.

[Fruitdragon]

Scintillant drop rate must be bugged. I've been running bounties where Scintillant is the common drop for over 4 hours and I haven't gotten it once. Not sure if it's bugged and is still supposed to be rare or it's bugged to where it doesn't drop at all.

[zenabiz]

Do like the idea of tokens for rep, fine with that. Do not like the idea that I have to do conservation or fishing to go up in standing.
fishing, mining  and floof hunting were always tied to weapons or accessories, keep it that way. I want to play warframe to do the majority of my warframe things.
If I want the extras I'll engage with the sidequest style gameplay.

Son tuned badly. too many tags for 1 token. please fix.

tldr - don't make it so we have to use dad/sister/brother tokens to go up in standing.

[Berzerkules]

Can I just please buy the helminth? Just take my plat I don't care anymore. 

I never want to step foot into the new open world ever again. Locking standing behind hunting is unbearable. 10 tags for a single son token is insane when you need 10 tokens to for rank 2>3. I've never been so excited for an update and then so quickly disappointed. I've done more hunting today than I have in the 3.3k hours I've played this game. 

 

[maddragonmaster]

4 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

I think the token system is a wonderful idea, but it needs some work on the execution.

See, the good thing about it is that we can now bank standing in the form of tokens. That's great. It's better than great. It's an amazing anti-grind measure.

The problem with this system is that the only way to get some tokens is doing activities we might not like. Son tokens only come from wildlife tagging. Daughter tokens from fishing. Etc. This wouldn't be a problem if the tokens were just ways of banking standing, but they're also used for things like rank ups. Which leads to embarassments like having to patch out the rank up requirement for son tokens because the only way to get them is to capture animals, but you need to be rank 1 to get the echo lures to actually capture animals effectively.

So the solution is to either let players trade for the tokens they want (which would only heighten the fact that the whole family are backbiting weasels, which is great because that's what they are), or to strip out any rank up requirements or crafting requirements that require the tokens and turn the tokens explicitly into a means of banking standing.

 

The other problem is that it's overwhelming and confusing. This is less of a problem though, because over time players will come to understand how the system works.

 

...I quite like the conservation system. A lot of my clanmates do too. It's a fun diversion with fun rewards. Given how much the community loves floofs, I'm pretty sure you're very much in the minority here when you say you don't like the hunting simulator.

i understand most of the things you said and can agree with most of what you said. I will say that having a good introduction to how the token system worked would of helped a lot for me. as for the son tokens i do think should at least be rewarded upon a successful capture. if I need the tags to craft the stuff i am less encouraged to trade for the tokens much less then just doing the capturing. 

[(XBOX)ryuraze]

I have a few concerns, but I want to focus on one especially - scintillant. It's supposedly a common drop, but I haven't even seen 1 in all of my bounties.... and I need at least 4 just for 1 trade. That's horrible. Considering almost all of "Father's" trades require it (and his tokens are used for many rank ups), it's a horrible combination. Horrible. I'm used to absurd drop rates, but come on, this is supposedly a common.