Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[Karasokami 47]

Overall I really like the system, but I have two big critiscisms.

First: Grandmothers prizes are way too high. 6 Son tokens for a single Lamp. When I saw thoose lamps I knew I want them all across my Orbiter. I would need alteast 20 for that. And I really don't think  conservation has that long term motivation. It's fun for 1-3 Runs, after that it's just tedious.

Second: Grandmother again, why are here offerings timed exclusive? That makes no sense, just make it gated by Standing and let it be. I dont want to grind for something just to know I can't buy it because I missed a Timer.

Just give as a tool to trade mothert tokens for other tokens, like 10 Mother tokens for one Son/Daughter Token and vice versa

 

EDIT: The ressources you need to give Mother to level up are also way to high

Edited August 26, 2020 by Karasokami

[JackTheRedCreeper 21]

Also, would be nice to get a bit more talk on the mechs. They just kinda got dropped into the quest then... the goddamn family took over.

I guess we have to rank up high to get the mechs, but atm I have no info. I haven't searched a lot but I don't think I should, for something so big.

[Amazerath 1,245]

- The Deimos syndicate is a mess.

There are many unnecessary steps the players need to go through in order to get the item they want and if you're not very familiar with Warframe you are almost guaranteed to get lost in the process. Also, the tutorial on the bottom right (the little "i" icon) has the generic syndicate tutorial. It tells players to equip syndicate sigils in order to gain standing, which is completely wrong in this case.

 

- Daily caps are as bad as ever.

I know the time gates exist to stop players from doing everything too fast. But these daily limits go much beyond that and and strongly discourage players from spending time playing the game. I immediately stop playing Warframe as soon as I reach my daily cap because I know I'm just wasting time and potentially getting burned out. The same thing happened with Cetus and Fortuna.

 

- Too many things are locked behind syndicate ranks.

The daily caps on standing and the fact that so many of the interesting new content is locked behind ranks harms the experience of engaging with a new area and new content. There are lots of things to do, but there is also a point when everything becomes a waste of your time because all these things have limits or locks associated with them. So again, instead of spending additional time playing Warframe (which I would very much like to do), I simply exit the game and play something else.

[EinheriarJudith 2,849]

currency needs currency...... way to take the piss.

[JackTheRedCreeper 21]

hace 1 minuto, Amazerath dijo:

- Daily caps are as bad as ever.

I know the time gates exist to stop players from doing everything too fast. But these daily limits go much beyond that and and strongly discourage players from spending time playing the game. I immediately stop playing Warframe as soon as I reach my daily cap because I know I'm just wasting time and potentially getting burned out. The same thing happened with Cetus and Fortuna.

Daily caps aren't so messy this time at least since you can just get a S#&$ton of Mother tokens for the standing. Just think of it as crafting time.

 

hace 2 minutos, Amazerath dijo:

 

- Too many things are locked behind syndicate ranks.

The daily caps on standing and the fact that so many of the interesting new content is locked behind ranks harms the experience of engaging with a new area and new content. There are lots of things to do, but there is also a point when everything becomes a waste of your time because all these things have limits or locks associated with them. So again, instead of spending additional time playing Warframe (which I would very much like to do), I simply exit the game and play something else.

This is fair criticism, specially since we're all facing some pretty bad problems (Son being an expensive ass**le, Daughter scamming you with cutting fish, and some other day 1 bugs). All we can do is stare at the problems we have in our faces. I can't even oogle at the Necramechs because I don't even know when I can start getting one.

[Tenma_FN 22]

Scintillant is NOT common as a reward for Bounty #2... to be honest I am not even sure its on the reward table.. I have ground out around 25 bounties of this already and gotten not a single one. Yet I have collected about 4 Maiming Strike Mods which is suppose to be Rare. The table needs to be looked at.

I want my time to be well spent, not a gamble, hope, or pray I get the things I need to move forward.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Tenma_FN

[Silvertap 95]

10 necrothings for the first level is too much... this expansion looks very cool, but the grind is insanely bad...

 

And conservation, forget it... really... man, it is no longer a rep farm, pure slave labor for that brother duche...

Edited August 26, 2020 by Silvertap

[(XBOX)Cryoguard 31]

Right now, the value/exchange rate of tokens aside from Mother's feels bad. It makes Cambion drift feel like bounties are the only way to realistically progress. Some ways to fix this are as follows:

1. Make other token recipes (aside from Grandmother's) cheaper to obtain (ie lower resource costs)
2. Make other token recipes (aside from Grandmother's) reward more tokens per purchase (ie more than just 1, 2, or 3 for most of them)
3. Increase the redemption value of other tokens (this would result in a rebalancing of Grandmother's token costs, of course)

Any combination of the above would allow mining, fishing, and conservation to feel like viable options to farming standing when compared to bounties, which currently feels the overwhelmingly best time investment for standing.

[icBee 4]

REALLY? Making animal captures mandatory? NOONE can make me bother with tracking and capturing in the Plains or Orb Valis. Now thinking about it, fishing and mining are mandatory too. Only difference is they are tradable. Can't you make the required resources for  faction progression mutually exclusive? For example, you will either need animal tags OR minerals, or other resources, so we can choose which to give away. 

Practically, capturing purple velocipods was easy. I'll give the new captures a chance if they're as fast.

[Amazerath 1,245]

1 minute ago, JackTheRedCreeper said:

Daily caps aren't so messy this time at least since you can just get a S#&$ton of Mother tokens for the standing. Just think of it as crafting time.

The thing is, even if I have 1 million tokens they all become irrelevant as soon as I reach the daily cap. Because it's the cap that stops me from progressing in ranks, and ranks are necessary to unlock interesting things like Xaku or the Helminth system itself. In regards to that, this system and the old system are exactly the same. The new system only really benefits players who can't play Warframe regularly. Because now those players are allowed to stock tokens and don't need to farm more standing every single day.

Also, if we are talking about Xaku or weapons there is already a crafting time. Imagining that I'm crafting gear twice doesn't really alleviate the problem. Yes, the problem is a temporary one that will disappear once I've crafted everything I want. But I also think the caps and the syndicate ranks don't need to be as restrictive as they are.

[Mr.Holyroller 414]

Someone really needs to tell Son to get off his high horse and randomly asking for 4-6 of two different tags for just one token

[(XBOX)Church367A 63]

Just my initial impressions thus far, but its more disappointment and irritating than fun.  I feel like any intrinsic fun to be had has been removed and replaced with checklist gaming which we already have in the Nightwave.  Want to gain a coin from "son" it is not enough to simply just hunt and grind out hunting a single creature, no, now I have to hunt every single thing just to acquire some of the coin packs.  And it is required progression, not just something I would choose to do when I get tired of bounties, but it is now part of the checklist procedure for progress.  The use interfaces are also a nuisance to navigate, does "Capture Deimos Wildlife" in any way infer or elude to this being what someone would select to start acquiring coins? No.  The exact same can be said for "Daughter" and her fishing as well as her menu interaction for gaining coins.

Currently Deimos feels like something I will enjoy after maxing out the standing for this game so that I can then enjoy doing what I want when I want, but as it stands it is just checklist gaming that I'm having to go too far out of my way in order to make progress and it is not an enjoyable experience.  Assuming the grind does not kill this off entirely for me.  As others have mentioned in this thread, Fortuna did this better where you had multiple paths for progression.  

[DragonsRain 3]

Not sure if I am just doing it wrong, or if Scintillant is basicly unobtainable. but damn. I have spend about 6 hours running bounties today, 0 Scintillant.
how are we supposed to give 7 of the stuff to Father?

I want xaku

[HelixRook 50]

Just now, DragonsRain said:

Not sure if I am just doing it wrong, or if Scintillant is basicly unobtainable. but damn. I have spend about 6 hours running bounties today, 0 Scintillant.
how are we supposed to give 7 of the stuff to Father?

I want xaku

The drop rate is incredibly low. RNG isn’t in my favor either. 

[Cpl_Facehugger 7,850]

2 hours ago, IamLoco said:

Her stupid glasses look completely ridiculous and misplaced, they just don´t fit into the lore and environment.

We've had glasses for operators for literal years. Seriously, glasses were among the very first operator cosmetics. I don't see how another character having glasses is somehow this strange thing.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Also, different tiers with different difficulties and rewards, I'd love a good expansion on this whole section.

One of my clanmates was telling me that there are different tiers with different rewards and difficulties, it's just convoluted how to access them.

See, apparently you need to do the first vault bounty from Mother. Then, instead of going back to the necralisk when you're done, you need to find one of the mother instances out in the drift - but one of them in particular, you can't just randomly pick one and have the bounty upgrade. So you've gotta get out your archwing and zoom around looking for the *right* instance. Then you'll get a second bounty with another necramech (making for 2) and more rewards. Do that one, then go back to yet another mother instance in the drift and you'll get a third level of vault bounty with 3 necramechs and even more delicious rewards.

 

[ixidron92 1,779]

hace 47 minutos, Tenma_FN dijo:

Scintillant is NOT common as a reward for Bounty #2... to be honest I am not even sure its on the reward table.. I have ground out around 25 bounties of this already and gotten not a single one. Yet I have collected about 4 Maiming Strike Mods which is suppose to be Rare. The table needs to be looked at.

I want my time to be well spent, not a gamble, hope, or pray I get the things I need to move forward.

 

This wtf. Is it bugged or what? How can it be a common reward and not drop ever? I've got the other rewards tons of times and I've gotten rare rewards more times. 

[mikakor 4,073]

Why do you have to always try to reinvent the wheel? the syndicates from the two other open world were correct. you could level up the faction without being FORCED ( yes, forced. you got no choice to do a painfully slow conservation grind if you wanna rank up ) to do stuff you didn't liked. i level up the two factions in Fortuna and PoE with fishing, because i really love it. now i'm forced to do everything. this wasn't a thing, and even if there's a neat " it's because it's family, bonds and all" it doesn't matter. it is badly implemented system. from top to bottom.

 

the ONLY good thing that is new about this system is "stored rep" . you can farm infinite amount of token from mother, and like this you can decide when or when not farm your standing, rather than always be forced to do the daily standing one day and being capped out

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by mikakor

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra 1,893]

• Son tokens are way overpriced. No way I'm hunting ten beasts for 1 token. Also sucks that it requires a specific rarity of beast and not any beast of said family... I mean, c'mon, even with pheromones it's a gamble which beast you'll be getting, making the grind even longer.
• Really hard to figure out fishing. All fishes look the same, you can't see their names when you point your spear at them, not clear where each of them spawn, every time I find a lake or river in a a cave there's zero fishes there, bait descriptions are also not helping... Only found three types of fishes so far.. Really confused on how to get the rest. Tbh gets really confusing when you have fishes, animals, enemies, terrain that all look like gooey infested stuff... Maybe highlight stuff better so you can quickly tell at a glance it's a fish and not a flying enemy.
• While I appreciate the fact you can accrue a stockpile of each tokens so you can spend them gradually to reach the cap, it's still somewhat confusing and counter-intuitive.... Plus having to constantly warp back and forth between vendor to check refreshing token lists is annoying... Plus there's no way to "hide uncraftable tokens", meaning I have to check them one by one to see the amount of each things and if I have them. Also, why not put token exchange on Mother instead of grandma, annoying to have to go see grandma every time you need to spend a couple tokens even though she's an endgame cosmetic vendor / kdrive chick...
• Speaking of it, why is it always so hard to display the cost of stuff like tokens... Why not just write something like (Requires 4 Clem Butts (65 Owned)... instead of that weird 65/12 stuff.
• Exchange rates for everyone else than mother are too low to make it a viable thing imho...I'm not gutting fishes , mining and hunting for hours then sacrificing all that I've looted for very little standing. If anything these tokens should be worth more than mother tokens, since you're actually sacrificing stuff you farmed to get them...
• Many of the ressources needed to craft aren't dropping from bounties even though they are supposed to be common... Why not remove all these filler 500 endo and 10000 credits stuff and actually give us the crafting mats we need to craft the new stuff and rank up ?
• Requiring mandatory tokens for each family member to rank up is kinda annoying. Not a huge fan of hunting and fishing yet I've been constantly forced to hunt due to how the progression system is made. Lemme play what I want and get standing and rank up that way.

Edited August 26, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)wart_13 54]

The token system is... Not good. Ticker was the worst system in fortuna, but worked because you weren't forced to take advantage of her offerings. She was there if convenient. 

Here we have an entire system based on forcing you to do activities, even specific hunts, you don't like. It has taken the entire philosophy advanced by thumpers and the exploiter orb of letting you play your way, and gone so far in the opposite direction!

It's still early days, so maybe there are efficient ways I haven't learned to get tokens. As of now, I ranked up twice, and went back to hunting my final lich. I absolutely abhor kuva liches, so that should tell you how unlikeable the token system is.

[BrazilianJoe 4,780]

Son tokens take too long to grind. 

If they were tied to the species, rather than subspecies, and required less captures to purchase, it would be better. 

Compounding to the problem: tracks do not always spawn, hunting mission hangs on the tracking stage and requires going back to necralisk to restart. 

I don't think the token system is bad in itself. BUT...

it is not well explained, and that's what makes it confusing. And confusion leads to frustration. 

[BrazilianJoe 4,780]

Tokens: UI should show a little badge on them, or make them glow or something, to make it obvious which ones the player can buy right away, and which ones he cannot. 

 

[Nasair 238]

The forced requirement to do conservation, fishing, and mining is horrid. I don't like this part of the game and I like that for the other open worlds I have other methods of getting these resources. I like doing bounties. I like playing Warframe (aka action)

Make the token system like Fortuna with multiple avenues for progression and just use standing.
Especially would like someone like Ticker so I can use other parts of the game to rank up.

Non-combat activities are not the reason I've been playing for years.

 

[Bakaguya-sama 303]

Feel like DE vastly overestimated how much people care about "floofs".  

[Shifted 7,372]

Normalize the cost of tokens.

Spoiler

Father

is offering one token for either 13 or 15 Pustulite.

I don't want to have to pull out a spreadsheet to figure out which is the best deal for me.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93 5,275]

50 minutes ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

We've had glasses for operators for literal years. Seriously, glasses were among the very first operator cosmetics. I don't see how another character having glasses is somehow this strange thing.

 

One of my clanmates was telling me that there are different tiers with different rewards and difficulties, it's just convoluted how to access them.

See, apparently you need to do the first vault bounty from Mother. Then, instead of going back to the necralisk when you're done, you need to find one of the mother instances out in the drift - but one of them in particular, you can't just randomly pick one and have the bounty upgrade. So you've gotta get out your archwing and zoom around looking for the *right* instance. Then you'll get a second bounty with another necramech (making for 2) and more rewards. Do that one, then go back to yet another mother instance in the drift and you'll get a third level of vault bounty with 3 necramechs and even more delicious rewards.

 

Lovely to know!

I still need to place my Loc-Pins as I usually do in Open Worlds - best mining/fishing spots, social hub entrance and bounty interfaces, both for same tier and to change to a different one. This is very useful since Mother's interface just outside of the loot cave offers alternative, same-stage, bounties but it doesn't apply to Isolation Chamber.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93