Heart of Deimos: New Tenno Reinforcements Feedback Megathread

[Riccoshot]

Zymos:
Atrocious projectile speed, non-existent default fire rate & questionable default accuracy (9.8) with a gimmick that supposed to be working off of headshots.
With multishot (i.e. your default modding option) installed, given accuracy stat result in pretty much random flight patters to any enemies at 20m and beyond range (which is barely a medium range).
I get that it might be designed around occasional big damage splash only every now and then, when something actually registers as headshot, but every of its secondary/QoL stats are so mediocre it's painful to play around it.
Reload speed can be tweaked a bit (2.6 would be okay'ish imo), wouldn't be even asking for heavy cuts.
Clips size/ammo max got buffed so i won't be going over those.

Keratinos:
Susprisingly good working hybrid melee. Crits stats didn't get butchered with how every now and then a weapon is released with either CC or CD being neutered to hell, even though CC is on a low-end for sure, you still can work with that. Status is obviously a high point and Weeping Wound work beautiful with it.
Gimmick trigger is only visual (aka extended nails), would like to see a small timer or decay meter on a weapon portion of UI, just to double down on the awareness of buff, quick /easiest idea attached below:

I do realize the buff goes on for 3 minutes, but you can forget it so simply in a heat of a battle with no other visuals than the nails.

Added range is welcome, though it's nothing special (like +1m, maybe 1.5m from quick testing), slam attack radius bonus is just there i guess, thing is, yes we have slam attacks on 1 out for 4 combos for all 3 claw stances, but the particular slam combo might be sluggish or the rest of the combos on a stance may be mediocre, so in reality it's situational at best.

Trumna:
Nothing much to say honestly, it's just decent.
Although it has quite an abhorrent recoil on primary mode, even before any fire rate mods, though primary fire itself is hitscan which is always welcome.
I'd like to see slightly higher default fire rate with a definitely toned down recoil at the same time, to make back and forth killing for alt-fire charge more tolerable.

Sepulcrum:
This is what projectile weapon should feel like and boy do i mean it, you can shoot something like Dargyns so easily due to extremely consistent feeling (and outcome) when you making that "ahead adjustment" for most projectile weapons.

Alt-fire is does its job damage and gimmick-wise (homing properties are really solid per say) and that's about it. 

The technical aspect of utilizing it is execrable - marking is noticeably inconsistent, as if you need to pixel hunt enemy's silhouette. I expected it to behave similar to Ash's Bladestorm, which it does, but marking itself fails with such severe plainness you can't not notice that. It's like something is obstructing proper marking or it has some weird line-of-sight restrictions. You'd expect to move your mouse from side to side in a wide angle in front of you, just like you do with aforementioned Bladestorm, or maybe Grendel's 1, or even Mesa's 4 for what it's worth... and then out of 5-7 enemies clearly within your LoS it marks like 2 of them..     what?

Secondly, for some weird reason markers are being succumb to waypoint system, like what/why? How is this a normality even? Video attached, note that this can get much worse with height difference (that's how i noticed it's even a thing originally) and marker going on and off right in front of you with marked enemies clearly within LoS:

I mean i'd still be able to hit the enemies shown in the video due to aggressive homing, yet i'd still like to also know where exactly they're.
Leave the marker's icon, just give it Zenith properties, it's not like Sepulcrum has built-in wallhacks or anything anyway.
Sidenotes for both Trumna/Sepulcrum (bit of a personal issues) :

Spoiler

Charge state reticle is marginally small and uses energy color. So with these new weapons reached the state where's now we have 3 potentially conflicting things:
- status effects uses energy color
- projectile effects uses energy color
- now this small UI piece uses energy color
Let me give you my perspective - i don't particularly enjoy "effects/particle-mess stuff". I want my projectile to have the brightness and saturation where i can clearly distinguish it, so these would be some slighty "brighter then medium" tones; i want status effects visuals to be as toned down as possible, because i don't enjoy seeing a group of "walking glowing christmas trees with the most eyesore ephemeras on top of them", instead of actual awareness of the enemy state and position.
And now there's reticle which needs to be set at the most bright and flashy tone, so you can see those 20x10 piece of UI.
So now my projectile color is where it should because i prioritized it the most, yet it's still not toned down enough for status effects visuals, while the reticle color is too toned down to distinguish on UI on most tilesets.
Granted there's THE CLICK which you can hear fairly enough, unless you're like in a middle of a warzone and this is where's THE CLICK does not suffice.
I would really, really like extra coloring options cause it would make certain weapon usage experience much more enjoyable.

Sidenote for reload speed:
Personally i don't have an issue with them because i'm (again, personally) not a "compulsive reloader" (insert ammo 199/200   *screams: i need to reload*-meme here).
The reality is that Trumna has 200 mag with 4.67 base fire rate and 5s. reload. Sepulcrum is 90 (45 actual shots because 2-burst) with 1.0 base fire rate (UI is misleading because DE still didn't find a way around to display value correctly for burst fire modes) and 4s reload.
Realistically, even with fire rate mods you still have quite a prolonged uptime of a single mag/clip and secondary mode straight up doesn't consume ammo at all, which might've been a valid added critique if it did, but it's not right?
I'd still would cut both guns reload speed by a second or so - to 4.0s and 3.0s respectively just make it more user friendly for an average folk.

Cortege:

Nothing much to say again. Doesn't really feel like flamethrower visually, mainly reminiscent of Phantasma, but that's a minor nitpick.
The thing that bothers me is alt-fire having abysmal 0.250 fire rate, which results in a 3+ second hitch after an alt-fire shot, before it can normally go back to primary mode, which is clearly cause by indicated fire rate.
I don't feel like it's normal, because the intended usage is just so frustrating it instantly catches your eye the very first time it happens.
I mean what's the point of 0.250 fire rate anyway? It's not an alt-fire mode that you can swap to and only shoot bombs continuously, which normally would justify such a low number. It shoot all 3 bombs simultaneously and that's it - your alt-fire is over, next thing you'd be doing back to primary fire anyway to charge it again.
I'd like to think is an oversight really, but you never can be certain.

Quassus: 
Only the second Warfans overall, with the generic stat shift being there just to differentiate it from Gunsen.
Nothing special, pretty forgettable.
Warfans only stance is half clunky with a lot of animation that've been screaming for trimming/fluidity improvement for years, you know the Wise Razor's case basically.

Late edit Sept. 11th
Mausolon:
Beautifully solid overall. Up to the point it instantly powercreeped vanilla arch-guns, with this debate being more around how game progressed/regressed (pick your poison) with it's "shooter" aspect (honestly it's more of a horde-slasher now or something), thus AoE stuff is welcomed within the current ecosystem i guess.
One downside of the same nature as for Cortege. You can't immediately fire after alt-fire shot, granted it's not as severe as Cortege due to double the default firerate (0.500 vs 0.250), but is still present.

[Somnia]

Trumna feels amazing to use and is incredibly fun. If you see this beaut climb in usage stats, know that it's actually because you made a fun and satisfying to use gun that feels potent, not just the most efficient thing in a straight line.

Please don't take this from us.

[FaridRLz]

Somewhat or somehow the Keratinos feel kind of low damage compared to things like [Caustacyst], which are in the same category of "infested, heavy on status but with cool heavy attack gimmick" Im not sure if it's due to its status chance being below 30%, or it crit chance not reaching 15%, the whole mechanic of giving it a heavy attack range mechanic should not be compensated with this low base stats, if you are going to focus the weapon on heavy attack, at least give it slightly more base attack speed or even bump up a bit its heavy attack damage by 20%.

Compared to other status monsters, or heavy attack slashers now a day, this weapon hits right in the middle, but in the wrong spot. 

Please this is a quite good weapon with potential to be good, give it some love

 

Edit1:

Now I've been using the [Quassus] and seems that the slashing feathers of its heavy attack DO NOT scale in damage with mods although the main damage of the actual heavy attack seems fine, is this intended or it's like the stropha bug that happened when it came into the game? Still its feather damage scales properly with combo multiplier

[(XBOX)LordKnightly505]

Trumna Feedback on XBOX:

 

Decent weapon, the alt fire is devastating,  but the primary fire is a bit weak considering the amount of work it took to get it, combined with the low fire rate and high recoil it could use a few tweaks.

 

Also, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but the trumna when leveling on hydron will devastate level 35-45 grineer, but the moment I take it to Diemos the primary fire struggles to kill even basic low tier infested at even lvl 30.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Could you shorten the distance the projectiles of Sepulcrums Alt Fire travel before homing in on enemies.

In smaller spaces they end up hitting a wall before ever getting the chance to turn.

[frogov99]

Trumna opinions: giving this weapon a 5 second reload to counterbalance the firepower and magazine size it's not a good decision. I would absolutely trade half of the magazine size (and even a small percentage of damage) to get at the reload speed reduced to 3 or 2.5 seconds. We have weapons that can empty they magazine and reload in 5 seconds or less. We are basically left with no choice: the longest reload speed ever or use fast hands or warframes that increase reload speed. It's just a matter of better balancing for this awesome weapon

sepulcrum opinions: it'd be better if it had an automatic trigger or a faster fire rate. Because without fire rate mods I feel like I'm clicking faster than this weapons fires. I also have the same Trumna issue here. Reload against magazine size and firepower are out of balance. 

[Robolaser]

  SEPULCRUM:

 

Le 30/08/2020 à 21:22, Colyeses a dit :

Three: The missiles take a -very- long time to respond to their lock-on [...]

Four: The missiles have trouble tracking some targets.

Le 31/08/2020 à 09:49, MasterBurik a dit :

• It appears there is a "lag time" before the seeker rounds actually start to "curve" towards their target. While this isn't much of an issue in areas with clear sight lines, it immediately causes issues when it comes to "curving" the rounds to try and bypass obstacles (especially when it comes to spaces with low overhead clearance). Compensating for that additional time requires additional distance from your target and/or any obstacles that may be in the way, which can often be a non-starter. And if you are "off" with your aim on a target in close proximity, they often bypass the target before re-orienting.

Il y a 7 heures, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Could you shorten the distance the projectiles of Sepulcrums Alt Fire travel before homing in on enemies.

In smallest spaces they end up hitting a wall before ever getting the chance to turn.

 

 

Unfortunately the homing capability has been bugged for clients since release, and still isn't fixed despite reports.

Here's how it is supposed to perform (playing as host) :

https://streamable.com/jixk50

Takes very sharp turns almost immediately after shooting, and homes in even if the targets are out of sight or behind you.

 

Now here's how it performs when playing as as client :

https://streamable.com/qll2px

Maybe that's what you're experiencing? Most often it doesn't work at all. Sometimes it slightly deviates towards targets. And rarely, it manages to home in with expected sharp turns but only after having traveled an abnormally long distance. Also, not 100% sure, but it feels like playing as client negatively affects the locking reticle's responsiveness. Lastly, as client it always keeps the default yellow trails color instead of custom one.

[MasterBurik]

20 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

 

Unfortunately it has been bugged since release, and still isn't fixed despite reports. Here's how it is supposed to perform (playing as host) :

https://streamable.com/jixk50

Takes very sharp turns almost immediately after shooting, and homes in even if the targets are out of sight or behind you.

 

Now here's how it performs when playing as as client :

https://streamable.com/qll2px

Maybe that's what you're experiencing? Most often it doesn't work at all. Sometimes it slightly deviates towards targets. And rarely, it manages to home in with expected sharp turns but only after having traveled an abnormally long distance (about the max lock on range, maybe even more, i didn't have the patience to record that sorry). Also keeps the default yellow trails color instead of custom one.

In your first vid, they traveled about 10-12m before curving. Even though my own testing had confirmed this, I checked again by performing the "test" you did in that video.

While they may have taken "very sharp turns almost immediately after shooting," that is still quite a distance to travel.

[Colyeses]

23 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Unfortunately the homing capability has been bugged since release, and still isn't fixed despite reports.

Here's how it is supposed to perform (playing as host) :

https://streamable.com/jixk50

Takes very sharp turns almost immediately after shooting, and homes in even if the targets are out of sight or behind you.

This is actually what I am complaining about. The distance they travel in a straight line before they start to curve to their target is a massive problem in more enclosed spaces.

 

24 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Now here's how it performs when playing as as client :

https://streamable.com/qll2px

That is a different problem where the Sepulchrum (And the Zymos, too) doesn't work when playing as client. It doesn't home in -at all- when client.

[Robolaser]

@MasterBurik @Colyeses

About 10m indeed. In the first part of the first video, it seems to be a bit more,  because they have to make a 180° turn.

I think that's acceptable. If the homing started much earlier, or immediately, one couldn't shoot above or around most obstacles. That said maybe it could start slightly earlier though, admitedly. And/or maybe the initial spread could be tighter to make it more useable in corridors, where it currently tends to hit walls at longer ranges? (i don't know if/how +-flight speed, spread or accuracy mods affects these issues, might be something to check too).

[Colyeses]

1 minute ago, Robolaser said:

@MasterBurik @Colyeses

About 10m indeed. In the first part of the first video, it seems to be a bit more,  because they have to make a 180° turn.

I think that's acceptable. If the homing started much earlier, or immediately, one couldn't shoot above or around most obstacles. That said maybe it could start slightly earlier though, admitedly. Or maybe the initial spread could be tighter to make it more useable in corridors, where it currently tends to hit walls at longer ranges? (i don't know if/how +-flight speed or +-spread mods affects these issues, might be something to check too).

Well, that, or the projectiles should simply be terrain agnostic. IIRC, the motes from Breach Surge and that Zaw arcane are. 

[Robolaser]

That would be the most simple solution, but wouldn't it also allow us to shoot through all kinds of cover and even walls, for example? Might be a bit op. Also DE would have to do this for Cyanex, Akarius, Helstrum, Buzlok, Phantasma's alt fire etc, too.

I was about to say "costs nothing to ask", but then remembered what they did with self-damage, adding harsh explosion damage falloff penalties and knockback (even to weapons that didn't have self damage). I doubt DE would allow these weapons' homing projectiles to ignore terrain without strongly nerfing something else.

[MasterBurik]

1 hour ago, Robolaser said:

@MasterBurik @Colyeses

About 10m indeed. In the first part of the first video, it seems to be a bit more,  because they have to make a 180° turn.

I think that's acceptable. If the homing started much earlier, or immediately, one couldn't shoot above or around most obstacles. That said maybe it could start slightly earlier though, admitedly. And/or maybe the initial spread could be tighter to make it more useable in corridors, where it currently tends to hit walls at longer ranges? (i don't know if/how +-flight speed, spread or accuracy mods affects these issues, might be something to check too).

I suppose it depends on how you are utilizing the alt fire: Shooting around your own cover, or shooting around theirs. I would prefer to utilize it to shoot around my cover, as it gives the alt-fire an additional defensive advantage. As such, reducing the initial range before homing would be beneficial. I would no longer need to back as far away from the cover, just so that I can reach an angle that would allow me to shoot around it.

 

Having swapped Magnum Force and Lethal Momentum in and out of it during multiple tests, I haven't seen them make much of a difference (if any at all) on the spread, accuracy, or speed of the alt fire projectiles.

 

[Robolaser]

il y a 52 minutes, MasterBurik a dit :

I suppose it depends on how you are utilizing the alt fire: Shooting around your own cover, or shooting around theirs. I would prefer to utilize it to shoot around my cover, as it gives the alt-fire an additional defensive advantage. As such, reducing the initial range before homing would be beneficial. I would no longer need to back as far away from the cover, just so that I can reach an angle that would allow me to shoot around it.

Having swapped Magnum Force and Lethal Momentum in and out of it during multiple tests, I haven't seen them make much of a difference (if any at all) on the spread, accuracy, or speed of the alt fire projectiles.

 

Fair point, i didn't consider this. Also thanks for testing the mods!

What DE could do then:

- shorten the homing "delay" and let Lethal Momentum affect the missile's speed, thus allowing us to mod the delay according to our preferences. This would require homing to start after set travel time instead of distance, if that's how it currently works (let's hope it wouldn't make the client bug harder to fix).

- make the initial spread tighter, and let Magnum Force affect it for those who like how the wide spread currently looks.

[Monolake]

Why is Zymos so gimped? Even if its gimmick was consistent it would still be not as good as Atomos or even good single-target weapons (not to mention the OP KNukor) . But it has absolutely terrible accuracy and projectiles forcing you to only use it upclose but IT HAS SELF- KNOCKDOWN - it kills the weapon usability. And the enemies get staggered so if they dont die right away then landing consecutive headshots is impossible. Might as well use melee. And it has fairly small mag and slow reload on top.

There is one accuracy pistol mod - its only 30% and barely make a difference for how bad the base accuracy is.

The weapon needs self-knockdown removed and accuracy improved if you want it to be usable - then it would become a fun gun rewarding you for headshots. Either reload speed or mag could be improved too. As of it is now, its frustrating to use even in perfect conditions in sim with clustered/paused enemies.

 

[MacIntoc]

Trumna - Better than I expected.

Primary fire - The fire rate is well balanced and allows to use it as a semi while remaining descent in auto. It does acceptable damage (start to fall after grineer level 120+). And feel  precise despite recoil.

Secondary fire - The fun part. I would suggest some tweaks to make it deadly fun :

• stack 2-3 munitions for alternate fire instead of only one
• increase main damage explosion from 6m to 10m
• homing bomblet
• add a damage multiplier based on the number of headshots and the most consecutive hits when building the munition (this would help against higher level mobs)

[EDIT]I tried it on Deimos and understand why some says that primary fire don't make enought damage : viral proc is a must have on it to be reliable.[/EDIT]

[TrustyTrashBat]

Hello! Massive fan of the Sepulcrum here. Fell in love with the weapon as soon as I saw its design, and its description! Upon sinking 5 forma into it, and playing with it a lot, I’d like to propose a couple changes, primarily to its alt fire mechanic!

Alt Fire Lock-On

With the alt fire, I’m perfectly okay with the damage, and charge time, but I feel the lock-on time is too long, and the range a tad short. It feels..sluggish to use, as a simple sweep across enemies doesn’t work. This goes hand-in-hand with my next complaint.

Alt Fire Charge Usage

As stated, I find the lock-on time for the alt fire’s missiles to be too long. That, combined with the fact that all charges are drained, regardless of missiles used, can be rather annoying. It incentivises you to shoot all 5, for maximum efficiency, but, due to the sluggish lock-on time, it’s hard to find 5 enemies to target, before your teammates will inevitably kill them. 

How would I change these issues?

Well, I don’t believe I’m alone in stating that the lock-on time could be faster, longer ranged, and more forgiving, much like Ash’s ‘bladestorm’ ability. And I believe the number of missiles fired should correspond with the number of available charges. This allows more flexibility with the weapon. For example, firing a single rocket will retain 4 charges, allowing for quick, single target damage, should the wielder wish to.

 

Before ending this off, I would like to say: I adore this weapon, but out of my adoration, I would like for the unique functionality of it to have more use, and generally feel more fluid to use. Whoever did the sound design for the primary fire, and the animation deserves a reward! I love this weapon <3

 

 

 

 

[Lakyus]

The weapons are pretty fun in concept, but a bit annoying to use:

• All of them need better reload times. Like, all of them, and by a big chunk. I'm speaking of 1 second or more.
• Zymos is one of the less consistent weapons of all time. It does 0 damage with body shots, and 1000 damage with headshots, that already apply multipliers. No to mention the no AoE/full AoE. My suggestion is increasing the base damage substantially and make it do area attacks on headshots, so it feels more rewarding for doing it right and less punishing when doing it wrong. Look at Kuva Seer. It has a similar mechanic, but it's actually top tier.

[GPrime96]

So far, enjoying Sepulcrum. Used 1 Forma into it and enjoying how it performs at high levels in Steel Path with the Primary Fire when used with Breach Surge Garuda Solo. It’s Alt Fire though, not so much. I see it’s Alt Fire being a low level Sweeper just like if it’s a Corinth Mini but my biggest issue with it’s Alt Fire is how i highlight enough enemies, and then miss all of them after releasing it while using Parkour since the Missiles goes straight ahead instead of home at the enemies in time like it normally do. Other stuff about the gun like low Fire Rate and long Reload don’t bother me as much and could mod around that (Build not finished yet) but yeah it would be nice to see a slight fix to it’s Homing Missiles during Mobile Playstyles since the only way to counter that is being more static on the ground.

 Besides that, it’s my new favorite Secondary. 

[Zahnny]

Quiet Shy recently made a video about the weapon in that, for the weapon to be on par for other weapons in regards to its melee range, it requires you to fully build up the combo count to max, then heavy attack to recieve it's 3 minute long buff. While the buff duration is incredibly generous given previous weapons buffs normally last mere seconds, the method to obtaining it requires building the weapon specifically to utilize that, rather than being able to passively use the weapons gimmick. This feels rather silly to have a weapons gimmick require a specific set up, and while you can argue that Status and Crit also require you to build for them, the majority of the time you can still benefit from these, modding just making them more effective. Where as the Keratinos, if you haven't built for it, you essentially lose access to that ability.

The Xoris's gimmick of not having any combo duration at all without it decaying would work well if applied to the Keratinos, giving players a way of still requiring to build up the combo meter while making it something you can passively do, rather than require players to whack enemies actively until they reach 220 hits.

[ChaoticEdge]

Wished for there be more Zaw weapon parts...for I am

At the time being I did get chance use the infested weapons they are pretty good so far but question about the hitbox in some point

 

[Vthor]

Didnt realize this megathread was up so I'm just copy-pasting from my original post. 

Sepulcrum's Homing missile economy needs improvement

 

The alt fire, to my experience, feels that it needs reworking/improvement for "lock-on missile barrage economy". Currently if you only lock onto 4 or less targets and launch it up. Sepulcrum will only launch 4 missiles even if the weapon requires 5 kills to charge it up  and then charge will reset back to 0 . This makes the experience unrewarding (in my opinion that is) because of missiles wasted. 

These are 2 possible suggestions DE can improve this weapon a little bit.

 

Option 1: 

If lock-on targets are less than 5. Have the next charges required to alt fire cheaper; by subtracting the number of previously locked-in targets.

Example: 

1. Sepulcrum locks-on to 3 targets.

2. Player launches 3 missiles  to those 3 targets.

3. Alt-fire charge will reset and begin with 2 charges

Option 2:

If lock-on targets are less than 5.  Have the missiles cycle back to the targets. It depends on how DE would want to cycle/sort it. 

Example: 

1. Sepulcrum locks-on to 3 targets.

2. Player launches 5 missiles  to those 3 targets(Target A, Target B, Target C).

3. Target A gets hit with 1st missile

4. Target B gets hit with 2nd missile.

5. Target C gets hit with 3rd missile.

6. Target A gets hit with 4th missile.

7. Target B gets hit with 5th missile.

 

tldr; Suggested to have Sepulcrum's homing missile be more efficient when there are less target locked-in.

[snoozecruise]

Sepulcrum: I'm having issues with the alt fire as well. I'd actually be okay with everything else, if only the reaction time could be improved. The Trumna wins in alt fire usability because it's point, click, explode. This game's action speed is too fast, and in the time I switch to Sepulcrum's alt fire, manually lock on, and wait for the missiles to home in, three other party members have usually nuked the area.

Suggestion: remove the manual lock-on and make it an instant action that automatically locks onto five targets in the field of view.

I think the ammo economy idea is nice, but idealistic. Leaving it as is adds an element of tactical usage; if there are less than five targets, well, that's what the single fire explosive rounds are for, or any of your other weapons or frame abilities.

It'd also be nice if it were an auto-burst trigger instead, just for the sake of my wrist tendon health. Given how slow the weapon is, it'd hardly be game-breaking.

 

Zymos: surprisingly fun to use, and although the accuracy is terrible, I wonder if that's the intended trade-off, and it's supposed to be a high risk/reward headshot gun. That said, I think the penalties are a little too many, and at least the projectile speed or accuracy could be improved a bit.

Also, the appearance and sound effects are disgusting. 👍

[...L.u.n.a...]

TRUMNA: great, but ugly as hell AND just too big for female warframes, please allow the new OSCIRA SKIN to work for trumna, PLEASE! :-)

[(PSN)jockhotty]

On 2020-08-27 at 2:18 AM, reaper10678 said:

The seulcrum is impossible to obtain at its purchase rank because it requires a rank three prerequisite gem but its bp is from rank two. 

Those higher rank bp are 'fixed' by having the gem as a drop from vault type scenari