Valkyr (Missing lore) Discussion.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

So, Warframe as a game is fairly confusing, while the game is online, its content is meant to be seen as YOUR story, whit YOU being the main character, which means that most Warframes you get from bosses and quests are meant to be "THAT" Warframe, as in that the game and its story dont seem to link whit the fact that we can get multiple Embers or buy them from a Black Market, the game trys its best to give you a sense of story, even in the starchart, which brings us to Jupiter, and whit it, Valkyr.

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Valkyr was introduced in Nov.20 2013, on update 11, and as of now, she is a very problematic frame because of how DE made her lore.

By in game statements, the Valkyr we can adquire in game from Alad V, is a mutilated tortured soul that had parts of her (clearly) removed and she even comes whit a Corpus collar, been this Valkyr a Tenno or just the Warframe, we can say fore sure that this Valkyr was clearly damaged, meaning that the Valkyr we see, is but a glimpse of what a normal Valkyr should look like, but then comes the issue.

As of Sacrifice (and even 2nd dream) we know for a fact that Warframes can regenerate themselves, as our Warframes heal their sword wound from the Stalker and Umbra is seen using Void Energy to re-close his broken helmet, yet Valkyr has stayed in her broken state for several years now, which could be fixed if DE literally just made it a extra skin that comes whit the Warframe (Unless her alt helmet is how she was supposed to look like, but even so her body still has many Corpus tech stuck to her and clearly looks like she was skinned alive, hell, all her alt helmet d, so I would guess not), like how Umbra came whit the 2nd helmet.

But given that the later wasnt done by DE till now, and most likely not ever, soon comes another issue, the Leverian, this little museum has given lore to a a few Warframes by now, but wen it reaches Valkyr, what will it display ? Just a broken up Valkyr ? What sense does it make if by the game lore Alad V has only messed whit this 1 Valkyr, why would it now be the staple of how she looks ? Would this not just make her even more confusing to anyone new ?

Then we have the elephant in the room, Valkyr Gersemi, this skin is the most confusing thing DE could have ever made, while the wings the elbow blades and the tail arent a off-chance addition to how Valkyr would originally look like, the body trows that out the window, as it is way too detailed for a "Main" Warframes, more so then the already ridiculous Helmet, had the skin been less of a show-off and had it went more to the simple side of looks and kept inspiration from the broken Valkyr (Like the back blades and the helmet shape), it would have been more suitable and believable story, specially wen Valkyr Prime looks more like the broken up Valkyr then it does whit Gersemi.

So, basically, what I am getting at is that Valkyr and her lore are weird, and DE has yet to give a proper statement about Gersemi and its cannon, given a reason why Valkyr Prime looks more like the broken Valkyr then it does to the supposed original look, so much lore about this frame is nowhere to be seen, and unless DE retcons her lore or gives more info, it will stay as such.

Do you think DE will expand on this lore whit the Levirian ? or just maybe copy the cinematic story from the Valkyr Prime trailer or come out whit a story about a random Valkyr whiteout touching the subject ?

[YUNoJump]

This was a whole discussion back when Valkyr Prime first released, the conclusion that a lot of people reached was that Valkyr Gersemi existed, then the Orokin experimented on her to make Valkyr Prime. Then Alad V experimented on another Gersemi Valkyr to make his version of Valkyr, perhaps deliberately intending to replicate the Orokin experiments. He may have specifically found ways to restrict her regenerating lost parts, to answer that question.

A leverian entry could be very interesting, I hope they'd cover Gersemi's capture or what she was like before the experiments.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

This was a whole discussion back when Valkyr Prime first released, the conclusion that a lot of people reached was that Valkyr Gersemi existed, then the Orokin experimented on her to make Valkyr Prime. Then Alad V experimented on another Gersemi Valkyr to make his version of Valkyr, perhaps deliberately intending to replicate the Orokin experiments. He may have specifically found ways to restrict her regenerating lost parts, to answer that question.

A leverian entry could be very interesting, I hope they'd cover Gersemi's capture or what she was like before the experiments.

That story does sound fitting, the Corpus do have the history of reverse engineering Orokin items (Helios), so it would not be far-fetched that Alad V tried to temper whit Valkyr to change her trying to copy the Orokin.

I really hope that DE explores her lore whit the Levirian, thats the only way I would see fitting for the current broken up Valkyr to be in the podium. 

[--F--NerevarCM]

I folloy YUNoJump, but with a slightly different idea. Valkyr Prime is the original Valkyr made by the Orokins. Then the Tenno made the normal version Gersemi Valkyr.

The Corpus always following the Orokin steps, took Gersemi Valkyr and made the Valkyr we have. To look like Valkyr Prime. Thats why they made the Corpus tech and put on her, and removed all parts that aren't necessary.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

I folloy YUNoJump, but with a slightly different idea. Valkyr Prime is the original Valkyr made by the Orokins. Then the Tenno made the normal version Gersemi Valkyr.

The Corpus always following the Orokin steps, took Gersemi Valkyr and made the Valkyr we have. To look like Valkyr Prime. Thats why they made the Corpus tech and put on her, and removed all parts that aren't necessary.

Problem is that your idea doesn't fit the current lore, as nowhere in the game is stated that the Tenno had any hand in making any Warframe, YUNs story seems more fitting whit the lore in the game, as it uses information that does not go against the current lore, hell, it actually fits right in.

Guess we have to wait and see.

[NoLazyShadow]

I guess lore is another example that DE don't care about Valk existence.

[kgabor]

To me, this always appeared like the flavor text implying Valkyr Prime was (Gersemi) Valkyr's post Alad state, do you think it's completely out of the question Alad, maybe unintentionally managed to create a prime warframe with some kind of Orokin tech even if there was no prime Valkyr in the Orokin era?

From the wiki: 'A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice.'

Though my interpretation makes Valkyr look more like a person than a warframe, but this is what i had in mind the first time i noticed the contradiction between Gersemi and Prime.

 

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

2 minutes ago, kgabor said:

To me, this always appeared like the flavor text implying Valkyr Prime was (Gersemi) Valkyr's post Alad state, do you think it's completely out of the question Alad, maybe unintentionally managed to create a prime warframe with some kind of Orokin tech even if there was no prime Valkyr in the Orokin era?

From the wiki: 'A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice.'

Though my interpretation makes Valkyr look more like a person than a warframe, but this is what i had in mind the first time i noticed the contradiction between Gersemi and Prime.

 

Like I stated, the lore has many issues, as Valkyr concept of the berserker Warframe is kinda foggy, as her desc makes it sound she became this berserk beast because of all the experiments Alad V did to her, yet the Prime also has that theme, and was never touched by it.

Alad V created the current Valkyr, or in better terms somehow got his hands on a Valkyr and tor her apart and shoved as much Corpus tech in her as he could, Gersemi is stated as what Valkyr looked like before Alad V (even if the skin looks too exaggerated for a Main Warframe), and the Prime can only be gotten trough Orokin Relics that only we seem to now how to open.

[gaogrir]

Note this all happens quite early in the timeline; Alad has no knowledge of transference or that the Tenno even exist. Basically he's just poking 'dead' warframes to see what happens, he's not actually creating anything.

What he ends up with is a badly damaged, badly deformed Gersemi Valkyr, as well as some isolated bits of orokin tech that he continues to slap onto Zanuka.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

Just now, gaogrir said:

Note this all happens quite early in the timeline; Alad has no knowledge of transference or that the Tenno even exist. Basically he's just poking 'dead' warframes to see what happens, he's not actually creating anything.

What he ends up with is a badly damaged, badly deformed Gersemi Valkyr, as well as some isolated bits of orokin tech that he continues to slap onto Zanuka.

I would say thats the gist of it, problem is that DE never gave an actual statement so we have no idea what the cannon is, since if thats what happens it still leaves other questions, like why the Prime looks more like the broken Valkyr and not the Gersemi, or why Gersemi looks so extra compared to the other Main Warframes.

[SilentMobius]

2 hours ago, (PS4)I_I_Hope_I_I said:

So, basically, what I am getting at is that Valkyr and her lore are weird, and DE has yet to give a proper statement about Gersemi and its cannon,

The lore is fine, it's just spartan. you are making assumptions then becomming confused because your assumptions don't make sense.

1. Gersemi is Valkyr before Alad V vivisected her, it was stated when it was designed that has not changed
2. Just because some damage can be repaired does not meen all damage can be repaired, just like scar tissue sometimes changes are perminent.
3. The only stated difference between the Post-Alad V Valkyr and the Pre-Alad V Valyry is that the later version is said to be "scared" that's it, both old and new were feral and killers, but the changed Valkyr was "scared". There is no need for any other differences, any assumptions that there should be are simply player assumptions, not in any way founded in the game.

Given that DE have already mixed "skin" assets in with a laverian story (Ash uses "delux" items in it's lavarian entry) I see no reason that the Lavarian wouldn't tell a story including Gersemi and the modern Valkry, essentially sidestepping the lack of the Gradivus Dilemma for newer players.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

The lore is fine, it's just spartan. you are making assumptions then becomming confused because your assumptions don't make sense.

1. Gersemi is Valkyr before Alad V vivisected her, it was stated when it was designed that has not changed
2. Just because some damage can be repaired does not meen all damage can be repaired, just like scar tissue sometimes changes are perminent.
3. The only stated difference between the Post-Alad V Valkyr and the Pre-Alad V Valyry is that the later version is said to be "scared" that's it, both old and new were feral and killers, but the changed Valkyr was "scared". There is no need for any other differences, any assumptions that there should be are simply player assumptions, not in any way founded in the game.

Given that DE have already mixed "skin" assets in with a laverian story (Ash uses "delux" items in it's lavarian entry) I see no reason that the Lavarian wouldn't tell a story including Gersemi and the modern Valkry, essentially sidestepping the lack of the Gradivus Dilemma for newer players.

I guess, just wonder how they will include a whole skin to it, maybe just the helmet ?

[Aadi880]

il y a 29 minutes, (PS4)I_I_Hope_I_I a dit :

I guess, just wonder how they will include a whole skin to it, maybe just the helmet ?

I don't think a display would be required.

Heck, Zanuka's color channels resembles the Gersemi Valkyr, so if Alad V actually did mess around with a Gersemi Valkyr, and that it existed, then there could indeed could be another "valkyr type" (due to a lack of a better word) after the Orokin's Valkyr Prime, made by someone not Orokin (Tenno maybe idk).

With that in mind, Darusus would show the Gersemi Valkyr on the warframe display instead of the usual one from Alad, should DE ever make a Leverian for Valkyr.

(However, this seems unlikely for Valkyr to have a leverian... 😞 )

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

2 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

I don't think a display would be required.

Heck, Zanuka's color channels resembles the Gersemi Valkyr, so if Alad V actually did mess around with a Gersemi Valkyr, and that it existed, then there could indeed could be another "valkyr type" (due to a lack of a better word) after the Orokin's Valkyr Prime, made by someone not Orokin (Tenno maybe idk).

With that in mind, Darusus would show the Gersemi Valkyr on the warframe display instead of the usual one from Alad, should DE ever make a Leverian for Valkyr.

(However, this seems unlikely for Valkyr to have a leverian... 😞 )

I believe DE stated every Warframe would eventually get one, we just have to be patient and see what DE comes up whit.

[SilentMobius]

6 hours ago, (PS4)I_I_Hope_I_I said:

I guess, just wonder how they will include a whole skin to it, maybe just the helmet ?

I mean there is a display with the whole Warframe at the end of each Laverian path, why could there not be the same and also a full Gersemmi earlier on?

If it were me doing the art design I'd show Gersemi in a noble stance but with hysteria active showing the claws and the chordalla near the start. Then at the end show modern Valkyr in the classic feral hysteria stance with the bonds and make a comment such like:

Quote

"Horrific vivisection and experimentation such that the interface cables, bonds and incisions aped the lines of the Orokin Era Prime, cruelly erasing Gersemi's design, identity and leaving only the animal, Valkyr"

 

[Myscho]

Ah sht, here we go again

[war_framer_2017]

(edited) Not being able to delete my reply on a forum was not what i was expecting from WF forum. 10/10

[nerfinator6]

Gersemi valkyr was skinned to make the non prime valkyr. It literally says that in the description of Gersemi valkyr.

[Marine027]

Am 23.8.2020 um 08:20 schrieb (PS4)I_I_Hope_I_I:

I believe DE stated every Warframe would eventually get one, we just have to be patient and see what DE comes up whit.

Having one not means it has to make sense, i remind of Nova, it was a simple epic story, but not related to anything as a Warframe, just the original person Nova was apperently, same for Ivara. Same for most frames like Grendal, Ash, etc.

I mean they can tell us any story about them and we have ot see it as true withour visuals or proof. Most Trailers we used to have like Saryn Prime tell us more about a frame honestly then this audibook excuse of lore to save on making quests, i remind you that DE also back then promised Quests for older frames aswell as lore, then changed there mind.

Leviran honestly will be dropped soon i fear and not all frames get lore, especially the ones that literally only exists because "cool" concept, Wips, Hyldrin, etc. They have no reason lore wise to exist simply and this hurts the world building sadly, i mean with Valkyr, it was a attmept to connect the boss to the frame parts is drop, yet we not see this on any other boss, why has Vay Hek Hydroid, why is Ember on Sargas Ruk, only thematically really, earth, water, Ruk, Fire onbiously.

And this is the main problem DE has, like with gamepaly stuff like Railjack and Lichs, K-Drive, and so on, it all stacks up and gets shoved in, becoming to much, while also trying to fit it in the world afterwards. This is not how most games work, it is actually the worst game design, making the map then look what fits in basically, instead of making a story, what populates the world THEN make the map how the world could fit. But DE does this it basically like this, making big maps, then look what could fit in even if it not makes sense lore wise.

Take Deimos as example i not expect big revelations onto anything Orokin or those Mech guardians, just some new big map with suppsoed "epic" new open world bosses you can fight, but do they make sense most the time probably not, i mean Lephantis was this so old creature, evolved over years, only to get a copy paste on the infested meteor (which also was suppsoed to be just a "placeholder", yet never changed) and now a new world appearing out of nowhere literally with no one even noticed this infested part of the galaxy with even stronger enemys then Lephantis which is proably as old as them if not older?

This is basically as example a MMO issue, making old bosses into generic adds after certain levels, taking there uniqueness away. Or hell, Dragonball level of just shoivng the next stronger one in line.

[SneakyErvin]

There are a few reasons why the prime and the valkyr looks similar while Gersemi does not.

1. Alad V is supposedly an Orokin, so he's been around.

2. Valkyr Prime is the "original". Gersemi is simply 1 out of several tenno versions, the one that happens to get captured by Alad. Gersemi simply rocks custom ablatives, like many frames do when we swap their skin.

3. Due to point 1 Alad has some idea to make it look similar to the prime, with shackles and all that.

The real issue here, like with all other "unique" frames is that there should only ever be one of them around with that specific shape. This goes for all quest related frames for instance, since only 1 single tenno out of the several thousand experience the quest stories. There arent thousands of different Inaros out there involved in identical stories, nor are there thousands of Octavias with a story tied to Hunhow etc. And in Valkyr's case, since several people imply she got hysteria due to what Alad V did, no other Valkyr should have that skill.

[Marine027]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

1. Alad V is supposedly an Orokin, so he's been around.

Not exactly, Hunhow states he loosk Orokin or assumes, i would assume they are just ancestors in some way at best, but not that he was around such, or else he would had known much more about things or could had gone in the void able to bypass the security with his knowledge aswell.

Compare Ballas or the Plant mother we saw in Deimos trailer to him, big, long arms, etc, deifntly Orokin traits they seem to have, Alad does not.

So Hunhow only seen it probalby due his curisity, he is not greedy like corpsu usually but curiosu likea true scienist, something most Orokin were. So he might simply confuse him for one.

vor 18 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

2. Valkyr Prime is the "original". Gersemi is simply 1 out of several tenno versions, the one that happens to get captured by Alad. Gersemi simply rocks custom ablatives, like many frames do when we swap their skin.

Yes but skins are not gameply, DE cut themself in the own foot addign lore to this skin, like with Nova now In Leviran, or how you explain then skins liek the Hayden skin, which is a easteregg/homage more then a actual skin, or Nyx Proto skin, etc.

They are jsut cool designs, but adding this bit of description, adding lore ot the Deluxe they screwed it up, skins are not canon, just a gameplay gimmick, like when you transmog your armor in an MMO, when your hero stands around in a bikini in the epic cutsene as example, it is not accurate and canon that you switch.

[-Ryuurei-]

Oh boy, Valkyr lore, here we go again.

You actually bring up an interesting point with the regeneration. First of all, Umbra is the only instance we see of this, many years after valkyr's introduction, so it likely wasn't a thing yet back then, but let's explain this with "there are limits to the regeneration". After all, Umbra himself was completely destroyed in the cutscene at the start, which is why his helmet was damaged in the first place after we reconstructed him. Alad V probably had some method to either inflict lasting damage or turn off the regeneration, neither of which are unlikely (hell, Zanuka specifically has a bomb that dispels abilities).

Why does Alad's experiment affect "everyone's" view of Valkyr?
Simple, there aren't any other Valkyrs remaining, the one he used is all we have left to go on.

Next up, Gersemi. According to DE, all deluxe skins except for Gersemi are non-canon (this was before leverians, so the more recent ones which are featured in those might be, at least partially). This means that Valkyr Gersemi is indeed the regular version of valkyr pre-Alad V, as its description states. If we'd gotten to her before he had, we would've gotten (lore-wise) her Gersemi skin as default.

Now how does the prime fit in?
Well, it doesn't... Hear me out.
Lets start off on the premise of there being Valkyr Prime (true) and Valkyr Prime (ingame).
Valkyr Prime (true) is the real way Valkyr Prime should look, lore-wise, and would be similar to the Gersemi skin. If we'd gotten this version, the Gersemi skin might have even worked on it while retaining prime accents, whereas other skins would not.
It's either this version or regular Gersemi that Alad V got his hands on to make Valkyr.
Valkyr Prime (ingame) is the design we were given, made this way because DE didn't want to anger people that had bought the Gersemi skin already, which they have explicitly stated as the reason. (I can't find that statement anymore though, it's been a while and I never saved it). They've indirectly but undeniably admitted that her design is against the lore (though they might've changed their minds since and tried retconning that). So the design we see ingame is effectively non-canon.

So what does this mean for a potential leverian?
DE could either make a story of her deeds back in the orokin era, like the others, or they could expand on the Alad V experimentation done to her, proving more details to the few facts we know. I feel the most fitting design to put on the end pedestal would be the Gersemi if they with the former option, and the base design if they go with the latter. Considering they always try to put an alt helmet in, I feel expanding on the Alad V lore would work best, while using the Kara helmet to do so, as none of her alt helmets fit the design of the Gersemi skin too well.

Bonus lore: The reason multiple of a frame can be running around.
Firstly, frames are infested (Helminth) people, fitted with transference bolts at some point during their transition from human to warframe.
Second: the infestation, when it creates a unit for the first time, saves this as a template of sorts for future reference. Next time it gains enough material, it can recreate this unit, even if the original structure is different. This is why we see both infested corpus (runners, leapers, drones, etc.) together with grineer (chargers). It doesn't necessarily require the same kind of input, as long as it has all the required material available.
So by combining both these facts... The blueprints for warframes are used to tell Helminth how to grow its infestation to make a specific warframe, even without a person as base. The only time a person was used as base was for the very first prototype of each frame, hence why our regular frames are mostly mindless. Umbra is special, since we reconstructed a blueprint from his fresh remains on Earth, including his semi-intact head. We basically revived him from the dead as opposed to made a new one that does the same things.

TL:DR: regeneration disabled by Alad V during experiments, that was probably the only valkyr discovered since the fall of the orokin, the valkyr p design we got is more or less non-canon, gersemi is pre-Alad V, leverian could be about Valkyr during the orokin era, or go in depth about her experimentation. Multiple of any frame other than Umbra existing is supported in the lore.

[SneakyErvin]

24 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Yes but skins are not gameply, DE cut themself in the own foot addign lore to this skin, like with Nova now In Leviran, or how you explain then skins liek the Hayden skin, which is a easteregg/homage more then a actual skin, or Nyx Proto skin, etc.

They are jsut cool designs, but adding this bit of description, adding lore ot the Deluxe they screwed it up, skins are not canon, just a gameplay gimmick, like when you transmog your armor in an MMO, when your hero stands around in a bikini in the epic cutsene as example, it is not accurate and canon that you switch.

Some are just cool designs, the valkyr skin simply got a story tied to it. All skins are canon in some way, Gersemi just specifies how it is canon. Just like certain specific helmets etc. end up is cut scenes throughout the game. The Tenno seem to like to alter and personalize their frames, Gersemi was one such a case which happened to get captures. People just read into the flavor text to much, making it mean that Gersemi was the first Valkyr, when it probably just means Gersemi was what that specific Valkyr was prior to Alad V, the original of that specific frame.

Kinda like how a car of model X can be the original for a custom, that still doesnt mean that model X is the very first of that specific car brand. In the case of Valkyr, Gersemi was simply one of many Valkyrs used by several tenno after the collapse, with both a prime and a proto/bio-drone version prior to that during the orokin era.

[DrakeWurrum]

16 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

This was a whole discussion back when Valkyr Prime first released, the conclusion that a lot of people reached was that Valkyr Gersemi existed, then the Orokin experimented on her to make Valkyr Prime. Then Alad V experimented on another Gersemi Valkyr to make his version of Valkyr, perhaps deliberately intending to replicate the Orokin experiments. He may have specifically found ways to restrict her regenerating lost parts, to answer that question.

A leverian entry could be very interesting, I hope they'd cover Gersemi's capture or what she was like before the experiments.

I'd always perceived it the other way around. Valkyr Prime came first as the Orokin design.

Gersemi was the Tenno-modified design, same as all our other non-Prime frames are, before Alad V got his hands on her. I feel like after the Tenno turned on their Orokin masters, there was a good amount of time where Tenno were able to tinker with their frames and modify them (hence why we have Helminth in the Orbiter for doing exactly that).

Alad V captured *the* Valkyr in her Gersemi form, tortured her, operated on her, skinned her alive, etc... leaving the "strain" of Infestation that Valkyr comes from permanently altered, and thus all Valkyr are twisted, all possessing the memories of what Alad V did to that one "original" Valkyr. I'm willing to bet that memories can remain within the frames if they're intense enough (something Sacrifice kinda proved).

My headcanon is that all frames beyond the original 8 or so were unique frames belonging to only one Tenno. The originals being Excalibur, Ash, Ember, Rhino, Loki, Mag, Trinity, and Volt. We could probably include a couple more in that group, like Frost, Banshee, Nyx... so maybe there's a certain point where Ballas stopped mass-producing copies, and instead focused on creating new designs.
I don't believe that Valkyr was a mass-produced frame.

[Marvelous_A]

Don't dwell too deep into Warframe's lore. It's so inconsistent you only confuse yourself even more if you try to find the head and tail of it.

Simply speaking, Orokin made Valkyr Prime, Orokin or Tenno may have made the normal Valkyr with unique appearance (the Gersemi) , anyway a certain Tenno uses the Gersemi until it is eventually captured by Alad V and being experimented on. With the customized armor stripped it resembles a low cost Valkyr Prime. The Prime doesn't exist in the plot, has nothing to do with Alad V and only exist as a blueprint in current time. But it existed in the old war controlled by perhaps an unknown Tenno.

The Gersemi might be the general design of normal Valkyr or it's customized for a certain Tenno. There is no way to know for now. But warframes are known to look very differently for normal and primed version it's not a secret. According to PS4 trailer warframes with alternative appearance exists in the universe (the dismembered Excalibur uses the Pendragon helmet).