Reverse Valkyr's Hysteria Nerf, or Nerf Revenant, Rhino, Nidus, etc

[Pizzarugi]

Valkyr's nerf to her Hysteria doesn't make sense in the current state of the game when we have multiple frames that are just as immortal as she is, but have nowhere near as much dependence on energy to maintain it.

It's not like her exalted weapon was anything to write home about either compared to other frames. All she had going for her was her ability to just ignore all damage while channeling. The reason she got nerfed was because she could be almost permanently invulnerable if you build enough duration and/or efficiency. Their solution was to make her energy drain scale up the longer it was active. Now nobody plays her. I see more Revenant players than I see Valkyr. Why? Because Revenant can be just as permanently invincible for nowhere near the same amount of energy cost. Same with Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus's passive.

It's a matter of consistency on the subject. If we're going to have unkillable frames doing almost exactly what Valkyr did, then Valkyr should no longer have a scaling energy drain. Either that or the other frames I had mentioned need to be nerfed in the immortality department.

And inb4 snarky "OP is a salty Valkyr main" comment: I main Revenant and Nidus. I have more to lose from DE nerfing them than if they leave Valkyr as is.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

-removed-
 

Edit: just realized this was hysteria, not warcry. My bad

[Derium-Envy]

The only changes that DE is doing for Hysteria is removing the invulnerability more and more with each Parazon addition. First it was hacking, then reviving, who knows what QOL goes next.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Hysteria was one of the things I was most excited for... I hope it's still viable with Eternal War even with a nerf. If so, it won't matter to me tbh, since I'll be replenishing that time anyway through kills.

[Benaful]

hace 1 hora, Pizzarugi dijo:

Valkyr's nerf to her Hysteria doesn't make sense in the current state of the game when we have multiple frames that are just as immortal as she is, but have nowhere near as much dependence on energy to maintain it.

It's not like her exalted weapon was anything to write home about either compared to other frames. All she had going for her was her ability to just ignore all damage while channeling. The reason she got nerfed was because she could be almost permanently invulnerable if you build enough duration and/or efficiency. Their solution was to make her energy drain scale up the longer it was active. Now nobody plays her. I see more Revenant players than I see Valkyr. Why? Because Revenant can be just as permanently invincible for nowhere near the same amount of energy cost. Same with Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus's passive.

It's a matter of consistency on the subject. If we're going to have unkillable frames doing almost exactly what Valkyr did, then Valkyr should no longer have a scaling energy drain. Either that or the other frames I had mentioned need to be nerfed in the immortality department.

And inb4 snarky "OP is a salty Valkyr main" comment: I main Revenant and Nidus. I have more to lose from DE nerfing them than if they leave Valkyr as is.

For me, Vlakyr started to be relevant again in the steel path. especially good whit ENRAGED, this adds massive damge to the claws, and no longer have a constant drain just cooldown equivalent to the time used, Natural talent to get in and out of the state, and to spam war cry whit a swift gameplay, she is overall my choice against corpus in the steel path and second most used frame, her base 4 is bad but whit the augument and natural talent shines, umbral mods makes her even better. The Big valkyr problems are her other 2 skills, 1 and 3, wich i never use, war cry is nice CC and buff, Enraged a good weapon, since i dont need presure point i can add range mods in the claws along a lot of crit and crit damge.

[Oreades]

Oh we're talking an age old nerf here, I'd instinctively gone to check for patch notes lol.

Yeah the Valk nerf was pretty heavyhanded also fun fact it was the last straw that caused one of my friends to leave the game. 

Never really seriously played her myself but I can sympathize. 

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

Completely agree. Revenant is an example as you say, but also things like Gauss that even though he doesn't posses resistance to every damage type he still has a 100% resistance to the 3 most common damage types plus 3 more, and thanks to the buffs he can keep it up for a long duration.

Although instead of reverting Hysteria I would prefer it they were to finally revisit her, maybe with her second deluxe. After 6+ years, I think it's time.

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

Completely agree. Revenant is an example as you say, but also things like Gauss that even though he doesn't posses resistance to every damage type he still has a 100% resistance to the 3 most common damage types plus 3 more, and thanks to the buffs he can keep it up for a long duration.

Although instead of reverting Hysteria I would prefer it they were to finally revisit her, maybe with her second deluxe. After 6+ years, I think it's time.

Unfortunately Valkyr is one of the old frames thought for a "normal" game. Most recent frames are totally broken designed specially for  "new players" for the current broken  senseless game. All this  after 7 years of development.

[Pizzarugi]

18 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Unfortunately Valkyr is one of the old frames thought for a "normal" game. Most recent frames are totally broken designed specially for  "new players" for the current broken  senseless game. All this  after 7 years of development.

From a game that had a feeling of being like a tactical shooter where ammo and energy mattered, to a power fantasy slaughterhouse.

No idea when or why it happened, but it happened, now Valkyr is falling behind with old balance passes that were appropriate for its time.

[CopperBezel]

Yeah, we should definitely go back to the Super Jump meta. 

But yeah, in reality, Valkyr seems to need a rework for the twitchy horde beat-em-up with room clears, but she's unfortunately not alone in that. Vauban and Ember got their reworks, Zephyr is still forever waiting....

[bibmobello]

26 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

From a game that had a feeling of being like a tactical shooter where ammo and energy mattered, to a power fantasy slaughterhouse.

No idea when or why it happened, but it happened, now Valkyr is falling behind with old balance passes that were appropriate for its time.

Ahaha a tactical shooter, excluding the tactical part  i still haven't seen anyone using a gun even after the maiming strike nerf. On wikipedia this game should be classified  even as a rpg, now excluding the insane grinding to increase the MR i am still missing the rpg part.

probably the best definition for this game is tactical click game(and the only tactic is to find new players for DE ).lol

thanks god i am not a founder because i would ask for a refund + the moral damages. 

ahahahahaahahahahah

[CopperBezel]

31 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

i still haven't seen anyone using a gun even after the maiming strike nerf.

Just so you know, melee became significantly more powerful in the average case with the 3.0 changes, so there'd be no reason to expect melee use to drop off. Condition Overload, Blood Rush, and Maiming Strike were all knocked down to normal, but as a part of a broader package of things that were mostly very significant buffs. 

Edit: And then the status changes came, and Weeping Wounds became a second Blood Rush....

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Just so you know, melee became significantly more powerful in the average case with the 3.0 changes, so there'd be no reason to expect melee use to drop off. Condition Overload, Blood Rush, and Maiming Strike were all knocked down to normal, but as a part of a broader package of things that were mostly very significant buffs. 

Yes a solution could be buffing even the guns or reducing the health, armor and shields of enemies even more...

ahahahahahahahahaahah😆😂😵

[Kaotis]

hace 11 horas, Pizzarugi dijo:

Valkyr's nerf to her Hysteria doesn't make sense in the current state of the game when we have multiple frames that are just as immortal as she is, but have nowhere near as much dependence on energy to maintain it.

It's not like her exalted weapon was anything to write home about either compared to other frames. All she had going for her was her ability to just ignore all damage while channeling. The reason she got nerfed was because she could be almost permanently invulnerable if you build enough duration and/or efficiency. Their solution was to make her energy drain scale up the longer it was active. Now nobody plays her. I see more Revenant players than I see Valkyr. Why? Because Revenant can be just as permanently invincible for nowhere near the same amount of energy cost. Same with Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus's passive.

It's a matter of consistency on the subject. If we're going to have unkillable frames doing almost exactly what Valkyr did, then Valkyr should no longer have a scaling energy drain. Either that or the other frames I had mentioned need to be nerfed in the immortality department.

And inb4 snarky "OP is a salty Valkyr main" comment: I main Revenant and Nidus. I have more to lose from DE nerfing them than if they leave Valkyr as is.

You think thous 2 are imortal ? how about inaros with umbra mods, all the hp mods +grace +guardian  you feel the danger at every step whiles you go afk to the bathroom in a lev 200 situation, come back and see oh i didn't drop below 99,9% of hp ... that was dangerous.

Also there is Oberon with grace+guardian + umbra mods + energy back if damaged mods, gl kiling somthing that regens so much xD.

I ussed to main valkyr (tecnicaly she is stil my 3rd or 4th most used frame acording to profile info) the initial "rework" aka "nerf hammer" they did at that particular time was the correct move tbh, she directly eliminated any dificulty in the game. Now days aka 2k20 power creep central it's unfair to say that she deserves this treatment. I'd go a step further and say if she doesn't get her old style imortality she needs a rework. Her kit is literaly 2 keys with minimal sinergy , her 1 is down right wtf and her 3 wanky af imho .

[NoLazyShadow]

Don't ask to fix one useless ability. Demand complete rework, as we demand it for 6 years and will demand it till we get whats ours!

[(PSN)thegarada]

16 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Valkyr's nerf to her Hysteria doesn't make sense in the current state of the game when we have multiple frames that are just as immortal as she is, but have nowhere near as much dependence on energy to maintain it.

It's not like her exalted weapon was anything to write home about either compared to other frames. All she had going for her was her ability to just ignore all damage while channeling. The reason she got nerfed was because she could be almost permanently invulnerable if you build enough duration and/or efficiency. Their solution was to make her energy drain scale up the longer it was active. Now nobody plays her. I see more Revenant players than I see Valkyr. Why? Because Revenant can be just as permanently invincible for nowhere near the same amount of energy cost. Same with Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus's passive.

It's a matter of consistency on the subject. If we're going to have unkillable frames doing almost exactly what Valkyr did, then Valkyr should no longer have a scaling energy drain. Either that or the other frames I had mentioned need to be nerfed in the immortality department.

And inb4 snarky "OP is a salty Valkyr main" comment: I main Revenant and Nidus. I have more to lose from DE nerfing them than if they leave Valkyr as is.

Question, when talking about Valkyr nerf, when was this nerf you are talking about? I know the skill had less drain in the past, but I assume that was years ago. I have been playing the game for 18 month, and Valkyr had no changes. 

In any case, I do not think the drain change is enough. Without additional damage, the skill only effective point is the invulnerability. It needs more damage.

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, (PS4)thegarada сказал:

Question, when talking about Valkyr nerf, when was this nerf you are talking about?

 Back in the days of melee 2.0 when Valk was unplayable, got hysterya rework and then it weas nerfed to its current state with everything else falling apart

[Andele3025]

6 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Don't ask to fix one useless ability. Demand complete rework, as we demand it for 6 years and will demand it till we get whats ours!

Its the one fix thats crucial tho. Ripline is easily fixed with just swapping pull strengths and momentum kills (or well, lack of it on enemy and existence on valkitty, tho it was recently stealth changed to retain prior momentum during aimglide bette/some 8m extra distance gained and making using it to extend instead of interrupt bulletjumps legit) and paralysis only issue is in a factor noone wants (ragdoll strength not applying) and was unreasonable to build for even before getting derped.

Hysteria meanwhile got nerfhammered with something that even back then had design crux that goes against the theme of the frame, has a downside not-related to its mechanics and the efficient ways to avoid the downside are based on mechanics that contradict the ability usage (well one thats against the frames design, one that completely voids it and another that makes the "self damage" only exist in form of "when you leave hysteria, you maybe do so without shields").

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

 Back in the days of melee 2.0 when Valk was unplayable, got hysterya rework and then it weas nerfed to its current state with everything else falling apart

I see. I started WF few month before melee 3.0.

I agree, Valkyr does need some buffs. If RIP and Paralysis are changed to better suit what she actually does, we could see significant improvements. One can hope. But DE rarely ever update frames. I remember last year, only 9 frames got any work, and 4 of them were new frames that got tuning shortly after release. Only 5 older frames go any level of work the last year. I am hoping that the Helminth system may accelerate frame balance adjustments. 

[kgabor]

Or rather improve Hysteria, so that it applies not invulnerability, but a damage reduction that lets you sustain it with Rage/Hunter Adrenaline instead.

Melee hits in Hysteria could add a moment of invulnerability similar to Atlas's punches, this should only last for the duration of the attack's animation or less, otherwise it would be abused with spin attacks.

Reaching a high duration with Eternal War (should be built into the base ability imo.)could reduce the energy drain on Hysteria.

Valkyr's Talons could apply a high range aggro draw on channeling, seriously bring back channeling, why it was removed in the first place?

This would incentivise an active playstyle while using Hysteria without being overly punishing.

[GREF_TM]

She needs a proper rework, along with excal.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2020-08-24 at 8:14 AM, (PS4)thegarada said:

Question, when talking about Valkyr nerf, when was this nerf you are talking about? I know the skill had less drain in the past, but I assume that was years ago. I have been playing the game for 18 month, and Valkyr had no changes. 

This one is very old. Update 18.13 to be exact in May 2016. It's always had an energy drain while being channeled, but it wasn't until this update that it started to scale higher and become more expensive the longer you stayed in it.

On 2020-08-24 at 8:14 AM, (PS4)thegarada said:

In any case, I do not think the drain change is enough. Without additional damage, the skill only effective point is the invulnerability. It needs more damage.

I agree, it should get touched up in damage.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Many of the early frames need overhauls. 

They were built for a game that doesn't exist anymore. And they had their hand slapped for things that newer frames now do better and more easily. 

The silver lining is that DE agrees. I saw an interview around Tennocon where they said they needed to update older frames to the standards of the newer ones. 

[selig_fay]

On 8/24/2020 at 3:31 AM, Pizzarugi said:

From a game that had a feeling of being like a tactical shooter where ammo and energy mattered, to a power fantasy slaughterhouse.

No idea when or why it happened, but it happened, now Valkyr is falling behind with old balance passes that were appropriate for its time.

Trinity with ogris has almost always existed. Also, let's not forget why the rhino stomp got damage nerf.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2020-08-25 at 3:45 PM, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

The silver lining is that DE agrees. I saw an interview around Tennocon where they said they needed to update older frames to the standards of the newer ones.

If they "update" Valkyr, I hope they keep her invincibility on her 4. At the very least, un-nerf the energy drain and boost the damage a bit.