MizzieD Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 22 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said: It's fine. It'll slow down progress at first due to the slight bottlenecking, but within two weeks people will have it figured out. Also, the fact that all standing points are issued in the form of stored tokens means that you'll never waste standing from doing Bounties. The issue with the Son's tokens being difficult to acquire has basically already been sorted with the first hotfix, in that you don't need them right away, and by the time you need them, you'll be able to get them. Calling it. Within two weeks, the uproar about it will be a blip, because people logged in and felt like they hit a wall. It was actually just a narrow gate that's designed to slow you down and prevent people from destroying all the update's content in the first week. Yeah but people don't want their progress slowed by constantly being bottlenecked, people want to be challenged or to be entertained by new mechanics or ideas. mother tokens, great, helps out people that don't have hours per day to grind, so that if you want, you could grind out 200k standing on a weekend when you have time. the other tokens? no, it's horrible, it's a time-loop, constantly making you check in to constantly keep an eye on the game. I get it, i really do, DE wants you to spend as much time as possible to make their game shine with how many concurrent active players there are, even if all they do is go in and check token deals to maybe be lucky to squeeze out another Son token so they don't have to do another 8 captures for one more token, but it's just not fun or entertaining. Bungie did this same exact thing with D2 and so many people just.. lay off of it because it's not fun being pushed on time and being pushed into ''HEY; COME DO THIS, DO THIS NOW.'' kind of attitude in a game. Again, i'm not being overly negative, because the mother tokens are honestly great, and the idea of catching a weakened pet to then tame/cure it yourself is also.. neat, you know. it adds to it. For bottlenecking we already have the standing cap and that's enough as is, anybody who's even remotely able to grasp the concept of size knows that a 3GB DLC won't bring months of content, but rather in the timeline of maybe a week-two week of freshness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 41 minutes ago, Lutesque said: I never saw any of those.... 😮 Me neither, but there are screenshots of them laying about in the caves apparently. Quote This is what I've been seeing the most of.... Right now it seems like DE's solution was to simply move the Rank Up requires to a later rank.... We'll see if this actually fixes the issue or if it's just delaying the inevitable. Yeah because the early whiners finally realised that we can passively earn tokens for everyone but Son. The way I see it, conservation exists, and is a part of the things that the Family does. Asking that we at least participate on a minor scale is fair. It's not something that I enjoy, but I will get it done in my own time. Why? Because I want to get to the things behind it. Quote DE likes RNG way too much.... It's their go to Strategy for locking players out of progress.... That's why the tokens are a good system. The only thing Rng about it is what the current request for tokens is. As we collect more resources it'll get to the point where we can get combinations every time. As we figure out the conservation targets, dropping them from the helicopter will become easier and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel_Rook Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 23 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said: Calling it. Within two weeks, the uproar about it will be a blip, because people logged in and felt like they hit a wall. It was actually just a narrow gate that's designed to slow you down and prevent people from destroying all the update's content in the first week. That's how predatory game design gets normalised. "Well, it's not actually that bad. You just need to be willing to accept this bad design then it's OK." Yeah, that's why it keeps getting worse. With every update, DE dial the grind up a little at a time, seeing how far they can push it before people complain. And when people complain, they sit on it seeing how long they can hold out before stepping back a little. Take a step back for a moment and consider what you're saying. "It's not that bad" is not exactly a ringing endorsement of a progression system. No, it's not as bad as it first appears... But it's still bad, and I honestly feel we ought to hold DE responsible at SOME point. I don't exaggerate when I say that Warframe is a genuinely good game consistently undermined by its own progression system. Every new update makes older content seem generous by comparison, and that's not good - certainly not something we should be defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Steel_Rook said: That's how predatory game design gets normalised. "Well, it's not actually that bad. You just need to be willing to accept this bad design then it's OK." Yeah, that's why it keeps getting worse. With every update, DE dial the grind up a little at a time, seeing how far they can push it before people complain. And when people complain, they sit on it seeing how long they can hold out before stepping back a little. Take a step back for a moment and consider what you're saying. "It's not that bad" is not exactly a ringing endorsement of a progression system. No, it's not as bad as it first appears... But it's still bad, and I honestly feel we ought to hold DE responsible at SOME point. I don't exaggerate when I say that Warframe is a genuinely good game consistently undermined by its own progression system. Every new update makes older content seem generous by comparison, and that's not good - certainly not something we should be defending. You're not wrong here. In part and this is gonna sound extremely harsh of me...I just shrug because I no longer expect better of Warframe. I log in for big updates, and play with the new toys, I do not expect balanced gameplay, I do not expect consistency of lore, backstory, or story development. In between big updates, I play very sporadically. On the plus side, Iso Vaults contain a load of trade materials for token gaining, so that's nice. Downside, DE just 100% borked Iso Vaults in the last Hotfix, do not attempt them until the next fix reverts whatever the hell they did. Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel_Rook Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, BornWithTeeth said: You're not wrong here. In part and this is gonna sound extremely harsh of me...I just shrug because I no longer expect better of Warframe. I log in for big updates, and play with the new toys, I do not expect balanced gameplay, I do not expect consistency of lore, backstory, or story development. In between big updates, I play very sporadically. Well, I'm getting there myself. With every update, I'm still astounded to see the game get stingy in new and creative ways I couldn't have conceived of before. However, I still feel that public pressure works. When enough people complain long enough and consistently enough to make it clear to DE that they can't get away with it THIS time, they respond. They roll back changes, they make corrections. Cetus and Fortuna are mostly OK after their various economy redesigns... Although that's mostly in comparison to more recent content. I don't know... Maybe I'm still too new, but DE's design behaviour never fails to appal me. They have a genuinely good game on their hands, but they also have one of the worst, most predatory monetisation systems this side of lootboxes and one of the worst, most soul-crushing grinds even compared to the old early 2000s MMOs... Yet people keep singing their praises. "This is F2P done right!" It's to the point where I had to entirely give up on earning things in-game in favour of buying stuff with real money, but I guess I keep trying to see Warframe as a "game," rather than a content delivery platform masquerading as a game. Because realistically, that's the point. I'm convinced that DE don't actually want us earning our items. They want us buying them with Plat. Oh, they'll go on about how the progression system is designed to keep people from earning everything overnight and burning themselves out, but nothing's stopping me from paying money to buy everything overnight - because that's different and won't burn me out, somehow? And I'm honestly considering it, too - much as I realise that's just adding to the problem and validating the design. I would have done that already, if I had ANY interest in Infested items. Wonder if I can buy a Necromech, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Can't honestly agree too much with that though, I find that most things in the game are not too hard to acquire. Grindy maybe, but not too hard. I do stand by my statement that within a couple of weeks, the grind on Deimos will be rightly considered a joke as people will have figured out the strats, and DE will have compromised on some of the dafter implementation. I'm more disappointed in inconsistency of story and writing, frequent retcons, and unfinished game aspects or things which were introduced and then never followed up on, combined with ever increasing power creep which necessitates bullet sponge enemies, and the inability to properly overhaul core gameplay concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 38 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Me neither, but there are screenshots of them laying about in the caves apparently. No I mean I never saw any of those threads about those specific complaints. 39 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: The way I see it, conservation exists, and is a part of the things that the Family does. Asking that we at least participate on a minor scale is fair. No it's not... If that's what the family does then let them keep doing it and leave me out of it. That's Fair... 40 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: That's why the tokens are a good system. This Sentence by itself would be good... Unfortunately you just had to ruin it by: 43 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: The only thing Rng about it is what the current request for tokens is. As we collect more resources it'll get to the point where we can get combinations every time. As we figure out the conservation targets, dropping them from the helicopter will become easier and faster. Sorry but this doesn't make the system feel any better. RNG is was and will always frustrating. 18 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said: That's how predatory game design gets normalised. "Well, it's not actually that bad. You just need to be willing to accept this bad design then it's OK." Yeah, that's why it keeps getting worse. LoL... This Describes It Perfectly !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 44 minutes ago, Lutesque said: No I mean I never saw any of those threads about those specific complaints. Oh that's lucky for you. 🙂 Guess you got really lucky with the RNG yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Oh that's lucky for you. 🙂 Guess you got really lucky with the RNG yesterday. Indeed... Now where's my Cookie ? 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Lutesque said: Indeed... Now where's my Cookie ? 😛 Usually under the browsers privacy settings section. 🍪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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