Conservation, Son Tokens, and ranking up

[IggySnow]

53 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

I've been trying that and have only found 1 Achivea, I think you're the outlier with the luck of the draw, unfortunately.

Achicea are definitely the most rare, so doing the tracking method might be necessary for them. But the 4 other animals are very easy to find randomly.

[eboomer]

1000% agreed.  I never have enjoyed conservation whatsoever and I've already spent several hours on this garbage and have yet to get a single one of the Rank 2 levelup requirement tags.  Also, there are SO MANY BUGS with conservation that it's really infuriating.

One of the Avichaea spots is bugged, with the animal tracks starting from the wrong place, and any conservation start point that is ostensibly in a cave is a complete nightmare to try to find (often these aren't actually INSIDE of caves, but they direct you through a cave tunnel to where the actual location is).  On top of that, all the endless hordes of infested and glA******s just make it all the more frustrating and ridiculous to pretend you're stealthfully stalking animals and trying to rescue them (you kill like 20 animals to rescue one...)

Combat in this update is REALLY fun.  However trying to force tens of hours of this conservation garbage down my throat is just demoralizing.  Please clean up this mess, and recognize that things NOT core to Warframe might be things that players might not enjoy whatsoever - please give us alternatives in these cases.

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

2 minutes ago, eboomer said:

1000% agreed.  I never have enjoyed conservation whatsoever and I've already spent several hours on this garbage and have yet to get a single one of the Rank 2 levelup requirement tags.  Also, there are SO MANY BUGS with conservation that it's really infuriating.

One of the Avichaea spots is bugged, with the animal tracks starting from the wrong place, and any conservation start point that is ostensibly in a cave is a complete nightmare to try to find (often these aren't actually INSIDE of caves, but they direct you through a cave tunnel to where the actual location is).  On top of that, all the endless hordes of infested and glA******s just make it all the more frustrating and ridiculous to pretend you're stealthfully stalking animals and trying to rescue them (you kill like 20 animals to rescue one...)

Combat in this update is REALLY fun.  However trying to force tens of hours of this conservation garbage down my throat is just demoralizing.  Please clean up this mess, and recognize that things NOT core to Warframe might be things that players might not enjoy whatsoever - please give us alternatives in these cases.

Yup. This really pulled the breaks on the hype train.

[WhiteyTighties]

If they just put Token's in Bounty's rewards then alot of people will be happy about that if they aren't going to change it .

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Babadook said:

If they just put Token's in Bounty's rewards then alot of people will be happy about that if they aren't going to change it .

THIS.  

Such an easy solution and let's ppl play the core game without all the toxicity.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Maybe it's a growing new narrative for DE to pigeon hole us into particular tasks now to slow fast progression to elongate game play. I don't much care for conservation either, but I'll only do the bare minimum needed until I get what I want, if that's the only way about it. 

[WhiteyTighties]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Absoluteboxer said:

THIS.  

Such an easy solution and let's ppl play the core game without all the toxicity.

i know right , a easy fix and everyone will be happy but until they do something with Son Token's people will rage 🙂 until they understand that Conservation is not content , it should be a mini thing you want to do on your own time not part of any content that gates you with that crap .

[Salt_KuHa]

15 hours ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Remember how  sawgaws ("bird") in fortuna conservation is so bad that everyone basically skips that particular one and go for the rest when nightwave throws you a conservation task? Well, yeah, it is back here on deimos again under the name of Avichaea... It also really doesn't help that the tracker on mini map isn't functioning properly (and so you can't really use it to find your targets as easily, especially avichaea which is already a massive pain)

Someone actually skips sawgaws? but why? They're like the best animal for standing until you reach the higher ranks. Also, you ever tried using the tranq rifle that HIGHLIGHTS the hunting targets through obstacles?

[Alpha_Tango]

It can really be a daunting task, but really all you need to do is hear Son's tips very closely and try to judge how the animals react or position themselves for a clear tranq shot. I don't wan't to spoil anybody else's fun but to those who doesn't know yet, your tranquilizer gun can be used while flying on your AW. Just keep a safe distance and tranq either while roaming or after a successful call.

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

3 minutes ago, Alpha_Tango said:

It can really be a daunting task, but really all you need to do is hear Son's tips very closely and try to judge how the animals react or position themselves for a clear tranq shot. I don't wan't to spoil anybody else's fun but to those who doesn't know yet, your tranquilizer gun can be used while flying on your AW. Just keep a safe distance and tranq either while roaming or after a successful call.

I don't know who has a problem tranquilizing the actual animal after finding them.  That's not the point of people's rage with this...

[Alpha_Tango]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Absoluteboxer said:

I don't know who has a problem tranquilizing the actual animal after finding them.  That's not the point of people's rage with this...

I did say to those who don't know. Enraged? Why? It is not new, the token system is a genius idea to give you space to plan ahead, stock up and continue playing beyond your daily limit. Conservation is easy enough to rank up with so i can't see why waste time whinging about it.

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

4 minutes ago, Alpha_Tango said:

I did say to those who don't know. Enraged? Why? It is not new, the token system is a genius idea to give you space to plan ahead, stock up and continue playing beyond your daily limit. Conservation is easy enough to rank up with so i can't see why waste time whinging about it.

I'm glad it's worked out for you. The rest of us are vexed and livid. It's been outlined by me and many other ppl in this thread and I don't have the bandwidth right now to go over it again, for that I apologise.

[Leyers_of_facade]

2 hours ago, HerpDerpy said:

Achicea are definitely the most rare, so doing the tracking method might be necessary for them. But the 4 other animals are very easy to find randomly.

and that is precisely the problem, Arvchaea farming is by far the WORST out of all the deimo ones, imo it rivals sawgaws tier of bad, at least with sawgaws, they are easy to spot, just a little annoying to hit (which isn't an issue with ivara navigator).

 

its bad enough that several of the common spawns of their track just casually goes through the ground / wall (this happens way too much), it doesn't help that enemy markers don't work on them (so you can't use mini map to speed things up), and to make it worse, they can vary from being very high up in the sky, resting right on top of a infested matter or even worse right underneath a large blob of infested matter, these birds very often doesn't get close to the calling point, and if you get the calling point inside a cave? good luck, because they can actually spawn outside the cave, making the hunt even worse than it have to be.

 

 

as for the rest? both the standard method as well as the hunting with archwing will be decent, standard method allows you to hunt precise targets a lot easier while flying with archwing allows for more hunts in general.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Absoluteboxer said:

Dude I been playing this game for years. So has my entire clan and crew. All in Mr 20+ who have also put in it dues with plat (that stuff which pays de)

Ok I'll restart. I love the lore. I love the visual asthetic. I like the new necramech. I love the vaults.   I like grinding the bounties (as we did with the two previous open worlds).  Being forcefed conservation has made all of us salty at. So your advice to the many of the ticked off ppl or this NEW unwarranted grind is to stop playing oppose to voicing our opinion.

I've been playing for years too. And since we both have you know full well that we've dealt with worse grind than this before. And yes my advice to new players(not yourself apparently) is to play something else if they don't enjoy grind, seeing as that's what the game is about and always has been.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

1 hour ago, Alpha_Tango said:

Conservation is easy enough to rank up with so i can't see why waste time whinging about it.

It's because some people really don't enjoy conservation as an activity. Some, like me, enjoy it, but only in small doses. Previously it was an optional thing that rewarded standing, so we could do it when the mood struck us without forcing us to do it to advance at all. Now it's necessary to advance.

 

This screws over people who hate conservation's mechanics, and it also screws over people who are okay with them but don't love them. It's a great annoyance.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 hours ago, Lichformed said:

We both have been playing this game for a long time and surely you do remember how updates were in the past? Multiple events back to back with story and replayablility with a lot of them sticking as game modes for new planets even to this day.

Deimos is a grind island where the grand price is a toy you get to use when you've done everything already to get to it. There's a lot of improvements to the grind formula like stashable standing with tokens, but I hope you can see how the grind is a lot more shallow than before.

If I wanted to play a grinding game just for the grind then cookie clicker would be the best game on the market.

Warframe is a grindy space ninja action game, where the open worlds really don't allow for taking advantage of said ninja playstyle that well, I find myself staying still a lot more in the open worlds than any of the starchart missions and the open worlds don't even have rewards outside weapons and frames that come out of it.

Second Dream/War Within had a completely new and upgradeable way to play to bring to all other missions.

Plains of Eidolon buffed them with AMPs and easy to aquire arcanes for other content. + custom melee weapons.

Fortuna gave us access to a weapon type from a dead gamemode into all other content (through a miserable grind though) and more custom weapons and companions

But Deimos is completely locked in a bubble of old, there are companions and weapons to be had, but the big new things are obsolete before you get to it. Helminth is a band-aid for a couple of frames and can't be used for anything actually unique, and to get a Necramech you need to do everything you would use one for before you get it.

So yes, for one I am happier for not going through such a useless and unfun grind that does not improve my experience outside the grind.

And I don't think either of us would be here if we didn't like the game, the difference is that the other wants the game to stay and succeed while you push away others happily even though it means the game will die because of it, you can't grind in a grinding game if the game goes offline, and a game loop this out of touch with the game will cause that in the long run.

Did you think they were going to reinvent the wheel? It was always going to be the same but what they've done is give an initial steeper wall to climb and then made it dead easy beyond that to farm standing. They did it because otherwise people will cry lack of content within a week, abandoning an update that took them ages to make so I can understand it. They also did it to lock Helminth away from new players which again I understand. 

It's ironic you mentioned operators seeing as the grind for that system maxed is far more time consuming than this will be. People who don't like Eidolons haven't maxed theit focus, it's your choice whether you do this or not. And I am also willing to bet this grand prize toy has a use in future released content too by the way so I doubt it'll be useless.

[RazerXPrime]

From reading most of the comments it seems as if people want to rank up standing the fastest way possible and since it's not as fast as they'd like they complain about it. I mean really? It's going to take you a few days longer? Oh God forbid something actually takes time. Man these people must have an annoying experience flying somewhere. I mean that S#&$ takes hours and there's litterally nothing you can do about it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

7 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Then don't play it. Imagine having to grind in a grinding game. Perhaps this isn't the kind of game for you and you'd be happier playing something else.

It’s a looter-shooter-Combat game with an innovative new combat system locked behind gated, non-combat gameplay that some people dislike so much that they are simply rejecting the content altogether.

Here’s another way to view it that obliterates your “grind” retort:

You find out that your nearest premium ice cream-yogurt shop has a new “mix’n’match” Flavor System and you’ve worked hard all week to save up to try all the choices...only to find out as you enter the store, excited for this new innovation, that you need to eat a BIG bowl of fried liver and onions topped with Okra for access AND you have to pay for it.

...AND nowhere was this condition advertised within the marketing.

But hey, it’s all FOOD, and it’s a “different flavor” so what did we expect?  Imagine asking for new flavors and the ice cream shop gives you a “new flavor” in the form of fried animal organs and snot-covered mixed vegetables? 

And we have the “audacity” to complain, right?

Wrong.  We came for ice cream and new innovative flavors of ice cream AS WAS MARKETED.  Because this is an ice cream shop.

And so, no matter HOW GOOD these new mixed flavors might be, not only will a large portion of the shop’s customers not ever try them, they feel purposely duped and are angry.

And that is not good for business.

This whole “let’s make them eat liver and onions and Okra so they don’t try all the ice cream flavors too quickly” line is patently ridiculous.

If we like the Ice Cream here, just keep giving us innovations...IN ICE CREAM.

[(PSN)CyberBikerLtd]

57 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Did you think they were going to reinvent the wheel? It was always going to be the same but what they've done is give an initial steeper wall to climb and then made it dead easy beyond that to farm standing. They did it because otherwise people will cry lack of content within a week, abandoning an update that took them ages to make so I can understand it. They also did it to lock Helminth away from new players which again I understand. 

It's ironic you mentioned operators seeing as the grind for that system maxed is far more time consuming than this will be. People who don't like Eidolons haven't maxed theit focus, it's your choice whether you do this or not. And I am also willing to bet this grand prize toy has a use in future released content too by the way so I doubt it'll be useless.

I maxed my focus just fine without Eidolons. I got my first big boy amp without ever touching an eidolon, and for arcades, I can trade for them if I still want to. Hell ever profit taker you only have to do 3-5 times depending on whether you have a booster or not. So not the same.

I’ll do the tokens because I have to, but I won’t enjoy it. Moments like this force me to take breaks so that I don’t come to hate the game. It’s unfortunate because other than the son tokens, everything else is amazing.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)CyberBikerLtd said:

I maxed my focus just fine without Eidolons. I got my first big boy amp without ever touching an eidolon, and for arcades, I can trade for them if I still want to. Hell ever profit taker you only have to do 3-5 times depending on whether you have a booster or not. So not the same.

I’ll do the tokens because I have to, but I won’t enjoy it. Moments like this force me to take breaks so that I don’t come to hate the game. It’s unfortunate because other than the son tokens, everything else is amazing.

But I'll bet it took you a while ie it wasn't instant. I've just been taking a stroll through the world in between bounties and getting my animals that way. And I have a huge stockpile of about 1000 mother tokens without any effort needed for maxing my standing for days. It's not that bad, the only thing they will probably fix is the scintillant drop rate being a bit harsh.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

It’s a looter-shooter-Combat game with an innovative new combat system locked behind gated, non-combat gameplay that some people dislike so much that they are simply rejecting the content altogether.

Here’s another way to view it that obliterates your “grind” retort:

You find out that your nearest premium ice cream-yogurt shop has a new “mix’n’match” Flavor System and you’ve worked hard all week to save up to try all the choices...only to find out as you enter the store, excited for this new innovation, that you need to eat a BIG bowl of fried liver and onions topped with Okra for access AND you have to pay for it.

...AND nowhere was this condition advertised within the marketing.

But hey, it’s all FOOD, and it’s a “different flavor” so what did we expect?  Imagine asking for new flavors and the ice cream shop gives you a “new flavor” in the form of fried animal organs and snot-covered mixed vegetables? 

And we have the “audacity” to complain, right?

Wrong.  We came for ice cream and new innovative flavors of ice cream AS WAS MARKETED.  Because this is an ice cream shop.

And so, no matter HOW GOOD these new mixed flavors might be, not only will a large portion of the shop’s customers not ever try them, they feel purposely duped and are angry.

And that is not good for business.

This whole “let’s make them eat liver and onions and Okra so they don’t try all the ice cream flavors too quickly” line is patently ridiculous.

If we like the Ice Cream here, just keep giving us innovations...IN ICE CREAM.

So it's better to max everything with little effort so within a week people are complaining there's no content right? Cos that's what happened with Fortuna. Which is why I can understand this approach.

[(PSN)CyberBikerLtd]

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

But I'll bet it took you a while ie it wasn't instant. I've just been taking a stroll through the world in between bounties and getting my animals that way. And I have a huge stockpile of about 1000 mother tokens without any effort needed for maxing my standing for days. It's not that bad, the only thing they will probably fix is the scintillant drop rate being a bit harsh.

It took about a month of an hour a night of ESO to unlock all my 1M nodes. 1 hour maxes your daily. I did that and farmed the 2 vandal weapons at the same time.

Steel path survivals  also can max daily focus in about an hour

but I got to choose how I accomplished that which is the point.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

So it's better to max everything with little effort so within a week people are complaining there's no content right? Cos that's what happened with Fortuna.

The timesink is not the issue.  I’ve played this game for half a decade...daily.  If I enjoy doing it, or at least tolerate it, I’ll go for, well, half-a-decade?

I even understand the resource loop timesink inflation that each system stacks on the previous by adding layers of grind to the previous system through additional requirements.

PoE <Fortuna< HoD = grind<grind+x<grind+x+y

With fishing and mining, we are at least hunting materials to directly build weapons and gear.

And with Fortuna, I’m ok with non-combat fringe gameplay (Snowboarding And Conservation) rewarding someone else with Mastery Rank standing for a timesink that I’ll forgo.

But taking fringe, non-combat gameplay and forcing it upon us like this?  I have to respectfully but vocally criticize it.

[RGZephyrus]

so does any of you have ever find an avichaea ?

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

The timesink is not the issue.  I’ve played this game for half a decade...daily.  If I enjoy doing it, or at least tolerate it, I’ll go for, well, half-a-decade?

I even understand the resource loop timesink inflation that each system stacks on the previous by adding layers of grind to the previous system through additional requirements.

PoE <Fortuna< HoD = grind<grind+x<grind+x+y

With fishing and mining, we are at least hunting materials to directly build weapons and gear.

And with Fortuna, I’m ok with non-combat fringe gameplay (Snowboarding And Conservation) rewarding someone else with Mastery Rank standing for a timesink that I’ll forgo.

But taking fringe, non-combat gameplay and forcing it upon us like this?  I have to respectfully but vocally criticize it.

Fair enough I can respect your opinion I just honestly don't mind slowing down after each bounty and catching some animals, it's a very pretty landscape. I'm not doing lures or anything just whatever I stumble across when I'm not farming vaults.