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Remove mandatory conservation ASAP.


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18 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Which is why you Cetus and Fortuna give you a choice. You can fish and turn your catch in for standing. Or you can mine and turn your gems in for standing. Or you can do conservation and earn standing. Or you can do bounties and earn standing. That's an "OR" gate between those, you'll note. On Deimos, you need to fish AND mine AND do conservation AND do bounties AND also collect random container crap as well. You don't get to pick a few activities you like - you need ALL of them, because progression is gated behind all of them.

I guess this is where you and I differ. I don't care about having a "choice" in this regard. If this is what the devs intended as gameplay, then I'm not going to moan and whine about a new gameplay mechanic that's intended. 

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19 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

How does it punish conservation fans to add alternatives for other players? What do you personally gain from other players slogging through minigames they hate?

By removing a game mechanic that some players like; that's how it would punish them. In case you haven't been paying attention, some people are calling for it to be removed entirely. 

Everyone has to do minigames that they hate in this game. EVERY ONE at least at some point ends up having to do a game mechanic they hate in order to progress, so that "argument" doesn't work on me. 

19 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

You mean like hundreds of posts telling DE that they hate conservation and aren't playing WF until we get better options?

Whining isn't a valid reason. What about the hundreds of us that are playing? See, I can play that dumb game too.

19 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Nobody seriously wants to prevent you from progressing in Deimos via conservation. I fully support minigames as an option, but never a hard requirement.

Plenty of others disagree with you, since some want it removed entirely. I still support Conservation as a required game mechanic to progress. 

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1 minute ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

But it doesn't have to be this way! My gaming time is worth more than that. I'm sorry yours isn't.

My gaming time is worth plenty. I'm just an adult that realizes that not everything is going to go my way and sometimes developers have different idea's for their games than me. 

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1 minute ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

My gaming time is worth plenty. I'm just an adult that realizes that not everything is going to go my way and sometimes developers have different idea's for their games than me.

Right, suck it up and do tasks you hate, because that's what it means to be an "adult" in your mind? No thanks, I'll take my time and money to a game developer who doesn't insult me. That may sound like a victory for you, but I doubt it was DE's goal to drive away longtime dedicated players so to preserve the sanctity of MMO minigames.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I'm sure they threw this in here, because they figured it would slow down most people in getting standing

Fortuna conservation was popular because it was an efficient rep grind. DE perhaps expected that would translate to conservation standing on its own as main content.

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2 hours ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

I guess this is where you and I differ. I don't care about having a "choice" in this regard. If this is what the devs intended as gameplay, then I'm not going to moan and whine about a new gameplay mechanic that's intended. 

But you will call dismissively call it "moaning and whining" while entirely ignoring the arguments presented with "I don't care." I mean, if you don't care then fair enough, but it would be nice if you'd stop inserting yourself in conversations you clearly don't care about solely to inform us that you don't care about it and we shouldn't either, else we're just whining. This mix of humble bragging and condescending dismissal is entirely unconstructive.

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40 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

But you will call dismissively call it "moaning and whining" while entirely ignoring the arguments presented with "I don't care."

I've already addressed all the arguments, multiple times. There's also been plenty moaning and whining with no arguments, and some people don't know the difference between offering constructive criticism, and just plain complaining without offering anything at all (which I've seen plenty of on this forum).

I clearly care, or I wouldn't be taking part in this conversation at all. And I'll keep taking part in it.

If you don't like what I have to say then stop responding to me.

 

Edited by KrazyKavatLady
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2 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Right, suck it up and do tasks you hate, because that's what it means to be an "adult" in your mind?

No, thanks for twisting my words though to fit your narrative. Also, didn't bother reading the rest of your response because I didn't see the point. I'm going to stop responding to you now, since you're not interested in having an actual debate. Bye bye!

Edited by KrazyKavatLady
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I can't tell you how much I HATE conservation.  I didn't like it in the Vallis, I don't like it now.  It's not a matter of "just try it, you might like it."  I've done it.  Hours of it.  I still hate it.  I don't want to do conservation.  I'd rather run vaults than mine or fish but they're at least not infuriating to me, just boring.  The actual "proper" way to do conservation actively irritates me the entire time I'm doing it.  Every single stage of a hunt is annoying.  Every time I lose the trail due to the terrain it's annoying.  The entirety of the menus of selecting echo lures and pheromones and literally every single thing about it is annoying and it's amplified by the fact that I don't want to be doing it in the first #*!%ing place.

It's somehow worse on the Drift than the Vallis.  The constant spawn of infested is a dozen times worse than Grineer or Corpus.  The range the infested have is at least as bad or worse than the other factions and they're supposed to be the melee faction.  Those stupid flying squid things that latch onto you and just constantly #*!%ing spawn while you're trying to figure out where the stupid #*!%ing conservation target is?  Congrats, DE.  You brought back Cliff Racers.  One of the most annoying enemies in gaming history. 

Doing it the "easy" way and just flying around with the tranq rifle out doesn't work for me either.  I barely get anything to spawn.  When it does spawn, it takes an infuriating amount of time slowly moving in a circle, praying the infested will leave me alone so I can figure out where the damn target is.  Then I find it, cap it and it's always the same animals.  I can't get anything but predasites and burrowers.  This method is just as stupid and maddening as the intended way.

"You just need to take a break from the game."  I was having fun in vaults and actually enjoying this set of bounties.  If I want to progress with the things I'm actually enjoying and get to the things I actually was looking forward to with this update I have to do this atrocious, awful thing that I despise just to progress.

I don't want them to reduce the grind for Son tokens, or increase standing gain, or change the economy with it.  I want it completely stripped out of the progression entirely.  Not fixed.  GONE.  It wasn't mandatory in the other open worlds and it shouldn't be here either.
 

Edited by (XB1)TehChubbyDugan
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The turn ins for Son's tags really ought to be animal sub-type agnostic.

Further, I'm surprised we don't have some sort of hatchery raid bounty as an option to get animals through means other than direct conservation on Deimos, given the nature of the Infestation and the Drift. Maybe the exact animals aren't gained right away (say it's a 24 hr hatch or something), but you get a *lot* of them at once.

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Of course this is a grindy game but this conservation stuff is kinda sad actually. So many things they could focus on, at this point I think they just throw cool things (I still do think they made good things in this update) along with half-worked stuff just to make it seem that has a lot of content and call it a day.

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3 hours ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

I've already addressed all the arguments, multiple times. There's also been plenty moaning and whining with no arguments, and some people don't know the difference between offering constructive criticism, and just plain complaining without offering anything at all (which I've seen plenty of on this forum).

Then quote where you've addressed it, because I've not seen you even attempt to do so. All I've seen you do is assert that being forced to participate in activities I don't like is good and having alternative levelling paths which allow me to skip said activities while still making progress is bad. I've yet to hear WHY that is, though. Other than a very condescending "developers know what's good for me better than me, so I have to be forced into doing content I don't like for my own good," there's no argument to be had. What was wrong with progression in Fortuna, for example? Those who disliked Conservation could still progress almost entirely on Bounties. Others - like myself - progressed almost entirely on Conservation because it was both a fun activity and one that was fairly lucrative once I got Echo Lures for decent animals.

Why is that not seen as a win/win? I liked Conservation, I did Conservation. Others didn't like Conservation, so they didn't do Conservation. Everybody wins, as far as I'm concerned. Unless you somehow define the quality of game design by what it makes ME do where you can't see it, I quite literally don't understand how any of that is a bad thing.

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The Ernesto Syndicate is all about helping these broken people and broken family, so NO to getting rid of Son tokens for rank ups.

But please, pick different tags besides the Avis for rank 3. Or at least fewer.

[DE] please, you KNOW your flying conservation tends to be glitchy. You KNOW they can be hard to see.

So don't do it!

Maybe have us hand over our weakened animals instead, so the mother can start to replace what the father stole from the son.

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4 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Then quote where you've addressed it, because I've not seen you even attempt to do so. All I've seen you do is assert that being forced to participate in activities I don't like is good and having alternative levelling paths which allow me to skip said activities while still making progress is bad. I've yet to hear WHY that is, though. Other than a very condescending "developers know what's good for me better than me, so I have to be forced into doing content I don't like for my own good," there's no argument to be had. What was wrong with progression in Fortuna, for example? Those who disliked Conservation could still progress almost entirely on Bounties. Others - like myself - progressed almost entirely on Conservation because it was both a fun activity and one that was fairly lucrative once I got Echo Lures for decent animals.

Why is that not seen as a win/win? I liked Conservation, I did Conservation. Others didn't like Conservation, so they didn't do Conservation. Everybody wins, as far as I'm concerned. Unless you somehow define the quality of game design by what it makes ME do where you can't see it, I quite literally don't understand how any of that is a bad thing.

Because the [DE]fense force is a real thing and they will always side with the devs.  I've watched some of them literally argue over the capitalization of a word to try and prove that the devs were right, only for the devs to come and say they were wrong, and they just kept on with the blind defense.  There is literally nothing you can do to convince this person that there is anything wrong with the game, to include the devs admitting there is something wrong with the game.

The tone deaf implementation of mandatory conservation with no work around, the completely insufficient response to community complaints about it, the shills in the community being out in force to condescend to the players that don't like mandatory half-ass mini-games, the nerfs to things (including ones they stealth nerfed and won't address.) and the slew of game-breaking bugs that have cost me a lot of grind progression out on the Drift have got me sitting in my orbiter while posting on the forums instead of playing.

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On 2020-08-26 at 12:48 PM, KIREEK said:
  1. DE Implements neet thing
  2. DE realizes few are doing what they implemented, new rewards are released as motivation
  3. DE realizes that's not enough and rewards are only temporary, so they send the mechanic to nightwave
  4. DE realizes you only use said mechanic during nightwave, so they implement it into the core game.

This seems to be the patern on some things, they collected the data from fortuna and now changed things up to force us to do it.

It's busy work that isn't all that rewarding.

Is not this literally sunk fallacy? Just cuz you invested time in something, does not mean it has value. 

I do not know why DE is not understanding that majority of players do not want to do none combat activities, specifically conservation. Either remove these things completely, or make them optional.

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The conservation would be nowhere as bad if you weren't hunting the damned Avichaeas and that you need to hunt FIVE of them. They can spawn inside terrain. They are a tiny, glowing orange blob against of sea of orange terrain. When they die the can fall into terrain. They rarely "approach" the echo spot. Bad, bad, bad, bad.

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Ouch guys.... I love Warframe. I don't mind hunting and gathering as this is the nature of the game. I've enjoyed every aspect of it until now. Heart of Deimos ORANGE AND RED pallet. I can't see anything very well. It's insane and takes the joy out of the play. I've lost bounties because of this. It's very disappointing. 

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All of the family members aside from mother require open world activities to progress, I guess I'm in the minority but it didn't bug me having to do them. I enjoyed having to do a little bit of everything open worlds offer to progress, instead of just slogging though the same bounties for rep or farming fish with a booster.

That being said the balance of costs versus rewards, the massive amount of bugs, etc need to be addressed.

Edited by xcrimsonlegendx
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Please, just implement a way to get the required hunting trophys with plat (as with minerals for example), so player who hate this type of activity can pay you so they can progress. - myself included -

Developer get cash/plat sink, players can progress if they choose to, everyone happy.

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1 hour ago, Karesz6 said:

Please, just implement a way to get the required hunting trophys with plat (as with minerals for example), so player who hate this type of activity can pay you so they can progress. - myself included -

Developer get cash/plat sink, players can progress if they choose to, everyone happy.

They did, have a look at "Todays special" at Son. I got the 5 bird tags from there yesterday and ranked up today. (Others came from casual strolling / hunting).

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I guess while we're at it, just remove rank up costs entirely, amirite?

Ya know, I was being sarcastic, but I realize now some of you probably want that.

On 2020-08-27 at 7:50 PM, (PS4)NemitheNem said:

The Ernesto Syndicate is all about helping these broken people and broken family, so NO to getting rid of Son tokens for rank ups.

But please, pick different tags besides the Avis for rank 3. Or at least fewer.

[DE] please, you KNOW your flying conservation tends to be glitchy. You KNOW they can be hard to see.

So don't do it!

Maybe have us hand over our weakened animals instead, so the mother can start to replace what the father stole from the son.

  That's the crux of it for me, and where I'll agree. I dunno why they chose the flying capture for the rank up. I also dunno why they ask for a Son Token at the same time, when those Son Tokens are bought with tags.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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Remove mandatory Eidolon kills/captures for arcanes as well.

Or perhaps make the items required from conservation trade-able so those who enjoy it can trade them for arcanes through the market.

 Otherwise I just see this as a hypocrytical argument of "It is fine to force others through content they don't enjoy to progress but it is outright wrong when it happens to me."

 

Edited by Aesthier
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5 hours ago, AltheusVI said:

They did, have a look at "Todays special" at Son. I got the 5 bird tags from there yesterday and ranked up today. (Others came from casual strolling / hunting).

Thank you, I looked it up twice and did not found any of the required items. Today tried again, and was able to buy one of them, now have to wait till the anotherone arrives.

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