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I Don’t Understand the Token Hate


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2 minutes ago, icybirdy44 said:

There is another option, though it's currently got a bug. If you can get ahold of a weakened Vulpaphylas or Predasite (both of which can be attained free-roam), you can create companions. Level them and sell them back to the Son for Tokens. The bug is that the Fass residue is a component for building antigens and mutagens, but the crafting menu in the orbiter always views residue as 0, regardless of how many you have. Hopefully DE will fix that soon.

Bzztt Wont help that much as you still need bird tags that are near impossible to get to hit level 3 standing.

 

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25 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

99% this, because conservation was never implemented right.

What would be the right way to implement it? And I'm not referring to ways to bypass it or ignore it. I mean the right way to implement it while requiring for you to engage with it.

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3 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

What would be the right way to implement it? And I'm not referring to ways to bypass it or ignore it. I mean the right way to implement it while requiring for you to engage with it.

Im not sure its possible...

If you require someone to engage in a system that they dont want to, you are always going to have friction. I am thinking the only way to fix it is put a highway bypass like a token exchange.

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14 minutes ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

You got something against MMO minigames? That seems to be the only talking point you have.

Correct, I hate MMO minigames, and will be posting on the forums and playing other games until I can progress through Deimos via other methods, such as core WF combat. It's totally cool that people who enjoy MMO minigames can use that to progress, I do not want to take that away, I am only asking for alternatives, be it adding tags to the Vault drop tables, exchanging different types of tokens, paying Steel Essences or Mutagen Samples or some other premium in-game resource, or even credits or plat.

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1 minute ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

The right way to do conservation is to play Pokemon Sword/Shield instead of Warframe.

Let me take a guess: You are also against the existence of the Operator as well because Warframe should be nothing beyond using the Warframes to kill things. Am I correct?

5 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

Im not sure its possible...

If you require someone to engage in a system that they dont want to, you are always going to have friction. I am thinking the only way to fix it is put a highway bypass like a token exchange.

I understand that. But where do you draw the line? 

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It was just confusing initially. But now it's amazing. 

You're still gonna get people that need time to understand it. 

I did one bounty and got 8k standing.

The conservation is just walking up to an animal and hitting context action so they made that easier too. 

What the problem is, is (some) old vets that are burnt out, plus the casuals that were probably never really gonna put any effort into the system no matter what it was anyway. 

They needed one excuse to say "ok I'm going to destiny", which means they were gonna leave anyway. 

Typical MMO casual behavior. Nothing new.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It was just confusing initially. But now it's amazing. 

You're still gonna get people that need time to understand it. 

I did one bounty and got 8k standing.

The conservation is just walking up to an animal and hitting context action so they made that easier too. 

What the problem is, is (some) old vets that are burnt out, plus the casuals that were probably never really gonna put any effort into the system no matter what it was anyway. 

They needed one excuse to say "ok I'm going to destiny", which means they were gonna leave anyway. 

Typical MMO casual behavior. Nothing new.

The conservation system must be working way way different on ps4, because on pc, its not working at all like that.

 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

They needed one excuse to say "ok I'm going to destiny", which means they were gonna leave anyway.

Funny you mentioned this, because apparently there was some sort of exchange program. Destiny 2 players are announcing they're coming to Warframe and vice versa.

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22 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

From what I understand you need to do some conservation stuff for son tokens and fishing for the daughter ? If that is the case then it is a huge chore. I get that they want you to do those fun little games from time to time but mandating them would be a bad idea. Personally I stay away from those activities, once I gather the bare minimum required to craft something or level up the standing. 

I've collected tokens from Daughter, Father, and Loid just from the loot that drops in bounties. 

Son tokens are reported to be randomly spawned in certain areas, like the toroids in OV. If that's true, tags might be the only thing that we can't directly find doing bounties and wandering around the open world. 

Granted doing any of the activities will probably be faster, but the people who are whining the most, seem to have just flat out refused to just play the game. If they ran the bounties and bothered to interact with the family, they probably wouldn't have been making all that fuss yesterday. 

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Just now, Kconvey said:

The conservation system must be working way way different on ps4, because on pc, its not working at all like that.

 

Well you have to tap them a couple times to kill them, but then you just "capture" them.

The area is smaller so you basically just walk around and they're easier to find.

Then if you wanna do the actual perfect capture you probably just use ivara and invis up to em.

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36 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

There are obviously some kinks to work out, particularly with the son tokens, but overall this is going be so much better than previous standing systems once those kinks are worked out.

You can just stockpile tokens for the next day, so for the first time you can actually farm past your standing limit. So I just don’t understand the hate.

EDIT: Couple people have pointed out that some of the annoyance comes from being forced into things like conservation. I agree with this and I do think they should implement multiple ways to get certain tokens, or just condense it to one or two types of tokens that can be obtained multiple ways. Overall though, token system good.

 

I'm sure this has already been stated but here's probably why.

1. It's different. The other open worlds don't have this system in place other than Ticker over in Fortuna (The person that deals with life debts). There are people out there who immediately hate change, no matter how beneficial that change can actually be to them if they were to look into it.

2. At first glance, it can be confusing, and you have to remember: Most people on these forums are all about kneejerk reactions to everything. They don't take the time and effort to actually look into what they're crying about 90% of the time. So they see all these tokens and these resources and think "This is too complicated!" when in reality it's actually more streamlined than they realize and beneficial to the player since, as you said, we can stockpile these tokens and cash them in whenever we want (And for those more diligent, trade the easier to farm family tokens like Mother, Father, Otak, etc for Grandmother tokens when available for even higher net gains).

3. For a game all about having different ways to farm stuff, its playerbase absolutely loves instant gratification (while at the same time crying about lack of content when they get instantly gratified. Go figure.) So every single time something new pops up that needs to be farmed, you can bet money people will whine about it here. Newer players will whine that they can't get it immediately. Older players with stockpiles of resources will whine they have no content. Then with updates like this one, the older players will join the newer players and whine that they have to grind for the new stuff. I've seen it time and time and time again. This playerbase is a damn circus.

 

If you haven't guessed by now, I personally love the system. I can do some hardcore farming one day and chill out the next. Focus on fishing or wildlife preservation or mining or vault runs without worrying about not capping my standing. Any and all resources will always be viable here, because they all can be used to turn in for tokens. Yes, there are timers, however you can just use that time to farm up more resources or do bounties that directly reward Mother tokens instead which, again, can be stockpiled and turned in whenever you want. While not everything is 10000% perfect, I am truly enjoying this system.

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10 minutes ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

Funny you mentioned this, because apparently there was some sort of exchange program. Destiny 2 players are announcing they're coming to Warframe and vice versa.

Yea it's like every game has it's own problems. 

I played halo, I'm over bungie products. Never touched destiny. The gameplay was enough for me to say no personally.

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55 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Is simple: people want everything handed down to them in a silver plate, some ppl are incapable of working for their stuff and too impatient to stockpile tokens.

Boi I bet some of them never played the old syndicate system.

Some people could also be at the mercy of glitchey and S#&$ty mess that frequently occurs in game, I only had to come across 4 unkillable Necramechs when doing the isolation vault bounties to get painfully tilted to the point of being enraged at needing 6 captures of a stupid bug that I've only seen 4 of in literally 8 hours of playing the new update.

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22 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

What would be the right way to implement it? And I'm not referring to ways to bypass it or ignore it. I mean the right way to implement it while requiring for you to engage with it.

Not be forced to play a hiding game/bring a special frame if you don't want to(you can kill it with anything but it gives half the stuff for example) - make more animals, not an occasional 1-2 or 0(in the case of fortuna if you don't follow the tracks).Make them have gathering spots.
You can still get the double(or triple) bonus for playing the slow hiding and perfect capture game if you are into this stuff, but for those who don't animals can be just killed and picked up for the resources or standing if you want to.
Make it so your cat/dog can catch one.
I do every nightwave challenge out of boredom, but I always skip those after the first couple of times...

tl;dr make it more engaging and with a lot of choice.

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I'd  love it if they'd tone down the amount of enemies when you have your tranq rifle out tbh... So many near captures ruined by the things I'm hunting getting instakilled by something halfway across the map. Or those stupid floating face hugger things.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

EDIT: Couple people have pointed out that some of the annoyance comes from being forced into things like conservation. I agree with this and I do think they should implement multiple ways to get certain tokens, or just condense it to one or two types of tokens that can be obtained multiple ways. Overall though, token system good.

 

Either I missed the OP's edit, or they edited it while I was posting earlier. But I'll address it real quick:

Personally I have nothing against the conservation system. It's a nice change of pace and if people would take a moment to calm their murder spree they might find it to be rather gratifying. But I understand not everyone has the same thought process. I do believe Son Tokens should be looked into, but I don't believe there should be a faster way to get them than actually doing the thing he asks you to do - which is wildlife conservation. I also believe the amount of tags needed for his tokens might be a little high. There are a hefty amount of critters out there and since you have to focus on just one during your hunt as opposed to getting multiple resources far faster for other family tokens....yeah, I can see the grind being a bit much in that respect. I think a reduction of tags needed, or binding tags to certain animal types for turn in would make things better. Just my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Yea it's like every game has it's own problems. 

I played halo, I'm over bungie products. Never touched destiny. The gameplay was enough for me to say no personally.

I played a ton of Halo 2 and 3 and I think Destiny is a much better product, but honestly it feels sluggish after playing Warframe. That’s not necessarily Destiny’s fault though, a lot of games feel sluggish after getting accustomed to WF’s movement. Gunplay in Destiny is A+ though, I will give them that.

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34 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

What would be the right way to implement it? And I'm not referring to ways to bypass it or ignore it. I mean the right way to implement it while requiring for you to engage with it.

Mining, Fishing, Bounties, Conservation, Bonds. In previous open worlds these were all options to increase rep standing. I don't get what de thought was wrong with this system, player choice in regards to how you ranked up was one of the things POE and Fortuna got praised for.

I don't think making activities that were meant to be side activities mandatory is ever the right answer.

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1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

I do believe Son Tokens should be looked into, but I don't believe there should be a faster way to get them than actually doing the thing he asks you to do - which is wildlife conservation.

There apparently is. Tokens show up out in the open world. So..... Their salty salt is, salty. 

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So far impression of the token sysyem is good, i likenthe fact that there's something to dump all these extra resources in, while cetus and fortuna i have this frightening stockpile of resources that i can't do anything with. And with exchanging them for grandma tokens you get massively more rep than the other. 

I thinknthwy system is more rewarding for actual doing activities than the other open worlds

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1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

 

Either I missed the OP's edit, or they edited it while I was posting earlier. But I'll address it real quick:

Personally I have nothing against the conservation system. It's a nice change of pace and if people would take a moment to calm their murder spree they might find it to be rather gratifying. But I understand not everyone has the same thought process. I do believe Son Tokens should be looked into, but I don't believe there should be a faster way to get them than actually doing the thing he asks you to do - which is wildlife conservation. I also believe the amount of tags needed for his tokens might be a little high. There are a hefty amount of critters out there and since you have to focus on just one during your hunt as opposed to getting multiple resources far faster for other family tokens....yeah, I can see the grind being a bit much in that respect. I think a reduction of tags needed, or binding tags to certain animal types for turn in would make things better. Just my opinion.

Personally I don’t enjoy conservation, but I also don’t mind that the game forces me to engage with something that they spent time developing. I’ve played very few games where I enjoyed 100% of everything I did while playing it. Sometimes you have to get past a roadblock to get back to the things you enjoy, that’s just video games IMO.

The freak outs about it on these forums are hilarious though.

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28 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Let me take a guess: You are also against the existence of the Operator as well because Warframe should be nothing beyond using the Warframes to kill things. Am I correct?

I love the flavor and lore of operators, where many hated it. Amps and "operator combat" are a dumpster fire of parasitic mechanics, but the utility of things like Void Dash is nice. The Necramechs could be really cool if they buff their parkour capabilities, the one they had us use in the quest was clumsier than a Grendel meatball wearing a Hobbled Key. I don't mind that MMO minigames or Railjack or Conclave are a part of WF, so long as there are multiple avenues for progression befitting a diverse player base with diverse tastes.

Edited by Xylena_Lazarow
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