I Don’t Understand the Token Hate

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

Can someone please explain to me whats going on?, I'm hearing all this feedback on how hard it is to get "Tokens" and the "Hunting" thing, but I am unsure if people just can't grasp out the Tranq-n-Quill works or this system is different to PoE/Orb Val.

TL;DR - People love to murder-hobo, and do not like not murder-hoboing for rewards.

[NanoVega]

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

I already mentioned in my earlier post that the amount of tags needed for son tokens should be reduced due to the time and effort needed to obtain them. As for everything else, the only option I would partially agree with is rare bounty rewards for some of these tags. There can not be a way to 100% circumvent the system without it being a longer, more randomized grind. Because if you circumvent it with an easier grind, you alienate the players that enjoy the conservation system while also making said system redundant. Seeing as conservation is the direct antithesis to murdering everything in sight, it stands to reason not using the system in place would mean less frequent rewards from said system.

I get what you mean but honestly I never noticed any players who loved conservation being alienated from the stuff in fortuna, where it wasn't mandatory, and in fact, I'm seeing way more players looking back on that way fondly. This is, however, a personal account. If you'd feel as bad being alienated for liking to throw away all your previous progress, weaponry, and abilities, and instead utilize a gun that can fire 3 shots and a warframe that is only useful for putting enemies to sleep... I guess that's your prerogative...

[Vyra]

1 minute ago, NanoVega said:

There's feeling and then there's demonstrate-able facts. Your attempt to somewhat degrade the truths I'm spitting by implying they are only my subjective opinion isn't appreciated.

People are different.

I just try to understand your experience...since i got no problem, i try to figure out why its a prblem to you...

[NanoVega]

3 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Can someone please explain to me whats going on?, I'm hearing all this feedback on how hard it is to get "Tokens" and the "Hunting" thing, but I am unsure if people just can't grasp out the Tranq-n-Quill works or this system is different to PoE/Orb Val.

Basically, son Requires an inordinate amount of tokens compared to the time consuming nature of gaining said items for the tokens and the annoyance complicit with the action of hunting. 

A lot of players worked for a long time to get the items they love, and play the warframes they love. And to work the game in a way they see fit. Only to be hit with a specific task which is now mandatory. Which forces you to either suffer, or throw away all your guns in favor of a semi-automatic, projectile based Tranqing weapon, which has no editability of capacity for personal choice. Alternatively, you can also use Equinox with a build that makes her other abilities worthless, or ivara, with 1 build that makes her other abilities worthless. This task has been made mandatory. That's the issue people are having.

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, NanoVega said:

I get what you mean but honestly I never noticed any players who loved conservation being alienated from the stuff in fortuna, where it wasn't mandatory, and in fact, I'm seeing way more players looking back on that way fondly. This is, however, a personal account. If you'd feel as bad being alienated for liking to throw away all your previous progress, weaponry, and abilities, and instead utilize a gun that can fire 3 shots and a warframe that is only useful for putting enemies to sleep... I guess that's your prerogative...

Why yes, I don't mind enjoying a moment of peace in this chaotic game. Yes, I don't mind taking a moment out of swimming through the blood of my enemies to save a few innocent animals. Yes, I don't mind not using my insanely overpowered equipment for a second and instead use a tiny bit of skill and thought in getting my rewards. If you don't like that, then I guess that's your prerogative as well.

Now, you're beginning to sound almost insultingly dismissive, so I'm going to stop this before it starts and say you're perfectly fine with your opinion just as I'm perfectly fine with mine.

[NanoVega]

3 minutes ago, Vyra said:

People are different.

I just try to understand your experience...since i got no problem, i try to figure out why its a prblem to you...

Ok yes. There's Subjective Opinions. Right? Which is how I feel. And I feel, like having to throw away all my weapons and gear and mandatorily do a mini game I hate, in order to progress to get to the things I actually want in this update. still with me? Is Stupid. 

But factually speaking. The Hunting system, especially on Deimos. Is a bloated, buggy mess.

 

Back to subjective, it seems like the only people who have managed to go far with it, are the kind who love it unconditionally. And they're only not complaining that its mandatory because they don't have to do the stuff they want to do to get to the part of the game that is fun for them. They don't want to see it trivialized, versus other people who would love to see it removed entirely.

[NanoVega]

Just now, SoulEchelon said:

Why yes, I don't mind enjoying a moment of peace in this chaotic game. Yes, I don't mind taking a moment out of swimming through the blood of my enemies to save a few innocent animals. Yes, I don't mind not using my insanely overpowered equipment for a second and instead use a tiny bit of skill and thought in getting my rewards. If you don't like that, then I guess that's your prerogative as well.

Now, you're beginning to sound almost insultingly dismissive, so I'm going to stop this before it starts and say you're perfectly fine with your opinion just as I'm perfectly fine with mine.

There's nothing skillful about hunting. You sit around and wait, or get lucky enough that the things you want cross your path. Once that happens. You either shoot them with a crappy gun, or you press 2 in their general direction if you're playing sleepquinox. Or you hold 1 if you're playing Sleepvara. There's no further input from the player. Sorry you seem to think this hunting thing is skillful... 

Also, I love moments of peace. Some of my favorite parts of Fortuna were chilling somewhere in the mountains, watching the snow fall and tugging up a toaster out of a coolant pond now and then. So, also sorry, but you don't get to hold up the "I like tranquility so I'm a more mature/better/well-rounded person than you" card.

[SoulEchelon]

1 minute ago, NanoVega said:

There's nothing skillful about hunting. You sit around and wait, or get lucky enough that the things you want cross your path. Once that happens. You either shoot them with a crappy gun, or you press 2 in their general direction if you're playing sleepquinox. Or you hold 1 if you're playing Sleepvara. There's no further input from the player. Sorry you seem to think this hunting thing is skillful... 

Also, I love moments of peace. Some of my favorite parts of Fortuna were chilling somewhere in the mountains, watching the snow fall and tugging up a toaster out of a coolant pond now and then. So, also sorry, but you don't get to hold up the "I like tranquility so I'm a more mature/better/well-rounded person than you" card.

"Nothing skillful about hunting" Of course there isn't when you blatantly admit you circumvent the system to just press the obligatory 4 to win. And nowhere in any of my posts did I say anything about maturity. The fact that you're trying to bring it up as "a card" reflects more upon you than it does me.

You've turned a perfectly fine opinionated conversation into a random war of childish insults. This conversation is done. Stay mad.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

Basically, son Requires an inordinate amount of tokens compared to the time consuming nature of gaining said items for the tokens and the annoyance complicit with the action of hunting. 

A lot of players worked for a long time to get the items they love, and play the warframes they love. And to work the game in a way they see fit. Only to be hit with a specific task which is now mandatory. Which forces you to either suffer, or throw away all your guns in favor of a semi-automatic, projectile based Tranqing weapon, which has no editability of capacity for personal choice. Alternatively, you can also use Equinox with a build that makes her other abilities worthless, or ivara, with 1 build that makes her other abilities worthless. This task has been made mandatory. That's the issue people are having.

You have to "throw away all your guns" to mine and fish as well. 

You're actually not throwing anything away. You're using hyperbole.

Crafting and side games are a part of almost every MMO or online game. 

The system is already in place, which is why we're providing feedback to help ease the process for one-track-mind Bramma users. 

Hopefully the devs make some kind of adjustment because I don't like conservation either, but it really doesn't take that long and definitely isn't hard or any version of suffering.

[PopGligor]

2 hours ago, slotschii said:

the hate is the fact that they could've achived the same with just one type of token. bug tbh i'm fine with this as well.

Warframe is all about designing needlessly complex systems.

[NanoVega]

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

"Nothing skillful about hunting" Of course there isn't when you blatantly admit you circumvent the system to just press the obligatory 4 to win. And nowhere in any of my posts did I say anything about maturity. The fact that you're trying to bring it up as "a card" reflects more upon you than it does me.

You've turned a perfectly fine opinionated conversation into a random war of childish insults. This conversation is done. Stay mad.

Not mad, but feel free to make such assumptions. The alternatives involve accidentally kill the "Innocent" things you're trying to capture. And yes, implying that you're a more socially well adjusted person is the only reason to bring up the idea of "I am Not so BARBAROUS that I only love to kill!!! Yes!! Yes! Me! I LOOVE to help things when all these other SAVAGES only want to kill, Kill, KILL." 

So I don't know whether you just didn't see that you were coming off like that or what, but I actually am a little let down by you deciding further debate is over.

[NanoVega]

Just now, PopGligor said:

Warframe is all about designing needlessly complex systems.

I dunno if that's what it's about, i've been playing for a bit and this is the first time even looking at the systems involved made me go a little cross eyed... Maybe it's just me getting old... No... It's the children who are wroong!

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, NanoVega said:

Not mad, but feel free to make such assumptions. The alternatives involve accidentally kill the "Innocent" things you're trying to capture. And yes, implying that you're a more socially well adjusted person is the only reason to bring up the idea of "I am Not so BARBAROUS that I only love to kill!!! Yes!! Yes! Me! I LOOVE to help things when all these other SAVAGES only want to kill, Kill, KILL." 

So I don't know whether you just didn't see that you were coming off like that or what, but I actually am a little let down by you deciding further debate is over.

Accusing someone of making assumptions while you yourself are making assumptions. I think I'll do more than just stop this conversation.

[Cidolfus]

9 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

There's nothing skillful about hunting. You sit around and wait, or get lucky enough that the things you want cross your path. Once that happens. You either shoot them with a crappy gun, or you press 2 in their general direction if you're playing sleepquinox. Or you hold 1 if you're playing Sleepvara. There's no further input from the player. Sorry you seem to think this hunting thing is skillful... 

Also, I love moments of peace. Some of my favorite parts of Fortuna were chilling somewhere in the mountains, watching the snow fall and tugging up a toaster out of a coolant pond now and then. So, also sorry, but you don't get to hold up the "I like tranquility so I'm a more mature/better/well-rounded person than you" card.

Well duh it's not gonna be skillful if you use equinox. That's just boring. I straight up go as whatever frame I am at the time and that sense of having to actually be a sneaky hunter.

[NanoVega]

1 minute ago, Cidolfus said:

Well duh it's not gonna be skillful if you use equinox. That's just boring. I straight up go as whatever frame I am at the time and that sense of having to actually be a sneaky hunter.

I guess? The issue becomes that you're crippling yourself by doing so. Not only are you less effective, but the projectile nature of the Tranq rifle means it can randomly go off target without indication of doing so. So you alarm the creatures (And this is assuming you've even managed to see them to begin with, (Brown skinned yellow glowing creatures on brown floor with glowing grass why)) and you've made your hunt score worse. Then immediately after that they bolt in random directions in random patterns... So if you mess up slightly, or if your gun fails randomly, you've wasted the last five minutes of finding the creatures and getting your squad together for the capturing...

[SoulEchelon]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

You have to "throw away all your guns" to mine and fish as well. 

You're actually not throwing anything away. You're using hyperbole.

Crafting and side games are a part of almost every MMO or online game. 

The system is already in place, which is why we're providing feedback to help ease the process for one-track-mind Bramma users. 

Hopefully the devs make some kind of adjustment because I don't like conservation either, but it really doesn't take that long and definitely isn't hard or any version of suffering.

This I can agree with. Like I said earlier, I understand people not wanting to do this specific type of content. But it's the weird extreme stance of completely 100% refusing to do it because of some weird, entitled thought process that confuses me. I too do hope a few QoL changes are implemented, but not the scorched earth certain people seem to want.

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

2 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Some players are conflating the lack of MMO minigame alternatives with the token system itself. Tokens are fine if there are multiple avenues to obtain them, but feel like a massive chore when you are "forced" into activities you do not enjoy in order to progress, namely conservation.

This. Exactly this.

[Cidolfus]

Just now, NanoVega said:

I guess? The issue becomes that you're crippling yourself by doing so. Not only are you less effective, but the projectile nature of the Tranq rifle means it can randomly go off target without indication of doing so. So you alarm the creatures (And this is assuming you've even managed to see them to begin with, (Brown skinned yellow glowing creatures on brown floor with glowing grass why)) and you've made your hunt score worse. Then immediately after that they bolt in random directions in random patterns... So if you mess up slightly, or if your gun fails randomly, you've wasted the last five minutes of finding the creatures and getting your squad together for the capturing...

But you just posted how you're not crippling yourself though? You can still use your powers all you want. And geez dude it's like a minute or two to capture these animals, you're acting like you're doing brain surgery while someone's stabbing you with a blunt fork.

[NanoVega]

Just now, Cidolfus said:

But you just posted how you're not crippling yourself though? You can still use your powers all you want. And geez dude it's like a minute or two to capture these animals, you're acting like you're doing brain surgery while someone's stabbing you with a blunt fork.

I guess you're playing a far less buggy game than me... Because not only are there all the factors I mentioned, but you have to worry about the spawning locations of those lures, the trackability of it's tracks, the rarities of different animals, locations they may go to and speed at which they will go to them- Should I go on? It might be a personal thing, but it seems like craziness to me...

[Circle_of_Psi]

36 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

Basically, son Requires an inordinate amount of tokens compared to the time consuming nature of gaining said items for the tokens and the annoyance complicit with the action of hunting. 

A lot of players worked for a long time to get the items they love, and play the warframes they love. And to work the game in a way they see fit. Only to be hit with a specific task which is now mandatory. Which forces you to either suffer, or throw away all your guns in favor of a semi-automatic, projectile based Tranqing weapon, which has no editability of capacity for personal choice. Alternatively, you can also use Equinox with a build that makes her other abilities worthless, or ivara, with 1 build that makes her other abilities worthless. This task has been made mandatory. That's the issue people are having.

I see..

[nslay]

When I get home from a long stressful day at work, I fire up Warframe and I tranquilize animals, fish and mine for minerals.

[Cidolfus]

Just now, NanoVega said:

I guess you're playing a far less buggy game than me... Because not only are there all the factors I mentioned, but you have to worry about the spawning locations of those lures, the trackability of it's tracks, the rarities of different animals, locations they may go to and speed at which they will go to them- Should I go on? It might be a personal thing, but it seems like craziness to me...

Gonna be a few bugs in a randomly generated system in a world with alot of geometry. The simple option is to just shrug and look for another target if you run into a bug. Maybe report it if it's really bad. Would you rather just be placed in a nice, pretty looking flat room, have a quest marker pop up on your targets head, then press a button to capture it? I mean, that doesn't sound fun at all or engaging but you do you.

[smashedwookie]

6 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

I guess you're playing a far less buggy game than me... Because not only are there all the factors I mentioned, but you have to worry about the spawning locations of those lures, the trackability of it's tracks, the rarities of different animals, locations they may go to and speed at which they will go to them- Should I go on? It might be a personal thing, but it seems like craziness to me...

You do realize that you don't have to use the lure or use the tracks to find animal on Deimos, the spawn naturally in the wild. All you have to do is fly around and you'll see some. Part of whats making it hard at the moment is we don't really know what they look like. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, Cidolfus said:

Gonna be a few bugs in a randomly generated system in a world with alot of geometry. The simple option is to just shrug and look for another target if you run into a bug. Maybe report it if it's really bad. Would you rather just be placed in a nice, pretty looking flat room, have a quest marker pop up on your targets head, then press a button to capture it? I mean, that doesn't sound fun at all or engaging but you do you.

Pretty sure that having to actually press the button would be a major point of contention. "Why aren't there any alternatives? How dare they disrespect us in this way!!" 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, smashedwookie said:

You do realize that you don't have to use the lure or use the tracks to find animal on Deimos, the spawn naturally in the wild. All you have to do is fly around and you'll see some. Part of whats making it hard at the moment is we don't really know what they look like. 

No, the people who are complaining probably don't realise that. They've been too busy complaining to figure out what is going on in the game. 

Eventually their favourite edgelord will put a video on the YouTube, and they'll go back to being "pros".