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I Don’t Understand the Token Hate


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1 minute ago, smashedwookie said:

You do realize that you don't have to use the lure or use the tracks to find animal on Deimos, the spawn naturally in the wild. All you have to do is fly around and you'll see some. Part of whats making it hard at the moment is we don't really know what they look like. 

No, the people who are complaining probably don't realise that. They've been too busy complaining to figure out what is going on in the game. 

Eventually their favourite edgelord will put a video on the YouTube, and they'll go back to being "pros". 

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

You have to "throw away all your guns" to mine and fish as well. 

You're actually not throwing anything away. You're using hyperbole.

Crafting and side games are a part of almost every MMO or online game. 

The system is already in place, which is why we're providing feedback to help ease the process for one-track-mind Bramma users. 

Hopefully the devs make some kind of adjustment because I don't like conservation either, but it really doesn't take that long and definitely isn't hard or any version of suffering.

For mining you still have all your abilities. For fishing, fish don't die instantly or glitch away if you drop a Vauban Flechette to deal with enemies while you're fishing.

Let me be more clear, then. You are FORCED to DISABLE a massive amount of the qualities of your warframe that are not passive effects, such as nidus' regen and such, in favor of a weapon that you can not alter in shape, size, coloring, fire rate, projectile/hitscan, or magazine size. 

Crafting is part of warframe. Agreed. Crafting is neat, I have millions of most materials. Feeding them to Helminth will be fun. I don't use a Bramma. I exclusively use a #*!%ing Braton because I like how simple and hitscan it is. I craft new weapons to try them out and compare their uniqueness to my favorite gun. I wouldn't advocate for a game mode that forces other players to only use a braton just because I don't mind using such a simple weapon.

This New system. A hunting system, which has only Existed for a singular Year at best. Was not part of the mandatory advancement of the game. Now. It Is. And now that it is. It's failures and imbalance are brought painfully to bear on every player that has spent years refining their capabilities. 

I hate Space Kids because they threw away all my weapons and warframes in favor of a small, stupid looking child who could only use terrible, battery based weapons. I still haven't leveled my stuff up for that reason. IF it was mandatory to use them exclusively for minigame content. I'd probably just uninstall the game and play something else. But DE doesn't want people to leave. This system they've made is only in place in order to force more people to take more time doing things. As a result, it is killing a lot of players investment in Deimos entirely. It doesn't need to be stated that that is bad. 

Their options are to trivialize the system, which the conservation people won't like. But which was previously the norm. 

Or, they can flesh it out and make it not buggy, and make it different for different players with different playstyles.

One of these choices is a lot easier than the others, and is most likely what they'll do. And ain't that the issue?

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Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pretty sure that having to actually press the button would be a major point of contention. "Why aren't there any alternatives? How dare they disrespect us in this way!!" 

Haha man why they take away the laugh upvote option cuz that was real world chuckleworthy right there. 

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1 minute ago, NanoVega said:

For mining you still have all your abilities. For fishing, fish don't die instantly or glitch away if you drop a Vauban Flechette to deal with enemies while you're fishing.

Let me be more clear, then. You are FORCED to DISABLE a massive amount of the qualities of your warframe that are not passive effects, such as nidus' regen and such, in favor of a weapon that you can not alter in shape, size, coloring, fire rate, projectile/hitscan, or magazine size. 

Crafting is part of warframe. Agreed. Crafting is neat, I have millions of most materials. Feeding them to Helminth will be fun. I don't use a Bramma. I exclusively use a #*!%ing Braton because I like how simple and hitscan it is. I craft new weapons to try them out and compare their uniqueness to my favorite gun. I wouldn't advocate for a game mode that forces other players to only use a braton just because I don't mind using such a simple weapon.

This New system. A hunting system, which has only Existed for a singular Year at best. Was not part of the mandatory advancement of the game. Now. It Is. And now that it is. It's failures and imbalance are brought painfully to bear on every player that has spent years refining their capabilities. 

I hate Space Kids because they threw away all my weapons and warframes in favor of a small, stupid looking child who could only use terrible, battery based weapons. I still haven't leveled my stuff up for that reason. IF it was mandatory to use them exclusively for minigame content. I'd probably just uninstall the game and play something else. But DE doesn't want people to leave. This system they've made is only in place in order to force more people to take more time doing things. As a result, it is killing a lot of players investment in Deimos entirely. It doesn't need to be stated that that is bad. 

Their options are to trivialize the system, which the conservation people won't like. But which was previously the norm. 

Or, they can flesh it out and make it not buggy, and make it different for different players with different playstyles.

One of these choices is a lot easier than the others, and is most likely what they'll do. And ain't that the issue?

It's going to be pretty hilarious when you finally figure out that none of what you're complaining about is actually true. 

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3 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

For mining you still have all your abilities. For fishing, fish don't die instantly or glitch away if you drop a Vauban Flechette to deal with enemies while you're fishing.

Let me be more clear, then. You are FORCED to DISABLE a massive amount of the qualities of your warframe that are not passive effects, such as nidus' regen and such, in favor of a weapon that you can not alter in shape, size, coloring, fire rate, projectile/hitscan, or magazine size. 

Crafting is part of warframe. Agreed. Crafting is neat, I have millions of most materials. Feeding them to Helminth will be fun. I don't use a Bramma. I exclusively use a #*!%ing Braton because I like how simple and hitscan it is. I craft new weapons to try them out and compare their uniqueness to my favorite gun. I wouldn't advocate for a game mode that forces other players to only use a braton just because I don't mind using such a simple weapon.

This New system. A hunting system, which has only Existed for a singular Year at best. Was not part of the mandatory advancement of the game. Now. It Is. And now that it is. It's failures and imbalance are brought painfully to bear on every player that has spent years refining their capabilities. 

I hate Space Kids because they threw away all my weapons and warframes in favor of a small, stupid looking child who could only use terrible, battery based weapons. I still haven't leveled my stuff up for that reason. IF it was mandatory to use them exclusively for minigame content. I'd probably just uninstall the game and play something else. But DE doesn't want people to leave. This system they've made is only in place in order to force more people to take more time doing things. As a result, it is killing a lot of players investment in Deimos entirely. It doesn't need to be stated that that is bad. 

Their options are to trivialize the system, which the conservation people won't like. But which was previously the norm. 

Or, they can flesh it out and make it not buggy, and make it different for different players with different playstyles.

One of these choices is a lot easier than the others, and is most likely what they'll do. And ain't that the issue?

That was a whole lot of words that pretty much just amounted to "I don't like it cuz it takes me out of my comfort zone but actually it doesn't but it kinda does tho so there." 

Gonna go try and recover my brain cells, have fun raging at the machine or whatever you young'ns do nowadays.

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6 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

For mining you still have all your abilities. For fishing, fish don't die instantly or glitch away if you drop a Vauban Flechette to deal with enemies while you're fishing.

Let me be more clear, then. You are FORCED to DISABLE a massive amount of the qualities of your warframe that are not passive effects, such as nidus' regen and such, in favor of a weapon that you can not alter in shape, size, coloring, fire rate, projectile/hitscan, or magazine size. 

Crafting is part of warframe. Agreed. Crafting is neat, I have millions of most materials. Feeding them to Helminth will be fun. I don't use a Bramma. I exclusively use a #*!%ing Braton because I like how simple and hitscan it is. I craft new weapons to try them out and compare their uniqueness to my favorite gun. I wouldn't advocate for a game mode that forces other players to only use a braton just because I don't mind using such a simple weapon.

This New system. A hunting system, which has only Existed for a singular Year at best. Was not part of the mandatory advancement of the game. Now. It Is. And now that it is. It's failures and imbalance are brought painfully to bear on every player that has spent years refining their capabilities. 

I hate Space Kids because they threw away all my weapons and warframes in favor of a small, stupid looking child who could only use terrible, battery based weapons. I still haven't leveled my stuff up for that reason. IF it was mandatory to use them exclusively for minigame content. I'd probably just uninstall the game and play something else. But DE doesn't want people to leave. This system they've made is only in place in order to force more people to take more time doing things. As a result, it is killing a lot of players investment in Deimos entirely. It doesn't need to be stated that that is bad. 

Their options are to trivialize the system, which the conservation people won't like. But which was previously the norm. 

Or, they can flesh it out and make it not buggy, and make it different for different players with different playstyles.

One of these choices is a lot easier than the others, and is most likely what they'll do. And ain't that the issue?

Operators are basically what the game is about. They're probably gonna make them more in the spotlight in later content releases. 

It might be time to make an attempt to be a more well-rounded player instead of a one-trick pony that wants Call of Duty with bullet jumping. 

It doesn't matter to me, though. Not my problem. I'm excited to see you back here complaining that your ugly space kid isn't ready for content and is "forced" to farm focus lol. Good luck 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Operators are basically what the game is about. They're probably gonna make them more in the spotlight in later content releases. 

It might be time to make an attempt to be a more well-rounded player instead of a one-trick pony that wants Call of Duty with bullet jumping. 

It doesn't matter to me, though. Not my problem. I'm excited to see you back here complaining that your ugly space kid isn't ready for content and is "forced" to farm focus lol. Good luck 

When they're adults and can carry guns I'll probably like them better. I have maxed focus because I can use the stuff I like to accomplish that. So uuuh, nice try? Feel free to make otherwise assumptions about my well roundedness and capabilities based off of what i said, but keep in mind all I've said is that I like having a streamlined, straightforward baseline to compare new and interesting things to. Operators are an anecdote, funnily, already left behind when you think about it, they aren't intrinsic to any of the last 5 updates that came out. So uuuuh, I think you're the one off point. Do take care though.

And don't get me wrong, I know my arguing ultimately means little, but even if just a bit of raging at the dying of the light is enough to make DE see, then I'll be glad I did my part when they make conservation trivial, and all these guys who think it needs skill have to eat their words.

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2 hours ago, NanoVega said:

Ok yes. There's Subjective Opinions. Right? Which is how I feel. And I feel, like having to throw away all my weapons and gear and mandatorily do a mini game I hate, in order to progress to get to the things I actually want in this update. still with me? Is Stupid. 

But factually speaking. The Hunting system, especially on Deimos. Is a bloated, buggy mess.

 

Back to subjective, it seems like the only people who have managed to go far with it, are the kind who love it unconditionally. And they're only not complaining that its mandatory because they don't have to do the stuff they want to do to get to the part of the game that is fun for them. They don't want to see it trivialized, versus other people who would love to see it removed entirely.

You're talking about "skill" in a PVE game where you can 1 shot everything already...
I fear i do not understand, since to me, it makes no difference if i "rush a sortie within 90secs, 1-shotting hordes and extract.
or
Go to any open world and throw an arrow or cast on animals to press X near them.

So yeah, ive no idea what skill it involves to use any weapon we can easily skilless polarize withing 5 minutes to max in ESO just to have it 1 shot everything in the game.( ok Eidolons need 2 hits each leg.. still...)

From what i read here, people want to KILL enemies with their Supergear ... which would take no time at all...
And then? What do you do then? What do you do when you erase the map with your Ignis and get your 999 tokens?
You max out Standing and be done... then wait for next patch?

I do not like fishing, or animal hunt ... but then, its part of the Story, its part of the Update .. it all belongs together.
I really do not understand the problem here.

We do have Conservation on Venus and Earth.

Also, lets try to imagine you're on a reallife mission, reward is fancy stuff you want, and the mission giver tell you to do a job, in a specific way..you'd do it, don't you?
I myself was int he situation where i had to use completely different software and method to complete a Graphics job for a client.. it was not exciting, but that was my job.. i did it and got my reward...

Its nothing different in Warframe...
I can agree that to much grind is terrible ( just like we have in relics and Lichs ),but Deimos is live... 1 day? why are we judging so quickly?

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4 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Some players are conflating the lack of MMO minigame alternatives with the token system itself. Tokens are fine if there are multiple avenues to obtain them, but feel like a massive chore when you are "forced" into activities you do not enjoy in order to progress, namely conservation.

Yep well said, multiple avenues to get said tokens is all that need to be implemented aprt from that I actually like the basic system .. so far so good.. But damn I do like the new world look.. awesome synegy with infested .. 

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17 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Yep well said, multiple avenues to get said tokens is all that need to be implemented aprt from that I actually like the basic system .. so far so good.. But damn I do like the new world look.. awesome synegy with infested .. 

But then we need that for all parts of the game.
Would be nice to get Vitus essence just for Fishing or Hunting.

If people want circumvent Deimos stuff, why not add that to the entire game?
Sounds great to me...

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I have seen plenty of people asking for the token system to be removed. Like, literally all over these forums.

I also added an edit to my post regarding people being forced into certain things and said I agreed with that sentiment, which you clearly ignored.

You have those players, but you are conflating one group (those who want token system removed, which by the way, is how PoE & Fortuna are run so unless you believe players are handed everything there, then statements such as "players want everything wants it handed to them" doesn't apply) with players who want what PoE & Fortuna have, conservation as an optional avenue for rank up, and not a requirement for ranking up. 

See: 

4 hours ago, Kconvey said:

Something , anything other than the stupid broken conservation game.

 

 

Edited by (PS4)DoctorWho_90250
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

You have those players, but you are conflating one group (those who want token system removed, which by the way, is how PoE & Fortuna are run so unless you believe players are handed everything there, then statements such as "everything wants it handed to them" doesn't apply) with players who want what PoE & Fortuna have, conservation as an optional avenue for rank up, and not a requirement for ranking up. 

See: 

 

I have never used the words “players want everything handed to them”. That’s been others in the thread.

So, considering I never said that, I’m not really sure what your point is here. I’ve said several times now that I agree with people who don’t want to be forced into conservation. It’s literally in my OP that you quoted.

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Just now, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I have never used the words “players want everything handed to them”. That’s been others in the thread.

So, considering I never said that, I’m not really sure what your point is here. I’ve said several times now that I agree with people who don’t want to be forced into conservation. It’s literally in my OP that you quoted.

You agreed with a player who did say that, all the way on the first page of this thread. So...you agree with the sentiment but you're now backing away from it? 

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

You agreed with a player who did say that, all the way on the first page of this thread. So...you agree with the sentiment but you're now backing away from it? 

I think you’re misunderstanding something I’ve said. I just went back and read all my posts from the first page and the only thing I agreed with was people who said they shouldn’t be forced into conservation. That’s what made me add the edit to my post in the first place, because I agree that players shouldn’t be forced into doing conservation.

Edited by (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face
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1 minute ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I think you’re misunderstanding something I’ve said. I just went back and read all my posts from the first page and the only thing I agreed with was people who said they shouldn’t be forced into conservation.

Ach. Darn. I can admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. I misinterpreted a post. Had blinker vision on. 

My bad. 

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18 minutes ago, Vyra said:

But then we need that for all parts of the game.
Would be nice to get Vitus essence just for Fishing or Hunting.

If people want circumvent Deimos stuff, why not add that to the entire game?
Sounds great to me...

pssst .. no-one chases Vitus Essence anymore .. its Steel Essense now.. anyway .. seriously I dont think people want to " circumvent Deimos stuff " they just want alternate ways to earn tokens rather than conservation, which is a broken system .. the token system I think works and if DE fixes the conservation system it would be great ..  

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Token system is actually insanely good. I think alot of people keep confusing this whole thing up.

☆ Tokens good

☆ Six versions of tokens that feed into the same system bad

☆ Forcing people into doing the boring stuff like mining , fishing and saving the animals is bad.

☆ Not having a secondary way if this system must be this way is bad.

Expac is unreal but this issues is definitely a big one for those who dislike Minecraft esk systems in the space ninja game. A simple fix would be to have bounties reward less mother but gain 1 of each for the family. Or turn the six token system into one. Or make it so these activities and the tokens for them are not mandatory to the rest of the expac but their own thing.

But i am guessing that would see very few do them once more unless needed.

Edited by (PS4)Mofojokers
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1 hour ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

You agreed with a player who did say that, all the way on the first page of this thread. So...you agree with the sentiment but you're now backing away from it? 

ITs BROKEN... why is it hard to understand that?

It's so broken they had to patch some of it out... literally like 2 hours after launch.

Edited by Kconvey
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6 hours ago, Yakhul said:

Is simple: people want everything handed down to them in a silver plate, some ppl are incapable of working for their stuff and too impatient to stockpile tokens.

100% spot on.

Some people are really lazy and want things handed to them.

"But it normalizes Conservation/Fishing!! It shouldn't be part of progression!!" meanwhile they ignore the fact that Bounties are mandatory as well.... none of them demand bounties be removed or nerfed. 

Is the Token system perfect? Nah, could use some tweaks. But it's superior to Fortuna/Cetus. I hope it stays.

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7 minutes ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

100% spot on.

Some people are really lazy and want things handed to them.

"But it normalizes Conservation/Fishing!! It shouldn't be part of progression!!" meanwhile they ignore the fact that Bounties are mandatory as well.... none of them demand bounties be removed or nerfed. 

Is the Token system perfect? Nah, could use some tweaks. But it's superior to Fortuna/Cetus. I hope it stays.

ITS BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They arent doing a good job testing things, look at my post about the improved mining visibility, you can clearly see a screenshot where the mine node is COMPLETELY invisible!

Some people are literally getting no wild spawns at all, and how are you supposed to do conservation if it doesnt work.

Edited by Kconvey
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Just now, KrazyKavatLady said:

Which part is broken?

Well the birds for one, they are flying too high to spot often

Some players are getting no spawn no matter how much they fly around looking for them.

 

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Just now, Kconvey said:

Well the birds for one, they are flying too high to spot often

Some players are getting no spawn no matter how much they fly around looking for them.

 

Okay so it needs tweaks. That doesn't mean the Token system (or Conservation) need to be nerfed or removed.

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