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I Don’t Understand the Token Hate


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6 minutes ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

Okay so it needs tweaks. That doesn't mean the Token system (or Conservation) need to be nerfed or removed.

Yeah thats exactly what it means.....

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14 minutes ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

I can easily say the same thing about Bounties.

I've never liked bounties either, but they are at least recognizable as core WF combat, even if low enemy density and long defense timers leave you wandering around empty space searching for spawns, or standing there waiting doing nothing. Conservation? Not what I signed up for, not even close.

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Conservation should be like a mini game that you do on your own time and nothing to do with content , we already have Fishing and Mining and people got use to that over the years but Conservation is just the worst thing in this game EVEN worst then liches and that is very bad.

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Babadook said:

Conservation should be like a mini game that you do on your own time and nothing to do with content , we already have Fishing and Mining and people got use to that over the years but Conservation is just the worst thing in this game EVEN worst then liches and that is very bad.

Nah, no, Liches are far worse.  Conservation is just a scavenger hunt.

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16 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Conservation? Not what I signed up for, not even close.

Well, the game has evolved. Some like it. Some don't. Oh well.

10 minutes ago, Lord_Babadook said:

Conservation is just the worst thing in this game EVEN worst then liches and that is very bad.

Liches are awful. Conservation is fun. 

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it's gonna take a while to get enough Son Tokens, and I noticed you also need tags to hit rank 3, so that's even more animals to tranq... plus each of the token purchases usually require the uncommon and rare animal tags, and most of the time they barely ever show up.

forced Conservation is a mistake. it should have stayed optional like with the previous open worlds. 

 

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6 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

There are obviously some kinks to work out, particularly with the son tokens, but overall this is going be so much better than previous standing systems once those kinks are worked out.

You can just stockpile tokens for the next day, so for the first time you can actually farm past your standing limit. So I just don’t understand the hate.

EDIT: Couple people have pointed out that some of the annoyance comes from being forced into things like conservation. I agree with this and I do think they should implement multiple ways to get certain tokens, or just condense it to one or two types of tokens that can be obtained multiple ways. Overall though, token system good.

^ Completely agree 100%

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5 minutes ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

Liches are awful. Conservation is fun.

Conservation is awful. Liches are fun (granted it took them half a year to remove the idiotic RNG auto deaths and remove a few of the layers of brutal RNG). You can at least skip part of the Lich grind now by trading plat for someone's enslaved converted Lich with the weapon you want. Can't say the same for conservation...

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15 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Conservation is awful. Liches are fun (granted it took them half a year to remove the idiotic RNG auto deaths and remove a few of the layers of brutal RNG). You can at least skip part of the Lich grind now by trading plat for someone's enslaved converted Lich with the weapon you want. Can't say the same for conservation...

Conservation is easier and way quicker to do than Liches. Also, Conservation doesn't need plat, ever. 

There's a massive difference between the two. They're not comparable. 

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The core problem is they are testing your acceptance.

Are the players desperate enough to waste hours upon hours on content they hate, to get something they enjoy?

Is why this whole fake player metrics and content held hostage has to go. Because it's just going to get worse next time. It sets a precedent for all content and the entire mentality of the community.

We can't always agree on what good content is, but I am sure we can all agree the narrative of warframe, was always the goodwill from the players, based on giving the players at least some compromises.

Now I am getting forced into content I hate with zero compromise.

I am not okay with that, and I am especially not okay with being like this for everything moving forward.

I really have no idea why it seems so important to some developer to justify fishing and mining at gunpoint. Is there a developer ready to come and defend the quality of that gameplay?

So what are you doing, just deliberately wasting people's time to boost metrics?

Seems like straight corporatism thinking. Gameplay is cut down into an industrialized clock simply based on how much time it can force you waste. I thought we all agreed warframe was better than that and above such pitiful nonsense.

We are out here because we believe in a fun game we all enjoy and respect, right?

 

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40 minutes ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

Well, the game has evolved. Some like it. Some don't. Oh well.

Liches are awful. Conservation is fun. 

Sorry, but no. If anything, liches are the part that evolves upon the game's basic mechanic (even if a not so small number of people thinks the execution was done poorly)
Conservation, fishing and mining, are alternative minigames. Even tho i find some of these relaxing on the offtime, it's a huge turnoff to be gated by these activities.
By the same logic, why not have a patch gated behind frame fighter and happy zephyr, they are fun little minigames by their own right, but for the exact same reason, WF shouldn't make major content depend upon playing them for hours on end on a grind to be able to progress, as people who play warframe did not in general sign up to play a fighter or a flappy bird knockoff.

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8 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

 


Well again, any solutions to be given aren't supposed to also negate the need to actually do some form of conservation. The system isn't there to be ignored or become immediately obsolete.

the whole point of conservation WAS to be OPTIONAL.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I have seen plenty of people asking for the token system to be removed. Like, literally all over these forums.

This Token System is not like Debt Bonds or Medallions. This is just a chore system with a bunch of middleman requirements for the same basic progression in other updates. This patch would have been way better without Tokens, because what we got shipped was not tested, not tuned, not thought out well, and not fun. There is potential, but the initial bad taste makes it not compelling or interesting. The only compelling part of this system for people is to only have to play the game once a week for a weeks worth of standing instead of having to be active like the previous installments of syndicates.

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2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This Token System is not like Debt Bonds or Medallions. This is just a chore system with a bunch of middleman requirements for the same basic progression in other updates. This patch would have been way better without Tokens, because what we got shipped was not tested, not tuned, not thought out well, and not fun. There is potential, but the initial bad taste makes it not compelling or interesting. The only compelling part of this system for people is to only have to play the game once a week for a weeks worth of standing instead of having to be active like the previous installments of syndicates.

They need to do something about the conservation tokens (I don’t care how they do it but lowering the cost seems like the way to go) but assuming that gets ironed out I just don’t agree. You’re still doing the exact same “chores” you did in the other open worlds, just now you can stockpile the tokens. That being said I do hope they tweak in a way that makes everything not mandatory anymore, to keep it in line with previous open world systems.

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5 hours ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

pssst .. no-one chases Vitus Essence anymore .. 

1 hour for 2 Steel Essence? i repeated that many times its always the same.. ax of 2 steel essence in 1 hour.. so i quit that.

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While I agree that conservation shouldn't be forced... It's really not that bad guys, come on. Only a few creatures require an echo lure, the rest just spawn in the wild and they're practically everywhere. You're bound to run into a handful doing bounties. Heck, just run around exploring the map for half an hour and you're bound to get more than enough for the requirements, especially with a booster. The tokens are fine, they let you stockpile standing to gain as you need it, so you could just set a day aside to grind tokens and have all the excess standing you could ever want if you ever have a day you can't be on long but don't want to be set back. My only real complaint is we should be able to turn the tokens in with anyone for standing, not just grandmother.

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13 minutes ago, Chaincat said:

While I agree that conservation shouldn't be forced... It's really not that bad guys, come on. Only a few creatures require an echo lure, the rest just spawn in the wild and they're practically everywhere. You're bound to run into a handful doing bounties. Heck, just run around exploring the map for half an hour and you're bound to get more than enough for the requirements, especially with a booster. The tokens are fine, they let you stockpile standing to gain as you need it, so you could just set a day aside to grind tokens and have all the excess standing you could ever want if you ever have a day you can't be on long but don't want to be set back. My only real complaint is we should be able to turn the tokens in with anyone for standing, not just grandmother.

It really isn't bad but it's RNG stacked on RNG. Not only do I have to spend "half an hour" doing something I hate but if I don't get the right dog to tranq then I'm boned and left waiting for the tokens to refresh so I can turn my tags in for what, one token? If I could trade any tags in and get tokens in return that's fine. Same thing for the Father Tokens, scintillant isn't easy to get. If you end up with all of the trades needing it you're boned unless you want to spend an hour grinding the vault hoping for those things to show up. Right now it's way too rigid with way too many layers of RNG for it to feel fun. I really don't mind grind, it's why I've been playing this game for #*!%ing ever but this feels so artificial and made specifically to get people to play parts of the game they'd rather ignore to keep us at bay for the next update.

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Something alot of people are leaving are that you get rewarded less for doing the same activities on Deimos compared to the other open worlds we have. For example, conservation, the highest standing you can earn for conservation are 8000(Orb V.), 3600(POE), and 500(Deimos), and Deimos requires way more effort than the other 2 seeing how its not 1 capture you need to trade in for a single token, its multiple. Same can be seen for fish 1000(Orb V.), 2000(POE), and 100(Deimos), and with Deimos its not even multiple fish, you have to cut it up, and hope that the resource you get from that are whats being requested at that hour. Heres mining as well 1000(Orb V.), 400(POE), 100(Deimos) and just like with the last two on Deimos you need multiple resources, not a single for the others. This system is worse than what we already have in the game, the only redeeming quality it has is that you can continue your Rep grind after hitting the max for the day, but thats not even something exclusive to Deimos, you can still stock up your fish and gems in Orb V. and POE and max out your rep on multiple days if you dedicated to farm for just one. So until DE does something with the value of Deimos' token system and actually make it worth doing compared to the others we have in the game, there should be no one defending this trash.

Edited by Hyro1
conservation
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Sounds like an exchange rate issue and the lack of standing from bounties to me from what I've been parsing around while waiting for the Switch update to drop.

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I forgot to mention, even if you were going for the bare minimum with the other factions you'll still be getting more for your time compared to Deimos. Minimum for conservation are 200(Orb V./POE), for mining its 50(Orb V./POE), and fishing 45(Orb V.) and 25(POE). Even at the minimum, since you aren't trading for tokens, you are still getting more for you time than on Deimos, and that is excluding that, in my experience, boosters don't work with resources on Deimos

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I am starting to be of the opinion that Son tokens should just get a rep value cut from 500 to 100 and changed so that if you catch a common rarity creature you get 1 token on bad, 2 tokens on good, 3 tokens on perfect in addition to the creature's tag. If it is uncommon then 2 tokens on bad, 4 tokens on good, 6 tokens on perfect. If it is rare then 3 tokens on bad, 6 on good, 9 on perfect. Then remove the tags from being in rank up requirements, even if you need to increase the amount of mother or father tokens seeing how those tokens are easy to get.

Result? Son tokens are no longer annoying to deal with, capture quality grades actually mean something again, conservation returns to being a side activity like mining is.

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