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Grineer Commander Swarm


Derpo
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How many Grineer Commanders does it take to spoil the soup? I ran into five (5) in a single group at Olla of the planet (or asteroid) Ceres. I was 'teleport locked' through all of my revives on a well-constructed Mag. &nbsp

I'm not God's gift to Warframe, and I'm not a Founder. But I put a decent amount of money into the game and I'm highly skilled. This is my 8th maxed warframe, and ranks about the middle of what I have in terms of effectiveness. When I tell you that continuous switch teleports ruin the game, you can argue that you think it is fun to be continually flipped across the map, or you can tell me your secret to effective combat under the circumstances, but you would be a completely useless boor if you responded, "learn to play".

The switch teleport ability is detrimental to the game under any circumstances. It's not realistic, it's not interesting, and it sure as hell is not fun. In a game, 'not fun' is a bad thing.

But to have switch-teleporting Grineer Commanders show up to a fight in swarms is abysmal. WTF am I supposed to do with this? In other words, you the devs need to limit yourselves to JUST ONE stupid, annoying, game-breaking Grineer Commander at a time...or better yet, ZERO.

I am aware that the community is very very good here, but a great community can turn into a barrel full of nodding yes-men. Before you post 'the devs are doing their best' or 'I like it the way it is', please think about what is best for the game and the community in the long term. I love the game, I do. I love the community even more, you people are smart, positive, and helpful...in short awesome. I have brought my gang to the game, and I brought a desire to improve the game. Let's fix this switch teleport problem. Let's have the best game we can have.

Thanks.

Edited by Derpo
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By this logic we can get rid of the chain stunning ancients also, by the time you get up another one runs in and you are knocked down again and they even strip your energy.

 

You're making sense to me. I think that being stunned should provide twenty seconds of immunity to further stuns. But that's not the topic, the topic is excessive numbers of Grineer Commanders. I'd like to keep this thread on that - but thank you for reading the post and replying.

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I despise commanders, and they become horrendously broken when they come in groups, but i think the solution would not necessarily be to limit the spawns; I think the commanders themselves need an overhaul.

 

I think something that would make grineer commanders much less infuriating would be to adjust the functionality of their switch teleport power. Instead of an instant swap, there will be a short delay, and a clear visual indicator that the commander has locked on and is attempting a swap, and shows the general direction of the commander to the player. This short period gives the player an opportunity to "break" the teleport by either breaking line-of-sight by darting behind something, or by killing or stunning the commander to interrupt it. This gives the player much more potential control over the situation, instead of being haplessly zipped around without any warning whatsoever.

 

Inserting a delay would also help in situations where more than one commander ends up spawning, since it would make the other commanders wait before they could have their turn.

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I despise commanders, and they become horrendously broken when they come in groups, but i think the solution would not necessarily be to limit the spawns; I think the commanders themselves need an overhaul.

 

I think something that would make grineer commanders much less infuriating would be to adjust the functionality of their switch teleport power. Instead of an instant swap, there will be a short delay, and a clear visual indicator that the commander has locked on and is attempting a swap, and shows the general direction of the commander to the player. This short period gives the player an opportunity to "break" the teleport by either breaking line-of-sight by darting behind something, or by killing or stunning the commander to interrupt it. This gives the player much more potential control over the situation, instead of being haplessly zipped around without any warning whatsoever.

 

Inserting a delay would also help in situations where more than one commander ends up spawning, since it would make the other commanders wait before they could have their turn.

 

Outstanding suggestion. If Grineer Commanders must have switch teleport, then this post would make it much less aggravating and much less of a game-breaker.

Thanks!

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Lol "highly skilled" are you serious? The only thing that allows players to display skill is the broken parkour system. The primitive gameplay and in-cohesive maneuvers do not allow a player to leverage skill over farmed up gear. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to keep the current farm it up system while implementing a skill based gameplay system, but one is definitely not in place. Sure you can have skill at making and executing builds but not actual in-game tactical genius or battle prowess. PvP scratches the surface.

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How many Grineer Commanders does it take to spoil the soup? I ran into five (5) in a single group at Olla of the planet (or asteroid) Ceres. I was 'teleport locked' through all of my revives on a well-constructed Mag. &nbsp

 

Pro tip:

you should avoid running into a group of 5 commanders unless you have maxed out http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sure_Footed and http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fortitude equipped

Edited by ADDpillz
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By this logic we can get rid of the chain stunning ancients also

Well, Ancients are melee units, so you can avoid them rather easily. But Commanders can spot and lock on to you from the other end of the room.

 

 

I think something that would make grineer commanders much less infuriating ...

Sounds like a good idea. And it would give you the possibility to lure them into switch-teleport, so you can wipe out their squad the second you land.

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Lol "highly skilled" are you serious? The only thing that allows players to display skill is the broken parkour system. The primitive gameplay and in-cohesive maneuvers do not allow a player to leverage skill over farmed up gear. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to keep the current farm it up system while implementing a skill based gameplay system, but one is definitely not in place. Sure you can have skill at making and executing builds but not actual in-game tactical genius or battle prowess. PvP scratches the surface.

Thanks for your response. My opinion that I am highly skilled is obviously just my own opinion. However, I stand by it. The post quoted above is tangental to the topic of Grineer Commander swarms, or  I would respond to the statement about "the primitive gameplay". Let's just say I don't agree. Perfect? No. Excellent? Yes.

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I'd rather just see the ability removed from them. They should have a support buff of some kind instead, that increases the effectiveness of nearby grineer units.

Just noticing that I've teamed with this guy RedDirtTrooper and he knows his S#&$. Also, he's making sense in this post. Thanks for your response, RedDirtTrooper, and thanks for being a polite and skillful teammate.

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in the moment that you are teleported you take no real damage, look for walls to break vision. 

 

use shade, use deathcube do something ....... try not put yourself in a situation where you have 5 commanders near you.

 

I have never met 5 commanders in one spot, but I alaways kill the commander that teleports me(imediatly after the teleport I look for him and kill him almost ignoring the others or dodging them). I found a maximum of 2 commanders at once but they were far appart from eachother, it was a coincidence that the second saw me but after that the first couldn't teleport me again, and this happened in a big room so I had only one near me so I killed him.

 

My thoughts are that there shouldn't be any anti cc mechanic.

 

I bet you like it when you can chain stun enemies, anyone likes that, so try to work around your problems. You said you are skilled ..... use those. skills.

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Why do Commanders even HAVE a switch teleport? Like, what was the thought process behind this?

 

"I am the Commander of my squadron, and it is up to my superior intellect and skill over my lesser brethren to lead them to victory! OH I KNOW! I shall switch places with one of the invading Tenno! *poof. now he's in the middle of 3 Tenno with their Somas pointed at him while the teleported target is in the midst of his squad with an ult ready*"

 

Just get rid of his switch teleport and make him actually command. Make him have this area of influence where other Grineers will listen to commands he shouts.

Example commands:

"THROW GRENADES!" All affected Grineers throw grenades at target in unison. Run, Forest, run!

"CHARGE!" All Grineers ignore cover and zerg rush the Tenno.

"That's a FAKE you dimwits!" Response to Decoy/Moult. Makes Grineers ignore the decoy.

"TAKE COVER/CEASE FIRE!" Response to defensive skills such as Snow Globe or Absorb. Grineers will stay in cover and cease fire, making it harder for players to shoot them from the safety of a Globe, or stop feeding an Absorb.

 

Unlike general AI behaviour, which is hard to code, semi-random commands such as throwing grenades or responsive commands to skills would be much less harder to code. It would also show that the Commanders are smarter than other Grineers, and actually hold a commanding role amongst the Grineers. Much less BS than a switch teleport spam.

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Just get rid of his switch teleport and make him actually command. Make him have this area of influence where other Grineers will listen to commands he shouts.

Example commands:

"THROW GRENADES!" All affected Grineers throw grenades at target in unison. Run, Forest, run!

"CHARGE!" All Grineers ignore cover and zerg rush the Tenno.

"That's a FAKE you dimwits!" Response to Decoy/Moult. Makes Grineers ignore the decoy.

"TAKE COVER/CEASE FIRE!" Response to defensive skills such as Snow Globe or Absorb. Grineers will stay in cover and cease fire, making it harder for players to shoot them from the safety of a Globe, or stop feeding an Absorb.

 

Unlike general AI behaviour, which is hard to code, semi-random commands such as throwing grenades or responsive commands to skills would be much less harder to code. It would also show that the Commanders are smarter than other Grineers, and actually hold a commanding role amongst the Grineers. Much less BS than a switch teleport spam.

 

Except grineer don't speak english and people rush to the forums asking why decoy got nerfed because they don't know why its not working anymore.

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I think something that would make grineer commanders much less infuriating would be to adjust the functionality of their switch teleport power. Instead of an instant swap, there will be a short delay, and a clear visual indicator that the commander has locked on and is attempting a swap, and shows the general direction of the commander to the player. This short period gives the player an opportunity to "break" the teleport by either breaking line-of-sight by darting behind something, or by killing or stunning the commander to interrupt it. This gives the player much more potential control over the situation, instead of being haplessly zipped around without any warning whatsoever.

 

I fully agree with this sentiment.  In my opinion, a good visual indicator would be a red symbol under the player character's feet (as well as the feet of the enemy Commander), which would fill up or count down during the teleport activation time (letting players know approximately how much time they had left, and allowing them to locate the enemy attempting to switch places with them).  Such a symbol could even be the Grineer logo (or just a simple red circle). 

 

Why a symbol around the feet?  Because while there are many warframe powers which add particle (or other various) effects to the whole body, most center around the torso instead of the feet (which should hopefully make the teleport warning easier to see in a hectic situation). 

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I despise commanders, and they become horrendously broken when they come in groups, but i think the solution would not necessarily be to limit the spawns; I think the commanders themselves need an overhaul.

 

I think something that would make grineer commanders much less infuriating would be to adjust the functionality of their switch teleport power. Instead of an instant swap, there will be a short delay, and a clear visual indicator that the commander has locked on and is attempting a swap, and shows the general direction of the commander to the player. This short period gives the player an opportunity to "break" the teleport by either breaking line-of-sight by darting behind something, or by killing or stunning the commander to interrupt it. This gives the player much more potential control over the situation, instead of being haplessly zipped around without any warning whatsoever.

 

Inserting a delay would also help in situations where more than one commander ends up spawning, since it would make the other commanders wait before they could have their turn.

Breaking the line of sight. That's what we need the most right now.

Being teleported into a pack of Scorches when you're in a completely different room with a solid wall in the way is simply not fair. If they can't see diddly squat, they shouldn't be able to magically switch spots with diddly squat.

Even if they can see our outlines like Tenno can see their teammates, they still shouldn't be able to switch. Loki can't.

Edited by SortaRandom
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Why do Commanders even HAVE a switch teleport? Like, what was the thought process behind this?

 

"I am the Commander of my squadron, and it is up to my superior intellect and skill over my lesser brethren to lead them to victory! OH I KNOW! I shall switch places with one of the invading Tenno! *poof. now he's in the middle of 3 Tenno with their Somas pointed at him while the teleported target is in the midst of his squad with an ult ready*"

 

Just get rid of his switch teleport and make him actually command. Make him have this area of influence where other Grineers will listen to commands he shouts.

Example commands:

"THROW GRENADES!" All affected Grineers throw grenades at target in unison. Run, Forest, run!

"CHARGE!" All Grineers ignore cover and zerg rush the Tenno.

"That's a FAKE you dimwits!" Response to Decoy/Moult. Makes Grineers ignore the decoy.

"TAKE COVER/CEASE FIRE!" Response to defensive skills such as Snow Globe or Absorb. Grineers will stay in cover and cease fire, making it harder for players to shoot them from the safety of a Globe, or stop feeding an Absorb.

 

Unlike general AI behaviour, which is hard to code, semi-random commands such as throwing grenades or responsive commands to skills would be much less harder to code. It would also show that the Commanders are smarter than other Grineers, and actually hold a commanding role amongst the Grineers. Much less BS than a switch teleport spam.

 

I've made similar observations. "That guy with the axe the size of an engine block that's been cutting you all to pieces? I'm going to leave him here with you guys while I go over there... toodles!"

 

I much prefer your idea.

 

Personally, I consider it kinda lazy that that Commanders are basically just given a Loki's Switch Teleport, since a frame's abilities are what makes it unique. It's even worse since Commanders basically just use it because they can, regardless of whether it's advantageous or not: My favorite example of such? When one teleported me while I was mid-air in an open space a good 50+ feet from terra firma, I was teleported behind cover on the ground, I never saw that Commander again. :-P

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Commanders can't use their skills while KD. As a mag, you should have been able to just hit pull to floor them all. Cheap, effective, and spammable. It's also plausible you could've bullet attractored one of them, but that can be pricey, so it's entirely possible it wouldn't be an option. However, pull, as your first skill, should be available at almost all times, and quite cheap.

 

The other thing, on a rescue mission, enemies pop in small groups. To get 5 commanders, you'd have been required to trigger multiple spawns at once. I have seen multiple commanders spawn in a row, but they are "heavy" unit, so they do not spawn in large groups.

 

Lastly, some frames don't have a great trick like mag, and for them, diving out the nearest door is a great choice--you cannot be switch teleported if they cannot establish LoS.

 

I can imagine, at best, you met maybe two by triggering two spawns at once. On a rescue mission, I can't imagine your team(didn't you have a team?) would do the rushing needed to cause multiple spawns like that. If you did have a team, why didn't they help you? If you didn't, why were you ignoring spawn warnings?

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Except grineer don't speak english and people rush to the forums asking why decoy got nerfed because they don't know why its not working anymore.

Wouldn't be a problem if DE briefly explains the Commander re-work in the patch notes. Also, the Grineer speak an altered version of English. Even now, you can comprehend certain phrases, like "ATTACK" or "TENNO SCUM". Their command lines simply need to be comprehensible, such as having the word "grenade" in the throw grenade command, i.e. "SICTA TOR GURNADE!" or something like that.
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