Fighting necromechs is wrong

[JHarlequin]

 I hate to say it but I can't find a reasonable way to take on a necromech.  He goes rhino, damage shield, and instant shield restore way too often to fight him in any normal way.

 I don't like the necromechs in the first place and I don't really intend to get one but now that I see what it is like to fight against one I know it is just wrong.

 When using "snake" you had a power limit and ammo recharge limit.  Npc necromechs don't have those limits.  Your powers lasted a limited time and only fired so many times.  Npc necromechs don't have those limits.  When you use damage shield, it doesn't stop anything.  When the npc necromech uses it, any ranged attack instantly drains your shields and damages you while the necromech takes no damage.

 I haven't tried everything and the weapon I had was not my highest power weapon and probably wasn't element targetted to the necromech, but it can kill everything else efficiently and almost far too quickly, but the necromech doesn't even really take damage from it.  Not to mention if it isn't an arm shot it basically doesn't count.

 Maybe the necromech fights aren't exactly wrong, but it seems to likely limit melee weapons useless, and half of the ranged weapons nearly useless and leave the rest of the ranged weapons weakened.  It became the most frustrating thing and will likely just get a guide put up about how to trivialize a necromech and whenever we might have to fight one, we'll equip the right kitgun and one shot the damned thing rather than fight it.

 As feedback goes I want to say that the npc necromechs should not constantly counter everything the warframes have because it was built to fight something else.  It seems stupid that every attack is meant for warframes rather than the infested or any other enemies that by the lore are what it was built to fight.

[Sevek7]

I haven't had these problems. I first shoot off the arms, then shoot the back until the mech dies. 

If you're having trouble hitting the back, try using invisibility, or Zenurik void blast, or a specter to draw attention.

Personally, I like the fight. 

[JHarlequin]

 Then I definitely am having problems because the arms wouldn't stay off long enough to shoot much else and even when I did shoot it in the back, only gray zeros popped off even when the arms were off.

 Maybe it's just a minor issue I was having, it still seems like it isn't working right but I will have to try again.  I still hate the damned thing.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I feel like the necramechs need some tuning to be fun to fight against on foot. As it stands, they can turn around so quickly that it's nearly impossible to land a hit on the back unless the mech is distracted with something else. Maybe if they charge and miss, they ought have more of a stun period where you can get them in the back. Perhaps something similar to lech kril, where you have several seconds to get behind them and hose them down.

Their attacks are also weirdly inconsistent in damage. As a durability spec oberon with renewal + HG up, I can resist their attacks pretty well, until suddenly I'll randomly get downed even though I have high armor and more than 1k health. Seemingly by a normal shot at that, not the grenade spam attack. 

Also the slowdown grenade is awful to be hit with and essentially kills any chance you have of hitting the back until it wears off.

And the shield is annoying too, since there's very little feedback when it goes up. If you miss the minor visual FX in the heat of combat, suddenly all your bullets are wasted.

[TheNeonGod]

When it detects you, you have little time to move out of the way or it nukes you. Also you need to be at a great distance away from the necramech to use your operator for what school you use for energy or health. Maybe it could have a aimbot making it unbeatable at solo unless you have a tank build like Inaros or maybe stealth warframes.

[JHarlequin]

 Certainly tried again and yeah, it can take damage when you shoot the back.  Still seems like a miracle and it's less damage than I did when I was shooting the arms.  It still goes damage shield every time, still regens the shields constantly.  I am having the usual universal problem of explosions hitting at infinite range sometimes.

 As a npc, the necromech has abilities above and beyond everything.  As a player tool, it might get okay, but it is never going to be even close to what the npc version can do.  It is only meant to be a pain in the ass to fight.  If you do not go against it with teammates you should not be able to beat it because of just how over the top it's abilities are.  Some people manage it and kudos to them, but it really isn't a fun thing to fight.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

I haven't had these problems. I first shoot off the arms, then shoot the back until the mech dies. 

How do you manage to shoot them in the back? The Nechromechs I've fought turn faster than I can bullet-jump around them. Only way I've found to damage them is to sort of shoot them in the side with my Imperator Vandal, which scores damage on something like half the shots. This is Tusk Thumpers all over again. If an enemy has a weakness in the back, it really ought to have SOME delay in turning around.

[EinheriarJudith]

i just throw octavia at them. this fight is just weak point bloat. 

[Sevek7]

11 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

How do you manage to shoot them in the back? The Nechromechs I've fought turn faster than I can bullet-jump around them. Only way I've found to damage them is to sort of shoot them in the side with my Imperator Vandal, which scores damage on something like half the shots. This is Tusk Thumpers all over again. If an enemy has a weakness in the back, it really ought to have SOME delay in turning around.

I first did the fight with Nekros. It was pretty easy because the mech would get distracted by the shadows, giving me a clear shot.

Then I did it with Equinox. A little bit harder, had mixed results using sleep, but the slow from pacify & provoke worked well. 

Then I did it with Gauss. Mach rush and a quick turn gave me many shots into the back. 

Then I tried Ash. Invisibility made it far too easy! (I think Shuriken augment helped too)

I'm sure Nyx, Nova, Banshee, other casting frames will make short work of it too. 

Any frame should work fine if you drop a specter to distract it.

What frame did you use?

 

[Sevek7]

45 minutes ago, JHarlequin said:

 Certainly tried again and yeah, it can take damage when you shoot the back.  Still seems like a miracle and it's less damage than I did when I was shooting the arms.  It still goes damage shield every time, still regens the shields constantly.  I am having the usual universal problem of explosions hitting at infinite range sometimes.

 As a npc, the necromech has abilities above and beyond everything.  As a player tool, it might get okay, but it is never going to be even close to what the npc version can do.  It is only meant to be a pain in the ass to fight.  If you do not go against it with teammates you should not be able to beat it because of just how over the top it's abilities are.  Some people manage it and kudos to them, but it really isn't a fun thing to fight.

Remember that Warframe is all about preparation. If you choose the right tool for the right job, then everything becomes easy. If it's difficult, that just means you haven't found the right tool yet, keep experimenting!

[Mr.Holyroller]

ive been killing them like instantly with a rattleguts. i'm not sure what issue people are having.
even in the tutorial he died pretty quickly

Edit: After the changes they do seem to be a lot more challenging.
I'm not sure how their invulnerability/reflecting shield is working.
Sometimes melee drops the shield instantly, sometimes it stays up for over a minute.
I've also seen people randomly oneshot them somehow from time to time

[Rogunz]

One of the hotfixes made them absolutely awful to fight since they now spam their shield constantly and it reflects all damage. The only way to get rid of it is to keep shooting them so you have to sit around slowly plinking away to avoid killing yourself.

[Steel_Rook]

52 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

What frame did you use?

Inaros Prime. The Necromech seems to resist both Scarab Swarm and Dessecation. I just sat there and traded with it via my Archgun. I'll try using my control abilities on it next time - maybe some of them will stick. The Imperator Vandal makes quick work of that thing when it can do damage.

[EinheriarJudith]

7 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Inaros Prime. The Necromech seems to resist both Scarab Swarm and Dessecation. I just sat there and traded with it via my Archgun. I'll try using my control abilities on it next time - maybe some of them will stick. The Imperator Vandal makes quick work of that thing when it can do damage.

its like fighting a lich who deals lethal damage, and is immune to damage everywhere but at its weak points. id imagine explosive weapons might also do the trick like the kuva ayanga, kuva brahma.

[Steel_Rook]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

its like fighting a lich who deals lethal damage, and is immune to damage everywhere but at its weak points.

He doesn't really deal "lethal" damage, though. The Nechromechs can't really out-damage my Arcane Grace on Inaros. It's more an issue with his weak point being on his back and thus unavailable when I'm the only thing he's shooting at. I could try pulling some Infested into the fight, see if they distract him. Or I can just sit there trading with him and damaging his back through his armpits 🙂

I don't know about explosive weapons. Those typically don't hit weak points. That's why the Opticor doesn't work against Eidolons - the AoE hits the armoured bits, making even direct hits on the Synova count for 0 damage. I did try the Panthera Prime on him which has an AoE, and it didn't seem to do any damage.

[EinheriarJudith]

3 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

He doesn't really deal "lethal" damage, though. The Nechromechs can't really out-damage my Arcane Grace on Inaros. It's more an issue with his weak point being on his back and thus unavailable when I'm the only thing he's shooting at. I could try pulling some Infested into the fight, see if they distract him. Or I can just sit there trading with him and damaging his back through his armpits 🙂

I don't know about explosive weapons. Those typically don't hit weak points. That's why the Opticor doesn't work against Eidolons - the AoE hits the armoured bits, making even direct hits on the Synova count for 0 damage. I did try the Panthera Prime on him which has an AoE, and it didn't seem to do any damage.

well ive done it on octavia, khora, mirage, and nezha. he does pretty lethal damage. i wonder why mallet destroys him so well being an AOE of sorts.

[Steel_Rook]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

well ive done it on octavia, khora, mirage, and nezha. he does pretty lethal damage.

Oh, he does a lot of damage, I'm not disputing that 🙂 It's just I overdid my Inaros' survivability to the point where it kind of doesn't matter. I've seen him drop me down to 6-7K health sometimes, but that heals up pretty quickly between Arcane Guardian and Medi-Ray. Let us know how the test with the Mallet goes and whether AoE damage actually hits the mech.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Steel_Rook said:

Oh, he does a lot of damage, I'm not disputing that 🙂 It's just I overdid my Inaros' survivability to the point where it kind of doesn't matter. I've seen him drop me down to 6-7K health sometimes, but that heals up pretty quickly between Arcane Guardian and Medi-Ray. Let us know how the test with the Mallet goes and whether AoE damage actually hits the mech.

mallet for sure kills him easily. im going to test some AOE weapons.

[Sevek7]

24 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Inaros Prime. The Necromech seems to resist both Scarab Swarm and Dessecation. I just sat there and traded with it via my Archgun. I'll try using my control abilities on it next time - maybe some of them will stick. The Imperator Vandal makes quick work of that thing when it can do damage.

Oops! Yeah a tank frame is definitely not the right tool for the job. Can probably be done relatively pain free using Zenurik blast and a specter, but definitely a caster frame will be better.

[EinheriarJudith]

@Steel_Rook kuva bramma did not work. 

[TheNeonGod]

high fire rate weapons can get the job done on the necramech depends on the damage on the weapon though. I did tried Velocitus and it 1 shots the necramech's arm off.

[Prof_Blocks_007]

2 hours ago, Rogunz said:

One of the hotfixes made them absolutely awful to fight since they now spam their shield constantly and it reflects all damage. The only way to get rid of it is to keep shooting them so you have to sit around slowly plinking away to avoid killing yourself.

Yeah, the invuln + reflect shield spam took the fight from 'pretty fun' to 'rage-quit' real fast, which is a shame because I've enjoyed most of the update so far.

[kgabor]

I haven't fought this as of yet, as i was too lazy to check on the Deimos update, but have you all tried using Loki, Saryn, Octavia, maybe Ivara against it?

Basically anything with a decoy/aggro draw type ability, invisibility or a damage buff.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

There's nothing wrong with them. They want you to aim and think, for once.

[sitfesz]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

There's nothing wrong with them. They want you to aim and think, for once.

You heard it here guys, there is NOTHING wrong with barely telegraphed, non-interruptable, instant damage REFLECT shield. Like what the #*!%? Also shoot the back of a beyblade, similar great design, because there is no "show back plz" mechanic that would reward perfect dodges or reactions. You have 0,2 seconds to shoot a weakpoint after jumping through its hitbox if you're alone.