Necramechs are godawful to fight

[Smilomaniac]

You've successfully managed to combine every worst aspect of Warframe into one enemy: The Necramech.

It has invulnerability phases, it ignores AoE damage, it's a bullet sponge, it has ridiculous amounts of armor, you need to kill one limb at a time, the weakpoints are not only not obvious but hidden (on its back? Really?), it has diminishing returns on abilities, it nullifies not only some of your warframe abilities but also your operator void jumps (EXTREMELY frustrating!) and it apparently reflects damage causing repeated one-shots.

It doesn't even make sense lore-wise. If they're supposed to defeat sentients, then why are they negating void abilities?

I am sick of you circumventing abilities and equipment that we spend days farming and upgrading, because you can't balance this game. People don't WANT a balanced fight no matter what, they want to be able to overcome everything you throw at them, if not with aim skill, then by building something for the purposes of beating that content sometimes even if it means beating it easily. None of your content is so precious that people want to experience it hundreds of times, so the more expediently we can deal with your grinds, the more tolerable it is.

Additionally it seems like their drops are personal or host specific, so people are indirectly encouraged to try and solo the vault bounty, compounding the issues.

[krc473]

23 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

It has invulnerability phases, it ignores AoE damage, it's a bullet sponge, it has ridiculous amounts of armor, you need to kill one limb at a time, the weakpoints are not only not obvious but hidden (on its back? Really?)

The problem with your statement is that this only really applies to the host. My friend and I were doing it, I could kill them in a single hit as a client. He was doing barely any damage. They are bugged.

[Smilomaniac]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

The problem with your statement is that this only really applies to the host. My friend and I were doing it, I could kill them in a single hit as a client. He was doing barely any damage. They are bugged.

Yeah I've had the same experience, somehow easily oneshotting it with a melee weapon. Surely the bug would be that the client has an easy time, not that the host has a hard one.

They're obviously supposed to be a challenge with mechanics that circumvent some of our arsenal in order to artificially increase the difficulty.

[(PSN)xBlake360]

28 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

You've successfully managed to combine every worst aspect of Warframe into one enemy: The Necramech.

It has invulnerability phases, it ignores AoE damage, it's a bullet sponge, it has ridiculous amounts of armor, you need to kill one limb at a time, the weakpoints are not only not obvious but hidden (on its back? Really?), it has diminishing returns on abilities, it nullifies not only some of your warframe abilities but also your operator void jumps (EXTREMELY frustrating!) and it apparently reflects damage causing repeated one-shots.

It doesn't even make sense lore-wise. If they're supposed to defeat sentients, then why are they negating void abilities?

I am sick of you circumventing abilities and equipment that we spend days farming and upgrading, because you can't balance this game. People don't WANT a balanced fight no matter what, they want to be able to overcome everything you throw at them, if not with aim skill, then by building something for the purposes of beating that content sometimes even if it means beating it easily. None of your content is so precious that people want to experience it hundreds of times, so the more expediently we can deal with your grinds, the more tolerable it is.

Additionally it seems like their drops are personal or host specific, so people are indirectly encouraged to try and solo the vault bounty, compounding the issues.

Dont know what you're talking about, went out yesterday with my brother to clear some vaults and we defeated them in seconds. Its not a bullet sponge by any means, only downside is that Necramechs are immune to status.

[Smilomaniac]

Just now, (PS4)xBlake360 said:

Dont know what you're talking about, went out yesterday with my brother to clear some vaults and we defeated them in seconds. Its not a bullet sponge by any means, only downside is that Necramechs are immune to status.

Try going in solo.

[Fluttershy93]

2 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

Try going in solo.

Been doing them solo myself, only thing i do not find enjoyable about them is how fast they turn, the void dash lockout after the first fight for the whole session until rezoning. I highly doubt that is intentional that once you get close to a friendly one or enemy you get locked out of using void dash. 

 

But honestly if you want the most cheesy strat just use Octavia and watch em just K.O themselves into dust.

[DeMonkey]

31 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

People don't WANT a balanced fight no matter what, they want to be able to overcome everything you throw at them, if not with aim skill

But I am overcoming them with aim skill? Isn't that the purpose of a weakpoint? Also yes, I want a balanced fight, and this is as close as DE have come for awhile.

For a laugh I took the Soma Prime with a rank 12 Gauss to a second tier vault (solo) and it handled just fine. Didn't one shot them (Soma hasn't been meta in like, half a decade), but I wasn't there 10 minutes blasting a sponge to death, nor did I suffer too much.

[DrivaMain]

They turn around constantly so hitting the weakspots are extremely difficult unless I use Zenurik. Also DE again added even more status immune enemies. Might as well just remove status altogether if you really hate status that much DE.

[Smilomaniac]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

But I am overcoming them with aim skill? Isn't that the purpose of a weakpoint? Also yes, I want a balanced fight, and this is as close as DE have come for awhile.

For a laugh I took the Soma Prime with a rank 12 Gauss to a second tier vault (solo) and it handled just fine. Didn't one shot them (Soma hasn't been meta in like, half a decade), but I wasn't there 10 minutes blasting a sponge to death, nor did I suffer too much.

Don't want a balanced fight no matter what. Meaning at all costs. It's obviously not balanced in any sense of the word, it's cheap and breaks the norms of the game, making it out of place.

When you say "lul did it with mah underpowa'd soma" it's just petty bragging making out the fight to be easier than it is. At least explain exactly what you did, where you shot and how you got around shooting it in the back.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Smilomaniac said:

When you say "lul did it with mah underpowa'd soma" it's just petty bragging making out the fight to be easier than it is.

Because it is easier than people are making it out to be.

1 minute ago, Smilomaniac said:

At least explain exactly what you did

I'll do you one better, I recorded it, if you're interested?

It's literally as simple as just baiting it's charge though, nothing more.

[Smilomaniac]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Because it is easier than people are making it out to be.

I'll do you one better, I recorded it, if you're interested?

It's literally as simple as just baiting it's charge though, nothing more.

You figured out a simple strat, that doesn't mean it's easy. It's like me telling you to order something in a language you don't speak; It's super simple, you just speak the words.
So you use redline to buff the "underpowered" soma, you blow off its arms, bait the charge and shoot it in the back when it does that?

I'm not interested in the video at all, no, just tell me if I got it wrong.
And what elements are you using, since you don't have to pump 200 rounds into each part?

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

So you use redline

Forgot to use it. I'm pretty sure Gauss has some form of armour strip that I neglected as well.

Soma Prime build is below, Radiation damage was probably a good idea, Hunter Munitions not so much.

Spoiler

Fights lasted on average just under a minute each.

5 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

You figured out a simple strat, that doesn't mean it's easy.

Baiting the charge literally just requires a bit of distance. It's easy.

[Smilomaniac]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Forgot to use it. I'm pretty sure Gauss has some form of armour strip that I neglected as well.

Soma Prime build is below, Radiation damage was probably a good idea, Hunter Munitions not so much.

  Reveal hidden contents

Fights lasted on average just under a minute each.

Baiting the charge literally just requires a bit of distance. It's easy.

Radiation is a good bet. Magnetic is likely better. 

I used a Snipetron to suss out hidden weakpoints it had (before realizing it was on the back), but just going at range doesn't seem to be the single trigger. There must be more factors, like what's between you and him, or it just chains abilities in order or it's on a shared CD.

I don't understand how you're easily beating the limbs and shields though, I've brought bigger guns with less effect.

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

but just going at range doesn't seem to be the single trigger.

Without fail, every time I've created distance from a Mech it's charged me.

9 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

I don't understand how you're easily beating the limbs and shields though, I've brought bigger guns with less effect.

Lots of bullets I guess. Shield isn't that big a deal when your weapon doesn't do 10 billion damage per shot. Much easier to manage the reflect damage.

[Runescale]

SOLO fighting Necramechs (especially 2 or 3 at once) is currently the WORST experience I ever had in Warframe. How could ANYBODY of the devs think this is fun, AT ALL. Destroying their 2 arms will make them invulnerable and they will ALWAYS turn with you, so you are unable to do damage. The constant knockdown is just awful with 2-3 mechs present. Don't get me started on the constant slow. There is no mechanic to temporally stun them (which would be great since you could actually use mechanics in order to do damage = rewarding gameplay). Your best bet is that they bug out and jump up and down a small ledge. Absolute S#&$ fight when playing solo and not rewarding at all.

At least give us feedback of what is happening. I get slowed: "Oh, there is a debuff status timer in my buff list"; Necramech throws slow grenade: let him equip grenade first and let me shoot it in hand or mid-air (to stun him?!); Necramech charges: there is a small charge-up sequence or his eyes blink red or he makes a loud sound; he is invulnerable: he glows bright red... etc. this allows reaction by the player and outplay potential = fun. Right now it's complete dogS#&$.

[TronionX]

I don't understand how anyone is talking about one-shotting them, i can't deal more than 1k damage to them with a red crit from exodia contagion and that is with smite infusion buffing up my rad damage which they are apparently weak to.

[Winterfreshyy]

the necramechs are so bad i actually logged into the forums to say something. first time 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

Enemy damage reflection is an utterly horrible mechanic in every game that has ever implemented it.

[Genitive]

I think 2 things should be changed.

First, the turning speed – either reduce it, or increase the delay before necramech starts turning towards you. Currently, they lock on to the player very quickly, which makes shooting their back frustrating. Alternatively, allow us to exploit their charge attack better. For example, their shield could deactivate upon hitting a wall.

Second, the shield – it is activated far too often. If there is a way to disable it early, I don't know it, and my first instinct when encountering damage reflection, is not to shoot it. So I wait, then wait some more, then shoot for a while, then wait again because the shield reactivated. My propositions – reduce the duration, increase the cooldown before they recast it, or see my solution from the previous point. 

Finally, I fail to understand why you bothered to introduce special status proc interaction for VIP units only to make more enemies that are immune to status. 

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Runescale said:

There is no mechanic to temporally stun them (which would be great since you could actually use mechanics in order to do damage = rewarding gameplay)

But there is, I literally outline it in this thread.

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

Alternatively, allow us to exploit their charge attack better

In what way could it be exploited better? Besides correcting the irregularity of whether your bullet hits the weakpoint, it's already very easy to exploit it.

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

Second, the shield – it is activated far too often

I'm convinced that there's a trigger for them activating it that players aren't aware of. Both of the Mechs I discussed fighting earlier activated it once or twice each, that's it.

Perhaps standing too close triggers it?

[arcanehex666]

I don't know about anyone else, but my experience with the vault mission has been really, really weird.

The first time I took the mission, I used Loki with a Tiberon. I couldn't void dash, nor could I use any of Loki's abilities. But the Necramech felt super weak, as it took a few shots and died.

The second time I took in Nidus and Zhuge. And this time I couldn't void dash again, but I could use all of Nidus' abilities. Oddly enough the blasted thing was unkillable. Ignored damage and constantly kept slamming into me. Needless to say I lost. So the fight seems very buggy to me.

[Genitive]

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

In what way could it be exploited better?

I gave an example in my post. It would be nice if we could force the shield to deactivate somehow. If baiting the charge into a wall is a bad idea, then maybe something else. They throw their grenade sometimes, so maybe shooting it could force the shield down. My creativity ends here.

39 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm convinced that there's a trigger for them activating it that players aren't aware of. Both of the Mechs I discussed fighting earlier activated it once or twice each, that's it.

Perhaps standing too close triggers it?

I have no idea, honestly. Every time I fought them their shield activated often. I wouldn't be surprised if standing close triggered it, but I didn't pay enough attention to my positioning when it activated. I will see if there is a correlation the next time I fight it.

[Zi-Sui]

I can do the fights with Stropha combo efficiency build pretty well, even though I use Condition Overload there. My main problem with the fight is the instant deaths or very fast deaths my real-life focus cannot react fast enough to, since I wasn't even sure why they happened. Well after reading the forums, now I know, damage reflection. But it does feel a bit crappy, that, because I didn't see any indicator whatsoever about that stuff activating. If so, how am I supposed to predict them? And the nekramech going invulnerable, I'm still not sure what to do with that with my skillset as a player, other than use Octavia (thanks for the tip!) .

I feel the fight is enjoyable enough, as I thought it was the grenades that always got me killed, not the reflector shield. I soloed the triple isolation vault 2-3 times and failed on 3rd or 4th, died too many times during the second vault and decided to not risk going to 3rd and losing rewards. As Wisp. With Octavia or some other appropriate frame (Revenant to avoid instagibbing myself by myself xD his 2nd to protect) I could probably do better and not complain. I just hope DE doesn't remove the damage reflection mechanic altogether, because it's an innovative way for us to consider using other frames than our standard picks. If we want to solo the thing that is, doesn't matter so much what you use when you bring friends.

Sorry for the wall of text, but TLDR: Please keep the damage reflection mechanic, in at least some form, in that fight.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

I will see if there is a correlation the next time I fight it.

Let us know. After rewatching my footage it's pretty easy to make out the audio cue, the visual identifiers and the 10 second duration, all that I need to know now is the trigger. I'm hesitant to just call it a cooldown, because there seems to be a vast difference between how often it's used when I fight them versus when other people fight them, got to be some trigger.

[krc473]

8 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

Yeah I've had the same experience, somehow easily oneshotting it with a melee weapon. Surely the bug would be that the client has an easy time, not that the host has a hard one.

They're obviously supposed to be a challenge with mechanics that circumvent some of our arsenal in order to artificially increase the difficulty.

I imagine you’re correct. I really hope you’re wrong. There is nothing to gain by having them as durable as they are for a host. I have found up to three hostile mechs in the mission. That would be near impossible for the host to deal with.

• I would be happy for them to be somewhere in between the host and client for difficulty. They do seem a little on the easy side as a client.